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Official UFC 97 Redemption Thread
- Thread starter AranhaHunter
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JimiNutz
Banned
I didn't think the event was THAT bad, in fact I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Personally I thought Cane vs Cantwell was fight of the night, a great back and forth brawl. Certainly looking forward to seeing Cane make his way up the 205 ladder, and I imagine that fights with Thiago Silva or maybe Wanderlei Silva would be very exciting. Cantwell also looks like he's gonna have a very bright future ahead of him-he's still only 22!
Glad to see Shogun get the win. I don't dislike Chuck by any means but clearly age is catching up with him, while a fit and healthy Shogun could potentially provide some VERY interesting match-ups in the division. I must admit even though I was cheering for Rua I did feel a little sorry for Liddell. The guy is clearly still hungry to fight and I think retirement is gonna be a tough pill for him to swallow. It's a shame to see great fighters go out like that but at least he got retired by a worthy appponent. WAR SHOGUN
As for the main event, once again it was a little frustrating to see Silva so tentative, but unlike the fight with Cote, Silva was at least pushing forward and looking to engage-especially in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds. Thales just kept falling on his ass every time Silva tried to engage, and while I would have liked to have seen Silva just explode on Leites I think he had a hard time getting into any sort of real rhythm. It was funny watching the post fight conference, some journalist asked Silva why he's afraid to engage his opponents anymore (or something to that effect) and Chuck jumped on him so quick, lol. Liddell was like WTF you talking about? Anderson was pushing forward pretty much non-stop, not his fault Thales just kept falling over, is it?
I kind of feel sorry for Maia. Dude has probably earned a title shot but nobody wants to see Silva vs another pure Jiu-Jitsu guy so soon after this last fight. Maybe Marquardt could put on a more interesting fight 2nd time around, but realistically the UFC should look to set up the mega fight between Silva and St Pierre ASAP (so long as GSP takes care of Alves at 100.) If the St Pierre vs Sliva fight doesn't happen for whatever reason, then I really hope we see Silva move up to 205 for the remainder of his career.
Personally I thought Cane vs Cantwell was fight of the night, a great back and forth brawl. Certainly looking forward to seeing Cane make his way up the 205 ladder, and I imagine that fights with Thiago Silva or maybe Wanderlei Silva would be very exciting. Cantwell also looks like he's gonna have a very bright future ahead of him-he's still only 22!
Glad to see Shogun get the win. I don't dislike Chuck by any means but clearly age is catching up with him, while a fit and healthy Shogun could potentially provide some VERY interesting match-ups in the division. I must admit even though I was cheering for Rua I did feel a little sorry for Liddell. The guy is clearly still hungry to fight and I think retirement is gonna be a tough pill for him to swallow. It's a shame to see great fighters go out like that but at least he got retired by a worthy appponent. WAR SHOGUN
As for the main event, once again it was a little frustrating to see Silva so tentative, but unlike the fight with Cote, Silva was at least pushing forward and looking to engage-especially in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds. Thales just kept falling on his ass every time Silva tried to engage, and while I would have liked to have seen Silva just explode on Leites I think he had a hard time getting into any sort of real rhythm. It was funny watching the post fight conference, some journalist asked Silva why he's afraid to engage his opponents anymore (or something to that effect) and Chuck jumped on him so quick, lol. Liddell was like WTF you talking about? Anderson was pushing forward pretty much non-stop, not his fault Thales just kept falling over, is it?
I kind of feel sorry for Maia. Dude has probably earned a title shot but nobody wants to see Silva vs another pure Jiu-Jitsu guy so soon after this last fight. Maybe Marquardt could put on a more interesting fight 2nd time around, but realistically the UFC should look to set up the mega fight between Silva and St Pierre ASAP (so long as GSP takes care of Alves at 100.) If the St Pierre vs Sliva fight doesn't happen for whatever reason, then I really hope we see Silva move up to 205 for the remainder of his career.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Big-E said:
It takes two to have a good fight. Once they got started Anderson was fighting someone who did not want to be there. Thales was flopping all over the place just not trying. I am sure Anderson was not happy with the fight on an entertainment scale, but at the same time he did what he needed to do to keep the belt. I think that the problem is if you have a strategy of not getting caught, it makes for a boring fight for the fans.
