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Official 2007 NBA Finals Thread - Damon Jones is in the Finals? Dear God No!

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levious said:
Spurs are still much more exciting than a 90 percent pick and roll offense (conservative estimate).
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just asking, because it is good basketball..
 
Blackace said:
I am going to ask you a question.. and answer honestly.. before the Spurs were good. Was it fun to watch the Utah Jazz? With Malone and Stockton..
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**** yeah!!!

I hated Malone with all my guts, but that team played amazing basketball. Although the Spurs were already good then. :D
 
The NBA hasn't "imprinted" crap. People like what they like. If anything, the NBA would want to "imprint" that half-court, defense-oriented teams are the most exciting thing in sports today since that's what most of the NBA's most successful teams are, the champions in particular, but clearly people aren't really buying into it. It's fine, if fans of these teams want to play the whole "no one respects us, we're not boring, we're brilliant!"-card like the Patriots do every year, be my guest, but don't pawn it off as some sort of conspiracy rather than just clear preference.
 
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
**** yeah!!!

I hated Malone with all my guts, but that team played amazing basketball.
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I love basketball, I coach basketball.. and run a pick and roll offense.. but not every person can appreciate a finely timed offense that runs 3 plays all the time.. the Spurs are not a 3 play team but aren't far from it.. they do everything pretty much perfect they don't fly by the seat of their pants.. but I think that is what a lot of fans like.. seeing things you could never plan and things that just happen. Jordan, Magic and Bird were masters of that and people are still searching for the feeling again.. the Spurs don't have a player like that so people view them as boring..
 
Um, the marketing is right there. If you don't see the idea the NBA is trying to promote, then I don't know what you're looking at.

I'm not saying watching teams like the Suns is bad, because they're a very entertaining team, but to relegate the best of the best of team basketball because it doesn't have enough flare or star power seems ridiculous to me.

I'm not talking about conspiracies or anything like it, it's my honest opinion on the whole situation. In the end I only care about watching my team lift the trophy, all I was doing was answering to someone's post.

Blackace, I understand that. I know many people probably feel the same way about watching the Spurs as I do about watching a one man team like the Lakers, yet they have the most fans around the world.

The problem is the NBA doesn't even try to rescue the basic values of the sport. They have shunned it completely in favor of pleasing the retarded bling bling generation or whatever you want to call it.
 
Blackace said:
do they have that in the NBA too? I know baseball has the 10-5 rule
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Yeah, I just looked:

(b) A Player Contract entered into by a player who has eight (8) or more Years of Service in the NBA and who has rendered four (4) or more Years of Service for the Team entering into such Contract may contain a prohibition or limitation of such Team’s right to trade such Contract to another NBA Team.
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http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-XXIV.php

And I don't think it's what the NBA has "imprinted", but more of what our current culture (ESPN, etc.) has "imprinted". The NBA is just taking advantage of what "we" want to see more of. And as much as I hate Karl Malone, Stockton to Malone was a pretty thing to watch, even if it's not as flashy as a reverse-jam.
 
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
Um, the marketing is right there. If you don't see the idea the NBA is trying to promote, then I don't know what you're looking at.

I'm not saying watching teams like the Suns is bad, because they're a very entertaining team, but to relegate the best of the best of team basketball because it doesn't have enough flare or star power seems ridiculous to me.

I'm not talking about conspiracies or anything like it, it's my honest opinion on the whole situation. In the end I only care about watching my team lift the trophy, all I was doing was answering to someone's post.
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But the difference is that the NBA isn't trying to force people to like one brand over the other, but rather recognizing what people prefer and trying to push the league by showing people that's what it offers. Ever since the disastrous Knicks-Heat types of series when the NBA was looking like it was going to adopt the entertainment equivalent of the neutral-zone trap style of play that worked so many wonders for the NHL, Stern has been recognizing that this is not what people want. For me personally, it's the right approach, and it certainly is what most fans want. Now you can go too far in the offensive direction, certainly, but that's much less a concern in basketball than, say, baseball and we certainly haven't gone anywhere near going too far in this direction yet (see: The Finals).
 
I just want more natioanlly televised Rockets games dammit. Lakers/Cavs/Heat get too much love!

But again, Rockets basketball wasn't too fun to watch last year.

I think traditional fans would appreciate the current NBA more if the reffing wasn't so piss poor. What would it take to fix that?
 
