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Official 2007 NBA Playoffs Thread - In Memory of Agent Zero

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Mashing said:
My team in the Rockets, do you might want to spew that venom elsewhere.

Hey, don't fault Jazz players because they play real defense. They're going to get called for fouls, because they're making a real attempt to keep the other team from scoring. They're not into this BS run it up the floor, chuck a three, and just hope the other team misses on their end. It's the way the game is supposed to be played.

Run, chuck, watch, run, chuck, watch, run, chuck, flop, run, chuck, watch, run, chuck, flop...

EDIT: Any word on whether or not Baron is going to get suspended a game?
 
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
Why aren't they looking at Amare's dangerous butt shove on Finley? Much more dangerous

Didn't see the play, but just reading this made me LOL since it sounds so ridiculous on 'paper.' :lol
 
Meier said:
Didn't see the play, but just reading this made me LOL since it sounds so ridiculous on 'paper.' :lol

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous that he's calling this "butt shove" dangerous. I think he might be the only one that feels this way...
 
In explaining what happened, Bowen said: "He was crowding me, and in this game you're taught to get people off of you. If someone is taking up your space, you have nothing to do. But with all the stuff that is going on with [me], I'm sure that will end up on YouTube."

I don't know if that was posted earlier but I didn't realize he mentioned youtube :lol
 
Hope the refs call a clean/tight game, because if they don't the Suns are screwed. In this regard, it's not even so much about "OMG THE REFS ARE CHEATING [insert preferred team here]" it's just that if the refs allow chippy, dirty, whatever you want to call it, but "loose" play, the Suns cannot win. Even the awful Lakers beat the Suns when the game was called loosely, so it's not exactly an accomplishment. Sure the Suns, like any other team, will occasionally lose their tempers (see: Raja Bell) or commit questionable fouls but beyond this they don't know how to actually use this to help them win the game, while the Spurs have several players who have made careers out of it. So it's kind of anti-climactic, but it really mostly comes down to how the game will be called.
 
AstroLad said:
Hope the refs call a clean/tight game, because if they don't the Suns are screwed. In this regard, it's not even so much about "OMG THE REFS ARE CHEATING [insert preferred team here]" it's just that if the refs allow chippy, dirty, whatever you want to call it, but "loose" play, the Suns cannot win. Even the awful Lakers beat the Suns when the game was called loosely, so it's not exactly an accomplishment. Sure the Suns, like any other team, will occasionally lose their tempers (see: Raja Bell) or commit questionable fouls but beyond this they don't know how to actually use this to help them win the game, while the Spurs have several players who have made careers out of it. So it's kind of anti-climactic, but it really mostly comes down to how the game will be called.

Yeah, this happens a lot. Finesse teams struggle in the playoffs because refs tend to let players bump a bit more (especially inside). However, they also tend to have a game or two each series where they just call every single bit of contact. With Phoenix down, however, I think that the refs tonight will most likely call a tighter game. Also, they need to kill the chippiness that's going on in that series. Those two teams are beating each other silly.
 
jobber said:

"I don't wear the same T-Shirt twice" :lol

Actually, seems like a regular dude otherwise. (save the whole shooting into the air at a strip club thing)
 
Dsal said:
"I don't wear the same T-Shirt twice" :lol

Actually, seems like a regular dude otherwise. (save the whole shooting into the air at a strip club thing)

From that vid, doesn't seem like a bad guy, actually.

Re: t-shirts: At least he's nice enough to donate them to some homeless shelters :lol
 
AstroLad said:
Hope the refs call a clean/tight game, because if they don't the Suns are screwed. In this regard, it's not even so much about "OMG THE REFS ARE CHEATING [insert preferred team here]" it's just that if the refs allow chippy, dirty, whatever you want to call it, but "loose" play, the Suns cannot win. Even the awful Lakers beat the Suns when the game was called loosely, so it's not exactly an accomplishment. Sure the Suns, like any other team, will occasionally lose their tempers (see: Raja Bell) or commit questionable fouls but beyond this they don't know how to actually use this to help them win the game, while the Spurs have several players who have made careers out of it. So it's kind of anti-climactic, but it really mostly comes down to how the game will be called.
If that is the case the Suns don't really deserve to advance.

I expect some mental toughness from teams in the playoffs. Not everything is going to go your way and teams that are mentally tough can recover from that. The Suns still have a chance to win this thing. They just have to STFU about the calls and start playing hard for 48 minutes.

Also, I take back what I said about Duncan slowing down. He was on fiyah in the last game and looked as good as the Duncan of old. Just abused Kurt Thomas.

