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[Igo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCm2_lY6tQ4

 

[Baha]

Had to be done.

'It was him or us'

 

[The Lamonster]

I have trouble believing a dumber post will be written today. Nice work!

GAF posts: srs business

 

[dinazimmerman]

And nothing of value was lost.

 

[eznark]

And nothing of value was lost.

Depending on the caliber, his rounds were expensive. That is a direct cost to the taxpayer and his piss poor misuse of resources (I still cannot get over the 6-7 shots thing) should not go unnoticed.

 

[The Lamonster]

Depending on the caliber, his rounds were expensive. That is a direct cost to the taxpayer and his piss poor misuse of resources (I still cannot get over the 6-7 shots thing) should not go unnoticed.

I'm going to take this joke post and believe it's real and then insult you for it. Nice work!

 

[OptimoPeach]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL9xCWphV8s

Bravo, coppers

 

[RyanDG]

(I still cannot get over the 6-7 shots thing)

I'm confused as to why. If this guy was just using his standard side arm, I can definitely see where 6-7 shots may be necessary, especially if he wasn't entirely comfortable with the idea of shooting the animal or experienced in killing deer. Even with a lot of rifles, its generally accepted that it may take multiple shots to down the animal (to kill). Furthermore, even with a perfect shot, at least one more shot is usually required to kill the animal - as even one shot in the heart area will not instantly kill the animal most of the time.

Is it wrong that he expended that many rounds? Perhaps. But we don't know where the deer was hit, we don't know the officer's experience, and we don't know the general actions of the deer. All we have is the outrage that the neighbors are using (which for all intents and purposes is probably over exaggerated).

 

[eznark]

I'm confused as to why. If this guy was just using his standard side arm, I can definitely see where 6-7 shots may be necessary, especially if he wasn't entirely comfortable with the idea of shooting the animal or experienced in killing deer. Even with a lot of rifles, its generally accepted that it may take multiple shots to down the animal (to kill). Furthermore, even with a perfect shot, at least one more shot is usually required to kill the animal - as even one shot in the heart area will not instantly kill the animal most of the time.

Is it wrong that he expended that many rounds? Perhaps. But we don't know where the deer was hit, we don't know the officer's experience, and we don't know the general actions of the deer. All we have is the outrage that the neighbors are using (which for all intents and purposes is probably over exaggerated).

I don't care from a humane purpose, I care from a practical perspective. The fawn was cornered. Walk up to it and put it down. Shoulder blades, head. Simple. He wasn't shooting from 100 yards away. From the accounts in the article it sounds like the guy panicked, that is what I don't like.

If he is uncomfortable with the idea of killing a deer, the tasty rat of the wild, I probably wouldn't trust the guy as my partner.

 

[Mr Sandman]

I'm confused as to why. If this guy was just using his standard side arm, I can definitely see where 6-7 shots may be necessary, especially if he wasn't entirely comfortable with the idea of shooting the animal or experienced in killing deer. Even with a lot of rifles, its generally accepted that it may take multiple shots to down the animal (to kill). Furthermore, even with a perfect shot, at least one more shot is usually required to kill the animal - as even one shot in the heart area will not instantly kill the animal most of the time.

Is it wrong that he expended that many rounds? Perhaps. But we don't know where the deer was hit, we don't know the officer's experience, and we don't know the general actions of the deer. All we have is the outrage that the neighbors are using (which for all intents and purposes is probably over exaggerated).

If he was using a 9mm it very well could have taken multiple shots. 6 seems a tad overkill. I've seen a similar sized animal being shot by one and each shot just made it more "brain dead" for lack of better word and it kept hoping around until it stopped after like 4 or 5 shots to the head. I think it was a coyote or something.

As a motorcyclist I can't really feel too bad about this (the deer).

 

[Stinkles]

I don't care from a humane purpose, I care from a practical perspective. The fawn was cornered. Walk up to it and put it down. Shoulder blades, head. Simple. He wasn't shooting from 100 yards away. From the accounts in the article it sounds like the guy panicked, that is what I don't like.

If he is uncomfortable with the idea of killing a deer, the tasty rat of the wild, I probably wouldn't trust the guy as my partner.