dem said:
i have mixed feelings about the fight.
one the one hand, almost nothing happened. i wanted a KO, TKO, or sub, and got instead a guy playing posseum and another showboating without putting himself in any danger.
thales was embarrasing to watch.
one the other hand, the way in which anderson was dancing around and getting frustrated with the drops to the ground, was entertaining. the guy is fucking awesome, and that fight was a testement to how good he is even though little actual fighting took place.
i kept hoping anderson would at least hyperextend thales's leg with some of the great straight leg kicks
muahaha whose laughing now!mrbagdt said:
dude silva could of easily finished the fight if he actually wanted to. thales was practically begging him to do it. anderson is now a champion who is fighting to keep his belt and not fighting to win. much like tim sylvia did when he was the champion. maybe he just wants to remain undefeated so his contract can run out and he can fight roy jones jr as the ufc champion. who knows but whatever the reason silva is boring fighter now.sprsk said:
if anderson was the p4p king he would have just went to the ground with leites and pounded him out or submitted him
was gsp afraid to go to the ground with penn or serra?
was fedor afraid to go to the ground with big nog or afraid to stand up with crocop?
silva's last 2 fights have been pathetic, obviously he's a talented guy, but come on
was gsp afraid to go to the ground with penn or serra?
was fedor afraid to go to the ground with big nog or afraid to stand up with crocop?
silva's last 2 fights have been pathetic, obviously he's a talented guy, but come on
riskVSreward
Member
There's a difference between being afraid to go to the ground and just not taking any unnecessary risks. If I were a fighter, winning would be my #1 goal and I would personally feel that I owe nothing to the fans in terms of entertainment.yacobod said:
riskVSreward said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb9HEnqymH8&feature=related
watch fedor/nog 1, fedor fought most of the fight in nog's guard, escaped all his sub attempts, and whooped that ass, thats why fedor and gsp should be above anderson in the p4p ranks imo
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
smurfx said:
I really don't agree with that. Thales wanted Silva to get in his guard where I am assuming he had some plan, I don't think he was begging Anderson to finish the fight. Anderson wouldn't take the bait and Thales made it clear he would not fight unless the fight was on the ground. At the end of the day, for whatever reason, it was a boring fight and that makes 2 in a row for Anderson.
GSP might be the only thing that is going to get some excitement out of him. Someone that is going to take the fight to him.
JimiNutz
Banned
dskillzhtown said:
GSP vs Silva would be exciting for one fight, but then what? I hope he fights GSP, then moves up to 205 and stays there permanently. Silva vs Jackson, Silva vs Rua, Silva vs Evans, Silva vs Machida etc. these are the fights I would like to see.
Actually maybe not Silva vs Machida, that would probably be another dance off :lol
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Winning isn't everything. Couture has a terrible record, but he's always fought the top guys and tried to put on a good show, which is why he's so well-liked.riskVSreward said:
Winning by boredom will give you a win, but it's hard to win when no one wants to book you for a fight because you're boring.
I'll say though that Silva didn't really do anything wrong here. It's clear the other guy had a single plan and I blame him for not having a real fight instead of just turtling like he was playing Street Fighter.
EraldoCoil
Member
by far the best moment of UFC 97 was the appearance of Sexyama.
Damn that is one sexy man.......
WAR SEXYAMA!!!!
Damn that is one sexy man.......
WAR SEXYAMA!!!!
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
just to add insult to injury apparently Silva was greasing himself up before match started to make sure he wouldn't get caught in submission early
check out the gif see what ya think.
check out the gif see what ya think.
riskVSreward
Member
There is no difference between these two mentalities.Eggo said:
The fight wasn't exciting, some say it was boring, I don't disagree. Silva has these expectations thrust upon him because of his past exciting fights, it isn't fair. He has to live up to all this asinine hype in order for people to not trash his performance. What really happened last night? Silva won, taking virtually no damage in the process, and Leites flopped around hoping Silva would just leap into his guard. This isn't something you can blame solely on Silva.
Leites is so far and away a better BJJ practitioner than Nog, it's a completely unfounded comparison. Why on earth would someone with the stand-up prowess of Silva want to fight in Leites guard at all? He kept the fight on his feet and fought smart.
