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Official Shiren the Wanderer (Wii) NA Thread
- Thread starter Volcynika
- Start date
long-time rogueliker, first time mysterious dungeoner.
bought even though i've got no time to play it (but don't trust it to be available when i do).
played a bit.
i've got time to play it now
i *love* the suspend save. played for literally 5 minutes this morning, with an easy quit-and-save at the end. so good.
map position is annoying, and having to go into the config menu (i think?) to turn it on/off is frustrating.
remote vertical config seems really awkward/unusable... is there a good reason why they didn't make B correlate to 1? i may give it another try (as I'd love to play that way if possible), but it seemed either poorly thought-out, or (possibly) just victim of the lack of accessible buttons... remote horizontal seems to work pretty well so far...
some monsters are going to die... some loot is going to be appropriated.
bought even though i've got no time to play it (but don't trust it to be available when i do).
played a bit.
i've got time to play it now
i *love* the suspend save. played for literally 5 minutes this morning, with an easy quit-and-save at the end. so good.
map position is annoying, and having to go into the config menu (i think?) to turn it on/off is frustrating.
remote vertical config seems really awkward/unusable... is there a good reason why they didn't make B correlate to 1? i may give it another try (as I'd love to play that way if possible), but it seemed either poorly thought-out, or (possibly) just victim of the lack of accessible buttons... remote horizontal seems to work pretty well so far...
some monsters are going to die... some loot is going to be appropriated.
and rewindable. and re-playable at a later time.slayn said:
for wii games, the ability to execute disliked/random npcs using the pointer and b-trigger during cut scenes would be a "nice to have" feature.
they can try and fight back, i suppose... though i'm not sure why they'd bother. i've got *two* clubs (this is how you know that i am serious business).LordGek said:
I love how the Portal Dungeon is (If you enter without items) like a card game, with the items being the cards, and, of course, random. You decide how to play your cards, with different results on each game.
However, sometimes i wonder if the game is making fun of me. For example, today i reached floor 5 and i was starving because i didn´t found a single riceball in the previous floors. I had a light scroll, so i used it because i would die of hunger before being able to explore the entire floor. For my surprise it was a small floor, with only 4 items, and guess what? 3 of them were riceballs :lol
However, sometimes i wonder if the game is making fun of me. For example, today i reached floor 5 and i was starving because i didn´t found a single riceball in the previous floors. I had a light scroll, so i used it because i would die of hunger before being able to explore the entire floor. For my surprise it was a small floor, with only 4 items, and guess what? 3 of them were riceballs :lol
DQ Hero said:
Heck yeah, your pack IS your deck and if you go in empty handed it is hoping you can make do with whatever you find in random booster packs!
This is also why my favorite dungeons in this game are the ones that reset you to level 1 and won't let you bring anything in. In such cases it is a battle for survival, not just a tedious exercise of seeing if you can find a few more revival herbs.
You've given me a cool idea. I think next Portal run I'll go in with extremely minimal equipment, if for no other reason it will be easier to pull more stuff out (even if just to sell in the end).
robotzombie
Member
What does the +1, +2, etc. on equipment actually do? Does it increase the attack power/defense? Because the str stat seems to stay the same as I'm upgrading stuff. Or does it only upgrade on certain level ups?
Sorry if I'm being unclear. I'm trying to level up the demon sword/shield and i see a demon sword in the shop thats +3 and its still only 4 str
Sorry if I'm being unclear. I'm trying to level up the demon sword/shield and i see a demon sword in the shop thats +3 and its still only 4 str
robotzombie
Member
Thanks! One more question, do resonating items have to be at the same level in order to level up together? Or can you have like a Demon shield +4 and sword +2 and they will both still level up?
robotzombie said:
I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if they are even but it still isn't clear how their leveling works, best guess so far is once you've killed so many folk. I think they move up together but others have claimed to see them move up independently (like the sword might count hits and the shield counting how many times you've been hit).
jaundicejuice
Member
My pre-ordered copy finally arrived, pity I can't grab it until Wednesday, along with Heavy Rain.