Let's not forget the safety aspect of unloading six or seven rounds from a sidearm in a small urban back yard, with multiple spectators, for no official, practical or common sensical reason.

 

[RyanDG]

I don't care from a humane purpose, I care from a practical perspective. The fawn was cornered. Walk up to it and put it down. Shoulder blades, head. Simple. He wasn't shooting from 100 yards away. From the accounts in the article it sounds like the guy panicked, that is what I don't like.

If he is uncomfortable with the idea of killing a deer, the tasty rat of the wild, I probably wouldn't trust the guy as my partner.

At a year old, I wouldn't recommend walking right up to a cornered deer. That sounds like a recipe to get a deer hoof to your gut. Also, I think its a bit disingenious to try to downplay the deer's potential danger by saying it was just a cornered fawn. At a year old, the deer is going to already weight 150 some odd pounds and seperated (for a few months at the least) from its mother. I don't think it is a situation where walking up to the cornered, wild animal would be the best idea even if the neighbors try to claim it was just standing their shaking.

 

[Amakusa]

Oakland animal control officers were on the scene, but they were not trained to handle wildlife such as deer

...now thats just sad

 

[Stinkles]

...now thats just sad

They are only trained to corral and cage the endless stream of escaped dangerous dogs. Oakland burbs are like some post apocalyptic pitbull movie. To be fair, there is so MUCH of that, it's not surprising they can't deal with other problems.

 

[BertramCooper]

Let's not forget the safety aspect of unloading six or seven rounds from a sidearm in a small urban back yard, with multiple spectators, for no official, practical or common sensical reason.

Even if the euthanasia was botched, it was still put down for a very good reason.

 

[eznark]

At a year old, I wouldn't recommend walking right up to a cornered deer. That sounds like a recipe to get a deer hoof to your gut. Also, I think its a bit disingenious to try to downplay the deer's potential danger by saying it was just a cornered fawn. At a year old, the deer is going to already weight 150 some odd pounds and seperated (for a few months at the least) from its mother. I don't think it is a situation where walking up to the cornered, wild animal would be the best idea even if the neighbors try to claim it was just standing their shaking.

Fine, 15 yards? Is that fair? I can, with 85%-ish accuracy, hit inner ring on a deer target from 20 yards with a 40 S & W, I expect a cop to be able to do the same.

Again, I don't really think he did anything wrong, but it does seem like he either panicked or is a real shitty shot.

 

[Stinkles]

Even if the euthanasia was botched, it was still put down for a very good reason.

Really? The police department doesn't think there was a good reason. Animal Control doesn't think there was a good reason. the neighborhood doesn't think there was a good reason and the Game Department doesn't think there was a good reason. So you apparently have more information than they did.

A Deer on a freeway = bad.
A Deer on a twisty backroad = bad.
A Rabid deer ina playground = bad.
A Deer in a leafy burb at the foot of the very woodsy Oakland Zoo = natural.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Did they have deer burgers afterwards? If so, good job. If not, epic fail.

Really, who cares? If the officers evacuated everyone and made sure it was safe to kill the deer then I see no problem. What are they going to do, release it into the wild where it will die on its own anyway?

 

[BertramCooper]

Really? The police department doesn't think there was a good reason. Animal Control doesn't think there was a good reason. the neighborhood doesn't think there was a good reason and the Game Department doesn't think there was a good reason. So you apparently have more information than they did.

Going by that news story, they seem to be primarily concerned with the shoddy method that was used to put the animal down, not the fact that the animal was killed.

A Deer on a freeway = bad.
A Deer on a twisty backroad = bad.
A Rabid deer ina playground = bad.
A Deer in a leafy burb at the foot of the very woodsy Oakland Zoo = natural.

A deer running around anywhere near roads - especially in an urban or suburban area where drivers might not be used to to encountering them - is not good.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

 

[EvilMario]

In Toronto we just taser deers.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/11/24/deer-toronto-downtown634.html

Spoiler

Don't tase me, doe.

 

[JoeBoy101]

In Toronto we just taser deers.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/11/24/deer-toronto-downtown634.html

Spoiler

Don't tase me, doe.

Tasing deer, putting milk in bags. Y'all just weird.

 

[Neuromancer]

I had to get it on. He was making a move. I had to get it on!

