Fallout-NL
Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Bingo.
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Official Terminator 4 Thread of Potential Suckage
- Thread starter hokahey
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Bingo.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
reilo said:
yup.. thats true. and the terminators in T1 and T2 could have brought weapons and shit under their skin.. or have them wrapped in synthetic skin . or inside the T1000.. grenades and shit... but then the movies wouldn't have lasted very long either.
reilo said:
uh.. this did not happen in the movie. did you even watch it? this was part of the original script, not the final script.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I enjoyed the movie except for the fact the TERMINATOR failed to terminate John Connor as quickly as possible at the end. I kept on thinking: Just snap his neck already.
Templar Wizard
Member
Best cut: the fact that there is NO cut from connor taking off in the helo to when he 'gets out'
Worst cut: slow fade to black as connor turns to his wife to continue their conversation.
The movie suffers from Alien3 syndrome, Nolan was brought in to create a story even though pre production was already started and the tentpoles where already in motion.
I notice that Markus spends most time with the 'dollars' on screen, Bale gets the best one though.
starts off promising but just doesnt hit any real highpoints with a pretty weak final act.
5/10
Worst cut: slow fade to black as connor turns to his wife to continue their conversation.
The movie suffers from Alien3 syndrome, Nolan was brought in to create a story even though pre production was already started and the tentpoles where already in motion.
I notice that Markus spends most time with the 'dollars' on screen, Bale gets the best one though.
starts off promising but just doesnt hit any real highpoints with a pretty weak final act.
5/10
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yes yes yes.Replicant said:
People forget how terrifying those movies were the first time you watched them. It really did feel like no matter what they did, they were fucked.
So a couple of questions guys.
1. How does skynet knows that Kyle reese is that important as to put it first on the list of "will be killed by end of the week"
2. Is the guy at the start really the one who becomes a semi-terminator or do skynet just uses his back story to create a new one? I didn't get that part, it was really confusing that the guy was looking the same after that many years.
1. How does skynet knows that Kyle reese is that important as to put it first on the list of "will be killed by end of the week"
2. Is the guy at the start really the one who becomes a semi-terminator or do skynet just uses his back story to create a new one? I didn't get that part, it was really confusing that the guy was looking the same after that many years.
Templar Wizard
Member
i would say: refger to extended dvd at holiday season
yeah, that was so jarring and bizarre even if it was a "slow" transition. it was almost as bad as cutting mid-sentence.
a few more things:
no theme music. only music I noticed is the low-frequency pulse that was the T-1000's song.
they must NEVER, EVER make a direct reference to the Jesus metaphor. If they do, franchise is dead and buried.
it's not "You are the Resistance", it's "I am the Resistance". John Connor seems to be the only lone that matters. Connor saying "we are all dead" if they kill Kyle Reese, it's probably true but even so it came across as a bit egocentric.
Templar Wizard
Member
I concur, i am sure we will see the 'extended' version of that conversation on the dvd cut 
Its a shame the interesting stuff wasnt explored, like Connor and Reese's relationship.
Its a shame the interesting stuff wasnt explored, like Connor and Reese's relationship.
itxaka said:
1. In the original script, they don't know. He just happens to get captured which makes them not killing him the moment they get there hands on him actually make sense. They don't bother explaining why in this one, they just do.
2. No, they use him.
I'm still incredibly sad how this movie turned out. Why couldn't Bale just leave the movie alone.
Just finished watching the Sarah Connor Chronicles series (sigh) finale. The last 10 minutes of that are better then this entire movie.
Another way to look at it is Kyle Reese got sent back for some purpose (nothing to do with what we know), but somehow accidentally gets mixed up with Sarah Connor. Kyle tells Sarah about the future, Kyle still gets terminated, Sarah has John and teaches him about the future. Since John's been well prepared and trained, it was easy for him to become resistant leader. In future, John has to send Kyle back for him to exist. Thus, John's father has always been Kyle.
JimiNutz
Banned
Finally saw the movie.
Cant be bothered to write some sort of analysis since I'm sure it has been done to death already on GAF, and I'm not sure that the film is even worthy of any sort of intricate analysis anyway.
Essentially I enjoyed it because I love Terminator movies (yes I even kind of enjoyed T3-despite being fully aware that the movie is garbage.)
I gave up on the plot, and was disappointed with the ending, but it started off well and I'm glad I saw it at the cinema because the action scenes were well shot.