Dineren said:
None that I know of, the ability to fully control or at least substantially dictate your partner's actions is pretty unique to this game. I'd say Pokemon Mystery Dungeon would have been the closest to this kind of team control but, well, that's Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (while a clever combination of the Mystery Dungeon and Pokemon series of games, I just don't think these two franchises worked that well together).
ElectricThunder
Member
Dineren said:
It is getting to a point where you can rather substantially control party members and whatnot in Triangle Wizard, especially so when the next version is released in the near future. Otherwise, Gek is pretty much on the money that PMD is the next closest.
DQ Hero said:
1) Put an item in the orb (and remember it can't be up against a wall, it needs to have free spaces surrounding it).
2) Take a step away (an empty space between yourself and the orb).
3) Read the Barrier Scroll.
4) Now you...wait and guard the area (anybody, even you crossing the barrier will break the "spell").
5) Ideally you'll probably want to stand guard in the room (hit A+B to let time pass) and every so often you should get a "The Dragon Orbs Pulsate" (or something like that) and with each of those pulses the following things are possible (assuming it was a weapon submitted):
A) The weapon will get a +1.
B) The weapon will get blessed.
C) The weapon will have the orb's element infused into it (extra damage to all creatures but ones of that element, can even be on your weapon multiple times for a bigger effect).
D) Nothing.
So ideally you want to set some Dragon Orb thing early on in exploring a level so you can get several "pulsations" before being forced to move onto the next level.
It's the exact same idea as above with shields but with other items it goes:
A) The item's number will be increased if a stack item (spells, missiles, gold).
B) The item's charge will be increased if a wand or jar.
C) The item will be blessed.
D) The item will be cloned (either the same exact item or a like item, like maybe another herb if the original item is a herb).
E) Item might be transformed (somebody mentioned putting a Jar of Blessing on an orb and having it turn into a Jar of Holding).
F) Nothing.
So this whole thing can be a bit maddening as the only way you can CHECK what has been done so far (other than cloned items which you'll see adjacent to the orb) is to break the barrier and find out which will screw up the whole process.
DQ Hero said:Thanks LordGek, i was reading the barrier scrolls without taking a step away. Now i have to find barrier scrolls and repeat the level
It MAY even be that you can just be in the middle of the room and barriers will form around all orbs in the room, I'm not sure, but I definitely know being two spaces away (i.e. a space in between) works fine and avoids the annoying teleportation out of the room.
Started playing this last night (was an Amazon order), have completed seven dungeons so far without touching the Portal one or replaying levels. Have not died yet, although I had to use full control on the Popster Tank floors and I used up most of the healing I had saved against the Catfish and Tengu. That at least proves the game is designed that it could all be done on a single pass, at least to that point. I haven't even burnt the Revival Herb I got from depositing money in the bank yet.
The way the game (and most Japanese roguelikes) is designed, monsters of linearly increasing difficulty are worth exponentially increasing experience. The main dungeons appear to feature many floors with the same kinds of monsters appearing, which slows player advancement. In Shiren DS, you are given tougher monsters faster, which means you gain levels much faster. In my opinion this is part of the thrill of the game, and it may explain why I am a little bored with this one, although having to play carefully against the bosses and Popster Tanks was somewhat interesting at least.
Have not found any dragon orbs yet. Most of the items I've seen have been pretty lacklustre, with Recovery staves being the main new item of interest.
According to the Wii play time record, I've spent 5:39 on the game so far. I gave up on Pokemon Mystery Dungeon from having to play countless easy levels before the good ones showed up, and I'm starting to get that feeling here as well. I don't like the feeling that I have to tithe time to the game in order to get to the good stuff.
Still a relatively weak Shiren game beats most other games any day of the week.
The way the game (and most Japanese roguelikes) is designed, monsters of linearly increasing difficulty are worth exponentially increasing experience. The main dungeons appear to feature many floors with the same kinds of monsters appearing, which slows player advancement. In Shiren DS, you are given tougher monsters faster, which means you gain levels much faster. In my opinion this is part of the thrill of the game, and it may explain why I am a little bored with this one, although having to play carefully against the bosses and Popster Tanks was somewhat interesting at least.
Have not found any dragon orbs yet. Most of the items I've seen have been pretty lacklustre, with Recovery staves being the main new item of interest.
