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[kehs]

While late, it's certainly great news that Obama has come forth supporting gay marriage.



Did you confuse Megan McCain with Bristol Palin, or did I miss something? As far as I know McCain has always been supportive of gay marriage.

Subconscious coordinated anit-obama effort.

She may be a beautiful, intelligent PAWG, but I cannot stand Meghan McCain's quasi-beltway opinions


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ys-it-safe-with-gay-marriage-endorsement.html

What the fuck? You can basically hear the twists and turns she contorts into in order to produce this crap

 

[speculawyer]

http://startingpoint.blogs.cnn.com/...esident-obamas-same-sex-marriage-endorsement/

some backstory: video was posted by a friend on facebook who is currently having a...mini-meltdown over supporting Obama on every other position except this one. For example:

It'll be fascinating to watch some people deal with the cognitive dissonance over the next few months.

Well I hope they can figure it out. Look, no one is asking anyone to like gay marriage, approve gay marriage, or get gay-married. Just to let the people that want it to have it.

 

[Dude Abides]

Her argument boils down to saying:

1) Kids cannot teach their parents anything; put differently, parents cannot learn from their children.

2) Because that's how it's been for a long time, that's the way it's gotta be.

What thin, idiotic arguments. She's suggesting future generations have nothing to teach the one before it; that things need to stay the way they are because....that's the way they've been. As a parent of two daughters (ages 7 and 10), I can say I've learned so much from them; they have changed my life. I'm teaching them to challenge the way the world is, including their parents, in hopes that they will strive to better it.

Megan McCain's way of thinking is so ignorant, it made me sad to read her drivel.

Meghan McCain? I thought this was Bristol Palin. I believe Meghan McCain has always been cool on this issue.

Also, I doubt that Palin herself actually wrote that. I bet a publicist did.

 

[speculawyer]

Her argument boils down to saying:

1) Kids cannot teach their parents anything; put differently, parents cannot learn from their children.

2) Because that's how it's been for a long time, that's the way it's gotta be.

What thin, idiotic arguments. She's suggesting future generations have nothing to teach the one before it; that things need to stay the way they are because....that's the way they've been. As a parent of two daughters (ages 7 and 10), I can say I've learned so much from them; they have changed my life. I'm teaching them to challenge the way the world is, including their parents, in hopes that they will strive to better it.

Megan McCain's way of thinking is so ignorant, it made me sad to read her drivel.

That is from Bristol Palin. McCain had more of a Gaborn type complaint.

 

[GhaleonEB]

While late, it's certainly great news that Obama has come forth supporting gay marriage.

Did you confuse Megan McCain with Bristol Palin, or did I miss something? As far as I know McCain has always been supportive of gay marriage.

Sorry, I got the name wrong. I had just seen her name in something, came to this thread, and had that name in mind when I read Palin's drivel and that's what came off my fingers, even though I knew it was from Palin. Post edited. :facepalm

 

[speculawyer]

Meghan McCain? I thought this was Bristol Palin. I believe Meghan McCain has always been cool on this issue.

Also, I doubt that Palin herself actually wrote that. I bet a publicist did.

I believe Palin wrote it. I'm pretty sure a publicist would have some people read it over and point out inanity.

 

[IJoel]

Subconscious coordinated bigotry effort.

I see. Well, their positions are certainly on opposite sides of the fence. Meghan is stating Obama has not done enough, and is possibly exploiting the issue for political advantage. Palin's position is not even worth stating. She has no credibility whatsoever.

I disagree with Meghan's position though. I hope Obama's move galvanizes support for gay marriage across states.

 

[Dude Abides]

I believe Palin wrote it. I'm pretty sure a publicist would have some people read it over and point out inanity.

Conservative publicicsts would be fine with that kind of inanity. Bristol seems pretty damn stupid. That piece is too well-written stylistically (not substantively) to be hers IMO.

 

[kehs]

I see. Well, their positions are certainly on opposite sides of the fence. Meghan is stating Obama has not done enough, and is possibly exploiting the issue for political advantage. Palin's position is not even worth stating. She has no credibility whatsoever.

I disagree with Meghan's position though. I hope Obama's move galvanizes support for gay marriage across states.

Yeah my obama hate trigger got confused with my bigot trigger.

 

[Mercury Fred]

I don't know about that. Fred has made similar comments about male celebs/politicians who are against gay rights.