 

[dojokun]

I wonder how everyone would react to this if deer were not considered cute.

 

[natethegreat409]

The problem is the animal control worker didn't know what to do. If he had taken charge of the situation the cop might have stood down and let him do his thing. But if you have some dumbass who says I don't know what to do. What do you think the cop is going to do. I can't believe there is an article about a deer. People need to stop crying so much over a dead deer. If that deer had hit a car and killed someone I wonder if people would think differently? Now I don't hunt and I wouldn't go out of my way to kill or hurt any animal. But I think at the time the officer thought he was doing what he should. Everyone makes a bone head plays everyonce in a while.

I dunno... Both of my brothers are cops, and they try to avoid even drawing their gun as much as possible. They try their best to avoid shooting any animals, and that includes dogs that are dangerous. They often call in animal control and they deal with the dogs. Now if you can deal with a rabid dog, but not a baby deer.... Well come on.

A deer running around anywhere near roads - especially in an urban or suburban area where drivers might not be used to to encountering them - is not good.

I live in rural country... I'm not use to kids running around the road, but hey when I drive into cities I see the people running into streets and I watch for kids. It's not hard to watch for anything that is going to run out in front of you.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Get rid of this jagoff right now.

 

[Fularu]

I blame Disney and Bambi for the current situation where people are outraged at a deer beeing killed.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Just saw a cop shoot a deer along side of the road a few months ago. The deer was hit by a car though.

 

[BertramCooper]

I live in rural country... I'm not use to kids running around the road, but hey when I drive into cities I see the people running into streets and I watch for kids. It's not hard to watch for anything that is going to run out in front of you.

People in urban areas might be used to watching out for a jaywalker or kids running into the street, but seeing an animal you rarely see on the road at night could be quite alarming.

I wonder how everyone would react to this if deer were not considered cute.

If this were an opossum, nobody would give a flying fuck. :lol

 

[FlawlessCowboy]

The Oakland police are idiots.

 

[GDJustin]

And no, it should NEVER take 6 shots to kill a deer. If it does, you are using the wrong weapon, or you have no idea what you are doing. But hey, you just go along assigning me whatever motivation you think works best for your world view. Don't actually read what I wrote.

I can't even believe I'm taking the bait but...

what experience with firearms do you have? Once again it sounds an awful lot like you're shooting your mouth off on topics you aren't informed about.

A handgun bullet is much smaller (much less mass), travels at a much slower velocity, and decelerates much more rapidly than a deer slug or rifled bullet.

Hunters buy specific rounds for hunting deer, because it takes a larger ordinance to kill a deer humanely (you want the round to do enough damage to kill it outright... not wound it).

Add in a miss or two, and add in the desire by the cop to kill the deer VERY quickly after the first bullet hit it, and 6 shots fired from a sidearm isn't too insane.

So... yeah. Clearly not the optimal weapon. But people saying "omg six shots!" remind me of news stories were the newspaper freaks out about 17 shots being fired at some suspect like it's overkill, when in truth it's the equiv. of every cop on the scene just firing twice, or something.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I don't care from a humane purpose, I care from a practical perspective. The fawn was cornered. Walk up to it and put it down. Shoulder blades, head. Simple. He wasn't shooting from 100 yards away. From the accounts in the article it sounds like the guy panicked, that is what I don't like.

If he is uncomfortable with the idea of killing a deer, the tasty rat of the wild, I probably wouldn't trust the guy as my partner.

You talk like everyone is from VT and goes hunting all the time. I guarantee you 80% of this thread doesn't know how to down a deer. I only know the shoulder blade/heart thing from watching random hunting shows on ESPN. I assume most people would think a headshot would work. Without knowing where the brain stem is, isn't there a possibility headshots would fail to do the job?

I'm assuming that deer aren't super-common in Oakland, and the cop wasn't familiar with killing animals. He probably did what he thought was best. If he made a mistake, who really cares? It's just a damn deer. Given the situation, I find it hard to hold a grudge against the guy. Cops over there have real crime to fight too. It's not like those guys don't put their asses on the line. PEACE.

EDIT: And I hate cops more than most people here. But still, I can't really fault the guy. Put in his shoes, would I do better?