Worthington was also pretty awesome.
I'm not even going to attempt to understand or plug some of the glaring plot holes :lol
Based on this movie I would still watch a T5 if they made one. This movie is not good, but I've seen far worse sequels, and it doesn't entirely kill the franchise for me personally.
My rankings
1.Terminator 9/10
2.T2 9/10
3.T3 6/10
4.Terminator Salvation 6.5/10
Cant be bothered to write some sort of analysis since I'm sure it has been done to death already on GAF, and I'm not sure that the film is even worthy of any sort of intricate analysis anyway.
Essentially I enjoyed it because I love Terminator movies (yes I even kind of enjoyed T3-despite being fully aware that the movie is garbage.)
I gave up on the plot, and was disappointed with the ending, but it started off well and I'm glad I saw it at the cinema because the action scenes were well shot.
Worthington was also pretty awesome.
I'm not even going to attempt to understand or plug some of the glaring plot holes :lol
Based on this movie I would still watch a T5 if they made one. This movie is not good, but I've seen far worse sequels, and it doesn't entirely kill the franchise for me personally.
My rankings
1.Terminator 9/10
2.T2 9/10
3.T3 6/10
4.Terminator Salvation 6.5/10
gamergirly
Member
TheHeretic said:
That's the thing that made me pause while watching the movie. There was no reason for John Connor to even survive. I fully expected him to be killed given all the Terminators, explosions(the one in the beginning could have easily taken him out), flying debris, and then multiple interactions with Marcus.
And it might just just be me....but there seems to be a circular dependency going on. I dont know who came first: Kyle Reese[Future-Back] or John Connor[Future]?? Kyle was sent back by John Connor to protect Sarah in the [Past] and essentially got conceived but how does John Connor exist before that???
Fallout-NL
Member
Templar Wizard said:
More shit?
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
gamergirly said:
You have just described an ontological paradox, an inherent part of the sort of time travel that is depicted in the Terminator series.
This movie continues the rape of the terminator name that started with 2. The dark, dreadful feeling that saturated the first terminator movie still hasn't returned. Funny thing is I thought that when the series reached this moment it would be the darkest part of series. Reese talking about the future in T1 and the little taste we get of the future lead me to imagine the movie or movies that take place after judgement day would be very, dark, depressing, and brutal; this movie was neither of these things. I know that when these judgement day movies did arrive that they wouldn't quiet live up to what I imagined, but this movie didn't make an attempt to do it.
The best part of this movie is the acting. No one phones it in (not even Bale). Sam did an excellent job as Marcus. If this movie was actually good He would probably get a mention during Oscar nominations. I feel is performance in this movie is the best performance of the terminator series. Its just too bad its wasted in this shit movie.
The movie could have been great if the writers had the chops to handle crafting the plot and script. What we got was a garbage movie that is at a Wolverine level of quality. I would be surprised of Stan Lee shit both of these movies not after a night of KFC and mikes hard lemonade. This movie had two main characters (Conner felt like he was tacked on) and the writers could not handle it.
The camera work is Michael Bay influenced shit. The music is forgettable. And the editing is atrocious. Some of Conner's scenes were pointless. The scene where John and Marcus first meet was embarrassing. They try to create tension, but the script isn't up to stuff and music just kills it. The one positive is that the best camera work is done at this point.
This was just a bad movie. A lot of good would have to be done to redeem the terminator franchise. One more like this and the franchise will be on life support like Robocop.
The best part of this movie is the acting. No one phones it in (not even Bale). Sam did an excellent job as Marcus. If this movie was actually good He would probably get a mention during Oscar nominations. I feel is performance in this movie is the best performance of the terminator series. Its just too bad its wasted in this shit movie.
The movie could have been great if the writers had the chops to handle crafting the plot and script. What we got was a garbage movie that is at a Wolverine level of quality. I would be surprised of Stan Lee shit both of these movies not after a night of KFC and mikes hard lemonade. This movie had two main characters (Conner felt like he was tacked on) and the writers could not handle it.
The camera work is Michael Bay influenced shit. The music is forgettable. And the editing is atrocious. Some of Conner's scenes were pointless. The scene where John and Marcus first meet was embarrassing. They try to create tension, but the script isn't up to stuff and music just kills it. The one positive is that the best camera work is done at this point.
There were two points in this movie that made no damn sense to me. The first is when Marcus goes to save John. Can anyone explain why he changes his clothes? Its a life or death situation and Marcus is worried about his clothes!?!