I probably agree with you on most things, Mercury Fred, but I must say I often find some of your language troubling. I don't want to sound like some prude but I don't think calling Palin a "cum dumpster" is acceptable. Granted, what she has said about gay marriage is quite offensive, but I see no point in attacking her on sexual levels and demeaning her.

We're buds and all, I just disagree with your methods sometimes

Hey, I'm just going to use this post to reply to everyone who took issue with my language.

1.) Bristol is, in my opinion, a sub-Paris Hilton level media parasite who's managed to spin her unwed pregnancy into some kind of baffling moral "high ground" that she feels emboldens her to judge gay people and to belittle gay couples and gay parents in particular. What we know from her appearances in the media and her goofy forays into reality TV is that she's an empty, trashy, shrill wannabe party girl. Some portion of her notoriety derives from the fact that she was impregnated by a hot Playgirl model.

2.) The term cum dumpster is not gender specific, in fact it's used fairly often in the gay community. I suppose that there is an argument to be made that the term could seem misogynistic, but I don't feel that that's the case.

3.) Bristol is a public figure and I am not. Her words carry more weight than mine do. That said, if people want to scrutinize my sex life, I'm completely fine with that and have no shame about what I've done and what I enjoy doing, sexually speaking. And I'm more than happy to own my actions vis a vis my sexual history and sex life, something Palin has shown herself unwilling and/ or unable to do.

4.) It is my feeling that once a public figure, especially one who has tried to build a persona on being a "moral" figure and/ or sets his or herself up in a position of judgment is horribly homophobic, horribly racist, etc. the gloves are off and complete and total open season is appropriate for said figures-- ie it should always be ok to make fun of Rush Limbaugh's drug abuse.

5.) I understand that some people bristle at my language at times and I'm OK with that. Stonewall was a riot. It was not pretty. And obviously this isn't Stonewall, it's a different time. But I feel that it's important not to treat vile, homophobic characters such as Bristol Palin with any decency or respect whatsoever. I completely understand if this isn't everyone's take.

6.) I'm completely thrilled about Obama's endorsement and I don't want to derail this thread any further, but it felt right to address some of the criticisms leveled here.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

This is such fucking bullshit. He shouldn't have said a damn thing and let everyone just bitch about what he really thinks until the end of time. It's impossible for him to come out of anything a winner. He doesn't say anything, he's sitting on the sidelines and supports bigotry (while repealing DADT and passing hate crimes legislation). He says everything (something he believed back in 1996), and now he's a politically motivated, pandering coward and talk is cheap.

Seriously, fuck people.

Give Romney the White House, give republicans the house and the senate, and everyone just fucking deal with what they want to do. No matter what happens in November this year, we fucking deserve it.

 

[kehs]

This is such fucking bullshit. He shouldn't have said a damn thing and let everyone just bitch about what he really thinks until the end of time. It's impossible for him to come out of anything a winner. He doesn't say anything, he's sitting on the sidelines and supports bigotry (while repealing DADT and passing hate crimes legislation). He says everything (something he believed back in 1996), and now he's a politically motivated, pandering coward and talk is cheap.

Seriously, fuck people.

Give Romney the White House, give republicans the house and the senate, and everyone just fucking deal with what they want to do. No matter what happens in November this year, we fucking deserve it.

People are gonna shit on me for saying this, but obama is already in the history books, right next to Kennedy, Washington, Hitler, and Clinton.

 

[Onion_Relish]

People are gonna shit on me for saying this, but obama is already in the history books, right next to Kennedy, Washington, Hitler, and Clinton.

What the fuck am I reading? I'm just going to abandon ship now while I still can.

 

[CrushDance]

Question!

Is it not possible for the American president to sign into law at any time he/she wants regarding...well, this? What is the difference between this and slavery and it being abolished? Why can't Obama instead of saying "it's up to the states", just sign it away?

 

[Particle Physicist]

Question!

Is it not possible for the American president to sign into law at any time he/she wants regarding...well, this? What is the difference between this and slavery and it being abolished? Why can't Obama instead of saying "it's up to the states", just sign it away?

The president can't just make and sign any law he wants. It's up to congress to create and pass laws. Then the president can chose to sign those bills into law, or veto.

 

[FyreWulff]

Question!

Is it not possible for the American president to sign into law at any time he/she wants regarding...well, this? What is the difference between this and slavery and it being abolished? Why can't Obama instead of saying "it's up to the states", just sign it away?

Wrong branch. The President is in the Executive branch. Congress has to pass that law, as part of the Legislative branch.

 

[CrushDance]

Ah, I see. So I take it congress as a whole agreed to abolish slavery then? I'm wondering because if so, why can't this be put to congress too?

 

[Evlar]

Ah, I see. So I take it congress as a whole agreed to abolish slavery then? I'm wondering because if so, why can't this be put to congress too?

Congress didn't abolish slavery unilaterally. Congress sent a constitutional amendment to the states, which ratified the amendment, which abolished slavery.

 

[B-Dex]

It just astounds me that the US still acts this way. In Canada, it took 5-6months for them to pass marriage equality... 10 years ago.

 

[CrushDance]

Congress didn't abolish slavery unilaterally. Congress sent a constitutional amendment to the states, which ratified the amendment, which abolished slavery.

I don't follow. Surely not all states wanted to legalize it?

 

[shaowebb]

It just astounds me that the US still acts this way. In Canada, it took 5-6months for them to pass marriage equality... 10 years ago.

Canada is looking better and better every day to me. It really bothers me the stuff I have to hear where I live in West Virginia. You know we got so many racists here that they put up an Obama countdown the moment he was sworn in on a sign. The kicker? ITS ON A STRIP CLUB. Yeah there are tons who simply disagreed with him politically and thats fine, but I swear most of the folks I've ran into are just two minutes away from whipping out the "black people" jokes when they talk bad about the guy. Its like whatever they repeat that they hear from various conservative media most times comes out as just really poorly restated quotes that always buckle and fail a few moments later and degrade into them talking crap on Obama for being the wrong color or for having a name they don't like for sounding "Too muslim".

I hear racist shit, and bigoted shit against gays, and bigoted shit against liberals and other religions, and people who like the wrong sports team and people who voted wrong every day. Every. Damned. Day. My area is really horrible for this garbage. I wish people here would just learn to live together and accept the fact that people can be good people and believe in different shit than you do and that people can be good people even if they are nothing like you naturally. If someone's gay thats their business not yours because your religion tells you personally not to go and be gay yourself. Folks around here tend to forget that if they were hating on someone for having a different religion it'd be wrong because their own personal belief system is in conflict with the way those other folk live their lives. How is it any less wrong to hate on gays because their personal belief system is in conflict with the way gays live their lives?

Its the same level of bigotry.

I'm glad the President came out and supported this openly. Maybe now America can try to grow up some, but frankly around here it just seems one extra excuse for folks to say racist crap against the president. Pardon my bitterness, but I've had a bad environment putting me in this mood on this stuff for awhile now. Living in a highly concentrated area for racism and intolerance towards gays and other religions has really made me bitter.

 

[kehs]

What the fuck am I reading? I'm just going to abandon ship now while I still can.

Truth.

 

[MIMIC]

Biden Apologizes to Obama for Same-Sex Marriage Comments

Vice President Joe Biden apologized to President Obama on Wednesday for getting ahead of his boss by coming out publicly in favor of same-sex marriages, sources familiar with the exchange told ABC News.

The conversation took place in the Oval Office before Obama sat down with ABC News’ Robin Roberts for an interview during which he announced support for the unions, the sources said.

Biden set into motion frenzy over Obama’s position on same-sex marriage after saying Sunday on “Meet the Press” that he was “absolutely comfortable” with the unions.

Obama told Roberts yesterday that Biden “probably got out a little bit over his skis, but out of generosity of spirit.”

“I think Joe is an extremely generous loving person. And I think he was responding honestly in terms of how he felt,” Obama said.

“Would I have preferred to have done this in my own way? In my own terms without there being a lot of notice to everybody that this is where we were going? Sure,” Obama said. “But all’s well that ends well.”

Biden’s comments Sunday were impromptu and not designed to nudge the president forward, sources familiar with his thinking said. The vice president has expressed regret for stepping on the president’s plan to announce his shift in views later this month.

“The President has been the leader on this issue from day one,” said Biden spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff, “and the Vice President never intended to distract from that.”

The apology was first reported by the New York Times.

ABC News

 

[speculawyer]

What the fuck am I reading? I'm just going to abandon ship now while I still can.

I'm pretty sure he meant that in a complementary way.


Right?

 

[CrushDance]

I honestly find his stance on this annoying. But moreso that so many blacks and latinos are against it. What if mixed marriages were still illegal, where would he be? Obama speaks well, but that's all.

 

[Volimar]

From Twitter:

Zelda Williams ‏ @zeldawilliams

Dear Bristol Palin, protect the bible rules of marriage, just also acknowledge your child would be exempt from heaven for his unwed parents.

Zelda Williams ‏ @zeldawilliams

Deuteronomy 23:2. Not everything written in the book is fair Bristol. Equality however, is. #MarriageForAll

 

[Neo C.]

<3 Zelda.

 

[Clevinger]

First poll about Obama's gay marriage move:

"Overall, 51% approve of Obama's new position on same-sex marriage, compared with 45% who disapprove. Nearly 13% say his shift in position will make them more likely to vote for him, while 26% say it will make them less likely, suggesting that more supporters of likely GOP nominee Mitt Romney feel more strongly about this issue than do base supporters of Obama."

 

[Volimar]

First poll about Obama's gay marriage move:

"Overall, 51% approve of Obama's new position on same-sex marriage, compared with 45% who disapprove. Nearly 13% say his shift in position will make them more likely to vote for him, while 26% say it will make them less likely, suggesting that more supporters of likely GOP nominee Mitt Romney feel more strongly about this issue than do base supporters of Obama."

I have to assume that the 26% that are less likely to vote for Obama were already like 90% likely not to vote for him...

 

[Pollux]

From Twitter:

Not that I disagree with the sentiment Zelda's trying to convey, but trying to apply Old Testament law to a Christian makes her look ignorant.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Not that I disagree with the sentiment Zelda's trying to convey, but trying to apply Old Testament law to a Christian makes her look ignorant.

A lot of Christians try to apply Old Testament law to others, so go figure.

 

[Volimar]

Not that I disagree with the sentiment Zelda's trying to convey, but trying to apply Old Testament law to a Christian makes her look ignorant.

Why? They're using old testament law to villify homosexuals.

 

[Pollux]

A lot of Christians try to apply Old Testament law to others, so go figure.

Why? They're using old testament law to villify homosexuals.

And it's stupid when Christians do the same thing. I should have put that in my post.

 

[Volimar]

And it's stupid when Christians do the same thing. I should have put that in my post.

Someone ought to remind them of Matthew 26:52.

 

[Clevinger]

I have to assume that the 26% that are less likely to vote for Obama were already like 90% likely not to vote for him...

How come? They already had the "won't change my vote either way (for or against)" option. Why lie on an anonymous phone interview?

 

[Volimar]

How come? They already had the "won't change my vote either way (for or against)" option. Why lie on an anonymous phone interview?

Well if I wanted to make it look like he made a bad move, I would be inclined to lie, especially since it was an anonymous phone interview....

<shrug>


Just my feeling.

 

[Pollux]

Someone ought to remind them of Matthew 26:52.

I also think Matthew 22:37-40 is applicable:

37 Jesus replied: &#8220;&#8216;Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.&#8217;[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: &#8216;Love your neighbor as yourself.&#8217;[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.&#8221;

 

[John Dunbar]

Not that I disagree with the sentiment Zelda's trying to convey, but trying to apply Old Testament law to a Christian makes her look ignorant.

but there is Matthew 5:17-20:

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

does that not mean anything Jesus doesn't explicitly negate still stands from the Old Testament?

 

[PhoenixDark]

but there is Matthew 5:17-20:



does that not mean anything Jesus doesn't explicitly negate still stands from the Old Testament?

The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law. Whereas before Jews had to follow the Law in order to be saved, Jew and Gentile are now saved through the Cross, making the Law obsolete; the Law was never given to the Gentiles.

*takes off sunday school hat*

 

[John Dunbar]

i guess i've missed the part when heaven and earth disappeared. that jesus and his parables, am i right?

 

[red13th]

I have to post it, I'm sorry. The facial contortions you make are worth it.



http://www.patheos.com/blogs/bristolpalin/

Gotta admit, the bolded is pretty funny.

What the fuck, I hadn't seen this. She's incredibly stupid.

 

[dojokun]

Pssssh. All of you would sleep with Bristol Palin and you know it.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Not that I disagree with the sentiment Zelda's trying to convey, but trying to apply Old Testament law to a Christian makes her look ignorant.

Bristol is basically using the old testament to vilify gay marriage. Zelda is not being ignorant here. But I find it funny that you are calling Zelda ignorant over this.

 

[kehs]

Full transcript of the interview if anyone hasn't read it. Why can't I find the video of the full interview?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tran...t-obama/story?id=16316043&page=7#.T62uz-tYssc

ROBIN ROBERTS: I-- I know you were saying-- and are saying about it being on the local level and the state level. But as president of the United States and this is a game changer for many people, to hear the president of the United States for the first time say that personally he has no objection to same-sex marriage. Are there some actions that you can take as president? Can you ask your Justice Department to join in the litigation in fighting states that are banning same-sex marriage?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I-- you know, my Justice Department has already-- said that it is not gonna defend-- the Defense Against Marriage Act. That we consider that a violation of equal protection clause. And I agree with them on that. You know? I helped to prompt that-- that move on the part of the Justice Department.

Part of the reason that I thought it was important-- to speak to this issue was the fact that-- you know, I've got an opponent on-- on the other side in the upcoming presidential election, who wants to-- re-federalize the issue and-- institute a constitutional amendment-- that would prohibit gay marriage. And, you know, I think it is a mistake to-- try to make what has traditionally been a state issue into a national issue.

I think that-- you know, the winds of change are happening. They're not blowin'-- with the same force in every state. But I think that what you're gonna see is-- is-- is states-- coming to-- the realization that if-- if a soldier can fight for us, if a police officer can protect our neighborhoods-- if a fire fighter is expected to go into a burning building-- to save our possessions or our kids. The notion that after they were done with that, that we'd say to them, "Oh but by the way, we're gonna treat you differently. That you may not be able to-- enjoy-- the-- the ability of-- of passing on-- what you have to your loved one, if you-- if you die. The notion that somehow if-- if you get sick, your loved one might have trouble visiting you in a hospital."

You know, I think that as more and more folks think about it, they're gonna say, you know, "That's not who we are." And-- and-- as I said, I want to-- I want to emphasize-- that-- I've got a lot of friends-- on the other side of this issue. You know, I'm sure they'll be callin' me up and-- and I respect them. And I understand their perspective, in part, because-- their impulse is the right one. Which is they want to-- they want to preserve and strengthen families.

And I think they're concerned about-- won't you see families breaking down. It's just that-- maybe they haven't had the experience that I have had in seeing same-sex couples, who are as committed, as monogamous, as responsible-- as loving of-- of-- of a group of parents as-- any-- heterose-- sexual couple that I know. And in some cases, more so.

 

[Banana Kid]

Pssssh. All of you would sleep with Bristol Palin and you know it.

Well, yeah, but that's not exactly pertinent to the topic at hand.

She's still wrong!

 

[thezerofire]

The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law. Whereas before Jews had to follow the Law in order to be saved, Jew and Gentile are now saved through the Cross, making the Law obsolete; the Law was never given to the Gentiles.

*takes off sunday school hat*

seems like something evangelicals might remember now and again

 

[Arment]

I honestly find his stance on this annoying. But moreso that so many blacks and latinos are against it. What if mixed marriages were still illegal, where would he be? Obama speaks well, but that's all.

First bolded: Why?

Second bolded: What does this even mean given the context of what you just wrote?

 

[JCX]

Ugh, already seeing the social media updates of my religious family members. Not at all excited to go to church Sunday. I'm almost primed to just walk out mid service is they try to start that mess.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Ugh, already seeing the social media updates of my religious family members. Not at all excited to go to church Sunday. I'm almost primed to just walk out mid service is they try to start that mess.

Churches are so fucking political. I'venever stepped foot in one, but everything I have heard suggests that christians don't understand that separation of church and state means that religion doesn't interfere in matters of government just as much as it means that government doesn't interfere in matters of religion.

No synagogue I've been in has ever touched anything remotely political.

 

[IrrelevantNotch]

That is from Bristol Palin. McCain had more of a Gaborn type complaint.

Is it really that hard to read Meghan's OP? She wants federal legislation making gay marriage legal in all 50 states. Gaborn is... well, shit do I really need to explain Gaborn's beliefs?