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Official Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess thread
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Magicpaint
Member
By the time I finished Dungeon 3, I was simply in a gaming state that was far, far greater than what any other Zelda title afforded me, so yeah TP is easily my favourite Zelda game.
_Alkaline_
Member
MutFox said:
Yep, favourite Zelda ever. Consequently, favourite game ever.
Tritroid
Member
The Hero of Twilight did, but the Hero of Time didn't. The Hero of Time and Zelda didn't receive their pieces until after Ganondorf had already laid hands on the complete Triforce still inside the Sacred Realm and split it into the 3 pieces.AniHawk said:
In my opinion, the Triforce pieces in Twilight Princess are already with the 3 holders because Ganondorf split the True Force in Ocarina of Time. And still going with the split timeline theory, the Triforce itself wouldn't be confined to just one time period. (An example of this would be the Triforce of Courage traveling back in time with the Hero of Time at the end of OoT.)
So if you consider that both timelines are flowing side-by-side, then the Triforce itself could have effects on both; A sort of cause and effect relationship. For example, if Ganondorf was first laying hands on the complete Triforce shortly after the Door of Time was opened in OoT, splits it, and receives the Triforce of Power as a result then the Ganondorf of the other time period would receive the Triforce of Power at roughly the exact same time. I think that's why Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf in Twilight Princess act very un-sure about their powers, as if they have no clue where they received them from.
I think that adds much more depth to the story as well, if you consider that Ganondorf in Twilight Princess would coincidentally be granted the Triforce of Power at exactly the right moment to save his life from execution because his counterpart split the Triforce and also received the Triforce of Power.
CajoleJuice
Member
Hah, I voted it second anyway, because that's as low as I think it could go. It's going to win without my first-place vote anyhow.AniHawk said:Just finish it by Friday.
It really is something else though.
CajoleJuice
Member
jarosh said:
...I haven't made the other GIF yet. I'm lazy.
CajoleJuice
Member
Oops, I forgot to scale it down.jarosh said:
56K FTL
CajoleJuice
Member
My name was PuertoRicanJuice...
fly high ~ayunite~
Member
Twilight Princess is now my favourite.
In terms of 3D Zelda's..
1. Twilight Princess
2. Ocarina of Time
3. Wind Waker
(never got round to playing MM, don't kill me)
In terms of 3D Zelda's..
1. Twilight Princess
2. Ocarina of Time
3. Wind Waker
(never got round to playing MM, don't kill me)
Magicpaint
Member
fly high ~ayunite~ said:
PLAY MM.
No, Twilight is not my favourite Zelda.
Ocarina is still my top Zelda, it's still has the most epicly told story, the gameplay is richer than TP (as in sidequests, minigames), it had solid dungeons, good sidequests and my favourite bosses in the 3D Zeldas
Then Majora, Wind Waker and Twilight are equal in second place because they all have their own strengths and shortcomings, whereas Ocarina covered everything well.
- Majora has the best sidequests and story
- Wind Waker has a solid story and the best characterisation, especially Zelda and Ganon
- Twilight has the best dungeons (although easy), world scope (though not much to fill it with :/ ) and best supporting character Midna
Ocarina is still my top Zelda, it's still has the most epicly told story, the gameplay is richer than TP (as in sidequests, minigames), it had solid dungeons, good sidequests and my favourite bosses in the 3D Zeldas
disregarding Ganon in Wind Waker, and Morpheel + Zant in Twilight of course
Then Majora, Wind Waker and Twilight are equal in second place because they all have their own strengths and shortcomings, whereas Ocarina covered everything well.
- Majora has the best sidequests and story
- Wind Waker has a solid story and the best characterisation, especially Zelda and Ganon
- Twilight has the best dungeons (although easy), world scope (though not much to fill it with :/ ) and best supporting character Midna
Magicpaint
Member
Ocarina has its shortcomings too. Hyrule field is almost completely useless. It's like an empty space that acts as a hub, but there is not anything worthwhile in there. The story was a rip-off of Alttp's and just told in a more cinematic manner, it really didn't drive anything.
It's actually my least favourite of the 4 3D Zeldas.
It's actually my least favourite of the 4 3D Zeldas.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Magicpaint said:
In terms of impact on me as a gamer, Ocarina tops all of them. But in terms of actual enjoyment (now that I look back at it), only Wind Waker is worse than Ocarina of the 3D Zelda games.
1. Twilight Princess
2. Majora's Mask
...(2d Zeldas)
5. Ocarina
6. Wind Waker
...more 2D Zeldas
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
jarosh said:
Basically, yeah. Although...I don't know, Ocarina's bosses were really tight.