 

[Kai Dracon]

If the deer had wandered into the middle of a freeway, and animal control was there, and trying to loop the deer's neck or tranq it would probably just scare it right into traffic... okay, yes, bad luck for you deer. Someone has to take it down to save human life that is in a very real and immediate danger.

But when a wild animal just wanders into a back yard, it's f**king dumb to say "OMFG IT'S AN ANIMAL! SHOOT IT MEN!"

It's not about the deer being "important". It's about the mentality it enforces in the people dealing with the deer. I'll bet you that most of the neighbors who are shocked that they just shot the deer out of hand, would by the same token not bat an eye if they saw an adult deer that had lost a battle with a semi truck on the highway. That's not hypocritical on the part of the observers - that's being aware of context.

It reminds me of the famous incident where the coyote wandered into a Quiznos' to sit in the cooler because it was too hot. When the animal was removed, the crowd was very concerned that it would just be taken off and killed rather than released outside the city. Contrary to how some people seem to think, a lot of human beings do have a sense of fair play when it comes to dealing with nature. It's just a bad idea to harm and kill things when you don't truly have to.

Hell, I know a few hunters who would probably facepalm at this incident and say what the cop did was a stupid, stupid thing. From their perspective - THE GUYS WHO SHOOT DEER AS THEIR HOBBY - the fawn would deserve to be put back where it belonged if it wasn't a threat.

... then they too would ask why ANIMAL CONTROL doesn't have a clue what to do with something as common as a deer. It's not like a fucking triceratops trundled out of the woods.

 

[Tarazet]

I'm assuming that deer aren't super-common in Oakland, and the cop wasn't familiar with killing animals. He probably did what he thought was best. If he made a mistake, who really cares? It's just a damn deer. Given the situation, I find it hard to hold a grudge against the guy. Cops over there have real crime to fight too. It's not like those guys don't put their asses on the line. PEACE.

This was in a working-class and completely concrete jungle type of neighborhood. I don't blame the cops for not knowing what to do. Anyone on that beat has bigger things to worry about. I do blame them for acting like they did know what to do and putting an innocent animal to death in an agonizing and inhumane fashion in the middle of a residential neighborhood.

 

[selig]

Kill the guy that shot the innocent animal. [/thread]

 

[EvilMario]

Let's face it; this would be justified if it was a large buck, and was charging at people.. or if it was heading toward traffic. Just unloading on a deer because of the 'what else could we do' attitude is pretty scary, when you think about position the police are in on a day to day basis.

I don't think the officers should be fired, unless they're found unfit for duty after investigation. And those calling for the death of the guy, geez.

 

[Trojita]

Not really, considering vehicle crashes involving deer continue to increase because the population is out of control.

Wrong

The reason why vehicle crashes involving deer have increased is because of something called The Edge Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_effect

The Deer's favorite habitat is on the edge of the forest where grass and shrubs are located. This is the Deer's staple food source.

At first a natural forest would be a plot of land, for this example lets say it is a rectangle. All of the Edges of the forest are located on the outside of the forest all around the rectangle. Now lets pretend you draw straight lines all throughout this forest. How many Edges are their now? A lot more right? These lines are Man built roads which are creating an Edge Effect between each section of the forest. If the Deer's main habitat then is to live at these edges next to the roads, then it is no wonder that the accidents keep happening more frequently.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Wrong

The reason why vehicle crashes involving deer have increased is because of something called The Edge Effect.

Bertram is from the same state as I am (Ohio). 20 years ago, there were 150,000 deer. Now it is estimated that there is 600,000.

http://ourohio.org/magazine/2007-2/march-april-may-2007/deerly-departed/

 

[Dude Abides]

Oakland cops eh? Too bad nobody had bribe money on hand.

Bertram is from the same state as I am (Ohio). 20 years ago, there were 150,000 deer. Now it is estimated that there is 600,000.

http://ourohio.org/magazine/2007-2/march-april-may-2007/deerly-departed/

What does Ohio's mismanagement of its deer population have to do with the deer situation in a city thousands of miles from Ohio?

