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Official OS X 10.5 Leopard Launch Thread: Hopes, Fears, Botched Installs go here

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I am not an apple fan at all, I hate the pricing schemes etc; but OSX 10.4 is the best OS I've ever used, flatout embarasses Vista in terms of features and usability. If only I could get an OS as good as OSX on my x86 box.
 
bluemax said:
How much HDD does an archive install? I only have like 15GB left on my MBP...
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Leopard itself is 9GB. An archive install basically takes your system files and moves them to a folder and installs os x again.
 
Juice said:
Mine recognizes as such, but I have yet to find any software that actually can see it / use it. In fact, AFAIK there is still a Windows Vista "Problem" on my install that references a KB article basically stating that the iSight does nothing under Windows.

You know of any way to actually use the iSight in Vista?
Click to expand...

The first webcam app I tried it with, Windows Live Messenger, can see it and I'm guessing use it (I only downloaded messenger to see if the iSight was working). If you want to see if your driver is working properly download/install messenger and go to Tools -> Webcam settings... (if that doesn't work go to Tools -> Audio and video setup..., click next three times, and then select "Apple Built-in iSight").
 
Killthee said:
The first webcam app I tried it with, Windows Live Messenger, can see it and I'm guessing use it (I only downloaded messenger to see if the iSight was working). If you want to see if your driver is working properly download/install messenger and go to Tools -> Webcam settings... (if that doesn't work go to Tools -> Audio and video setup..., click next three times, and then select "Apple Built-in iSight").
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll be sure to try that later.

In other news: Road to Leopard has been updated with a new iChat 4.0 deposition. I'm really digging the ease with which a screen-sharing/document-sharing session can be started. This will make helping my wife/brother with their computers when I'm on the road infinitely easier: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/16/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_ichat_4_0.html
 
Juice said:
In other news: Road to Leopard has been updated with a new iChat 4.0 deposition. I'm really digging the ease with which a screen-sharing/document-sharing session can be started. This will make helping my wife/brother with their computers when I'm on the road infinitely easier: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/16/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_ichat_4_0.html
Click to expand...
I wish I knew people who had Macs and used iChat so I can try out it's webcam features LOL. They look cool and all in demos, but the people I know with Macs have either G3 and earlier machines, which are just too slow, or they don't use iChat. :/

But it's supposed to work fine with AIM right? I tried with someone who was using AIM in Windows and it just couldn't establish a connection. :S

koam said:
Well considering microsoft just now finished copying tiger OS, yes.
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IMO, they haven't quite caught up to Tiger yet, I think Tiger still beats it out. Also, I'm not sure about how new computer users might fare, but I find a lot of the settings that they moved around or attempted to make more user-friendly is just annoying as hell and drives me nuts sometimes. It's ridiculous trying to find out where they tucked settings that were once easy to find in XP. I never really had that problem with OSX, I found that I could locate most settings and things I was looking for relatively quickly when I was switching over from XP.
 
Looks like my 800MHz G4 iMac has gone as far as it can go.

I'm guessing the 867MHz in the system requirements is the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM?
 
hirokazu said:
IMO, they haven't quite caught up to Tiger yet, I think Tiger still beats it out. Also, I'm not sure about how new computer users might fare, but I find a lot of the settings that they moved around or attempted to make more user-friendly is just annoying as hell and drives me nuts sometimes. It's ridiculous trying to find out where they tucked settings that were once easy to find in XP. I never really had that problem with OSX, I found that I could locate most settings and things I was looking for relatively quickly when I was switching over from XP.
Click to expand...

I actually find Vista to be the least user friendly OS from MS in a long time. As a windows vet, it took me way too long to figure some stuff out cause they're so badly placed. I kinda enjoy Vista now that it's finally running properly but i would have loved to have bought a mac instead. The price difference between buying an imac and building my own pc was just too large.
 
Oxx said:
Looks like my 800MHz G4 iMac has gone as far as it can go.

I'm guessing the 867MHz in the system requirements is the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM?
Click to expand...