BrandNew said:
Not as tight as flying around with a ****ing dragon breathing fire at you during a storm, or a giant spider shooting fire-laser at you.
Although ALttP has the best bosses IMO, only because that's the only Zelda bosses where I actually might die, they're a lot more intense than any of the 3D bosses.
Edit: shit, sorry.
Magicpaint
Member
jarosh said:
Agreed. The dungeons were solid though. Fortest Temple ftw.
I liked Alttp's bosses too, but they were too short and too confined in a small space to really get the epic and gargantuan feel the 3D ones evoke.
DarknessTear
Banned
OoT's gameplay is terrible as far as today's standards go. TP has done a great job stepping it up.
jarosh said:
STORY:
- The pacing was perfect in Ocarina. No pussyfooting for an hour or two before you got in the first dungeon. You were in the Deku Tree in the first 15mins and loving it.
- Midna leaves you in the dark about why you're really getting the
Fused Shadows
- Although TP's cinematics are VERY good, the cinematics in Ocarina had a certain quality to them that still aren't matched by TP, for example,
pulling the Master Sword out in Twilight Princess felt like such a non-event in TP.
In Ocarina, just the little things like Link stepping up to the pedestal with a faceful of cautious curiosity made that scene much more memorable.
In Ocarina, just the little things like Link stepping up to the pedestal with a faceful of cautious curiosity made that scene much more memorable.
- Music in Ocarina is much better and it helped contribute a lot to the general atmosphere of the game, this was lacking in TP and made critical scenes have less impact than they did. The first time I got excited in TP was the first Horseback Battle and mainly because of the music.
- It felt more satisfying to complete because of the kickass finale, TP does not even compare.
GAMEPLAY:
- Ocarina never forced any crappy bughunts on you
- Ocarina would ongoingly reward you as you caught skulltulas, the Poes in TP are handled horribly, there's no incentive (same goes for Agitha).
- I find that there's much more depth between Young/Adult Link in Ocarina than between Adult Link/Wolf Link in TP.
- Where's all the environment control we gained in Ocarina and Majora, ability to create storms or control the sun, this felt like a step back in TP
- Dungeons in Ocarina were harder than Wind Waker and Twilight Princess
- They actually bothered to hide the dungeon keys in Ocarina.
- And where's the super creepy Shadow Temple equivalent?!
Arbiter's Grounds
- For me, Bosses in TP would range from 6-10 because of
boring bosses like Daibaba and Blizetta
- Hyrule Market had THREE minigames, while Twilight Princess has only ONE
- Where are Ocarina's awesome minigames? (horseback archery, shooting gallery, bowling alley), TP's new minigames are cool, but they're not all that.
- Doesn't seem like there's that many sidequests in Twilight Princess, and part of that feeling is due to how linear the story is, it doesn't let you explore much til after dungeon 3.
- Doesn't even feel like there's as many NPCs you can talk to that can really do anything.
- No proper trading quest? The longest one in TP is in the main story and it's only like 4-5 trades long... Link's Awakening would have a fit!
- There's no proper stealth stuff like Gerudo's Fortress/Deku Palace or the Forbidden Fortress in TP at all, instead we get a Bulbin camp with no harsh penalty for being discovered.
DarknessTear
Banned
Wii said:
Yeah I tried getting into Master Quest which helped me realize how terrible the game is compared to today's standards. Why don't you go back and replay it right now after playing TP and tell me if your nostalgia compares to the real experience?
The thing about TP for me is the puzzles are so much more organic, it seems, so much more fleshed out.
OOT had awesome dungeons, but there was a LOT of block-pushing/crystal switching, whereas in TP, those puzzles are there, but they're either few and far between or the puzzles are presented in a dramatically different fashion.
OOT had awesome dungeons, but there was a LOT of block-pushing/crystal switching, whereas in TP, those puzzles are there, but they're either few and far between or the puzzles are presented in a dramatically different fashion.
i'm not going to comment on every one of your points because i can see that we have VASTLY different opinions just by looking at these two points:Wii said:
whaaa? yeah, that's a positive. for TP!Wii said:
again, that's a positive for me.Wii said:
i don't think there's a need to discuss this any urther. our viewpoints are just completely different.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Wii said:
Seems to me that this is just nostalgia taking hold of you.
I can disagree with a lot of things there. I personally think TP's music is better, while OoT's is probably a bit more memorable (again, nostalgia).
About the finale...
