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[May16]

If removing BS gameplay hindrances would make the game a total cakewalk (which I don't necessarily think is the case), they could also make other balance changes to compensate.

Meh meh.
Limiting inventory has long simply been a gameplay style that adds challenge (Rouge clones are notorious for that kind of stuff). If it's not one's taste, then that's that, but eh, hardy "BS" just because you don't like it. :lol

Is the game import friendly for those with a limited knowledge of Japanese?

Sounds like figuring out where to go might be difficult for you, if you're in that boat.

RPG Land review: "The story does have one quirk: it can sometimes appear vague about where the player needs to go next, and why. Actually, to the experienced RPG player, there is no point where the game leaves anything in question: everything that is needed to get through the story is present, just in an out-of-the-way place. Rather than dispensing useless information, NPCs are actually an important source of hints in the game. Remember the old time “Talk to Everyone” rule here. The story sequences might give a clue as to where to go, but no information as to how, and the player is left to find that out from the people around town. This will frustrate importers who can’t read much Japanese, or players who don’t often bother talking to NPCs."

 

[Llyranor]

Wife's review is up on RPG Land.

Icons in the corner of each skill button give a hint: magical and ranged attacks target foes in the back first, for example.

Are these any other types of icons that help specify which target it would prioritize?

for other things like Esuna and Shell, who knows what the criteria are exactly?

That sounds awful, urk.

The elimination of selecting a target and letting the AI select it on good faith trims the fat on a turn-based battle system in a way most games wouldn’t dare to. It makes battle speedier, eliminates several button presses or stylus taps

This is a pretty poor justification/rationalization for the lack of targetting, though. Especially since it's stylus-driven, it'd take you a second to tap a target.

makes strategy play intuitive, rather than by-the-numbers. And believe it or not, an intuitive style of play where predictability is limited actually can be a lot of fun. It comes down to how well the band of warriors is managed: poorly-managed teams will fall victim to the pitfalls of the targeting system, while well-managed teams will not often be put in a situation where targeting makes a big difference.

I can't comment on this game specifically. But lack of targetting and by-the-numbers don't have to be mutually exclusive. You just need clear concise rulesets to explain why the game targets so and so. Otherwise, players might (perhaps unfairly) attribute it to dumb AI. The esuna/shell comment above is one such concern. If I want to cast shell on specific character X because that's an active part of my plan, but can't because the game judges it can do a better job than me at targetting, then I can't really implement such a plan, whichever it may be. At least with clear rules, I can take into account who the game will target for me, and formulate a plan from that. If I can't even do that, and just have to play it by ear/"intuition", then the tactical depth of the game comes into doubt. Again, I can't tell for this game specifically how much the party management plays a role in this (but I don't see how that would make a difference if you can't even tell which character you want esuna to be cast on).

I want to remain open-minded about the lack of targetting, but if it feels semi-randomized, that doesn't sound very promising.

EDIT: I'm not too bothered by the limited inventory, unless the game goes out of its way to make it so that you need a specific item or else you're screwed and have to backtrack back
to town to get it. Limited inventory really added to the gameplay for Riviera and Shiren.

 

[Yaweee]

Meh meh.
Limiting inventory has long simply been a gameplay style that adds challenge (Rouge clones are notorious for that kind of stuff). If it's not one's taste, then that's that, but eh, hardy "BS" just because you don't like it. :lol

I've played and enjoyed plenty of rogue-likes, where the inventory management is a key aspect of the game. You don't have enough inventory space to hold on to everything you find, you can't go back later to pick things up, and there is no bag space-- it's use things as you find them, or they are gone forever. Here, it just sounds like you have to make trips to the Item Bin/Storage constantly; managing gear and spells for 24 different classes doesn't sound fun.

The lack of targeting just makes it seem like the multi-hit spells are going to be more powerful than they would be otherwise. However, not even being able to choose who you revive is humorous.

 

[May16]

Are these any other types of icons that help specify which target it would prioritize?

There's only one icon per skill: red for enemies, blue for allies. And then there are four Japanese kanji used to show who and where it will target: Back, Front, or All for enemies, and Single or All for allies.
Attacks default from left to right, front to back except back-targeted skills that prioritize front-to-back instead.
It isn't mentioned outright in the game, but where spells and elementally charged attacks are concerned, enemy weakness does make a difference. If there are two enemies in front, attacks normally default from left to right, but if the right enemy is weak to Fire, then Fire attacks tend to target that one instead.