The Chosen One said:
Five Simple Ways to Fix the NBA

1). Any team who has 4 consecutive years with a regular season record under .400 gets their NBA franchise rights revoked.

2). Any team who can't manage at least 20 wins in a single season gets relegated to the NBDL. If they can't win the NBDL championship the next year, then they didn't deserve to be in the NBA in the first place.

3). In the playoffs, go back to 5 game series for the first round and re-seed after every round.

4). Get rid of touch fouls, so the game flows better. Too many games get bogged down due to endless trips to the foul line.

5). Bring the NBA back on NBC and have TNT do *all* the cable broadcasts. ESPN should stick to televising high school cheerleading.
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1 and 2 would be HILARIOUS. Half of the fun of soccer is seeing what teams get demoted at the end of the season.

Also, I think they should get rid of zone defense. Nellie wanted it to use against Shaq. After Shaq retires, get rid of zone and increase scoring.
 
woodchuck said:
Also, I think they should get rid of zone defense. Nellie wanted it to use against Shaq. After Shaq retires, get rid of zone and increase scoring.
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I wouldn't be that opposed to the zone if they would strictly enforce the "3 seconds" rule.
 
woodchuck said:
1 and 2 would be HILARIOUS. Half of the fun of soccer is seeing what teams get demoted at the end of the season.

Also, I think they should get rid of zone defense. Nellie wanted it to use against Shaq. After Shaq retires, get rid of zone and increase scoring.
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Yes, and then we could promote the top two NBDL teams. Or Master P's team.

praptor.jpg


The dream lives on.
 
jordan0386 said:
I dont see him getting moved though...lakers will make 3 trades imo

Odom for jermaine

Bynum for somebody

Farmer and Evans for somebody

They could take Utah's spot next season...but I still dont see them getting out the 1st round

If the top teams out east all headed into the playoffs healthy, I dunno if Kobe even gets out the first round there

MIL, CLE, MIA, DET, WAS, CHI...He would have to get through those 6 to get to a finals...It still isnt any easier...but he probably would save the East(viewership wise)
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I am a laker fan and I have to admit he is gone. The last update on his website pretty much confirms it.
 
Tamanon said:
Who doesn't want the Celtics to be relegated and replaced by the And-1 team?:P
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This thread could use more of The Professor vs. Skip To My Lou.

Also I was able with the RealGM Trade Checker to work 2-3 trades that'd work to send Kobe to NY. I doubt it'll happen (read: I DON'T want a few of them to happen) but I don't think Kobe will go anyway.

EDIT: rumors are Isiah's looking ....

NY Daily News said:
The ugly ending to Rasheed Wallace's season could be the start of something encouraging for the Knicks.

Isiah Thomas is in the market for a rugged power forward to play alongside Eddy Curry, and Thomas may look to revisit acquiring Wallace, the volatile Pistons veteran who fouled out and was ejected in the fourth quarter of Detroit's season-ending loss in Cleveland in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals. There already is talk of the Pistons breaking up their team after losing four straight games to LeBron James and the Cavaliers. Wallace, who is signed through the 2009 season, is the most logical choice to be moved.

When Thomas first assumed control of the Knicks, he twice tried to trade for Wallace, who instead landed in Atlanta and then Detroit. Thomas never got over losing Wallace to his former teammate, Pistons GM Joe Dumars, and has told associates that Wallace would have made the Knicks a perennial playoff team.

Thomas has his sights set on Jermaine O'Neal, Kevin Garnett and Pau Gasol, but Wallace is a more realistic option. It is unclear if Dumars is prepared to trade Wallace or if he has interest in any of the Knicks' players. Another factor could be the influence of Garden chairman James Dolan, who once swore off bringing in players he felt would embarrass the franchise.

Wallace, 32, is one of the league's top power forwards but has a history of undermining himself and his team with his abrasive antics. On Saturday, Wallace was called for three fouls in a span of 39 seconds, fouling out of the game. He immediately lost control of his emotions, was thrown out and began screaming profanities at referees and Cavs players. Because Wallace had accrued seven technical fouls in the playoffs he would have been suspended had there been a Game 7.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...06-05_knicks_could_feel_need_for_rasheed.html
 
jobber said:
Stan Van Gundy is with the Kings.
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I find it ironic that the Maloofs - of all owners in the league - want a half-court, defensive oriented basketball team.
 
reilo said:
I find it ironic that the Maloofs - of all owners in the league - want a half-court, defensive oriented basketball team.
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Yeah, but how many years did they try to run-and-gun it to the Finals? I know that one year (2003?) they got close but CWebb got hurt. Maybe they just realize it takes playing some defense to go all the way.
 