Nostalgia again. I guarantee that if TP's ending was the first you played, you would've liked it better. However, I will agree that Ganon in OoT was more epic than Beat Ganon in TP.
There's really nothing crappy about them. They're sooo much better than the Triforce hunts in Wind Waker, simply because the way you hunt them down introduces you to the land and plot that will come next. Indeed, the bughunts can act more as plot devices more than mear obstacles to go through before you reach the real world.
Sort of agree. However, there is still lots of rewards from Agitha (seriously, 150 rupees per bug pair is a lot of dough...really helps you after a donation to the old man to Malo Mart). And the
Bottle with Fairy Tears from Jovani was really cool.
Simply disagree outright. The Wolf makes much more of an impact on the story than Young Link did...in Ocarina you were ust Young Link for the intro of the game and it never really went back to it in terms of plot. Wolf Link plays a much more vital role this time around because of the
Twili Legend of the Hero...who would appear as a beast when brought into the Twilight.
Bollocks. Maybe harder than Wind Waker (of course they were), but Ocarina was such a sinch...as was TP's. At least TP had a much better sense of design in terms of layout and puzzles.
I don't even know what this means. You're saying the keys of TP aren't hidden? What a load of crap, they handled them the same way they did in Ocarina (even though you only needed one at a time in this game).
Who says there has to be one for each Zelda game? There wasn't for Majora's. Wind Waker sorta did, but it was no where near the haunting dungeon from OoT.
Arbiter's Grounds
was much cooler than the Shadow Temple anyway. The Shadow Temple was pretty lame, to be honost. TP's "equal" was much more inspired.
I don't even want to respond more, as I know you're just going to respond back agruing your point. More power to you, Ocarina was awesome. But I think (as do many other Zelda fans) that TP is better.
Sorta agree here, but they have the river archery which is really cool. And the STAR game is awesome.
I don't even want to respond more, as I know you're just going to respond back agruing your point. More power to you, Ocarina was awesome. But I think (as do many other Zelda fans) that TP is better.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
unifin said:
Are you thinking it's a different
bridge? The one they fix is the one all the way east of Northern Hyrule Field, north of Kakariko village...last portions of the Eldin Province. Not the huge Eldin Bridge on the north part of that area.
Guys, I remember I've had read something on a Spanish mag (I think it was on Edge Spain) about a... tourist center or something in this game so you could watch at places you visited earlier in the game just for pleasure.
Is this feature really in the game or did they smoke some horseshit?
Is this feature really in the game or did they smoke some horseshit?
I played the first 2hrs again and it certainly reminded me how lacking TP is in some areas.DarknessTear said:
Can you point out what's terrible about Ocarina's gameplay?
I wholeheartedly agree, but TP's dungeons are so terribly easy.unifin said:
I want harder puzzles, and I don't mind classic block-pushing and crystal switching, I'd be happier if there were more of them.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Chao said:
They sorta misled us. Yeah, it's in there, but only
When you're a wolf, howling to the Warrior Wolf guy...thing.
crisdecuba
Member
It's important to note that the "pussyfooting" serves several purposes. 1. It establishes character relationships with Link - relationships that are a part of the progressing STORY. 2. It familiarizes you with the majority of the basic mechanics (horse riding, sword fighting, calling hawks, calling Epona, how the lantern works, aiming with the Wii-mote). This was especially necessary since you're using a whole new control scheme. In fact, if you read the developer interviews that Iwata conducted, they expanded the whole Ordon village sequence from one day to three partly because of the whole new control set up.Wii said:
I disagree that knowing everything up front is part of a good story. There's a lot to be said for keeping a sense of mystery going. I, for example, question Midna's motives for guiding me to the fused shadows. I thought she was going to betray me at some point. This made the progression more interesting.
The mistake you're making is in assuming that similar events in each game should have the same cinematic weight to them. The focus for TP is very different and contains things not found in OoT. For example, the scene where
Ilia regains her memory
I agree that their involvement in the story could have been more, but I disagree that they should not have been in it. The final battle, with Zelda and Ganon involved, was like the perfect realization of the traditional Zelda final battle. Without them it would have seemed empty.
Wow... no... just no.
What?? Did we complete the same game??
GAMEPLAY:
The bug hunts were properly confined to a single area and required actual thought to complete. Since where they were was marked on the map, it didn't involve endless searching, which is what ruins collectathons. I enjoyed them and they weren't overdone.
*shrug* I didn't do either thing in either game. I don't understand why you didn't like the bug hunts, but would invest time into an option hunt like catching the poes or the bugs for Agitha?
I don't know what this means. There is more "depth between"? Do you mean that they are more different than each other?