Again, not an exciting fight, but Silva didn't do anything wrong.
riskVSreward
Member
Nog's had more fights? I don't like where this discussion is headed, bottom line, Leites is extremely dangerous on the ground. If Silva wanted to win the fight, he would avoid getting in Leites' guard or even getting on the ground with him at all. That's the best way to lock the W, don't play on the ground with a lethal BJJ artist.yacobod said:
riskVSreward said:
There is a huge difference between protecting a lead and trying to put someone away. We all know Silva is capable of the latter, but he chose to do the former. I can understand being careful in the first couple rounds, when you're feeling out your opponent and adjusting to their speed. I agree with not taking unnecessary risks like trying to GnP in Leites' guard. But there were plenty of opportunities where he could have started swinging but instead chose to punch his thigh or start dancing.
Especially after he proved he was capable of standing back up after being taken down, there was very little risk in being more aggressive than he was. Leites' shoot towards the end of the fight was pathetic. He had very little in the gas tank, but Silva refused to engage. Not to say all the blame lies on Silva. 75% of the problem in this fight was Leites' failed strategy, but Silva did nothing to redeem his awful performance in the Cote fight, despite his claims to being upset with it. I think he's just a fat cat who's not hungry any more. He's lost that killer instinct to be the best that GSP still has.
riskVSreward
Member
Of course there is, but saying "fighting to win" and "fighting not to lose" attempts to cheapen the two different gameplans. I'll just say I see nothing wrong with protecting the lead, especially if you're the champ. The champ has a lot more to lose than the challenger, and really, the challenger should be the one pushing the fight.
I was not satisfied with the fight (hell, the whole card was very meh) but the inevitable backlash is getting to be very annoying.
riskVSreward said:
In the end the fans pay the bills. Not the wins. Not the belt.
Dana White was pretty pissed
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-silva041909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
riskVSreward
Member
Yeah, popularity is a good way to get attention, attention is a good way to get a contract. Buyrates (or "the fans" as you put it) are a very small factor into what determines getting paid.Grecco said:
Of course Dana White is popping off at the mouth, what else is he good for?
If a guys whole gameplan is to fall on the ground for no reason and expect the other guy to get on top of him, it's going to be a boring fight. It happened with arlovski vs. werdum, and it happened here.
How are people saying anderson lost 2 rounds? Leites did absolutely nothing the entire fight? Silva might have gotten hit with like 5 shots the entire fight?
How are people saying anderson lost 2 rounds? Leites did absolutely nothing the entire fight? Silva might have gotten hit with like 5 shots the entire fight?
OokieSpookie
Banned
bloodydrake said:
That is crap.
He completely dominated and humiliated his opponent and all Leites did was fall on his ass and turtle up.
He put on a counter fighting clinic and completely outclassed Leites.
SolidSnakex
Member
Grecco said:
The first thing he can do is throw Leites out of the UFC.
bigmit3737
Member
riskVSreward said:
This. Exactly.
Anderson Silva defended his belt and played his game.
What's with all this hate...when nothing was happening he was aggressive.
His opponent didn't do anything...and kept flopping.
You are not going to play into opponents traps or strengths...you play your game and that's what Silva did.
Congrats to him and I still don't see him losing.
Can't wait for Machida and Evans fight.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Rur0ni said:
You didnt enjoy Cantwell vs Cane?
I thought every fight was worth watching but the main event.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
Nuthuggers not withstanding, to blame this all on Leites is shortsighted.
Silva didn't do nearly enough for someone with his capabilities.
But to clarify i criticized them both equally. Neither showed any Heart in there.
Anderson "THE MANIAC" Silva IS the way he's fighting now tho. He pulled this with Cote and everyone said it was a fluke..well its not, now its a trend.
If he's the greatest ever and Leites is such a chump the fight should have been over in the 1st and I shouldn't have had to watch some weird dance session thru 3 of the rounds.
Silva didn't do nearly enough for someone with his capabilities.
But to clarify i criticized them both equally. Neither showed any Heart in there.
Anderson "THE MANIAC" Silva IS the way he's fighting now tho. He pulled this with Cote and everyone said it was a fluke..well its not, now its a trend.
If he's the greatest ever and Leites is such a chump the fight should have been over in the 1st and I shouldn't have had to watch some weird dance session thru 3 of the rounds.