If tiger's any indication, Leopard's additions will bring older machines to a halt at initial release to a crawl. Spotlight was so leaky and resource intensive at 10.4.0 that I'm afraid to enable Time Machine on any of by older PPC Macs
 
koam said:
I actually find Vista to be the least user friendly OS from MS in a long time. As a windows vet, it took me way too long to figure some stuff out cause they're so badly placed. I kinda enjoy Vista now that it's finally running properly but i would have loved to have bought a mac instead. The price difference between buying an imac and building my own pc was just too large.
Click to expand...

Honestly, if you price it out iMacs are fully competitive. There are 2 issues though:

1. Will you use the stuff you are paying for?
2. Do you mind having a monitor tethered to your computer?
 
Juice said:
If tiger's any indication, Leopard's additions will bring older machines to a halt at initial release to a crawl. Spotlight was so leaky and resource intensive at 10.4.0 that I'm afraid to enable Time Machine on any of by older PPC Macs
Click to expand...

I'd hate Spotlight a whole lot less if they're just stop the live searching as you type. I believe they were implementing an option to disable that at some point, but I may very well have just dreamed that up.
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
How does that double-tap work? Does it work in Parallels/Bootcamp?
Click to expand...

Tap with 2 fingers and it registers as a right click.

Loading Parallels right now to confirm capabilities within.

Edit: Yep, works.
 
Man I can't wait for Leopard. Whenever I upgraded to Tiger, there was a definite performance boost, everything ran smoother and faster. Hopefully this is true with Leopard.

Also, I just upgraded from 1 to 3 GB of RAM and bought Adobe CS3 last week. Once I get Leopard, I'll feel so damn cutting edge.
 
Prospero said:
Yes--there has been for a couple of years now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's been built in since OS X came out (and was widely available via drivers for OS 9 even).

Way too many people confuse 1 button mouse with not having 2 button ability/functionality.
 
Killthee said:
It works for me on my MBP. Do you have the latest drivers?
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Yeahp. Yours does double tap? Mine can do double "click" with the button but not tap on the touchpad.
 
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/apples-got-a-new-13-inch-laptop-prepped-for-leopard-launch/

Engadget said:
Nothing like a wild and unsubstantiated Apple rumor to keep us entertained in the run up to Apple's Leopard launch on the 26th. The latest comes courtesy of TheStreet.com's Scott Moritz, who says Apple will have a new 13-inch ultraportable laptop ready to coincide with Leopard's launch party, and the laptop will be aluminum like the MacBook Pros. Unfortunately, not only do we have zero idea where he got this information, it's also unclear from his statement if this will be a refresh to the existing MacBook line, an additional tier of "Pro" ultraportable Apple laptop, or maybe that "Slim" unit we've been hearing about. We've got our fingers crossed for the latter options, but the MacBook could certainly use a bit of TLC, so either way it wouldn't be a total loss.
Click to expand...

I hope this is true. The only reason I keep my 12" Powerbook around is because of it's awesome size. I'd definitely ditch this bitch and go Pro if this were a real thing.
 
I know I was using native 2nd mouse button functionality all the way back to the OS 8's.

I'm not sure if I'll pick this up or not. I only have an ibook G4 with 512MB RAM, and being right at the recommended ram limit isn't a happy place to be. Maybe if I can find more ram I'll consider it, but unfortunately, the PC2700 SODIMM's are like 2 - 3 times the cost of the newer faster laptop ram.
 
RevenantKioku said:
But it doesn't give the window focus, right?
Click to expand...
You can set windows to focus on mouseover in KDE. KDE's very customizeable without resorting to hacks or additional apps.

gray_fox224 said:
makes me wanna a mac...does this top Vista in terms of features?
Click to expand...
As a Vista user, i'd say Tiger pretty much tops or at least matches Vista. In terms of interface and usability, Tiger (and Leopard) definitely tops Vista. Take Leopard's Time Machine. Even though Vista's "Previous Versions" feature is basically the same, it's "hidden" in the properties window of files and folders. i doubt most people even bother looking at the properties of files. Hell, i even once forgot about it when i could've used it to retrieve some files.
 
giga said:
Yeahp. Yours does double tap? Mine can do double "click" with the button but not tap on the touchpad.
Click to expand...

My bad, my MBP only does double click under Windows. For some weird reason I read double tap as double click ^_^;
 
Juice said:
If tiger's any indication, Leopard's additions will bring older machines to a halt at initial release to a crawl. Spotlight was so leaky and resource intensive at 10.4.0 that I'm afraid to enable Time Machine on any of by older PPC Macs
Click to expand...

I probably should start saving my pennies for a new Mac then.

Even if 10.5 isn't exactly a quantum leap it would certainly be a lot easier to own a computer that has USB2.0 and decent wireless internet options.

Shame, I wanted to ride the old table lamp for another year.
 
Ugh. Just bought a new MacBook after my PowerBook G4 died last week. Returning it to BestBuy tomorrow because the speakers are screwed up, but I've noticed a few irritating glitches in Tiger that weren't around on the previous version of OS X I was running. The display dimming glitch makes me want to slap my laptop, and according to Apple there's no real fix for it. Small hope of that problem disappearing in the replacement MacBook I'll pick up tomorrow, but things like that might be cured in Leopard. I don't really need any of the big upgrades, so I wouldn't upgrade from Tiger as a matter of course. But paying a little more next month for revised hardware equipped with 10.5 might be worth my while. I'd love to see a larger screen size without the gloss coat for example. I miss the G4 hardware, but I don't need the power of a Pro for the asking price.

I've scoured the internets for info on the new MacBooks or even a simple release date, but besides "October 26 = OS X 10.5; new MacBooks are coming in November" Apple seems to be keeping everyone in the dark.

So I'm looking for opinions from those with more current Mac knowledge than I possess: would you suggest I wait around and somehow survive the next few weeks with some kind of temporary computing solution so I can pick up the revised MacBook pre-installed with Leopard; or do I grab a straight up replacement so I can move on with my life, learn to deal with the Tiger glitches and hope I don't miss the any hardware upgrades that are added to the MacBook line next month? Any rumours on changes to the MacBook line, or ideas of how much they'll jack up the price?
 
Oxx said:
I probably should start saving my pennies for a new Mac then.

Even if 10.5 isn't exactly a quantum leap it would certainly be a lot easier to own a computer that has USB2.0 and decent wireless internet options.

Shame, I wanted to ride the old table lamp for another year.
Click to expand...
Ubuntu says hi.
 
I heard from someone that at a normal launch they will have some sort of sale. Is this true?

Someone told me launch parties at apple stores often time have a 10% sale.
 
Teddman said:
I've never been through a major Mac OS X version up before, how does it usually go?
Click to expand...
The only apps that suffer in a major OS X upgrade are those that write files directly into the System folder for enhanced operation. Otherwise, the whole thing is downright painless. One of the reasons Apple folks think Windows is a joke is for this exact reason. Vista only made this even MORE apparent.

typo said:
I will probably have to pick this up for my Macbook. Time Machine seems to be the shit.
Click to expand...
I was sold on Time Machine when I found out I can use an AirPort Disk to do it.
 
RevenantKioku said:
But it doesn't give the window focus, right?
Click to expand...

You can set the current window to transparency in Compiz when you have the mouse hovering on another window and scroll all you like.
I use it all the time for things like writing assignments and commands.
 
Since my current HDD is almost full, I was thinking about purchasing a new drive for my Macbook. Can someone recommend a site with some decent prices on notebook SATA drives?
 
aoi tsuki said:
Even though Vista's "Previous Versions" feature is basically the same, it's "hidden" in the properties window of files and folders. i doubt most people even bother looking at the properties of files. Hell, i even once forgot about it when i could've used it to retrieve some files.
Click to expand...

The backup features in Vista, (however poorly they're exposed), are actually a superset of what's in Time Machine.

There are four related features in Vista for backup, and they are all built on the same basic technology: snapshots (which won't be available in OSX until ZFS is done).

A snapshot is a block differential image of your file system. Basically when you take a snapshot, the system preserves the file system, as it was at the instant the snapshot was taken. Any modifications to the file system are redirected to a diff area. You can have many (hundreds) of snapshots, and they only take as much disk space as the sectors on the disk that have changed since they were created. They are saved as long as you have enough space allocated for them. They're automatically deleted when you run out of space.

The four Vista backup features that rely on snapshots are:

1. System Restore. This is a big 'UNDO' for your OS. It creates a snapshot every night to cache old images of your entire system on your hard disk.

2. Previous Versions. This is a big 'UNDO' for your user files. It uses the same snapshots that System Restore takes, and lets you restore specific files from them.

3. File Backup. This basically takes the snapshots used above, scans them for user files, and copies those to a backup hard disk or optical media. This is the closest analog to Time Machine there is in Vista.

4. Complete PC Backup. This basically takes the snapshots used above, and copies the entire thing to a backup hard disk or optical media, sector for sector. This is like Ghost.
 
Juice said:
Security said:
Library Randomization
Defend against attackers with no effort at all. One of the most common security breaches occurs when a hacker’s code calls a known memory address to have a system function execute malicious code. Leopard frustrates this plan by relocating system libraries to one of several thousand possible randomly assigned addresses.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty clever workaround to buffer overflows. One can take down the machine, but it'd be much harder to reliably take it over if there were ever an exploit.
Click to expand...

This feature is already in Vista.
 
Terrell said:
I was sold on Time Machine when I found out I can use an AirPort Disk to do it.
Click to expand...
The current transfer rate for an Airport Disk tops out around 1.1 to 1.5MB a second... Fast enough for photos, documents, even music, but might be rough when backing up gigs of data.
 
Juice said:
iSight working in Boot Camp? Ten bucks says this is actually a typo. But hey, it'd be a nice add.
Click to expand...

Gimme 10 bucks :)


You mean when I unplug the ethernet cable from my already-connected-by-Airport from my Airport Extreme, Finder won't freak out for 120 seconds before AFP times out and lets me use my computer again? NICE.
Click to expand...

It still freaks out, but in its own thread :)
 
Teddman said:
The current transfer rate for an Airport Disk tops out around 1.1 to 1.5MB a second... Fast enough for photos, documents, even music, but might be rough when backing up gigs of data.
Click to expand...

Yeah but you're not really going to be backing up a huge amount of data often aside from the very first time. After that it'll only backup the files that have been modified.
 
Teddman said:
The current transfer rate for an Airport Disk tops out around 1.1 to 1.5MB a second... Fast enough for photos, documents, even music, but might be rough when backing up gigs of data.
Click to expand...
The backup runs in the background, and I can stop the backup and resume it whenever I please, so I don't see the problem. One less cable to my notebook. And even though it's never been explicitly mentioned, seems like you can partition a drive and use one partition for Time Machine and free up the other. Which rocks, since I got a 500GB external and don't need nearly that much for a backup.
 
Not so happy and impressed by Vista, Leopard is for me (together with Ilife 08) the switch reason to MAC.
Not using my PC lately for gaming anymore, so the door is open for Mac.

Can't wait.
 
Terrell said:
The backup runs in the background, and I can stop the backup and resume it whenever I please, so I don't see the problem. One less cable to my notebook. And even though it's never been explicitly mentioned, seems like you can partition a drive and use one partition for Time Machine and free up the other. Which rocks, since I got a 500GB external and don't need nearly that much for a backup.
Click to expand...

That is not a very good idea, if your internal hard drive dies you lose everything (your data and your backups).

It's better than having no backups at all though, obviously.
 
Sallokin said:
Since my current HDD is almost full, I was thinking about purchasing a new drive for my Macbook. Can someone recommend a site with some decent prices on notebook SATA drives?
Click to expand...

I recently upgraded the HDD in my macbook. As far as top of the line go, there's either 250GB 5400rpm HDDs from Samsing and WD or the 200GB 7200RPMr from Hitachi.
I first got the Samsung (model HM250JI), which turned out to have a bug in the firmware that rendered it incompatible with the MacBook, forcing me to send it back. I think it's sorted out now, but beware!
Instead, I got the Hitachi and I'm kind of glad I did, because it's so much faster than the Toshiba 5400RPMr that came with my MacBook and it has made it that much more pleasant to use.
Here's a site that has reviews the WD and the Hitachi and other HDDs. They also have the best prices in the US (which always seems to be newegg).

http://www.storagereview.com/
 
Sean said:
That is not a very good idea, if your internal hard drive dies you lose everything (your data and your backups).

It's better than having no backups at all though, obviously.
Click to expand...
I was talking about partitioning my external hard drive connected to AirPort, but I understand and appreciate the concern.
 
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