For healing, the best candidate is some combination of who has the lowest numerical value for HP, the lowest percentage of max HP, and who takes the most damage. In the early game, numerical value almost always seems to be the determining factor, but later the other two come into play when max HP is large enough to differentiate the three. Its easier to predict than it sounds.
Any self-respecting person with a White Mage will be praying to make Cure or Cura multi-target, so targeting is less important later in the game. Combined with Pray, Cure is more effective than Curaga on a good White Mage.

Spells like Esuna and Shell do have rules, they're just a bit harder to predict than healing. They will always target whoever needs it, first and foremost, and will never target anyone that doesn't need it unless no one does, in which case it will target the caster and miss. If only one person needs it, they are the default target. If multiple characters need it, the top priority is on the caster, and then after that, I'm not very sure. It situationally followed consistent patterns after the caster had it, so Shell might have a basis in Magic Defense.

This is a pretty poor justification/rationalization for the lack of targetting, though. Especially since it's stylus-driven, it'd take you a second to tap a target.

It's not entire justification so much as listing an up-point about a feature that will probably piss off the masses, heh. The rest of (what may be seen as) justification is said elsewhere, where it talks about how targeting is not needed, surprisingly often, in this game, especially if you build the party correctly.

There's more emphasis on party building and management in this game than in most other FFs, which is one reason it can sort of get away with auto-targeting.

The esuna/shell comment above is one such concern. If I want to cast shell on specific character X because that's an active part of my plan, but can't because the game judges it can do a better job than me at targetting, then I can't really implement such a plan, whichever it may be. At least with clear rules, I can take into account who the game will target for me, and formulate a plan from that.

I agree on that one, definitely. The only pain I would encounter, with auto-targeting in this particular game, seems to be with healing my own party rather than attacking opponents.

EDIT: I'm not too bothered by the limited inventory, unless the game goes out of its way to make it so that you need a specific item or else you're screwed and have to backtrack back
to town to get it. Limited inventory really added to the gameplay for Riviera and Shiren.

Yeah, those games are pretty great.

 

[May16]

Here, it just sounds like you have to make trips to the Item Bin/Storage constantly;

Not really, no.

managing gear and spells for 24 different classes doesn't sound fun.

Every class can equip every piece of equipment, and the equipment that is best at any given time will be best for almost any class, so switching armor is only really necessary if you're making a drastic class shift from a warrior-type to a mage-type or something.

It's not like you're going to be game-breakingly handicapped by not being able to lug around everything you've found in the last 10 hours. It would actually probably fall on the side of excess.

Just prepare for the dungeon, listen to the NPCs' hints about elemental defense, and you should be fine for the most part.

 

[duckroll]

Not really, no.

I've found that it's not so much about making a trip back to the storage place, but just being generally annoyed at the game. There's no point making a trip back to the storage just to deposit say, a potion or phoenix down, or generic item you don't really want. At the same time, like I mentioned before it's so limiting that it means generally you can't carry much especially if you're playing magic jobs.

Here's an example:

White Mage w/ 4 equipment, 6 spell books. (10/15) - 5 slots free

Black Mage w/ 4 equipment, 6 spells books, 1 hi-potion, 1 phoenix down. (12/15) - 3 slots free

Thief w/ 4 equipment, 2 spell books, 2 hi-potion, 1 phoenix down. (9/15) - 6 slots free


You go into a dungeon, and let's say there are 5 chests, and you get 4 drops from enemies in battles. That's 9 slots taken up in total, which gives you 5 slots left in the entire party.

Not bad right? Not if you want to carry back up items into the dungeon! There are many spells and equipment in the game which have different uses. Especially weapons and accessories which carry different elemental or status benefits. Players of RPGs generally want to be well prepared, and giving yourself more options for strategy is never a bad thing. But here the game actually limits your options, and not in a good way.

This doesn't mean you have to select your equipment VERY carefully for a dungeon. It just means that you have to go in, go through the mundane and normally not too tough dungeon, and get to the save point before the boss. Then you fight the boss and see if you can beat it with your current set up. If you cannot, then you just run or teleport back to town to reconfigure before RUNNING THROUGH THE ENTIRE DUNGEON again, to fight the boss.