Some of you guys can't lay off Silva's nuts. Leites was completely fucking gassed. Anderson decides to start punching him in the thigh. Think about this for a second. You say he didn't want to play into someone's strength then why the fuck is he doing stupid shit like that? He opens himself to punch him in the thigh when he could be pounding his head in and end the fight? Both Leites and Anderson were bums in this fight and they both deserved to be booed to kingdom come for this. This is suppose to be the top fighter in the top promotion and was the main event for this pay per view. Champions show how great they are. Anderson has not done this the last two times.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
This is how a true champ fights someone Who's suppose to have the best submission skills in your division.
AranhaHunter said:
AranhaHunter said:
AranhaHunter said:
FUCK THAT, you will. You goddamn better leave my MMA threads alone. You can make them when I don't feel like it, fucker.
Hell, you should just ask my permission via PM before you even think about being so presumptious as to having the right to creating "Official" GAF MMA threads.
Anyhow, my take on the main event:
FUCK ANDERSON SILVA.
There's no excuse for that.
No "well, his goal is just to win"
No "well, Leites wasn't engaging either"
None of that shit. If he is to make some claim to being the best fighter in the sport, he has to fucking engage. Show some killer instinct.
To compare Silva with his two competitors for P4P, have you ever seen GSP or Fedor put in performances as ridiculous as this?
No. Because those two always push the pace. They are always engaging. No excuses need to be made for GSP or Fedor about fighting "strategically" or fighting "to avoid damage".
Which is all the more absurd, because GSP and Fedor are able to fight aggressively and still be considered two of the most strategic fighters in the sport.
Silva has now done nothing but fuck around for two straight fights. He better give his fucking head a shake.
Fightlinker's thoughts mirror mine: http://www.fightlinker.com/?p=5807
you guys need to stop pissing and moaning. If the UFC would throw someone at him who could potentially put his champion status in danger, it would be a whole different subject. But if I am Silva -- which, of course, I'm not -- I'm not going to ground and pound someone to a victory, nor will I be trying to submit a BJJ practitioner who is begging me to go to the ground with him.
I don't see anyone complaining about Liddell being a stand-up fighter and when fighters (such as Babalu) beg for him to go to the ground, Liddell tells them to stand up.
This is 80% (random number) Leites fault for not taking it to the champ and being a wimp. He's supposed to take the belt away from Silva, not beg for him to fight his game.
Silva's has 20% blame for not having confidence in his BJJ/ground game/ground n pound, but then again, he's the champ and doesn't need to fight anyone else's game besides his own.
If you can't figure that out, then obviously don't understand what it takes to be a champ. Liddell's fights never went to the ground, but then again, UFC always put him up against opponents who were hungry for the title and would try to test Liddell. Silva is getting pansies who just want Silva to screw up and get a fluke victory.
I don't see anyone complaining about Liddell being a stand-up fighter and when fighters (such as Babalu) beg for him to go to the ground, Liddell tells them to stand up.
This is 80% (random number) Leites fault for not taking it to the champ and being a wimp. He's supposed to take the belt away from Silva, not beg for him to fight his game.
Silva's has 20% blame for not having confidence in his BJJ/ground game/ground n pound, but then again, he's the champ and doesn't need to fight anyone else's game besides his own.
If you can't figure that out, then obviously don't understand what it takes to be a champ. Liddell's fights never went to the ground, but then again, UFC always put him up against opponents who were hungry for the title and would try to test Liddell. Silva is getting pansies who just want Silva to screw up and get a fluke victory.
bigmit3737
Member
Boogie said:
Throw someone really aggressive at Silva then.
You don't have to be aggressive to be a great fighter.
Silva likes to counter attack.
For entertainment wise...it wasn't a interesting fight. But he won and he didn't smother the guy (something I hate).
I guess not too many people like Machida either.
Caspel said:
Make me.
So because Leites wasn't a dangerous opponent, Silva couldn't finish him? Bull-fucking-shit.
Again, see what other elite fighter do against outmatched opponents: they beat the shit out of them. See Fedor vs. TK.
Great example. Liddell KTFO'd Babalu twice.
That's boxing thinking, and has no place in MMA.