The second thing that really bothered me is the ending. Why the hell did Marcus not get a funeral? It one of the few lines that stuck in my mind during the movie yet we don't get to see Marcus get buried. Can believe they missed the boat like that.
The second thing that really bothered me is the ending. Why the hell did Marcus not get a funeral? It one of the few lines that stuck in my mind during the movie yet we don't get to see Marcus get buried. Can believe they missed the boat like that.
This was just a bad movie. A lot of good would have to be done to redeem the terminator franchise. One more like this and the franchise will be on life support like Robocop.
charsace said:
Your talking about after
Skynet patches him up right
As for the second question I believe that has to do with the last minute ending change and rewrite in general.
http://www.chud.com/articles/articl...NT-WRONG-WITH-TERMINATOR-SALVATION/Page1.html
In case some people have not read this, all of the glaring inconsistencies and plot holes are a direct result of Bale butchering the original script and tacking on the role he wanted John Connor to have.
Most of the big plot holes people have mentioned are given proper attention a closure in the original script... like what was the point in the cyborg project, why didn't Skynet just Kill Kyle and end the war forever, why did so many of the Connor scenes feel completely pointless, etc.
Yeah. The old scripts major plot twist and ending are out there. But they make sense for the movie, even the final version.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Varna said:
Yet the original script was even more retarded than the movie turned out to be.
Scullibundo said:
Well of course most of these movies sound retarded when you are reading what they are about. But everything being played out on the big screen... I think it would have worked.
In my case all the plot holes made the movie shit, get rid of those and it's all good to me. I'm not going to be upset because they give Skynet a motive and future John Connor an interesting revelation.
pitt_norton
Member
I can't wait for Avatar... to wash away the hogwash that Salvation spat on me.
WickedAngel
Banned
Varna said:
SkyNet resorts wouldn't have played out any better on screen than they sounded on paper. In fact, it'd be worse because seeing it on screen would imply that I had paid for the experience.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I loved the movie. Great fun.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
charsace said:
i disagree - the over-earnest and serious way he delivered his lines made me cringe. that guy takes himself so seriously it's not even funny. he almost could have been removed from the movie altogether and it would have made no difference.
i'm following this thread every now and then and the posts about the plot holes definitely show that it's a pretty shitty terminator film. still, i enjoyed it far more than T3 and it kept me entertained the whole way. i guess i'm a sucker for gritty futuristic settings
Akuun said:
that's kind of the way it is for me, but it doesn't mean i didn't enjoy it when i watched it. doesn't hold up to scrutiny, for sure, but i had a good time.
If I remember right, the novelization (lol) has John wondering why the hell Skynet let him go all the way to their base before attacking him. He entertained some speculation they wanted proper DNA testing done on the corpse under the implication he's dodged many previous attacks or been assumed killed more than once. It'd been nice to include something rather than ignoring it entirely in the film.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I just learned that I was supposed to hate this movie. Reading this thread makes me think that I shouldn't have listened to you regarding T3.
itxaka said:
Because Skynet was given the kiss of life by the TX in Terminator 3. So she could have easily left information regarding other future targets, including people who will obviously be important in stoping John Connor from either winning or existing. It's not a plot hole.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Surely the man in the center of things can't be as sure as we watching the film. Especially since in each film from 1-3 they threw some new time travel wrinkle so not even we all agree on what rules apply.charsace said:
And if he really never had any reason to worry, he'd just sleep out in the open and in the end not bother sending back protectors through time.
Christopher
BDE (Big Dad Energy)
Saw it...I'm not exactly sure what to think of it. Are we forever stuck in this loop of Skynet trying to be downed? I dunno I just didn't get that epic feeling like we're finally going to take Skynet down. The movie while pretty good and certainly not cheesy like T3 just left me empty...it was just missing things that make it a satisifying movie.
I went in with a blank slate too just with basic T1/2 knowledge...man I wish Linda Hamilton, and Furlong would have continued where they left off trying to take down Skynet that would have been cool...but eh it was a decent film, but just didn't really have anything satisifying to it.
How was the television show did it take terminator in this direction or did it feel like T1/T2?
I went in with a blank slate too just with basic T1/2 knowledge...man I wish Linda Hamilton, and Furlong would have continued where they left off trying to take down Skynet that would have been cool...but eh it was a decent film, but just didn't really have anything satisifying to it.
How was the television show did it take terminator in this direction or did it feel like T1/T2?
Leatherface
Member
I really enjoyed the movie, but can definately understand the gripes. It's not a perfect movie by any means, but it sure is fun to watch. The effects are incredible, the machines were badass, and Sam Worthington's character was awesome IMO.
If you haven't seen it yet, this is definately a "theater" movie, so go see it!
If you haven't seen it yet, this is definately a "theater" movie, so go see it!
highroller
Member
I thought it was a weird logical flaw that Kyle Reese was soooo important to them but then once they captured him they didn't even bother killing him right away. Seems to break the logical of machine efficiency to keep him in that cell when they could have just killed him.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I've only watched the first season of the show. But what you wrote in the earlier paragraph? Well, other than different actors that's kind of the direction it went: Due to further incursions from the future they learn that their T2 actions weren't enough, and make it their goal to figure out what else they need to do. Still a different feel than the movies because they didn't want the characters being constantly chased, though.Christopher said:
EDIT: It's worth noting that I watched the season after Salvation due to getting on a Terminator kick, and enjoyed it more. If anything, this year seeing new Star Trek and Terminator movies and then watching the Terminator TV series reminded me that I prefer TV series in general for their ability to spend much more time fleshing out a concept.
It's a solid action movie with some brilliant set pieces but it feels slightly flat as it's attention to the SFX makes it emotionally uninteresting and humourless.
I really liked some of Common's work in Street Kings but he's given nearly nothing to do in this film. In fact most of the cast fade into the background and really become nothing more than static between Bale and Worthington.
I really like Anton Yelchin but he's given nothing to do. We're told he's (Kyle Reese) special. But why? Star Trek had the exact same problem with the Kirk (Chris Pine) character.
All along I was talking up McG being a sound choice for director and I think that all things considered he might just come away from this unscathed. His action chops are great and some of the shots and set pieces are genuinely thrilling.
I can't help but feel that if McG were to get his hands on a really great action script that didn't have the obvious flaws that TS did then he'd totally knock it out of the park. I really think that McG has that sort of potential in him.
But owing to TS's performance in the US I think that John Connor/Bale will be taking his trip back in time to London without McG.
In short an enjoyable sci-fi action film that I think perhaps takes itself too seriously. I remember the other Terminator films had little hints of humour in them. Something that I feel TS desperately needs.
No doubt this Xmas when the 'Totally Unrated Xtreme Edition' DVD of TS comes out we might get a sense of what the film is really like.
I really liked some of Common's work in Street Kings but he's given nearly nothing to do in this film. In fact most of the cast fade into the background and really become nothing more than static between Bale and Worthington.
I really like Anton Yelchin but he's given nothing to do. We're told he's (Kyle Reese) special. But why? Star Trek had the exact same problem with the Kirk (Chris Pine) character.
All along I was talking up McG being a sound choice for director and I think that all things considered he might just come away from this unscathed. His action chops are great and some of the shots and set pieces are genuinely thrilling.
I can't help but feel that if McG were to get his hands on a really great action script that didn't have the obvious flaws that TS did then he'd totally knock it out of the park. I really think that McG has that sort of potential in him.
But owing to TS's performance in the US I think that John Connor/Bale will be taking his trip back in time to London without McG.
In short an enjoyable sci-fi action film that I think perhaps takes itself too seriously. I remember the other Terminator films had little hints of humour in them. Something that I feel TS desperately needs.
No doubt this Xmas when the 'Totally Unrated Xtreme Edition' DVD of TS comes out we might get a sense of what the film is really like.
AndrewG009
Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Agreed. The first time I watched them, I was driven by, "let's see how they get out of this" thinking.
gamergirly
Member
omg rite said:
This was basically a prequel to a sequel
By the time you find Kyle Reese, the movie is pretty much over. You dont get to see Reese get sent back to the Past or anything else. Took them the whole movie just to find him.
Fallout-NL
Member
Busty said:
Agreed, despite my expectations, McG wasn't the problem.
Obviously there's all sorts of opinions on gaf different from mine but I am just completely shocked that anyone who likes Terminator 1 & 2 could enjoy this movie. I seen it last night and I thought it was the biggest pile of shit I've watched in a long time. Everything about it was just wrong, the writing, the characters, the plot, the terminators. I left the cinema angry to be honest, can't everyone see how much better this could have been?
Theres a good film in there, im holding out for the Blu-Ray version.
Please bump this up to 18, the first 2 films had so much tension because you know what terminators are capable of. In Salvation the terminators lose every battle they are in, incompetant killing machines. Theres just no fear
Please bump this up to 18, the first 2 films had so much tension because you know what terminators are capable of. In Salvation the terminators lose every battle they are in, incompetant killing machines. Theres just no fear
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
i know i said it a hundred times but i'll say it again. the first two movies are completely different from this. if you think it's a shitty movie with glaring plot holes, that's fine. but all this comparison to how it falls short of T1 and T2 is like criticizing a shark for not having feathers. the premise is completely different, people
*bangs bloodied head on wall
*bangs bloodied head on wall
I saw this the other day. I've always liked Terminator movies so I automatically thought this was ok. Still though it was far worse than what I was expecting when it was announced.
They kind of stuck with the T2 formula more than what I wanted. I was hoping for a massive robot battle... like thousands of robots fighting against an equal number of humans.. Kind of like the lord of the rings movie battles but way cooler because it would be robots instead of orcs and wizards. but in the end it was the same thing of fighting 1 robot at a time and car chases and stuff.
Still enjoyed it a bit but would have waited for DVD if I knew it wasn't based around massive robot battles.
They kind of stuck with the T2 formula more than what I wanted. I was hoping for a massive robot battle... like thousands of robots fighting against an equal number of humans.. Kind of like the lord of the rings movie battles but way cooler because it would be robots instead of orcs and wizards. but in the end it was the same thing of fighting 1 robot at a time and car chases and stuff.
Still enjoyed it a bit but would have waited for DVD if I knew it wasn't based around massive robot battles.
Fallout-NL
Member
Roders5 said:
Should have been, even.
A disgrace, that much is sure.
Roders5 said:
Just about agree with most of your sentiment.
I watched it here in Beijing and the theatre was almost full, so I think Terminator will definitely continue to reap enough dollars from Asia to justify future sequels.
- NUMBER ONE problem for me was the whole Moon/Worthington arc, where the romance was forced right from the stupid vagrants trying to bang her and him saving her out of nowhere, and then her "loving the sound" of his apparently SUPER ROBOT HEART that beats a million times a minute. The girl has a nice pair of knockers but fuck, the whole saving-him arc was unnecessary and ridiculous -- why would a member of a resistance for humankind devastated by machine give SO MUCH up for something so suspicious? Terrible, I hope she gets canned in the next film or shows those knockers.
- The plot and script was terrible but not without any merit, it was a BY-THE-NUMBERS action movie and that was disappointing given the huge budget and great production values. The movie LOOKED good but there was no development of characters nor any development of the various LOCALES.. you never got a strong sense of place and origin for the resistance submarine, Connor's camp, the Skynet stronghold etc. Nothing was fleshed out, EVERYTHING was basically a platform for guns and explosions.
- I wasn't as impressed with Sam Worthington as many posters were. The whole character was a terrible archetype variant of a badass motherfucker and there were so many inconsistent actions and thoughts and he never made a connection with me.
- I also didn't think that Bale was as bad as people made him out to be. It was just an uninspiring performance, but there was nothing much in the script that fleshed his character.
- Kyle Reese (young) was alright, but mute girl was an annoying cliche.
I was cringing at several moments in the film, especially the Moon/Worthington arc which was utterly ridiculous. It's SUCH a waste because at times the movie looks really beautiful, and there was so much potential but it's all in the hands of the wrong key personnel -- most notably MCG. Although Bale had a big role in changing the script, MCG is the director in the end and he could've chosen to not use Bale. The whole movie feels pathetically thin, and plenty of cuts in the film were reflective of a director whose skills are nowhere near the premier league.
They need to seriously get better writers for the sequel. Obviously with its success worldwide, and with the directorship resting with MCG, I doubt there'll be any improvement.
Franchise slaughtered.
HOLY CRAP!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_Salvation
All my talk about Moon's knockers and it turns out she was ALREADY planned to show off her pair :lol:lol I'd say it's all she's good for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_Salvation
All my talk about Moon's knockers and it turns out she was ALREADY planned to show off her pair :lol:lol I'd say it's all she's good for.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
gantz85 said:
his heart is a normal human heart. its just very strong.. but most of the issues with the whole saving him thing has to do with the editing.. if they had included the love scene and some of the other stuff, it would have been more believable. blame the studios for this one.
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