This is not good game design, this is stupid game design which doesn't add anything to the game besides annoying the player because of a stupid limitation which has no real impact on anything. Imagine a Thief not being able to steal anything from a boss because his inventory is full. Even though SOMEONE ELSE'S INVENTORY has space. Stuff like that is just annoying and stupid. :lol

Edit: While Reno seems to have scared everyone off with his complains of auto-targeting, I definitely agree that it is NOT the core problem in the game. The main problem of the game is just that it's a really average RPG with shitty design decisions. It just so happens to have AMAZING art direction, super cute character and monster designs, and an above average soundtrack.

 

[lyre]

Limited inventory really added to the gameplay for Riviera and Shiren.

However, limited inventory done in games like Earthbound or DQ3 NES is literally gamebreaking for me since it forces you to throw away stuff when it really shouldn't be necessary (and I'm the type to never use items in rpgs). This is especially annoying since the gear your characters are 'wearing' remain present in your 'bag'.

Limited inventory like Dragon Quarter or EO games would be most preferable.

The lack of targeting just makes it seem like the multi-hit spells are going to be more powerful than they would be otherwise. However, not even being able to choose who you revive is humorous.

Not just more preferable, they would be the most abused skills just because of a poor design decision/programming setback. And yes, it is hilarious.

And I'm not sure if I'll be buying this game at launch now, or if ever.

The main problem of the game is just that it's a really average RPG with shitty design decisions.

Guess I can write this off of my 'to buy' list then and just pick up the art book (if one gets released) and the OST.

 

[duckroll]

Actually people should be glad that this didn't turn out to be a fantastic game. It just means it's easier for people to boycott S-E's bullshit single save policy without feeling bad about missing out what might actually be a great game! :lol

 

[Yaweee]

Actually people should be glad that this didn't turn out to be a fantastic game. It just means it's easier for people to boycott S-E's bullshit single save policy without feeling bad about missing out what might actually be a great game! :lol

And the tax! Don't forget the tax! It's like a double-boycott.

I'm never really happy when a game turns out worse than expected, since the more good games there are for me to play, the happier I'll be. For a few weeks, this was my most anticipated game; it's a goddamn shame they seem to have screwed up so much, and it probably puts a damper on any plans for S-E or other companies to follow suit and make more games of this style.

 

[lyre]

Actually people should be glad that this didn't turn out to be a fantastic game. It just means it's easier for people to boycott S-E's bullshit single save policy without feeling bad about missing out what might actually be a great game! :lol

But I love average games,

Spoiler

some of my best friends are average games,

but I'm still boycotting this game for the already listed complaints and Square's cheapening out on the save memory.

 

[Llyranor]

It's kind of too bad. The job/crown system + saving up AP/guarding to use stronger abilities + customize any 6 abilities per char in-battle seem pretty interesting.

I'm kind of peeved at the S-E tax, too. Paid it for DQ4, ended up being disappointed in it, and seeing the game drop in price soon thereafter was a bit annoying. Since DQ5 actually has party talk, I figured I'd give the series another go. So, now it's out of stock and being sold at higher than it was with the stupid tax to begin with.

 

[duckroll]

I'm never really happy when a game turns out worse than expected, since the more good games there are for me to play, the happier I'll be. For a few weeks, this was my most anticipated game; it's a goddamn shame they seem to have screwed up so much, and it probably puts a damper on any plans for S-E or other companies to follow suit and make more games of this style.

Don't worry, I'm sure FFV DS is still on the horizon! Maybe they can get Yoshida to do the character design and art direction too, but this time put someone actually competent in charge of the game design... like say.... Ito.

 

[duckroll]

Okay, I think the "4 Warriors of Light" part of the game actually starts at the point I'm at now. I managed to fly back to the first village to unlock the windmill to check my stats. 11 hours 40 mins. I wonder how much more game there is after this...

 

[sprsk]

I've finished about 6 dungeons and the inventory thing hasn't been a problem for me. Maybe I'm overleveled but I've yet to feel like I lost a boss fight die to equipment. I feel like a lot of the negatives are being overstated.

White mages don't need to carry potions. In fact if you have a white mage no one really does!

Also why give a thief spells?
Just equip what you need. You can't equip a weapon that has all types of elemental damage so why try to equip your Mage with so many books? Pick a base element and then a weak sub element and then change it out depending on the dungeon. I mean, it's pretty clear by looking at what they sell in the shop what the enemies might be weak against (oh they are selling an anti sleep cape, I wonder why!!)