According to the Wii play time record, I've spent 5:39 on the game so far. I gave up on Pokemon Mystery Dungeon from having to play countless easy levels before the good ones showed up, and I'm starting to get that feeling here as well. I don't like the feeling that I have to tithe time to the game in order to get to the good stuff.
Still a relatively weak Shiren game beats most other games any day of the week.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
FYI, installing the game to a USB drive doesn't seem to help the lag issues with transitioning into houses/certain boss fights/monster houses in dungeons with lighting effects/etc.
At least these aren't things you run into all too often, but it's sorta ridiculous that such a low-def game suffers from these kinds of problems.
At least these aren't things you run into all too often, but it's sorta ridiculous that such a low-def game suffers from these kinds of problems.
It's not just ninja girl, its:
Dungeon goodness > STUPID ANIMAL SPIRIT INTRIGUE > dungeon goodness > AGAIN WITH THE ANIMALS > dungeon goodness > SO WHAT IF A PARTY MEMBER IS A TRAITOR PAGE PAGE PAGE > dungeon goodness > I WENT BACK IN TIME HOORAY GET BACK TO THE > dungeon goodness > ARGH SUDDEN YUFFIE-WANNABE VILLAIN KILL IT KILL IT WITH FIRE
If the dungeon sequences were longer it might be easier to deal with. I've yet to encounter a dungeon longer than, say, 11 floors?
And none of the storytelling scenes is telling any story worth the time. The overall plot, concerning a main character who is a reincarnation after a thousand years of a prior hero, has been done about 493 times before. The idea that this thing is somehow infecting other things? 629 times before, and it was annoying the first! Saving the world? I lost count.
These things are the reason I fell away from JRPGs in general, when I came to realize that it's not really great storytelling, that all the games draw from this same stupid handful of plots. Other games, like Mario platformers, can get away with it because they're not games that offers storytelling as a primary draw. That's actually why I'm prepared to give Shiren a pass on it too, you don't actually have to care why he's traipsing through the dungeon. @s did it for decades when the only motivation was greed, and it was fine by me. (Greed and saving princesses are actually good reasons; they're elemental.)
Anyway, It's still annoying when it comes up. On the plus side, I've found from reading around (since I still haven't died) that if you lose a dungeon in the main quest, you don't keep the experience you got in the place, which helps to guard against grinding unless you really want to do it by replaying old dungeons. So that's nice at least.
Dungeon goodness > STUPID ANIMAL SPIRIT INTRIGUE > dungeon goodness > AGAIN WITH THE ANIMALS > dungeon goodness > SO WHAT IF A PARTY MEMBER IS A TRAITOR PAGE PAGE PAGE > dungeon goodness > I WENT BACK IN TIME HOORAY GET BACK TO THE > dungeon goodness > ARGH SUDDEN YUFFIE-WANNABE VILLAIN KILL IT KILL IT WITH FIRE
If the dungeon sequences were longer it might be easier to deal with. I've yet to encounter a dungeon longer than, say, 11 floors?
And none of the storytelling scenes is telling any story worth the time. The overall plot, concerning a main character who is a reincarnation after a thousand years of a prior hero, has been done about 493 times before. The idea that this thing is somehow infecting other things? 629 times before, and it was annoying the first! Saving the world? I lost count.
These things are the reason I fell away from JRPGs in general, when I came to realize that it's not really great storytelling, that all the games draw from this same stupid handful of plots. Other games, like Mario platformers, can get away with it because they're not games that offers storytelling as a primary draw. That's actually why I'm prepared to give Shiren a pass on it too, you don't actually have to care why he's traipsing through the dungeon. @s did it for decades when the only motivation was greed, and it was fine by me. (Greed and saving princesses are actually good reasons; they're elemental.)
Anyway, It's still annoying when it comes up. On the plus side, I've found from reading around (since I still haven't died) that if you lose a dungeon in the main quest, you don't keep the experience you got in the place, which helps to guard against grinding unless you really want to do it by replaying old dungeons. So that's nice at least.
I´m dying very MUCH in this game, but at least i learn different things everytime i fall.
The last one: Last floor, critical attack from enemy, i´m dead. Haha, but no problem, i have a revival herb. GAME OVER.