:lol Begging someone to stand up is not what was wrong with Silva. Most people don't engage with ground and pound when someone is flat on their back and they are standing up over them but what is laughable is when the fight goes back to standing he proceeds to punching his opponent in the thigh.
bigmit3737 said:
I "like" Machida, but see him vulnerable to the same criticisms as Silva recently, of course. But Machida/Thiago Silva was an awesome fight.
I will not blame Silva's opponents for his performances. Again, show me an example of Fedor or GSP being so tentative for 5 fucking rounds.
Big-E said:
exactly
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Caspel said:
Chuck also KO'd Babalu twice. He didnt just punch him in the thigh.
EDIT-Shit Boogie beat me to it.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
One thing that was pointed out on the radio that is very true is that was Thales' chance at the belt. Silva's job was to keep the belt. Was THAT what Thales was going to do with his chance? Flop on the ground? Not be aggressive in trying to get the belt? That was shocking that someone who wanted the gold didn't do much to try to get it.
All Anderson wanted to do was keep his belt, if it's a crappy fight, I don't think he really cares, as long as he keeps the belt. It is the challenger's job to take it from him. I am not trying to make excuses, but when I remember back to some boxing championship matches in the past, it was the same thing. The challenger has a chance to win gold and for him to be tentative and not aggressive, that is a opportunity lost.
I hated Tim's fights as well when he was champ, but if no one could take it from him, he fought a good fight.
All Anderson wanted to do was keep his belt, if it's a crappy fight, I don't think he really cares, as long as he keeps the belt. It is the challenger's job to take it from him. I am not trying to make excuses, but when I remember back to some boxing championship matches in the past, it was the same thing. The challenger has a chance to win gold and for him to be tentative and not aggressive, that is a opportunity lost.
I hated Tim's fights as well when he was champ, but if no one could take it from him, he fought a good fight.
There is a preserving a win and then there was that fight. A judge, and me, gave Thales 2 round wins which were probably the first two. Think about this for a second. A guy flopping on his back doing nothing did more in the first two rounds than Anderson Silva did. You guys all say that Anderson wanted to keep the fight standing to keep with his "game plan" and guess what boys and girls, most of the fight was spent standing and Anderson chose to only do leg kicks and thigh punches. Thales did have some damage on his face but guess when the bulk of that came from? When they were both on the ground. Thales was no threat to Anderson in the guard especially with the "awesome" BJJ he supposedly has which accompanies his accurate striking. We have seen people try and preserve wins all the time and none of them were as boring and retarded as that fight.
A lot of things people should realize is Montreal is a big event for them. This isn't some small Ohio town holding a PPV. Montreal was a big money maker for the UFC in their first fight there and Dana wants it to continue putting PPV's here to make big bucks and performances like that puts in jeopardy the ability to make money.
A lot of things people should realize is Montreal is a big event for them. This isn't some small Ohio town holding a PPV. Montreal was a big money maker for the UFC in their first fight there and Dana wants it to continue putting PPV's here to make big bucks and performances like that puts in jeopardy the ability to make money.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Boogie said:Well, since you made the connection with Big Timmy's fights, I guess I don't have to.
But if Anderson wants to be remembered as a champion along the lines of Tim Sylvia, all the more power to him.
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Fans can boo all they want, but if Anderson walks away with the gold, it doesn't matter. The debate comes into play if MMA is a competition or entertainment. Is the best MMA fighter the champion or the one that puts on entertaining fights? You would hope those are one in the same, but that isn't always the case.
dskillzhtown said:
This is bullshit. Winning with style and putting on entertaining fights is everything in mma. People buy PPV's and pay high gate prices to see good fights not to see 5 rounds of boredom. Anderson does this again it won't matter if he is the champ or not. Anderson will be relegated to free fights in Idaho or out of the UFC all together.
dskillzhtown said:
Of course it matters.
It matters for his legacy.
And (more importantly?) it matters for his bottom line. Exciting fighters draw PPV buys, and headliners get a percentage of PPV buys. If Anderson continues to draw like crap on PPV, due to his increasingly tentative style, then it affects how much money he takes home at the end of the day.
But hey, if he doesn't care about his legacy and reputation, and doesn't care about how much money he makes, then you're right, it doesn't matter.
Big-E said:
Yes, this as well. Montreal has the potential to essentially be the UFC's #2 venue behind Vegas. But I guess Anderson doesn't care about that either.
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