You just gotta be smarter about the way you play.

 

[ITA84]

Limited inventory really added to the gameplay for Riviera and Shiren.

Another similarity with Riviera is fixed attack and healing range: for example, healing items are always used on fixed targets (oneself or lowest HP character). However, this game doesn't have predetermined battles like Riviera does; random battles can't be as tactically intense.

 

[batbeg]

Okay, I think the "4 Warriors of Light" part of the game actually starts at the point I'm at now. I managed to fly back to the first village to unlock the windmill to check my stats. 11 hours 40 mins. I wonder how much more game there is after this...

Oh so there's somewhere you can check the time played? Yay!

 

[sprsk]

Oh so there's somewhere you can check the time played? Yay!

There's apparently a class that works according to your play time.

 

[May16]

Oh so there's somewhere you can check the time played? Yay!

Yep. To quote mysef from page 3~

Wife's review is up on RPG Land.

She's sitting here saying "The game has a clock, you just have to go to the windmill in the first town. You need a key for it though. The guy tells you: game time, how many battles you've been in, how many steps you've taken, etc."

http://rpgland.com/games/reviews/hikari-no-4-senshi-four-warriors-of-light-final-fantasy-gaiden/

 

[Blackace]

I've finished about 6 dungeons and the inventory thing hasn't been a problem for me. Maybe I'm overleveled but I've yet to feel like I lost a boss fight die to equipment. I feel like a lot of the negatives are being overstated.

White mages don't need to carry potions. In fact if you have a white mage no one really does!

Also why give a thief spells?
Just equip what you need. You can't equip a weapon that has all types of elemental damage so why try to equip your Mage with so many books? Pick a base element and then a weak sub element and then change it out depending on the dungeon. I mean, it's pretty clear by looking at what they sell in the shop what the enemies might be weak against (oh they are selling an anti sleep cape, I wonder why!!)

You just gotta be smarter about the way you play.

This this this! Once you get to the point where you can have a white mage you are set for potions and PDs.. for the most part. And if you give up a slot and guve someone else a cure spell, you really won't have a need for them.

Just like spr[0]sk I have had no issues with any of the "crippling design flaw" that have been popping up in this thread.

I am having a blast with it still and the story is light hearted and cute.

 

[Oichi]

Wow, so I got to the last dungeon in the game and....

Spoiler

they actually STRIP you of your crowns before you go in! And then you have to fight all of the major bosses you've fought after all four party members reunited after the fight with Roran. Woooow. I tried fighting one boss and got raped pretty hard so I'm thinking I gotta further upgrade my equipment and levels, but what a dickish move lol

Edit: I do think you'll probably get them back as you beat the bosses again in the last dungeon but it seems so unnecessary to do it like this heh

 

[Shawn6661]

Gamekult.com Import Review

When you get to try this new RPG, you may think it's been made by head cooks in front of their cooking pot and not by a japanese staff in Shinjuku. The scenario, the game system, the narration or even the difficulty make the game so oldschool it allows the disenchanted thirty-years gamers to feel young again without playing another remake. Old school means very hard difficulty and even if the scenario is simple, it moves slowly because of strong and stingy enemies. Playable up to 4, the game encourages the multiplayer mode by offering points to buy powerful equipements to the players. A nice game for the nostalgic, the meticulous, or large families.

+a magical atmosphere
+convincing multiplayer
+convincing graphics
+fabulous music

-frustating diffucilty
-Dying causes a loss of jewels
-some jobs are useless

7/10

 

[Llyranor]

So, did everyone stop playing this or something? No updated impressions?

 

[Freyjadour]

So, did everyone stop playing this or something? No updated impressions?

Just not enough JGAF anymore I suppose. Thread is as dead as the Strange Journey and Blue Dragon DS threads.

 

[Kenka]

Damn this game is so bloody hard. I gameovered 5 times between the time I left the village and passed the first cave.

Who the hell did think it was a good idea to let people die at their very first encounters ? Jesus Christ.

 

[faridmon]

Damn this game is so bloody hard. I gameovered 5 times between the time I left the village and passed the first cave.

Who the hell did think it was a good idea to let people die at their very first encounters ? Jesus Christ.

You haven't played FF 3 DS have you? :lol
Its gets easier later on, just put up with it for now.