Tip of the day: Revival herbs doesn´t work in jars.
That was a painful death, i lost my first fusion item
The last one: Last floor, critical attack from enemy, i´m dead. Haha, but no problem, i have a revival herb. GAME OVER.
Tip of the day: Revival herbs doesn´t work in jars.
That was a painful death, i lost my first fusion item
I lost one at the end of Interior, and I am feeling cheated. Here's why.
First, unlike Shiren DS, the rules change on boss fights. The game pulls the "bosses are special" trick and makes it so that pretty much only "normal" attacks work on them. No tricks. Which makes boss fights a lot less interesting than the main game, which is about using your resources and your wits to get out of trouble. You pretty much go the trade blows route with them, with the only tricks you get those that enhance your own characters.
Second, this fight itself seems to be a puzzle fight more than a defeat-the-enemies thing. Or so it seems, the main boss seems to be impossible to hit with normal attacks too. There seem to be switches in the arena, or something, that need to be pressed. Or something. There are three special spots on the ground. My assumption is that someone needs to be standing on all three at the same time... but only one of the three made a sound when stepped on. Anyway, I was unable to get someone on all three before Shiren ran out of hit points.
The result of all this is that I feel greatly annoyed since I have to figure out an obnoxious puzzle WHILE avoiding attacks, and fighting back the enemies that I can fight against. This is normal-RPG design, which gets away with those tricks because hey, if it's unfair, you can always reload! This is one of the less discussed reasons that most games have shied away from permadeath -- you have to design your puzzles a lot better if the player must have a reasonable expectation of passing them the first time.
So, this is another stroke against the game, in my view. Maybe if there is an obvious solution to the puzzle that I missed I might be able to chalk it up to my playing skills, but I'll have to figure it out first to say for sure.
First, unlike Shiren DS, the rules change on boss fights. The game pulls the "bosses are special" trick and makes it so that pretty much only "normal" attacks work on them. No tricks. Which makes boss fights a lot less interesting than the main game, which is about using your resources and your wits to get out of trouble. You pretty much go the trade blows route with them, with the only tricks you get those that enhance your own characters.
Second, this fight itself seems to be a puzzle fight more than a defeat-the-enemies thing. Or so it seems, the main boss seems to be impossible to hit with normal attacks too. There seem to be switches in the arena, or something, that need to be pressed. Or something. There are three special spots on the ground. My assumption is that someone needs to be standing on all three at the same time... but only one of the three made a sound when stepped on. Anyway, I was unable to get someone on all three before Shiren ran out of hit points.
The result of all this is that I feel greatly annoyed since I have to figure out an obnoxious puzzle WHILE avoiding attacks, and fighting back the enemies that I can fight against. This is normal-RPG design, which gets away with those tricks because hey, if it's unfair, you can always reload! This is one of the less discussed reasons that most games have shied away from permadeath -- you have to design your puzzles a lot better if the player must have a reasonable expectation of passing them the first time.
So, this is another stroke against the game, in my view. Maybe if there is an obvious solution to the puzzle that I missed I might be able to chalk it up to my playing skills, but I'll have to figure it out first to say for sure.
Cleared the main story last night at roughly 21 hrs played. 0 defeats, and only took portal trips when new floors were added, so at 5,10,15,20, and 30. Had a paired sword/shield (begins with a g and escapes me at the moment) Sword was +26 (rust/metal seals) shield was +16 or so (rust/diet/blast seals) sleepless/calm shinobi/security armbands for gear on Shiren.
Hardest section of the game was some of the intermediate sections of the karakuri palace at the end of the Hourai kingdom. Namely the interior and treasure room. My point closest to defeat came upon stumbling into a monster nest filled with tigers and tanks. I should've known better and just disengaged the room completely but instead tryed to clear it out completely. After creating a few super tanks I withdrew (somehow I didn't get thrown father into the room by tigers) and made a hasty retreat to the next floor.
Currently in the middle of a Bufu cave run and can't wait to tackle some more of the bonus dungeons.