This just wasn't necessary. It'd be like saying "How come I can't 'sense' things in OoT? I want to learn scents and follow scent trails... I want to see ghosts..." It's just not applicable to this game's design.
Agreed, though I think TP's were more interestingly designed.
You have to stop looking for "equivalent" things in TP. *It's a different game* - why should there have to be a Shadow Temple equivalent?? I could just start rattling off things that TP does have that OoT doesn't, but it wouldn't make sense for me to do that as a criticism of OoT.
I disagree. You make a list, I'll make a list, and we'll compare.
What does this mean? What were you expecting them to do?
Again, if you're wanting TP to be like previous Zeldas, why not just go play the previous Zeldas?
Maybe it's not a requirement that a Zelda game have to have a stealth component? I dunno... maybe it's just possible...
~Cris
The problem is TP does not have enough new memorable tracks, and when they re-use OOT music it just feels like they're saying "HAY REMEMBER THIS?"BrandNew said:
I like it much more when they subtly reuse themes like the Dark World theme in Kakariko
I absolutely love the new Hyrule Field theme, Midna's Theme, some of the dungeon themes and the boss themes.
No commentBrandNew said:
I'm not comparing it to Wind WakerBrandNew said:
The bughunts are designed so you explore the new area before you encounter it in the light world, but it takes away the impact when you actually explore it in the light world with the proper music and the characters walking around and stuff.
It's like a mandatory spoiler :|
Yeah, that's good but what the **** is withBrandNew said:
giving me the Giant's Wallet AFTER collecting all the bugs?! You don't even need it then, it should be the halfway gift.
Yes, Wolf Link has more to do with the main story, but does it actually add that much to the game? Is it even as much fun as Young Link?BrandNew said:
With Young Link, the boomerang and slingshot did not go to waste like they did in TP, and the 7 year difference added a lot more depth to the gameplay, it added a lot to the backstory since you could see what happened to people after that 7 year gap (Dampe became a ghost, Hyrule moved to Kakariko, etc.) and your actions as Young Link became important as they would affect Adult Link's world and made for much more interesting gameplay. Exploring the differences between Young/Adult Link's world was awesome.
TP may be easier to me because I've matured but you have to agree that TP's dungeons are waaay too linear.BrandNew said:
Not very well, usually the chest containing the key would be right next to the door, and you wouldn't even have to do much to get itBrandNew said:
BrandNew said:
Let's say with the new art direction, I had big expectations
But Majora's whole Ikana region was death themed
Wind Waker's Earth Temple was moodier than
But Majora's whole Ikana region was death themed
Wind Waker's Earth Temple was moodier than
Arbiter
STAR game is awesome, especially the host and the girls <3BrandNew said:
It still isBrandNew said:
Obviously, but WHY does it have to be ALL at the start? I'd rather it be a more gradual experience through the game.crisdecuba said:
The beginning is so slow it puts people OFF Zelda, if I was not a Zelda fan, I could see myself getting bored.
I'm not saying it's not good, I'm saying it does not have the grandness that Ocarina has because these things are hidden from you. In Ocarina, you knew exactly what was at stake and it made the whole adventure and your actions seem more important.crisdecuba said:
So I should not be expecting the finale of TP to top Ocarina because it's different? Is that what you're saying?crisdecuba said:
And by the way, I think there was far more emotion when Saria said goodbye to Link on the Lost Woods bridge.
Hardly perfect, but that's subjective.crisdecuba said:
I know I've completed the game 2x from start to finish and Wind Waker's finale felt much more satisfying than TP'scrisdecuba said:
It's not the searching, it's just that they're boring and I'd rather be exploring the area in the light world, they end up dragging the experience down.crisdecuba said:
Also I am not confined to a wolf to find poes or golden bugs
I like what they've done with Wolf Link and even enjoyed it apart from the boring bughunts, but I feel the execution was more streamlined and added more to the game in Ocarina.crisdecuba said:
Good, one less thing to respond on, which means I can sleep earlier (it's 6:08am here)crisdecuba said:
Shadow Temple was one of my favourites in Ocarina, I was very disappointed there was no really creepy dungeon or really creepy areas in TP's Hyrule. The game is nowhere near as dark as people are saying.crisdecuba said:
This could actually be nostalgia talkingcrisdecuba said:I disagree. You make a list, I'll make a list, and we'll compare.
It means the huge world they've created has gone to waste. I expected with the amount of time they spent developing the game that there would be NPCs and sidequests galore.crisdecuba said:
Nintendo said they wanted to make the best Zelda game ever, trading quests have become a nice tradition in Zelda, and after being letdown by Wind Waker's atrocious Windfall decoration 'trading quest', it would've been nice as compensationcrisdecuba said:
No, but it makes TP's gameplay less diverse.crisdecuba said:Maybe it's not a requirement that a Zelda game have to have a stealth component? I dunno... maybe it's just possible...
So why force me to go there?Jason said:
It's tedious and unneccesary.
And I'm not sure I've spelt those two words corructly
For me, the reason I liked Ocarina of Time better is that TP feels like I've done most of it before.
It doesn't feel as fresh.
There were A LOT of parts in TP where I was "Holy F*** THIS IS WICKED!!"
But I mostly had the, been there done that sort of feel.
But don't get me wrong, TP is the best game I've played in the last 2-3 years.
Zelda's are by far the best single player video game experiences out there.
So TP ranks very high for me in the video game field.
It doesn't feel as fresh.
There were A LOT of parts in TP where I was "Holy F*** THIS IS WICKED!!"
But I mostly had the, been there done that sort of feel.
But don't get me wrong, TP is the best game I've played in the last 2-3 years.
Zelda's are by far the best single player video game experiences out there.
So TP ranks very high for me in the video game field.
It is definitely a toss up between Twilight and Majora's Mask for best zelda.
I can't wait for a zelda designed solely for the Wii. The controls in TP felt really good. I tried playing Wind Waker the other day and it felt awkward. Nintendo definately did a great job with the wiimote.
I can't wait for a zelda designed solely for the Wii. The controls in TP felt really good. I tried playing Wind Waker the other day and it felt awkward. Nintendo definately did a great job with the wiimote.
the_zombie_luke
Member
TP was almost better than Ocarina of Time for me, but the easy bosses drag it down. The dungeons were brilliant, but the bosses and most of the enemies were pushovers. I don't agree at all that TP is the best Zelda. It did a lot of things well, but there's no excitement in combat because you know nothing is going to kill you. I really don't understand why EAD did this. They got rid of the hand holding in the dungeons, and then go and make easy bosses. I've played RE4 over 10 times, and the bosses still kill me. I wanted bosses like that, not Wind Waker bosses again.
crisdecuba
Member
Different tastes, I guess. It wasn't slow to me and it served to endear me to the NPCs. And wouldn't it be hard to go *beyond* these basic mechanics if you were still stuck with introducing them later on in the game?Wii said:
Different tastes again - I prefer mystery over grandness, especially when the still shows itself later on as the story is revealed.
I thought we were talking about the Master Sword scene, not the finale, which I enjoyed much more in TP. A one-on-one sword fight with Ganon is much better than OoT's battle with the huge pig.
Even if we disagree, I can't see how there could be "far more" emotion in the Saria scene. For me, Saria's character was less developed, and therefore I cared less about her than I did with Ilia.
So you're basically saying you don't like the concept of exploring the twilight world since you'll explore the light world version as well. It wasn't boring to me at all. Most of the bugs had a little puzzle of sorts to solve in order to get them, and there was story progression as well during these times (remember finding the kids with the shaman in Kakariko?) Further, it helped you get used to the wolf abilities, which come into play in the dungeons later on as well.
Then you don't hate collectathons at all. You just don't like "being stuck as" the wolf. I enjoyed the wolf segments because they forced me to think differently in order to do what I wanted to do. It would have been really boring to have the wolf be so similar to Link.
What do you mean when you say "more streamlined?" Re: adding more to the game - not really. Young Link is like a gimped version of old Link and is almost forgotten in the second half of the game. The wolf, however, remains integral to the game throughout.
Is this a legitimate criticism, then? That the game didn't repeat a temple with a specific atmosphere that you liked?
Agreed.
Cool.
Ahh - gotcha. You wanted more side-quests and more involving NPCs.
Yeah, I feel about trading quests the same way you feel about the bug hunt sections.Nintendo said they wanted to make the best Zelda game ever, trading quests have become a nice tradition in Zelda, and after being letdown by Wind Waker's atrocious Windfall decoration 'trading quest', it would've been nice as compensation
In my opinion, in a good way - I disliked the stealth portions of Wind Waker and OoT.
Because it's not about "getting there." It's about working out how to find the buggers with your wolf abilities. Just little mini-puzzles, and they worked for me.So why force me to go there?
It's tedious and unneccesary.
And I'm not sure I've spelt those two words corructly
~Cris
Foreign Jackass
Member
One minor complaint : Rollball is the worst minigame in any Nintendo game ever.