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[duckroll]

Is this frustrating you? Blue Dragon + barely advanced the story, and now this advances it only a little further?

No, not really. I don't think I play Blue Dragon games for the storyline really. If I did, I would certainly have picked up BD+ even though it looked crap. What I play Blue Dragon games for is the worldview and stuff. I think it's really cute, and I like Toriyama designs quite a bit. The stuff in Blue Dragon are different from what he does for Dragon Quest and imo, it's a bit closer to stuff he did for Chrono Trigger. I really like the wacky world concept along with the mechanical designs of robots, poop snakes and stuff.

 

[duckroll]

About 18+ hours into the game, and it feels like it's nearing the end. It's probably 20+ hours at least, and there looks to be a ton of optional bosses to fight eventually. I'll be tackling most of those in multiplayer, because I don't think the harder ones will be possible with the game AI.

I'm making this post just to talk about the AI in Blue Dragon DS. This AI has to be the worst AI I have seen in any action RPG I have ever played, ever, in my entire life. There is a reason why for most of the earlier era of gaming, action RPGs never featured party members, and when they did, they usually included the option to switch between characters or to allow the player to set commands of some sort. It was because AI programming wasn't that complicated, and they didn't want it to affect the gameplay. This game tries to shoehorn party members into the game, while no one at Tri-Crescendo apparently knows how to program any sort of real AI beyond the most basic type.

The AI characters in Blue Dragon only know how to do several things:

- follow the player character in a straight line (there is pretty much NO pathfinding AI)
- attack the nearest enemy
- cast a random support spell available to the equipped shadow
- cast a random attack spell available to the equipped shadow
- stand still and do nothing

There are no AI settings, so there's no way for the player to configure what the AI party members might do or how they behave in battles. There is no way to disable spells on party members so they won't cast useless spells. There is no way to command or control the AI party members in any way, or in any way influence how they might act.

Here are some awesome things they have shown that they are able to do with the amazing AI:

- If the main character has half HP, but the other party members have full HP, no AI will heal.

- If the main character dies, the AI will go insane and either stand still and do nothing, or attack the enemy/boss mindlessly. There will be no attempt to run, not attempt to run or to stay alive until you are revived.

- If the main character moves along a corner in a tight path, the AI will continue to run against the wall/edge and be stuck that way until you get far away enough for the game to teleport them back next to you.

- If the enemy is weak against a certain element and you are using that element, it does not mean the AI will know what that means. It can still cast spells which end up healing the enemy instead.

- If the AI has a status ailment which causes its attacks to heal the enemy, that doesn't stop the AI from attacking the enemy. In fact, I don't think any sort of ailment changes the AI behavior at all.

- Even though it is possible to buff up with support spells before a boss battle, you have to do it all yourself. Since there's no way to tell the AI what to do, and they won't do ANY casting outside of battles (except for healing if they're hurt), you have to cast all the support spells yourself.


There, I'm done venting. I'm definitely having fun with the game, but man, I can't believe I have to complain about some of these things in this day and age. You would think there are some standards in making an action RPG with party members, but nooooooo I guess not! :lol

 

[Bebpo]

Beat the game at ~22 hours. There's still a post-game world and about 2 dozen post-game difficult bosses, so probably get about 30 hours out of it. The game definitely took me by surprise and was far better than Away or BD+; Might be there best DS effort, but then again I really enjoyed ASH.

Game was great outside the horrible, horrible partner AI. This just means you need to make your main a badass to make up for them. Though keeping them alive to heal is important. At one point in the story all the partner AI characters say "you are the only one strong enough to do it, we'll be your guards as you go". So maybe that's how the game is supposed to go.

At the end of the day it was a portable MMO in your pocket like FFXII but more looty. The main emphasis of the game was on creating armor/weapons/accessories and accessorizing them all. If I knew at the start of the game what I knew at the end of the game, the game would have been a breeze. But it's challenging because you don't really learn or understand how much you can really do in combining things until you put a good amount of time into it. It wasn't until the final boss that I realized a few things and made my character as close to invincible as possible.