Hardest section of the game was some of the intermediate sections of the karakuri palace at the end of the Hourai kingdom. Namely the interior and treasure room. My point closest to defeat came upon stumbling into a monster nest filled with tigers and tanks. I should've known better and just disengaged the room completely but instead tryed to clear it out completely. After creating a few super tanks I withdrew (somehow I didn't get thrown father into the room by tigers) and made a hasty retreat to the next floor.
Currently in the middle of a Bufu cave run and can't wait to tackle some more of the bonus dungeons.
I Push Fat Kids said:
It's the game's bizarre tip of the hat to fans of Shiren DS who like their guy's experience level reset on every run.
It is a side dungeon you can take Shiren on (no partners in this one) to kick a little butt and hopefully restock some supplies (food, arrows, spells, etc.) for your characters making the main story run.
Initially it is a quick 5 level dungeon but as you get further in the main story, this little side dungeon gets longer and longer with each new set of 5 floors having even better and better loot.
Also, once you get to the point where it is 15 floors deep, you'll meet with everybody's favorite "Mixers" (these big yellow guys with blue baseball caps that you can toss two items to have them melded together). The catch being that depending on the power of the items thrown in his belly, the mixer will get stronger (do more damage) and since he can catch anything, if you try shooting him with arrows or throwing spells at him he'll simply swallow them up (well at least the first two things thrown at him).
Make it to the current bottom floor of this side dungeon and your experience will be restored to whatever it was before you went on this side quest with all of the loot you found down there still in your pack.
Still working through it, not wanting to write too much here since I am planning on writing a column about this, heh. I just finished the Valley of the Dead dungeon, my only main quest death so far continues to be that annoying puzzle boss at the top of the tower. I have had some boss close calls though.
I'll say that the ally system is really quite good. The only problem with it is it could be a little more obvious when teammates are going to run after a monster (the only indication of what they're thinking about doing is facing), but it hasn't been a big problem yet, and when it starts to happen a short stint in Full Control mode is usually enough to bring them under control.
The Portal dungeon is nicely challenging, although it is annoying to have to resort to it to load up on food and healing supplies when the main shop decides not to stock them.
Note: It seems depositing 10,000 in the bank for the first time is worth a free Joyous Herb.
I'll say that the ally system is really quite good. The only problem with it is it could be a little more obvious when teammates are going to run after a monster (the only indication of what they're thinking about doing is facing), but it hasn't been a big problem yet, and when it starts to happen a short stint in Full Control mode is usually enough to bring them under control.
The Portal dungeon is nicely challenging, although it is annoying to have to resort to it to load up on food and healing supplies when the main shop decides not to stock them.
Note: It seems depositing 10,000 in the bank for the first time is worth a free Joyous Herb.
JHarris said:
Yeah there are actually a number of these "Bank Account Milestones" (even if I wanted to be a big spoiler I can't recall the figures but usually nice round numbers).
While I haven't given up on this guy yet...I've been focusing most of my Shiren gaming on the latest entry, Shiren 4.
While the odds of us ever seeing here are low, it is at least cool that they've gone back to basics with one huge level resetting dungeon (mush like Shiren DS 1, however, you'll be traveling through indoor and outdoor locations).
While I don't mind losing the Dragon Orbs mechanic, it is kind of sad going back to brain dead undirectable NPC allies.
This entry to the series TWO biggest tweaks would have to be the introduction of Day/Night Cycles and Weapon/Shield Leveling.
Day/Night: Daytime is the same ol' game but once night falls things get very scary. You have very limited vision (unless you have some torches handy) and the beasties aren't just tougher (doing much more damage than their daytime counterparts), but IMMUNE to all standard physical and magical attacks (you can still confuse, paralyze, sleep, etc. but even a Fire Herb, an insanely beefed up weapon, or a Lightning Scroll will never do more than 1-2 damage). You aren't completely screwed, however, as you'll learn a number of special Night Techniques (basically spells but you can only use them at night) which you can use to take them out. The catch here, however, is as powerful as these spells are, you can only use them 8 times per level. Recklessly use up all of your tricks while the stairs are on the other side of the dungeon? You'd best figure out some way to lay low until dawn. If the monsters weren't already nasty enough during the night, they also all have a bad case of "Kingy" (remember the guys from Shiren DS 1 that would just as happily fight other monsters leveling up in the process). While having them fight each other might in some ways work to your advantage realize that whomever wins the fight will not only be tougher but completely healed in the leveling up process (thankfully, the victorious monsters will get leveled up but not evolved into later forms, so while that may be a 10th level Dragon Welp chasing you down the hall, at least he isn't an Arc Dragon or something after all of those level ups).