 

[Trojita]

Bertram is from the same state as I am (Ohio). 20 years ago, there were 150,000 deer. Now it is estimated that there is 600,000.

http://ourohio.org/magazine/2007-2/march-april-may-2007/deerly-departed/

Oh you guys live in Ohio? That's a different beat all together.

Edge Effect + Lack of Natural Predators (Coyotes and Wolves) + Terrible Game commision + Not enough hunters = Ohio's problem.

 

[BertramCooper]

Wrong

The reason why vehicle crashes involving deer have increased is because of something called The Edge Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_effect

The Deer's favorite habitat is on the edge of the forest where grass and shrubs are located. This is the Deer's staple food source.

The deer population in my home state has QUADRUPLED in the past 20 years and you honestly think that the massive increase in deer/vehicle collisions is solely because of new roads?

That is absurd on so many levels.

What does Ohio's mismanagement of its deer population have to do with the deer situation in a city thousands of miles from Ohio?

A discussion on the rapidly increasing deer population worked its way into the thread.

And it's hardly a problem unique to Ohio. There's at least two or three states that have it worse than we do.

 

[gutter_trash]

I specifically said (twice) that the manner in which they did it was unacceptable. In principle, however, euthanizing the animal was probably the best solution.

And as it states in that article, the current deer population now is greater than it was when North America was first settled by Europeans. And you still don't think that's indicative of a serious problem?

elimination of predators is the main reason why deer populations are up.

Less wolves, less cougars = more deer

but you guys like hunting wolves and cougars so I like over-population of deer I presume

 

[BertramCooper]

elimination of predators is the main reason why deer populations are up.

Less wolves, less cougars = more deer

Yes, which largely happened several generations ago.

but you guys like hunting wolves and cougars so I like over-population of deer I presume

Come again? Who in here said they hunt wolves and cougars?

Wolves are actually making quite a comeback, so much so that they've become problematic in certain areas. They have a tendency to go after pets and young livestock.

 

[gutter_trash]

Yes, which largely happened several generations ago.


Come again? Who in here hunts wolves and cougars?

Wolves are actually making quite a comeback, so much so that they've become problematic in certain areas. They have a tendency to go after pets and young livestock.

the only problem I see is humans, humans overstepping the bounds of their natural habitat

 

[BertramCooper]

the only problem I see is humans, humans overstepping the bounds of their natural habitat

Well if you think destroying suburbia and returning land lost to urban sprawl back to nature is a viable option, then go right ahead.

If you have a realistic solution to this complex problem, by all means, share it.

 

[daw840]

LOL

I really can't believe anyone even gives a shit about this whole situation. SO FUCKING WHAT! The cops killed a deer. The fact that this thread has gone on as long as it has is god damn ridiculous.

 

[NumberTwo]

Yeah, that sound about right.

 

[Boogie]

concentrated truth

idahoblue continues to demonstrate a dedication to being a fuckwad.

Police, or hunters, who have to routinely deal with wild game know that a 9 mil is not sufficient to take down almost any wild animal, certainly not a deer. Criticizing the cop for the number of shots he took on the deer is absolutely retarded.

It may not have been the best course of action, but heckling him for the number of rounds he fired only reveals your own ignorance.

And, in general terms, I want to support kharvey16. Whether I agree with him or not (and I think I'm only about 75/25 in terms of our positions on controversial threads) he almost always tries to take the position of a reasonable, analytical person. And he is right that too many people on these boards jump to the knee-jerk, emotional reaction, and then defend that position to the death, no matter what facts are presented against them.

LOL

I really can't believe anyone even gives a shit about this whole situation. SO FUCKING WHAT! The cops killed a deer. The fact that this thread has gone on as long as it has is god damn ridiculous.

And ya, I pretty much agree with this too. This is not a thread-worthy event.

 

[CharlieDigital]

LOL

I really can't believe anyone even gives a shit about this whole situation. SO FUCKING WHAT! The cops killed a deer. The fact that this thread has gone on as long as it has is god damn ridiculous.

Out of curiosity, what if it was a dog? Make that a puppy?

 

[daw840]

Out of curiosity, what if it was a dog? Make that a puppy?

Then that would be a horrible horrible thing. A dog is a pet. Part of someones family. Completely, and totally, different than this situation. A deer is a pest. A very, very large rat is what I would equate it to.