And it will be hilarious if the NBA suspends Bowen for sticking his leg out. That was just a stupid foul. Remember that Raja Bell only got a one game suspension for giving someone a clothesline. There is no way anyone can rationally compare the two incidents. Not that I am saying Bowen is the cleanest player, but the arguing over that foul is ridiculous.
 
Mashing said:
How can any one (outside of Utah) like a team that fouls as much as the Jazz? That I just cannot comprehend. I've hated them since the Stockton and Malone days.

I'm a Pacers fan. I have been since the early 90s. I appreciate hard defense. Do you think the Davis Boys ever allowed a clean layup attempt?
 
bionic77 said:
If that is the case the Suns don't really deserve to advance.

I expect some mental toughness from teams in the playoffs. Not everything is going to go your way and teams that are mentally tough can recover from that. The Suns still have a chance to win this thing. They just have to STFU about the calls and start playing hard for 48 minutes.

Also, I take back what I said about Duncan slowing down. He was on fiyah in the last game and looked as good as the Duncan of old. Just abused Kurt Thomas.

And it will be hilarious if the NBA suspends Bowen for sticking his leg out. That was just a stupid foul. Remember that Raja Bell only got a one game suspension for giving someone a clothesline. There is no way anyone can rationally compare the two incidents. Not that I am saying Bowen is the cleanest player, but the arguing over that foul is ridiculous.

Well, absent some sort of corruption, whoever wins "deserves" to advance. They're not necessarily the better team, the nicer team, the tougher team, or anything. They're just the team that won and arguing who "deserves" to advance just becomes another way of expressing personal preferences. I might not be happy if they officials continue to call games fairly loosely but if SA wins I can't really say they didn't "deserve" to advance. Conversely, it's kind of silly to say the same about the Suns if they can pull it out. A lot of it is adaptation and a lot of it is luck. The Suns could be the "mentally toughest" team in the world, but they still imo would never (and I mean ever) beat SA in a seven-game series that is called like the 2000 Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Regardless, not to be a Nowitzki here, but it really all comes down to today.
 
AstroLad said:
Well, absent some sort of corruption, whoever wins "deserves" to advance. They're not necessarily the better team, the nicer team, the tougher team, or anything. They're just the team that won and arguing who "deserves" to advance just becomes another way of expressing personal preferences. I might not be happy if they officials continue to call games fairly loosely but if SA wins I can't really say they didn't "deserve" to advance. Conversely, it's kind of silly to say the same about the Suns if they can pull it out. A lot of it is adaptation and a lot of it is luck. The Suns could be the "mentally toughest" team in the world, but they still imo would never (and I mean ever) beat SA in a seven-game series that is called like the 2000 Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Regardless, not to be a Nowitzki here, but it really all comes down to today.
At least you are not whining about it. I positively hate hearing fans or teams bitch after they lose.

I also could see the Suns coming back from 3-1 to force a game 7. They just have to win one road game, it is not the end of the road. Though I really wonder what the Suns will do if they don't win this year. IMHO it isn't a question of talent (they are one of if not the most taletned team in the league). You only get so many chances to win rings and if they can't do it this year I wonder if they will ever do it.
 
No, the Suns have some of the most talented players in the league, but they aren't that deep. I fully expect SA to win the series and eventually move on the NBA finals.
 
AlteredBeast said:
No, the Suns have some of the most talented players in the league, but they aren't that deep. I fully expect SA to win the series and eventually move on the NBA finals.

w t f..... come on man.
 
I think the Pistons are the most talented top to bottom. I think Suns have the most talented (up for debate of course) starting 5 though. I think Spurs are pretty deep too, and have Timmy :)

O yea, forgot about Utah, they have a deep bench..
 
Hey man, I got high hopes for the Jazz. I called the Mavs getting spanked by the Warriors, even. I even called the Jazz winning in game 7 against the Rockets and beating the Warriors in game 4, even when nobody thought it would happen.

I would love to see the Jazz take down the Suns or more likely the Spurs, but I just don't think we are there yet. We are close, but not quite there. Regardless, I will be watching and cheering every game. I think we can win a couple, but anything more would be great.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
I forgot how big of a-holes Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson were in that whole ordeal. That was such a ridiculous sight.

So, Baron's elbow is under review? Predictions?

Predictions? He's the only star in this series. He won't even get a slap on the wrist.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
I forgot how big of a-holes Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson were in that whole ordeal. That was such a ridiculous sight.

So, Baron's elbow is under review? Predictions?



Ben Wallace started it!
 
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
Still awesome to watch. :D

I didn't watch the game, but did Artest had already done something to Wallace during the game or was this their first encounter?


it was under a minute and the Pistons were getting outplayed and on the verge of losing

I, for one, wouldn't be going to Ben for offense but that's Larry Brown coaching for ya.
 
jobber said:
Ben Wallace started it!

I agree.

I also thought Jax should have been suspended as long as Artest. Ron had a motive (beer toss). Jackson just ran into the crowd and started punching at random. I consider that to be much, much worse.

O'Neil shouldn't have gotten as many games as he did simply because the asshole he punched walked on the court. Fans are not allowed on the court.

The whole thing sickens me. I'm probably one of the only people on the planet who is a diehard fan of both the Pacers and 49ers. I had to suffer through Owens and Artest. Bad times...
 
Jason Richardson will not be suspended for game 5...no word on Baron Davis yet.

I don't think Richardson should have been suspended, but that was still a totally unnecessary foul.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
Jason Richardson will not be suspended for game 5...no word on Baron Davis yet.

I don't think Richardson should have been suspended, but that was still a totally unnecessary foul.

It was a hard foul, that's all.

I don't think he was planning on letting the opposition get a free dunk on him in the last minutes. Dirty, yeah, but whether you like it or not, that's just how it is when competitiveness is at its highest.
 
pheeniks said:
It was a hard foul, that's all.

I don't think he was planning on letting the opposition get a free dunk on him in the last minutes. Dirty, yeah, but whether you like it or not, that's just how it is when competitiveness is at its highest.

Well, he could have gone for the arms instead of the head...that's all I'm saying. Besides, you can't let a team just pass the ball around wasting clock for 20 seconds and then decide to pounce on them at the end of the shot clock. He was done playing defense until Okur went to put the shot up before the clock ran out.
 
Oh man, Simmons actually trotted out the Stoudemire-for-KG trade that I've been asking for since, well, forever.

Bill Simmons said:
So here's my solution: If Phoenix gets bounced this week, don't they HAVE to trade Amare Stoudemire for KG?

Right now, Stoudemire is a base-year compensation player because he's finishing the first year of his contract extension (five years, $73 million). The deal I'm proposing can't work under the cap until mid-July, when Stoudemire's cap figure morphs into the value of his current contract ($13.2 million for next season) and makes him infinitely more easy to trade (for details, check out Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ). But they could still agree on a pre-draft trade that wouldn't become official until a few weeks later.

Assuming Atlanta's pick doesn't land in the top-3, here's my proposal: Stoudemire, Atlanta's pick (depending on how the lottery shakes out, it would be as high as fourth or as low as sixth) and Marcus Banks (for cap purposes) to Minnesota for Garnett and Minnesota's pick (as high as seventh, as low as ninth).

Here's why both teams should do it:

Minnesota: That's practically 100 cents on the dollar for KG. They're getting a 1st-team All-NBA big man who's younger than KG, plus they're jumping into the top five of the draft with a chance to add another blue-chip forward (either Brandan Wright or Al Horford). Examine the T-Wolves roster and you'll notice that they don't need a 4-for-1 deal for KG; they're looking at an immediate future in which the Clippers and Celtics own two of their future first-rounders within the next five years, so it wouldn't make sense for them to bottom out with picks and young players. Stoudemire is the best and most sensible option for them. Period.

Phoenix: KG solves four problems for the Suns. First, they don't have to worry about the debilitating Marion/Stoudemire alpha dog battle anymore. Second, they don't have to worry about Stoudemire's surgically reconstructed knee anymore. Third, between KG, Nash and Bell, the Suns would have more than enough toughness/intensity/competitiveness to compete every spring (a real issue for them, even this season -- they're just not nasty enough). And fourth, they'd finally have someone who could potentially play Duncan to a draw (or as close as possible). Stoudemire just isn't a good defensive player -- he's prone to foul trouble and gets discouraged easily (as we witnessed while he pouted on the bench in Game 3). As for the age difference between KG and Stoudemire ... do you realize that Amare is only six years younger than KG? Crazy but true. And slipping two to four spots in the draft wouldn't hurt the Suns because they could still take Joakim Noah, an athletic big man who's perfect for them (and could play right away).

Now ...

Let's say the Suns make this deal, package their other two No. 1 picks (No. 24 and No. 29) to move into the mid-teens for Acie Law IV (the most NBA-ready point guard in the draft), then spend their free agent exemption on an athletic swingman like Matt Barnes. Maybe they'd be paying the luxury tax, but screw it -- how many times can you put together a potential 70-win team that's a prohibitive title favorite and the top TV draw in the league?

Check out this nine-man nucleus: KG, Marion, Bell, Barbosa and Nash as the starters, with Noah, Diaw, Law and Barnes coming off the bench. They'd be covered for every conceivable situation (smallball, grind-it-out ball, run-and-gun, you name it) and they'd be led by two desperate superstars (KG and Nash) who'd basically be ready to give 10 years of their lives to win one title.

Would you bet against that team in the 2008 playoffs? Me neither.

One other fun thing about this trade: On paper, it's the biggest NBA deal ever. We've seen superstars traded for multiple players and/or picks (Kareem and Wilt); we've seen superstars given away for 50 cents on the dollar (Shaq, Moses, Maravich and Barkley); we've seen superstars sold for cash (Doctor J); we've seen gigantic deals featuring multiple stars (like the Brandon-Kemp-Baker deal, or the one that sent J-Kidd to Phoenix); one-for-one swaps featuring All-Stars (DJ-Westphal and Marbury-Kidd); and we've seen major deals that became bigger as the years passed (Joe Barry Carroll and Larry Brown for Robert Parish and Kevin McHale). But can you think of another trade featuring as much star power? One of the best forwards of all time getting traded at the tail end of his prime for a first-team All-NBA player? No offense to Billy Paultz, but that's a whopper.

Anyway, watch how the Spurs attack Phoenix tonight with Duncan and tell me that KG wouldn't have helped. Not only should the Suns make a play for him this summer, they have to make a play for him this summer. If only for Nash's sake.

(And if they don't? Get ready to read more boring "Tim Duncan is the best" columns for the rest of the decade.)
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons

And I agree with almost every point.
 
I'm not sure if the Warriors can pull out a series win against Utah. I'm no hardcore basketball fan, merely casual, but I believe the team is pretty exciting. Hopefully they make the series a series again and not a blow out.

I love seeing the team dish out three after three, but if they penetrated the basket more last night I'd have no doubt series would be tied 2 - 2.
 
JavyOO7 said:
I'm not sure if the Warriors can pull out a series win against Utah. I'm no hardcore basketball fan, merely casual, but I believe the team is pretty exciting. Hopefully they make the series a series again and not a blow out.

I love seeing the team dish out three after three, but if they penetrated the basket more last night I'd have no doubt series would be tied 2 - 2.

I think they penetrated plenty last night, they just kept losing the ball or JAX would cry foul.
 
pheeniks said:
I think they penetrated plenty last night, they just kept losing the ball or JAX would cry foul.

They looked really tired. I think that their legs gave out in the 3rd and they just couldn't hit form the outside or finish from the inside. It's hard to drive when you're exhausted, so they kept jacking up threes. It was pretty obvious that Baron was completely gassed that game.
 
Really, they penetrated the hoop more than any other game in the series, but still made tons of bad calls and missed open shots. hen they fall, they win, when the threes don't fall, they have no structured backup plan and will lose. All season long it's been the story.
 
Al driving the lane is what gave the Warriors the lead. Then the Jazz clogged the lane.

That's why Okur being on the court is a key for the Warriors to run. Okur can't defend if you drive on him!
 
bionic77 said:
Also, I take back what I said about Duncan slowing down. He was on fiyah in the last game and looked as good as the Duncan of old. Just abused Kurt Thomas.

Duncan is happy because the one team that can stop him went out in the first round.
 
Cloudy said:
No way the Wolves trade KG to a WC contender and make themselves look like fools when he gets a title the same year...

Wolves aren't a contender or anywhere near it. They need to build for the future and a trade that would get them a top lottery pick and a young superstar would fit right into that. Nothing foolish about it.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
Hey, don't fault Jazz players because they play real defense. They're going to get called for fouls, because they're making a real attempt to keep the other team from scoring. They're not into this BS run it up the floor, chuck a three, and just hope the other team misses on their end. It's the way the game is supposed to be played.

Run, chuck, watch, run, chuck, watch, run, chuck, flop, run, chuck, watch, run, chuck, flop...

EDIT: Any word on whether or not Baron is going to get suspended a game?

Jazz play real defense :lol :lol :lol . The Spurs play real defense. The Rockets play real defense. Even the Pistons play real defense.

Jazz fans get under my skin so much because they think they play a "clean game". They play the "get away with as much as you can" type of game. And I have numerous examples of this.

Come on man, be real, this is a Jerry Sloan team.
 
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