Grifter said:
Would be a good time to promote Laimbeer from the WNBA.
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I was hoping that would be who the Magic hired before this fiasco. I'm a Gator fan/former student and I think he is a scumbag for what he did.
 
tralfazz said:
I was hoping that would be who the Magic hired before this fiasco. I'm a Gator fan/former student and I think he is a scumbag for what he did.
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Oh no, I'll never look at you the same again.. :(
 
tralfazz said:
Why, because I'm a Gator fan or that Donovan is a scumbag. Surely it can't be the latter.:)
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You're a Gator! We can certainly agree that Donovan is most definitely a scumbag.
 
Meier said:
You're a Gator! We can certainly agree that Donovan is most definitely a scumbag.
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I'd hope that you'd put the differences aside and embrace the fact that you have a fellow Magic fan on the boards. As painful and emasculating as that is.
 
tralfazz said:
I was hoping that would be who the Magic hired before this fiasco. I'm a Gator fan/former student and I think he is a scumbag for what he did.
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You'll love him again, he did just bring you 2 trophies, but yeah, can't look at him quite the same way from here on out.
 
My view on helping fix the Lakers that I have been hearing works best:

-Sign and trade Walton for Artest

-Odom, Kwame and Sasha for Tinsley and Jermaine O'neal

Starting lineup would be:

Tinsley, Kobe, Artest, O'neal, Mihm

Starting lineup has a good balance of a true PG, Scoring with Kobe and O'neal, post presence with O'neal and mihm(?)... defense on the perimeter with Kobe and Artest

Phil can keep Artest in check (Rodman) and the move to L.A. would benefit him....

Backup:
Farmer, Bynum, Evans, Radmonovic, Touriof..... Cook and the rest as further backup...
 
The Chosen One said:
Five Simple Ways to Fix the NBA

3). In the playoffs, go back to 5 game series for the first round and re-seed after every round.

4). Get rid of touch fouls, so the game flows better. Too many games get bogged down due to endless trips to the foul line.
Click to expand...

These both sound great to me.

BatiGOOOOOOL said:
I know many people probably feel the same way about watching the Spurs as I do about watching a one man team like the Lakers, yet they have the most fans around the world.
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The average Laker fan hates this team's structure. Only people like Konex love it being run around one guy.

Tamanon said:
Who doesn't want the Celtics to be relegated and replaced by the And-1 team?:P
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Bill Simmons and his dad? (He's not dead yet, right?)
 
Kai said:
My view on helping fix the Lakers that I have been hearing works best:

-Sign and trade Walton for Artest

-Odom, Kwame and Sasha for Tinsley and Jermaine O'neal

Starting lineup would be:

Tinsley, Kobe, Artest, O'neal, Mihm

Starting lineup has a good balance of a true PG, Scoring with Kobe and O'neal, post presence with O'neal and mihm(?)... defense on the perimeter with Kobe and Artest

Phil can keep Artest in check (Rodman) and the move to L.A. would benefit him....

Backup:
Farmer, Bynum, Evans, Radmonovic, Touriof..... Cook and the rest as further backup...
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not bad I guess but I'd punch my GM in the balls if he tried to do a straight up trade and got only Walton for Artest. If he didn't get at least a first round pick thrown in there, I'd be enraged.
 
Kai said:
My view on helping fix the Lakers that I have been hearing works best:

-Sign and trade Walton for Artest
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Spoke to Kings fans on their board at RealGM, they aren't thrilled about that.

-Odom, Kwame and Sasha for Tinsley and Jermaine O'neal

Starting lineup would be:

Tinsley, Kobe, Artest, O'neal, Mihm

Starting lineup has a good balance of a true PG, Scoring with Kobe and O'neal, post presence with O'neal and mihm(?)... defense on the perimeter with Kobe and Artest
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DOES NOT COMPUTE.
 
New Simmons article on Lebron:

I did some digging after the game and found that Hondo made 13 straight All-Star teams, four All-NBA first teams and seven second teams; he played for eight title teams and won the 1974 Finals MVP, and he earned one of 11 spots on the NBA's 35th-anniversary team, in 1980. To this day, he ranks 10th in points, eighth in minutes and seventh in playoff points. By any measure, he remains one of the 20 best players ever. But if you asked 100 diehard NBA fans under 30 to name their top 20, how many would name Havlicek? Three? Five?

Which begs the question: Does greatness have a shelf life?

This issue gained steam for me after LeBron's "48 Special"last week.

Clearly, something monumental had happened: Not only did Marv Albert bless the performance as one of the greatest in playoff history, but it felt like a tipping point for LeBron's career, the night he fully tapped into his considerable gifts and lifted to another level. When talking heads, columnists, bloggers and fans raced to put the night into perspective, for once all the hyperbole seemed justified. More than a few people played the "MJ was great, but he never had a game like that!" card, as if Jordan's remarkable career needed to be demeaned for everyone to fully respect what LeBron had accomplished. I even wrote online that Jordan never physically overpowered an opponent the way LeBron ramshackled the Pistons and compared him to Bo Jackson and the way he wreaked havoc in his prime.

By Saturday, after everyone had calmed down, I found myself recalling some of Jordan's killer moments -- how he coldly destroyed Clyde Drexler in the 1992 Finals, how he prevailed against the rugby tactics of Pat Riley's Knicks, how he stole Game 7 against the 1998 Pacers by repeatedly getting to the line (like a running back moving the chains), how he ended his Chicago career with the incredible layup-steal-jumper sequence in Utah -- and regretting that, like nearly everyone else, I had fallen into the "Let's degrade the old guy to coronate the new guy!" trap.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070605&sportCat=nba
 
levious said:
Spurs are still much more exciting than a 90 percent pick and roll offense (conservative estimate).
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I would never call the Spurs an exciting team, but they are good. Personally I can watch any team that is not horrible. During this very long run of the Spurs, they have played great basketball at all times except the finals. When they reach the Finals they have been absolutely dreadful to watch. Don't know why that is, maybe they take the Least for granted, but they have looked like shit in the finals. Shitty basketball is tough for anyone to watch (except JVG, he loves it!).

I am not the average NBA fan though. I stuck through the NBA through thick (2000-2002) and thin (91-93, 96-99) while most NBA fans just tuned in to see Magic, Bird, Pippen, and then Shaq and Kobe. I think it is a real stretch to think that marketing is what makes the casual fan appreciate what they appreciate. You can't make people like something. You either give them a product they like or you don't. Marketing is to make them aware of it, not brainwash them (though I will admit it worked with Jordan).
 
I am personally offended by the "how he prevailed against the rugby tactics of Pat Riley's Knicks" line. That was good hard playoff basketball, dammit. Jordan was the enemy and had the refs on his side.

Also LeBron is nowhere near Jordan-level status yet. He did take one step though.
 
The Frankman said:
I am personally offended by the "how he prevailed against the rugby tactics of Pat Riley's Knicks" line. That was good hard playoff basketball, dammit. Jordan was the enemy and had the refs on his side.

Also LeBron is nowhere near Jordan-level status yet. He did take one step though.
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But just like making a movie, you don't stop at the screenplay and call it a movie. LeBron has a long, long, long way to go. In fact, he needs to start running and stop walking.
 
Exactly, but the NBA is trying to ram him down our throats. Even Kobe took awhile; there was a natural progression. You remember the LA playoff game in 2000 (or 2001) where Shaq fouled out and Kobe took over in overtime? You could see Kobe grow then ... now it's lkike the NBA is on a mission to push BronBron to MJ status. he even is starting to get the refs on his side like Jordan did already.

Anyone watching Minny vs. Phoenix tonight in the WNBA?? FUN-DA-MENTAL!!!!!!
 
The Frankman said:
Exactly, but the NBA is trying to ram him down our throats. Even Kobe took awhile; there was a natural progression. You remember the LA playoff game in 2000 (or 2001) where Shaq fouled out and Kobe took over in overtime? You could see Kobe grow then ... now it's lkike the NBA is on a mission to push BronBron to MJ status. he even is starting to get the refs on his side like Jordan did already.
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They're not just doing with LeBron now... they did it with Wade last year. They have to. AI is gone from the East. Shaq is about to retire in a few years. Lebron and DWade will be the only thing left unless the East improves ASAP.

It's sad because the east does have some very talented young players, but all of them are being pushed to the side for the Lebron and Wade show.
 
I don't think Lebron comes close to Kobe. As awesome as that Game 5 was with Lebron... does anyone here even see Kobe making a big deal about it? Kobe could do that and nobody would even be talking about it a week later, but Lebron does it and sportswriters start giving him nicknames and stuff.

I just see more Jordan in Kobe than in Lebron. Kobe has that attitude where he'll eat your kids if it means winning a game, with the understanding that once that buzzer goes he'll be as nice as possible again. Jordan had that on/off switch. Lebron still doesn't have it yet. Will he in the future? Probably... but not yet.

I like the Lebron to Magic comparisons a LOT more than Lebron to Jordan.
 
whytemyke said:
I like the Lebron to Magic comparisons a LOT more than Lebron to Jordan.
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Yeah, the latter is quite possibly one of the shallowest yet incredibly pervasive observations in the Association for some time.

When LeBron ball hogs on a team that has superstars roughly equivalent to BJ Armstrong or Luc Longley then we can talk.
 
Karakand said:
Yeah, the latter is quite possibly one of the shallowest yet incredibly pervasive observations in the Association for quite some time.

When LeBron ball hogs on a team that has superstars roughly equivalent to BJ Armstrong or Luc Longley then we can talk.
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Horace Grant was pretty good... no Briam Williams/ Bison Dele, but still. I wonder if the Pistons now put a "no boating in France" clause in all their contracts...



I got one of Horace's cards in like every pack of cards I bought. I think that Fleer and Tops made an uncanny amount of Horace Grant cards for like 3 years straight in the early 90's before they realized that nobody really liked him :lol
 
whytemyke said:
I don't think Lebron comes close to Kobe. As awesome as that Game 5 was with Lebron... does anyone here even see Kobe making a big deal about it? Kobe could do that and nobody would even be talking about it a week later, but Lebron does it and sportswriters start giving him nicknames and stuff.

I just see more Jordan in Kobe than in Lebron. Kobe has that attitude where he'll eat your kids if it means winning a game, with the understanding that once that buzzer goes he'll be as nice as possible again. Jordan had that on/off switch. Lebron still doesn't have it yet. Will he in the future? Probably... but not yet.

I like the Lebron to Magic comparisons a LOT more than Lebron to Jordan.
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Yeah, I see Lebron as more Magic-like as well, but I disagree about your Kobe assessment. He was still a part of the Shaq duo when he won those championships. If Kobe took the (present) Lakers into the Western Conference and pulled a Game 5 performance like Lebron just did, the media would be hailing him just the same.
 
teruterubozu said:
Yeah, I see Lebron as more Magic-like as well, but I disagree about your Kobe assessment. He was still a part of the Shaq duo when he won those championships. If Kobe took the (present) Lakers into the Western Conference and pulled a Game 5 performance like Lebron just did, the media would be hailing him just the same.
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Well if Kobe had the chance to play against the same teams Lebron did, I'm pretty sure Kobe could AT LEAST get into the conference finals. You put Lebron and his Cavs in the West, and i'm pretty sure the farthest they would have gotten is the 2nd round.. maybe not even into it.
 
whytemyke said:
I don't think Lebron comes close to Kobe. As awesome as that Game 5 was with Lebron... does anyone here even see Kobe making a big deal about it? Kobe could do that and nobody would even be talking about it a week later, but Lebron does it and sportswriters start giving him nicknames and stuff.
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the TRUTH.

Bryant scored 50+ points for all those games (was it 4 or 5? can't remember now) and James does this once and he gets all this praise for it.

I don't know if anyone's been watching skip on ESPN lately, but I actually with a lot of his assessments about James and how everyone's sucking him off too fast.
those two brothers said they'd take James ahead of Jordan by their fourth year :lol they kept asking skiP "DID JORDAN LEAD HIS TEAM TO THE FINALS BY HIS FOURTH YEAR??" and skip was pretty much saying "NO BUT THAT DOESN'T ****ING MATTER YOU DUMBASSES"
 
teruterubozu said:
Yeah, I see Lebron as more Magic-like as well, but I disagree about your Kobe assessment. He was still a part of the Shaq duo when he won those championships. If Kobe took the (present) Lakers into the Western Conference and pulled a Game 5 performance like Lebron just did, the media would be hailing him just the same.
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How long did the media talk about it when Kobe went like a week straight scoring 50 point games?
 
whytemyke said:
How long did the media talk about it when Kobe went like a week straight scoring 50 point games?
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About as long as Elton Brand's string of double-doubles - yeah i know what you're saying, but legends are made in the playoffs.
 
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