Weapon/Shield Leveling: Now even that cheesy club might become a less pathetic weapon. Hit enough baddies with that weapon or get hit by enough while wielding that shield it will level up getting a point or two to its base value, a higher enchantment capacity, and gain more ability slots (the days of unlimited abilities on a weapon/shield like Shiren DS 1 are long gone...or are they?). Going hand in hand with this ability to level your weapons and shield is the fact that you can get your favorite weapon and shield registered/tagged. For a fee, even if later knocked down or the weapon knocked into a bottomless pit, come to this one building in the second village to retrieve it (again, of course, for a hefty fee). While I'm not sure if this tagging is deactivated if you meld it into another item, melding other items INTO IT is definitely permitted so if you registered a pitiful little basic bronze sword that later has become some big leveled up bronze sword with a bucket of cool abilities, whatever it was when you last saw it will be there waiting for you. I'm not sure if you can have more than a single weapon and shield registered at any given point. Finally worth noting, that ol' favorite anti-theft shield has been re-tooled in this incarnation with it being broken down at least to a "Anti-Money Theft" and an "Anti-Item Theft" (if may even be more specific than that).
Regarding Dragon Orbs and those Shiren 4 features:
Something that has been an emerging craw-sticker for me for JRPGs in general (but not just them) has been this plethora of weird little features that exist but have little interest in simulation. All games are highly abstract of course, but most of them seek to not venture out into whole cloth territory when they create new features.
For example. The day/night system in Shiren 4, yeah, that's interesting, it makes a kind of sense... wait, monsters become all but invulnerable at night? What the heck? I guess nocturnal predators must have an unusually hard time of things in this land!
But Shiren can hurt them with special night-time moves? Huh, where did he learn these? How come they've never had to come into play before? Probably because of some evil force or something. Because just trying to survive through a difficult dungeon filled with tough monsters isn't enough to keep the kids interested these days? And he can only use them eight times? Sure, there's probably valid gameplay reasons for that, but eight times? I don't know, that is starting to seem less like a simulation of a guy trying to survive a tough dungeon and more like design wankery.
And how does using a weapon many times make it stronger? The workings of entropy pretty much demand the opposite, does it not? Sure, orbs and seals and magic and insane wizards and all that, but on the other hand, verisimilitude and realism.
Further... one of the cool things about the first Shiren was there was a universality about it. Sure, these were specific NPCs in there you could talk to and quests to advance, but overall you were left to get through it on your own, and could even ignore all that if you wanted. And there is no evil world-conquering force to defeat either! I always name my character Rodney because it is fun, for me, to picture the same guy from Rogue having moved to medieval Japan to beat up monsters.
That is part of the charm of this kind of game, being able to read your own motives into the character and story. That is the whole purpose of not having the main character talk, after all, obnoxious weasel sidekick notwithstanding. The more we find out about Shiren, and the more the scenario writer decides to tell the player what he's feeling, the less viable that kind of player inclusion becomes. Shiren Wii, by giving your guy an actual past, abandons that.
Something that has been an emerging craw-sticker for me for JRPGs in general (but not just them) has been this plethora of weird little features that exist but have little interest in simulation. All games are highly abstract of course, but most of them seek to not venture out into whole cloth territory when they create new features.
For example. The day/night system in Shiren 4, yeah, that's interesting, it makes a kind of sense... wait, monsters become all but invulnerable at night? What the heck? I guess nocturnal predators must have an unusually hard time of things in this land!
But Shiren can hurt them with special night-time moves? Huh, where did he learn these? How come they've never had to come into play before? Probably because of some evil force or something. Because just trying to survive through a difficult dungeon filled with tough monsters isn't enough to keep the kids interested these days? And he can only use them eight times? Sure, there's probably valid gameplay reasons for that, but eight times? I don't know, that is starting to seem less like a simulation of a guy trying to survive a tough dungeon and more like design wankery.
