Support NeoGAF

[Cyberpunkd]

So Kotaku run the usual stupid piece the other day: https://kotaku.com/persona-3-reload-trans-scene-beautiful-lady-beach-1851206294

No need to click, here's the article:

Persona 3 Reload is a mostly faithful recreation of the 2006 RPG. There are new social sim elements, new abilities, and a handful of quality-of-life changes, but by and large, it’s the same story about high schoolers killing monsters with the power of friendship. However, after playing through the remake, there’s one major change that feels like a proper modernizing of the story: the removal of an infamous, transphobic exchange between the game’s boy group and a character who appears to be a trans woman.

In the original Persona 3, there’s a scene where the party goes on a beach trip. Egged on by the class clown/horndog Junpei, the main character gets pulled into a scheme to pick up girls on the beach. After a few unsuccessful attempts, the boys meet a woman who propositions the group, and just as she’s about to leave with one of them, teammate Akihiko Sanada takes note of some stubble on her chin. The woman turns away and remarks that she “missed a spot,” and the game’s text window then puts a question mark at the end of her name “Beautiful lady?” in the English localization. Junpei then exclaims, “She’s a he,” and the boys run away in a trans panic.

In contrast, Persona 3 Reload approaches the scene differently. Rather than the encounter devolving into a transphobic joke, the woman is instead portrayed as a conspiracy theorist. She makes claims about the sun being replaced in the 1980s and tells the boys they’ll need to fork over 300,000 yen for her special sunscreen if they want to shield themselves from its harmful rays. The boys are immediately skeeved and run away.

In an independent translation obtained by Kotaku, we have confirmed the Japanese audio presents the scene the same way. So this isn’t a Persona 5 Royal situation in which the localization alters scenes for the English version while the Japanese version maintains a trope-ridden, homophobic scene—this appears to be a universal change. So if you were considering replaying Persona 3 Reload but did not want to encounter this scene again, you can rest assured that it didn’t survive the remake process. We reached out to Atlus for comment and didn’t hear back in time for publication.

The Persona series has had a very fraught relationship with queer identity, from this particular Persona 3 scene, or Persona 4’s treatment of queer self-discovery as a phase to be grown out of, or Persona 5’s only gay characters being older men who assault a minor. But it seems like the series is slowly trying to pivot its perspective on these topics. More recently, Persona 5 Tactica lets the player express romantic interest in men, and now Persona 3 Reload is retooling a transphobic scene entirely. The question remains if a hypothetical Persona 6 will take the next step and let the player engage in outright queer relationships or not. But this is at least a good step in removing a mean-spirited, transphobic scene that added nothing of value in the first place.

Read all that? Good, because I have questions:

I don't understand what the fuss is about, and how it is supposed to be a "trans panic" episode. Kotaku didn't report on what is exactly the original Japanese text, but let's assume the idea was really to make the character a trans woman. Let's look at the scenario from two angles:

1. She (yes, let's go with that) didn't transition completely and have male genital organs - I don't understand what they think is the logical conclusion of this situation? So imagine she doesn't have a stubble, they go back to the hotel room, take the clothes away and....

Is Kotaku implying that by the virtue of not being transphobic the MC will just casually suck the dick since "oh well, we made it to the room anyway"? If we take the current scientific knowledge that homosexuality is not a choice, you are born gay - do we disassociate genitalia from sex and sexual orientation? So the lady in question transitioned into a woman with a male penis, and since I as a heterosexual man are attracted to women I have no problem sucking on a penis?

Because as a 100% cis man I can tell you that is a BS. You can be Brad Pitt in "Troy", I am not touching your schlong.

2. She did transition, she has female genital organs - this is a more nuanced approach, one that I am sure 1st year sociology students gaslighting as Kotaku writers didn't intent to explore, but we will do it anyway. So we get into "informed consent" territory - do I as an MC have the right to require my potential romantic partner to disclose these sort of things i.e. I was born a man, always felt like a woman, etc. Frankly, I don't know. The closest parallel I can use is having protected sex while being HIV positive, but the comparison falls a bit flat - catching HIV from someone has an impact for the rest of your life vs. potential psychological trauma of learning you had sex with someone that was born a man? Now the question is how to quantify the trauma (if it is a trauma) of learning that fact?

Also, if the woman is a conspiracy theorist I would still smash that, no question asked. How is that a better solution?

 

[gaming_again]

The boys run away in a trans panic.

Trans panic.

Lame that they changed it.

 

[Con-Z-epT]

Drama - Community - Kotaku: Persona 3 Reload Does Away With The Original’s Transphobia

Persona 3 Reload is a mostly faithful recreation of the 2006 RPG. There are new social sim elements, new abilities, and a handful of quality-of-life changes, but by and large, it’s the same story about high schoolers killing monsters with the power of friendship. However, after playing through...

www.neogaf.com

 

[WitchHunter]

So Kotaku run the usual stupid piece the other day: https://kotaku.com/persona-3-reload-trans-scene-beautiful-lady-beach-1851206294

No need to click, here's the article:



Read all that? Good, because I have questions:

I don't understand what the fuss is about, and how it is supposed to be a "trans panic" episode. Kotaku didn't report on what is exactly the original Japanese text, but let's assume the idea was really to make the character a trans woman. Let's look at the scenario from two angles:

1. She (yes, let's go with that) didn't transition completely and have male genital organs - I don't understand what they think is the logical conclusion of this situation? So imagine she doesn't have a stubble, they go back to the hotel room, take the clothes away and....

Is Kotaku implying that by the virtue of not being transphobic the MC will just casually suck the dick since "oh well, we made it to the room anyway"? If we take the current scientific knowledge that homosexuality is not a choice, you are born gay - do we disassociate genitalia from sex and sexual orientation? So the lady in question transitioned into a woman with a male penis, and since I as a heterosexual man are attracted to women I have no problem sucking on a penis?

Because as a 100% cis man I can tell you that is a BS. You can be Brad Pitt in "Troy", I am not touching your schlong.

2. She did transition, she has female genital organs - this is a more nuanced approach, one that I am sure 1st year sociology students gaslighting as Kotaku writers didn't intent to explore, but we will do it anyway. So we get into "informed consent" territory - do I as an MC have the right to require my potential romantic partner to disclose these sort of things i.e. I was born a man, always felt like a woman, etc. Frankly, I don't know. The closest parallel I can use is having protected sex while being HIV positive, but the comparison falls a bit flat - catching HIV from someone has an impact for the rest of your life vs. potential psychological trauma of learning you had sex with someone that was born a man? Now the question is how to quantify the trauma (if it is a trauma) of learning that fact?

Also, if the woman is a conspiracy theorist I would still smash that, no question asked. How is that a better solution?

Oh, a few more decades and the Prozium pill will be a necessity. I don't really know wtf is going on in the US, but it's worrysome. The vice article is crazy. Will they refilm parts of the movie The Hangover, because that also sported even worse trans jokes...?!

 

[Varteras]

So Kotaku run the usual stupid piece the other day: https://kotaku.com/persona-3-reload-trans-scene-beautiful-lady-beach-1851206294

No need to click, here's the article:



Read all that? Good, because I have questions:

I don't understand what the fuss is about, and how it is supposed to be a "trans panic" episode. Kotaku didn't report on what is exactly the original Japanese text, but let's assume the idea was really to make the character a trans woman. Let's look at the scenario from two angles:

1. She (yes, let's go with that) didn't transition completely and have male genital organs - I don't understand what they think is the logical conclusion of this situation? So imagine she doesn't have a stubble, they go back to the hotel room, take the clothes away and....

Is Kotaku implying that by the virtue of not being transphobic the MC will just casually suck the dick since "oh well, we made it to the room anyway"? If we take the current scientific knowledge that homosexuality is not a choice, you are born gay - do we disassociate genitalia from sex and sexual orientation? So the lady in question transitioned into a woman with a male penis, and since I as a heterosexual man are attracted to women I have no problem sucking on a penis?

Because as a 100% cis man I can tell you that is a BS. You can be Brad Pitt in "Troy", I am not touching your schlong.

2. She did transition, she has female genital organs - this is a more nuanced approach, one that I am sure 1st year sociology students gaslighting as Kotaku writers didn't intent to explore, but we will do it anyway. So we get into "informed consent" territory - do I as an MC have the right to require my potential romantic partner to disclose these sort of things i.e. I was born a man, always felt like a woman, etc. Frankly, I don't know. The closest parallel I can use is having protected sex while being HIV positive, but the comparison falls a bit flat - catching HIV from someone has an impact for the rest of your life vs. potential psychological trauma of learning you had sex with someone that was born a man? Now the question is how to quantify the trauma (if it is a trauma) of learning that fact?

Also, if the woman is a conspiracy theorist I would still smash that, no question asked. How is that a better solution?

My body, my choice. Unless it's rushed vaccines or sucking dick. Then I must do as commanded.

 

[kyussman]

Please don't try and understand this nonsense.....it's an ideology designed to confuse reality.Humans can't change their sex,if someone tells you they can best not engage with them.

 

[killatopak]

Because as a 100% cis man I can tell you that is a BS. You can be Brad Pitt in "Troy", I am not touching your schlong.

 

[LordCBH]

potential psychological trauma of learning you had sex with someone that was born a man?

I would go take a bath with my toaster if it happened to me.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I would go take a bath with my toaster if it happened to me.

Meh..
I'm gay, I never touched a woman and have no desire or intentions to, and I found out I had sex once a trans man, and I just brushed it off. Looked like a man, had a dick, it's all that matters.

 

[skyfall]

I would go take a bath with my toaster if it happened to me.

 

[YCoCg]

It sorta feels like it backfired in a way because they just removed the character being trans and now have it as she's a crazy conspiracy theorist. So yay? You got them to erase a trans character?

 

[N30RYU]

Junpei should have tried to summon a persona from sHe...

Spoiler

/jk

 

[Sleepwalker]

I would bang a hot ass conspiracy theorist. Probably not for the best but what can you do.

Im definitely fleeing the room if a woman im gonna be with turns out to have a dick.

 

[McGILLAZ]

So Kotaku run the usual stupid piece the other day: https://kotaku.com/persona-3-reload-trans-scene-beautiful-lady-beach-1851206294

No need to click, here's the article:



Read all that? Good, because I have questions:

I don't understand what the fuss is about, and how it is supposed to be a "trans panic" episode. Kotaku didn't report on what is exactly the original Japanese text, but let's assume the idea was really to make the character a trans woman. Let's look at the scenario from two angles:

1. She (yes, let's go with that) didn't transition completely and have male genital organs - I don't understand what they think is the logical conclusion of this situation? So imagine she doesn't have a stubble, they go back to the hotel room, take the clothes away and....

Is Kotaku implying that by the virtue of not being transphobic the MC will just casually suck the dick since "oh well, we made it to the room anyway"? If we take the current scientific knowledge that homosexuality is not a choice, you are born gay - do we disassociate genitalia from sex and sexual orientation? So the lady in question transitioned into a woman with a male penis, and since I as a heterosexual man are attracted to women I have no problem sucking on a penis?

Because as a 100% cis man I can tell you that is a BS. You can be Brad Pitt in "Troy", I am not touching your schlong.

2. She did transition, she has female genital organs - this is a more nuanced approach, one that I am sure 1st year sociology students gaslighting as Kotaku writers didn't intent to explore, but we will do it anyway. So we get into "informed consent" territory - do I as an MC have the right to require my potential romantic partner to disclose these sort of things i.e. I was born a man, always felt like a woman, etc. Frankly, I don't know. The closest parallel I can use is having protected sex while being HIV positive, but the comparison falls a bit flat - catching HIV from someone has an impact for the rest of your life vs. potential psychological trauma of learning you had sex with someone that was born a man? Now the question is how to quantify the trauma (if it is a trauma) of learning that fact?

Also, if the woman is a conspiracy theorist I would still smash that, no question asked. How is that a better solution?

This exchange existed in the OG version of P3. We know it existed & now most people on the internet will know that it existed (even those that will be first time players) because of the games popularity...I'm sure people will want to google P3 vs P3 Reload and this highlighted "transphobic" exchange will likely be in one's search results.

My point is - people that played that game originally know this exchange existed and now folks who have never played know this exchange existed...so honestly, what was the point of cutting it out? Are people really less offended that the exchange is gone from this remake? I am more offended as a fan that a story I enjoyed playing through has been artificially softened at the behest of a developer who is offended for me.

Were individuals out there really sweating, waiting with bated breath before purchasing, solely based on whether or not this piece of the game exists in the remake?

Who gets to decide what's transphobic anyways? What's the measuring stick? What's the level of offense? Is there a thermometer or is it based on how shrill these goblins can shriek?

 

[adamsapple]

Ok, let's talk about this "Search" function.

Drama - Community - Kotaku: Persona 3 Reload Does Away With The Original’s Transphobia

Persona 3 Reload is a mostly faithful recreation of the 2006 RPG. There are new social sim elements, new abilities, and a handful of quality-of-life changes, but by and large, it’s the same story about high schoolers killing monsters with the power of friendship. However, after playing through...

www.neogaf.com

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

I'd like to quote the great Tone Loc here......

"But when she got undressed, it was a big ole mess.....Sheena was a man!"

I think any of us, regardless of sex, would be horrified if we were talking to/trying to get with someone and at the last minute realized it was someone of the opposite sex. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that scene for it to be changed. They caved to the mouthbreathing bluehairs, simple as that.

 

[TGO]

It's weird that they want inclusion but then remove stuff like this.
I mean if the character was into that, that would be different.
But if not, it's a realistic response and no one should take offence.
I wouldn't take offence if a girl turn me down and call her manphobic.
So why is any different

 

[Games of Today]

It just still boggles my mind that creators are now barred from making any kind of joke about straight men not wanting to fuck other men.

Not only that, but any of us who aren't into that are supposed to feel ashamed that we think that way and should not question if a woman has a beard? What the fuck is that.

Like, we're supposed to want that to happen and have no problem with it? Seriously fuck off.

Are there any gaming news outlets that call out Kotaku and other big journalism sites like this? I know Collin Moriarty does sometimes on Last Stand Media.

But are there any sites that write counter articles to this shit?

 

[John Bilbo]

Having a different opinion can be diagnosed on the spot as a phobia nowadays

 

[Fbh]

To answer your question, in places like Kotaku and Era it's unacceptable to acknowledge any sort of difference between trans women and biological women.
If a woman has a dick you are supposed to be completely fine with that because it's supposed to be a completely normal and natural thing for a woman to have. They think that as a straight man you shouldn't have any problem sucking a "female dick", and if you do you are transphobic.

 

[Camreezie]

Dont try and reason with the mentally ill....

 

[BaldingAshCrimson]

Beyond the whining in the comments of people who can't understand the simple difference between sex and gender, and transgender and transsexual

"She (Yeah, let's go with that)"

Just say you don't believe trans women are women, it's perfectly fine. If people think you are stupid, like I do, it shouldn't matter to you. Own up to your beliefs.

This change only has any value to me, if the original writer of the game is involved in this game, and HE himself took the initiative to change that.

If it wasn't him, and it was just some attempt by the American localization to change that scene in both the Japanese and American release, I don't care.

It's a completely faithful Remake, but we are only gonna cut out the parts that make the original creator look bad. So a new generation of players doesn't know he hold or held these beliefs.

 

[RoboFu]

I woke up in a trans sweat last night. I think I was having a transpiodic episode brought on by a trans panic attack. Maybe I should get my transblatter checked?

 

[Hydroxy]

Original joke is 100x funnier than the new one they replaced it with.

 

[Randall365]

Cool to think that if Ace Ventura came out today they’d be riots in the US!

 

[Shut0wen]

So Kotaku run the usual stupid piece the other day: https://kotaku.com/persona-3-reload-trans-scene-beautiful-lady-beach-1851206294

No need to click, here's the article:



Read all that? Good, because I have questions:

I don't understand what the fuss is about, and how it is supposed to be a "trans panic" episode. Kotaku didn't report on what is exactly the original Japanese text, but let's assume the idea was really to make the character a trans woman. Let's look at the scenario from two angles:

1. She (yes, let's go with that) didn't transition completely and have male genital organs - I don't understand what they think is the logical conclusion of this situation? So imagine she doesn't have a stubble, they go back to the hotel room, take the clothes away and....

Is Kotaku implying that by the virtue of not being transphobic the MC will just casually suck the dick since "oh well, we made it to the room anyway"? If we take the current scientific knowledge that homosexuality is not a choice, you are born gay - do we disassociate genitalia from sex and sexual orientation? So the lady in question transitioned into a woman with a male penis, and since I as a heterosexual man are attracted to women I have no problem sucking on a penis?

Because as a 100% cis man I can tell you that is a BS. You can be Brad Pitt in "Troy", I am not touching your schlong.

2. She did transition, she has female genital organs - this is a more nuanced approach, one that I am sure 1st year sociology students gaslighting as Kotaku writers didn't intent to explore, but we will do it anyway. So we get into "informed consent" territory - do I as an MC have the right to require my potential romantic partner to disclose these sort of things i.e. I was born a man, always felt like a woman, etc. Frankly, I don't know. The closest parallel I can use is having protected sex while being HIV positive, but the comparison falls a bit flat - catching HIV from someone has an impact for the rest of your life vs. potential psychological trauma of learning you had sex with someone that was born a man? Now the question is how to quantify the trauma (if it is a trauma) of learning that fact?

Also, if the woman is a conspiracy theorist I would still smash that, no question asked. How is that a better solution?

Thing is if they turned down this trans pixel is the nicest way possible its exactly the same as running away from them except satire is literally dead