Was a good time and good sequel (though more like expansion) to Blue Dragon. They should have made this for the X360 with online play and achievements and it would have been better than every Tri-ace rpg on that system so far.

Oh and the game does a good job making you feel like a unique character. The visible equipment is cool and the story is about YOU, sort of like how KoTOR was. I was looking pimp by the end.

If they bring this to the US with fully working online play it'd be worth a buy for anyone interested. It's Scamco though so who knows.

 

[Nif]

I want to play it. Too bad you can't control your party members at all since they couldn't get AI down.

 

[jesusraz]

I was supposed to have an interview with Sakaguchi-san about this earlier this year, but post-poned it as I didn't really know too much about the game and didn't just want to do a generic interview...

Now would be a good time to get that question list sorted, though and it'd be great if you good folk could throw in some ones based on what you've played so far. Feel free to just post as many Qs as you can think of here and I'll collate everything afterwards. I'm supposed to keep it to no more than 10 questions, just for reference.

 

[duckroll]

Beat it too. 22 hours. The final boss was a bit of a bitch, but with the right buffs and some advice from Bebpo, I kicked his ass. The ending was pretty nice, and there's a solid amount of post-game stuff which opens up, obviously geared towards multiplayer. Overall the game was enjoyable for me, but definitely not great. It has a ton of flaws in the game design, and it's just not as captivating as a proper sequel to Blue Dragon would have been. The ending definitely introduces elements which would be used for a full blown RPG sequel, but judging from the sales I doubt we'll ever get anything like that. It's sort of a pity that after 4 DS games, Mistwalker hasn't really made a single traditional RPG on the system and so far I would that's definitely the best sort of game they are at designing. It's really too bad.

As far as questions for Sakaguchi go, I really only have two.

1) Why do you hate success?

and

2) Is the person responsible for the party AI in this game already murdered, or do I have to fly down to Tokyo to do it myself?

Thanks.

 

[duckroll]

Wow, post-game stuff is pretty damn hard! Just got wiped on the second screen of the new dungeon which opens up post-game. :lol

 

[Macstorm]

It's sort of a pity that after 4 DS games, Mistwalker hasn't really made a single traditional RPG on the system and so far I would that's definitely the best sort of game they are at designing. It's really too bad.

I'll have to agree with this completely. I thought BD was playable and really enjoyed Lost Odyssey, so the fact that ASH, Away, and the two other BDs have all been as far away from BD and LO as possible is sad.

Before they die completely I guess we should expect what next? An on-rail Lost Odyssey shooter-RPG?

 

[duckroll]

Before they die completely I guess we should expect what next? An on-rail Lost Odyssey shooter-RPG?

That sounds like a possible Wii game from Mistwalker to me!

 

[jesusraz]

As far as questions for Sakaguchi go, I really only have two.

1) Why do you hate success?

and

2) Is the person responsible for the party AI in this game already murdered, or do I have to fly down to Tokyo to do it myself?

Thanks.

Ha-bloody-ha Come on, surely you and Bebpo have some (proper) burning questions? duckroll, you've been flying the flag for this game alone for quite some time now, so it seems only fitting you throw some Qs into the pot

 

[jj984jj]

Ask him if he'll ever release a good turn-based RPG on the DS. Be sure to include the word good, wouldn't want him to finally make one but go with a developer like HitMaker next.

 

[duckroll]

I'm totally serious about those questions. It's obvious Sakaguchi isn't interested in success or even trying to make any money. The burning question is why!

 

[Eternia]

About 18+ hours into the game, and it feels like it's nearing the end. It's probably 20+ hours at least, and there looks to be a ton of optional bosses to fight eventually. I'll be tackling most of those in multiplayer, because I don't think the harder ones will be possible with the game AI.

I'm making this post just to talk about the AI in Blue Dragon DS. This AI has to be the worst AI I have seen in any action RPG I have ever played, ever, in my entire life. There is a reason why for most of the earlier era of gaming, action RPGs never featured party members, and when they did, they usually included the option to switch between characters or to allow the player to set commands of some sort. It was because AI programming wasn't that complicated, and they didn't want it to affect the gameplay. This game tries to shoehorn party members into the game, while no one at Tri-Crescendo apparently knows how to program any sort of real AI beyond the most basic type.

I'm not surprised judging from just Eternal Sonata. They somehow managed to botch the enemy turned-based AI (inefficient pathing or just plain running in a circle and wasting a turn) so I imagine real-time could only be a disaster.

 

[Kid Marin]

Euro announcement :

'Blue Dragon : Awakened Shadow' (NDS) Announced

Set two years after the story of the original title, Blue Dragon: Awakened Shadow Shadow brings the Blue Dragon RPG experience to DS. Awakened from a long slumber, the new enemies bear some resemblance to Nene, the defeated adversary of the first game, a conundrum which leads the player, Shu, and his friends into a terrifying fight to reclaim the lost shadows and restore balance to the world.

Developed by tri-Crescendo, the studio behind Eternal Sonata and Fragile, Blue Dragon : Awakened Shadow Shadow brings the Blue Dragon role-playing experience to DS players in the PAL regions for the very first time following the title's Japanese launch in October 2009. Continuing the series' contemporary approach to traditional Japanese role-playing games, Blue Dragon : Awakened Shadow is set two years after the story of the original 2007 title Blue Dragon for Xbox 360.

“It is very important to us to continue to reach new audiences with Blue Dragon : Awakened Shadow for DS, just as previous games in the series have done with their different way of presenting the Japanese style of role-playing game,“ said Hideo Baba, Producer, Namco Bandai Games Inc. “This game is the first time Blue Dragon will be available on DS in Europe and PAL territories, and we really hope everyone is going to enjoy it.”

For the first time in the series, the player can assume the role of the main character, choose the character’s gender, and customize their look. The stylus- or button-based controls make it easy to customize clothes, hairstyles and facial details of the main character to fit the player's personality. The player can also upgrade equipment, weapons and armor, which are visually reflected in the character’s appearance after they are equipped. Players can also change shadows in order to tactically overcome the game’s many challenges and formidable bosses.

With an engaging new story and a whole new level of strategy, Blue Dragon : Awakened Shadow is coming on the Nintendo DS across Europe and the PAL regions

http://worthplaying.com/article/2009/10/29/news/69789/

 

[Nirolak]

US Announcement:

Create your own character and adventure with Shu and friends in Blue Dragon: Awakened Shadow, coming to the U.S. Nintendo DS this spring, courtesy of D3Publisher.

Blue Dragon: Awaked Shadow is set two years after the original Blue Dragon and a year after the previous DS installment, Blue Dragon Plus. Instead of controlling Shu, the player creates their own character in this game, selecting the look and gender of your avatar before setting off on an adventure to rid the world of a newly-awakened enemy and restore balance.

A customizable character means the player can also change shadows to fit the situation, adding an element of strategy to the game that wasn't there before.

I have to admit, the original Blue Dragon is one of my least favorite RPG games of this console generation, and the first DS follow-up didn't impress me much. However, Awakened Shadow is developed by tri-Crescendo so there might still be hope.

Source: http://kotaku.com/5392652/d3publisher-brings-more-blue-dragon-stateside

Oddly enough it's being published under D3 despite Namco Bandai owning the company.

 

[bluemax]

I'm totally serious about those questions. It's obvious Sakaguchi isn't interested in success or even trying to make any money. The burning question is why!

I can't name a single Japanese developed action RPG with intelligent party AI. It's like they stopped trying to improve AI after the SNES.

 

[duckroll]

I can't name a single Japanese developed action RPG with intelligent party AI. It's like they stopped trying to improve AI after the SNES.

The Tales series, the Kingdom Hearts games and most recently Ys 7 on the PSP all have party AI which is not retarded. I'm not asking for a lot here, and more importantly, I'm asking for options for the player to set configurations to make the AI perform in a more effective way. There are no options here whatsoever. It's not about "intelligent" party AI at all, but about how incompetent the options here are and how the lack of proper AI totally hinders the game from being more tactical or fun.