And how does using a weapon many times make it stronger? The workings of entropy pretty much demand the opposite, does it not? Sure, orbs and seals and magic and insane wizards and all that, but on the other hand, verisimilitude and realism.
Further... one of the cool things about the first Shiren was there was a universality about it. Sure, these were specific NPCs in there you could talk to and quests to advance, but overall you were left to get through it on your own, and could even ignore all that if you wanted. And there is no evil world-conquering force to defeat either! I always name my character Rodney because it is fun, for me, to picture the same guy from Rogue having moved to medieval Japan to beat up monsters.
That is part of the charm of this kind of game, being able to read your own motives into the character and story. That is the whole purpose of not having the main character talk, after all, obnoxious weasel sidekick notwithstanding. The more we find out about Shiren, and the more the scenario writer decides to tell the player what he's feeling, the less viable that kind of player inclusion becomes. Shiren Wii, by giving your guy an actual past, abandons that.
JHarris said:
At least as far as the Night Magic, there is all sorts of explanation (I'm assuming it has something to do with this strange magical island you've become ship wrecked at) but all I can do is play the system, I know nothing about the story behind the whys or how since I can't read Japanese but the game has lots of dialog about this new mechanic, beyond simply the nuts and bolts of it, but I can't follow it).
It is a little gimmicky, to be sure, but is a cute way to keep you on your toes and makes for a fun replacement to the old Shiren Wind. Go ahead and just camp on a level but living through multiple nights with only your 8 spell uses (only restocked if you go down stairs, die, or have a special scroll to reload these spells) will undoubtedly prove pretty nasty.
Monsters can damage other monsters just fine here..but yeah, I'm not sure I get the logic behind old MAGIC (Lightning Scrolls and Zappy Wands) not working.
Shiren has never exactly striven to be a realistic "simulation" game. We are talking about a series where there are monsters who can somehow change your items into riceballs. Not just rice, but prepared riceballs!JHarris said:
I did kind of prefer the story from the first game though.
I have to give it to Chunsoft that all of the DS entries in the series, at least, might have a cute story but not the CUTSCENE BEFORE AND AFTER ALL 30 BOSS FIGHTS (and some more in between dungeons).
Sure, in Shiren DS 4 you had to sit through a bit of a cutscene to start the game of how Shiren is shipwrecked on some strange tropical island, but that was it besides a small handful of other quick little ones (10-20 seconds) introducing a new ally or maybe hitting a new area in the dungeon (so far in the 20+ levels of the main dungeon's 30+ levels, there have been 2 of these). I think the cinematics in Shiren Wii are well done for the most part but, GAH, the beauty of the Shiren series, I always felt, was it just kept things simple and streamlined and epic cutscenes really fark that flow up IMHO.
There is absolutely no logic in a weapon or shield leveling up but, I think I get what is really abstractly symbolized here, it isn't the weapon that is leveling up but Shiren's initmate understanding of that specific weapon...although if this were the case wouldn't any Katana you find instantly become a level 4 Katana since you're so familiar with Katanas (so the analogy doesn't hold up)?
Sure, in Shiren DS 4 you had to sit through a bit of a cutscene to start the game of how Shiren is shipwrecked on some strange tropical island, but that was it besides a small handful of other quick little ones (10-20 seconds) introducing a new ally or maybe hitting a new area in the dungeon (so far in the 20+ levels of the main dungeon's 30+ levels, there have been 2 of these). I think the cinematics in Shiren Wii are well done for the most part but, GAH, the beauty of the Shiren series, I always felt, was it just kept things simple and streamlined and epic cutscenes really fark that flow up IMHO.
There is absolutely no logic in a weapon or shield leveling up but, I think I get what is really abstractly symbolized here, it isn't the weapon that is leveling up but Shiren's initmate understanding of that specific weapon...although if this were the case wouldn't any Katana you find instantly become a level 4 Katana since you're so familiar with Katanas (so the analogy doesn't hold up)?
LordGek: My complaint is more based off of a general trend I see happening (and has been happening for some time) in JRPGs. It's just distressing it see it coming to Shiren too. It is nice that the DS versions are light on cutscenes though. The portable games seem to be rather more hardcore than the console ones.
bon: As I said, ALL games are abstract when you come down to it, but they still have a basis in reality. Sure, magic exists in these games, but it's still a system grounded in folklore and literature, which is a kind of reality in that people generally, intuitively understand how and why it works. My point is that role-playing games, Shiren among them, are moving away from that and more towards "it works because we designed it that way." That's not bad a little at a time, but when entire game systems are constructed whole cloth with no justification towards simulation, a smart player starts to wonder what kind of cockamamie world he's exploring.
bon: As I said, ALL games are abstract when you come down to it, but they still have a basis in reality. Sure, magic exists in these games, but it's still a system grounded in folklore and literature, which is a kind of reality in that people generally, intuitively understand how and why it works. My point is that role-playing games, Shiren among them, are moving away from that and more towards "it works because we designed it that way." That's not bad a little at a time, but when entire game systems are constructed whole cloth with no justification towards simulation, a smart player starts to wonder what kind of cockamamie world he's exploring.
JHarris said:
Enh, I mean, c'mon, how do you explain in Shiren how this super godlike warrior drops back down to some ordinary little commoner the second he steps out of the dungeon? I LOVE this aspect in the Shiren games but would NEVER contend it makes any sort of sense, it is just a very cool game mechanic making for a much more interesting gameplay experience.
Also, come to think of it, there is no real LOGIC in the post clear dungeons in many of the Mystery Dungeon games wherein the rules you thought you knew get oddly twisted (like in the Trap Dungeon the player is immune to traps but not the monsters).
Oh, a crippling blow in regards to Shiren 4. There is not only not a Food Dungeon at the end, there are no Bufu Knives or Wands in this incarnation (eating the meat of a monster to be come them...how gimmicky was that, John?) but with this new Nighttime mechanic it is kind of clear this wouldn't really work (since you can't hold a torch as a monster anyways it is safe to assume monsters can see perfectly fine at night, and as they love to beat the crap out of one another, clearly you wouldn't be affected by that inability to damage other creatures...so screw the Night Techniques, become an Arc Dragon and rule the dungeon).
Having exhausted everything I wanted to do in Heavy Rain (fucking awesome game) and FF13 not yet released, figured I'd jump back to this for a bit.
Managed to collect 99 moon stones (what a pain in the ass) but now I guess I need to do this bug repellant thing to unlock the final dungeon?
Also, is there a trap dungeon? If so, how does one unlock it?
edit:
I finished the bug repellant quest. But I am not seeing a final dungeon?
edit2:
nm, think I just found it. Box in the upper right of the Elder's House
Managed to collect 99 moon stones (what a pain in the ass) but now I guess I need to do this bug repellant thing to unlock the final dungeon?
Also, is there a trap dungeon? If so, how does one unlock it?
edit:
I finished the bug repellant quest. But I am not seeing a final dungeon?
edit2:
nm, think I just found it. Box in the upper right of the Elder's House
Just beated the game, it took 65 hours. It´s kind of embarrasing after seeing how people finished it in 25-30 hours, but hey, it is my first roguelike.
I like japanese folkore so i enjoyed the story. After seeing the credits i said, whoa, i didn´t know Masato Kato did the story!
Now it is time to try the after main-story quests.
I like japanese folkore so i enjoyed the story. After seeing the credits i said, whoa, i didn´t know Masato Kato did the story!
Now it is time to try the after main-story quests.
Just got Shiren DS not three days ago. It's so damn frustrating, almost masochistic. What is the draw?? I mean, there is a draw since I'm still vying to get further than the mountain town after starting COMPLETELY over nigh on 5 times, I just can't put my finger on it...
I might have to look into this one. What's the deal though, Sega localized DS and Atlus localized Wii? Is that right?
I might have to look into this one. What's the deal though, Sega localized DS and Atlus localized Wii? Is that right?
bon said:
Maybe this will hold you over until you can find that CD!
http://www.vgmapper.com/SysWii/S/ShirentheWanderer.html
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
Don't think of it as a story driven RPG like Final Fantasy, think of it as an arcade RPG where the point is to learn the intricacies game and replay often to achieve a higher and higher score with each attempt.Stencil said: