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[Tripon]

An Oklahoma bill banning Advanced Placement U.S. History would also require schools to instruct students in a long list of “foundational documents,” including the Ten Commandments, two sermons and three speeches by Ronald Reagan.

The bill, authored by Oklahoma Rep. Dan Fisher, designates a total of 58 documents that “shall form the base level of academic content for all United States History courses offered in the schools in the state.” Many of the texts are uncontroversial and undoubtedly covered by the Advanced Placement U.S. History course, such as the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and Gettysburg address. But the bill also has an ideological and religious bent. In addition to 3 speeches by Reagan, the curriculum as includes a speech by George W. Bush but nothing from any Democratic president since Lyndon Johnson.

Fisher’s bill was approved by the Education committee on an 11-4 vote.
Opposition to the AP U.S. History test “can be traced back to retired high-school history teacher Larry S. Krieger.” On a conference call marshaling opposition to the test, Krieger said it offered “a consistently negative view of American history that highlights oppressors and exploiters.” Krieger teamed up with Jane Robbins, an anti-Common Core activists. (Some, including Oklahoma lawmakers, have conflated the Advanced Placement test with Common Core.) They have their own website: http://opposenewapstandards.us.

Krieger, Robbins and others were successful in convincing the Republican National Committee to pass a resolution blasting the Advanced Placement U.S. History course, saying it “reflected a radically revisionist view of American history that emphasizes negative aspects of our nation’s history while omitting or minimizing positive aspects.”

http://thinkprogress.org/education/...nts-study-ten-commandments-3-speeches-reagan/

So this is a thing now.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=993851&highlight=

 

[cirrhosis]

Midwest keeps fucking itself over

 

[Sub_Level]

The 10 commandments are actually pretty good general moral guidelines to live by. There's no reason for them to actually be presented to kids as literally the 10 commandments from the bible though unless in a historical theological study context.

Speeches from Reagan is fine but the lack of Democrat speeches too makes the bias obvious.

 

[SturokBGD]

I don't think this is as inflammatory as the topic title insinuates. If the Ten Commandments has it's place in the history of how your country was formed and developed then why wouldn't it be part of the studies? It's not like it's being taught as gospel. Like... I mean, Mein Kampf is racist twaddle, but it has it's place in the study of where Hitler was coming from.

 

[CornBurrito]

The 10 commandments are actually pretty good general moral guidelines to live by. There's no reason for them to actually be presented to kids as literally the 10 commandments from the bible though unless in a historical theological study context.

Speeches from Reagan is fine but the lack of Democrat speeches too makes the bias obvious.

No they really aren't good general moral guidelines. The latter 6 are good general moral guidelines. But you're fucked if you think the first four are needed for a person to be moral.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

I don't get how you're going to spin those as general moral guidelines when they basically deal with forbidding polytheism, and the practice of non-Abrahamic religions.

 

[Africanus]

Midwest keeps fucking itself over

Isn't Oklahoma the "South"?
Regardless, as I've previously mentioned, this result infuriates me as a current A.P. U.S. History student.

 

[HK-47]

The 10 commandments are actually pretty good general moral guidelines to live by. There's no reason for them to actually be presented to kids as literally the 10 commandments from the bible though unless in a historical theological study context.

Speeches from Reagan is fine but the lack of Democrat speeches too makes the bias obvious.

What? Half the commandments are pointless.

 

[CornBurrito]

What?

People forget the first 4 apparently. Or they really believe you can't be a moral person if you're atheist/polytheist/agnostic/buddhist. Or if you happen to practice a religion that uses physical icons in its worship.

 

[demon]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

Last I recall from sunday school the Ten Commandments are pretty fundamental tenets of Christianity.

These people are clowns.

 

[esms]

I'm a little rusty on my American history, but didn't Moses receive the Ten Commandments from George Washington in the Rocky Mountains?

That seems relevant, if true.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I don't think this is as inflammatory as the topic title insinuates. If the Ten Commandments has it's place in the history of how your country was formed and developed then why wouldn't it be part of the studies? It's not like it's being taught as gospel. Like... I mean, Mein Kampf is racist twaddle, but it has it's place in the study of where Hitler was coming from.

Its incredibly inflammatory. It's essentially brain washing to make sure more students are of republican ideals. The ten commandments have little to do with AP US history. If we are teaching the ten commandments then we should include more major religions beliefs such as Islam, Buddhism, etc. and also include Atheism.

They are going to purposefully omit anything wrong the US did such as the treatment of Native Americans. I wouldn't be surprised if they omit a lot of the necessary government regulation in the 1890-1920's in regards to labor conditions and unions. As well as glossing over Nixon's controversy.

 

[Patryn]

This whole thing is actually an indirect attack on universities and their perceived liberal bias.

However, the only people who will end up getting hurt are the students who will no longer have the ability to get cheap college credit via the AP exams.

 

[Stinkles]

Supreme Court or will it be defeated in the state?

 

[Armaros]

I don't think this is as inflammatory as the topic title insinuates. If the Ten Commandments has it's place in the history of how your country was formed and developed then why wouldn't it be part of the studies? It's not like it's being taught as gospel. Like... I mean, Mein Kampf is racist twaddle, but it has it's place in the study of where Hitler was coming from.

So learning religous 'law' from one particular relgion and no others? No mentions of laws from other relgions?
With everything else being generally secular or not directly from a relgious source?

Have fun in federal court.

 

[cirrhosis]

Isn't Oklahoma the "South"?
Regardless, as I've previously mentioned, this result infuriates me as a current A.P. U.S. History student.

I've always considered it the Midwest. Google-fu says I'm mostly wrong though. As a History undergrad myself I feel disappointed.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

This hurts the kids more than anything else. Kids trying to do AP courses for college/personal game shouldn't be held back by backwardsness.

 

[Torquill]

Isn't Oklahoma the "South"?.

No.

 

[adj_noun]

An Oklahoma bill banning Advanced Placement U.S. History would also require schools to instruct students in a long list of “foundational documents,” including the Ten Commandments, two sermons and three speeches by Ronald Reagan.

The whole Saint Reagan thing is supposed to be a joke.

 

[Grimpadlock]

So learning religous 'law' from one particular relgion and no others? No mentions of laws from other relgions?
With everything else being generally secular or not directly from a relgious source?

Have fun in federal court.

I mean it's actually two religions but yeah, you made your point.

 

[WalkMan]

That's fair, we get diversity in education and students get to be exposed to subject matter they wouldn't have had beforehand.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Supreme Court or will it be defeated in the state?

When most of our officials are as old as dinosaur Jesus himself and are some of the most religious zealots alive, there's no chance this will stop with the state.

 

[GaimeGuy]

People forget the first 4 apparently. Or they really believe you can't be a moral person if you're atheist/polytheist/agnostic/buddhist. Or if you happen to practice a religion that uses physical icons in its worship.

Christians don't even honor the original Sabbath, and Jesus considered divorce to be a form of adultery, but divorce certainly doesn't seem to be frowned upon.

 

[Relentless 757]

I think a "world religion" class would work well, considering religion is an important concept in history, but placing focus on one religion (Christianity) to the point where it seems they are enforcing the religion's "law" sounds extremely unconstitutional on the public school level.

And I don't know why, but the three Reagan speeches had me rolling haha. That Reagan boner rages on for Republicans.

 

[Sub_Level]

No they really aren't good general moral guidelines. The latter 6 are good general moral guidelines. But you're fucked if you think the first four are needed for a person to be moral.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

I don't get how you're going to spin those as general moral guidelines when they basically deal with forbidding polytheism, and the practice of non-Abrahamic religions.

What? Half the commandments are pointless.

Yeah that's true.

 

[Africanus]

No.

I'd question it based on the proximity to Texas.
Wikipedia's map reaffirms my assertion.

 

[HK-47]

The whole Saint Reagan thing is supposed to be a joke.

It definitely isnt a joke to enough Americans.

 

[The Technomancer]

Midwest keeps fucking itself over

There's the midwest, and then there's the midwest, you know? They should be at least two regions.

 

[reckless]

No.

Well its not The South, but it is "the south".

 

[cirrhosis]

There's the midwest, and then there's the midwest, you know? They should be at least two regions.

I'd agree to that.

Also, Maryland is a southern state according to Wikipedia? aw, hell no. but enough of a derail.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

There's the midwest, and then there's the midwest, you know? They should be at least two regions.

Why isn't there just a region called the north? Or how about the Great Lakes states?

 

[Anion]

Lol the Reagan part is killing me. You guys couldn't keep it at just banning the AP test?

IMO that AP test was good. I loved the class too, I learned a lot and had fun

 

[Damaniel]

I don't think this is as inflammatory as the topic title insinuates. If the Ten Commandments has it's place in the history of how your country was formed and developed then why wouldn't it be part of the studies? It's not like it's being taught as gospel. Like... I mean, Mein Kampf is racist twaddle, but it has it's place in the study of where Hitler was coming from.

They don't care about the Ten Commandments as a historical document - they care about it as a religious document. They see it as the gateway to mandatory Bible study, using the same logic you do - "It's historical? Why not teach it?" Then, you start to add some of the stuff in Genesis under the auspices of an "examination of creation stories in religion" (while conveniently omitting the creation stories of other religions), and eventually they slip in the rest of the Bible too. Sure, it sounds very slippery slope-y, but in this case, the slippery slope is very intentional.

Whenever a conservative brings up 'religious document' and schools, your first thought should be indoctrination, not history. (The Reagan thing is amusing, too. I'd argue that speeches from Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln would be a lot more relevant, but we all know what southern states think of Lincoln...)

 

[Plinko]

THREE Reagan speeches? LOL...which ones?

 

[PJV3]

How utterly fucked up. Just make membership of the Republican party mandatory and get it over with.

 

[Frankenstrat]

Shoveling this shit over to students who would otherwise be studying college-level history? FOH. Jesus Christ. I hope this gets shot down completely.

 

[Plinko]

Krieger, Robbins and others were successful in convincing the Republican National Committee to pass a resolution blasting the Advanced Placement U.S. History course, saying it “reflected a radically revisionist view of American history that emphasizes negative aspects of our nation’s history while omitting or minimizing positive aspects.”

Based on the content they chose, I'm pretty sure their definition of "negative" is "democrat" and "positive" is "republican."

 

[Africanus]

I'd agree to that.

Also, Maryland is a southern state according to Wikipedia? aw, hell no. but enough of a derail.

If we recall history, during the American Civil War, Maryland was one of the border states that chose to support the Union which still contained slavery.

 

[Frankenstrat]

Based on the content they chose, I'm pretty sure their definition of "negative" is "democrat" and "positive" is "republican."

Lol they make it sound like the textbooks were written by Oliver Stone. Whose history books I quite enjoyed, actually.

 

[cirrhosis]

If we recall history, during the American Civil War, Maryland was one of the border states that chose to support the Union which still contained slavery.

Yeah, I remember that. Never have considered it to be part of the South, still. But I'm the outlier here as Oklahoma thing showed.

I'm in Virginia and view Maryland as "in the north", while we're "in the south", which skews my perception significantly.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Ya know what.... fine. You do you, Oklahoma.

 

[vas_a_morir]

No they really aren't good general moral guidelines. The latter 6 are good general moral guidelines. But you're fucked if you think the first four are needed for a person to be moral.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

I don't get how you're going to spin those as general moral guidelines when they basically deal with forbidding polytheism, and the practice of non-Abrahamic religions.

So if you were to say "Goddamn do I love this statue of Beelzebub that I spent all Saturday working on' you might be in for trouble, huh?

 

[LX_Theo]

Based on the content they chose, I'm pretty sure their definition of "negative" is "democrat" and "positive" is "republican."

Probably the difference between "we are and have been great so we should stay to traditional values" versus "we can move forward to become a better country and culture". Which is basically the difference between Republican and Democrat in many aspects anyways.

The 10 commandments are actually pretty good general moral guidelines to live by. There's no reason for them to actually be presented to kids as literally the 10 commandments from the bible though unless in a historical theological study context.

Speeches from Reagan is fine but the lack of Democrat speeches too makes the bias obvious.

Most of the commandments are moral concepts that are useless to learn about by the time you'd be taking AP US History (as in, if those are part of your morals, then you already know enough for them to help you). Even at younger ages, the 10 commandments are hardly necessary to get those sort of moral principles on your mind.

 

[Zombine]

"Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife."

Yeah that's great and all, but what if she's really hot?

 

[vas_a_morir]

Probably the difference between "we are and have been great so we should stay to traditional values" versus "we can move forward to become a better country and culture". Which is basically the difference between Republican and Democrat in many aspects anyways.

Both are subservient to their clandestine corporate benefactors. They just use different appeals to capture different markets.And I'm not saying that like I'm some young wanna-be poly-sci 101 pseudo-intellectual or anything. When I was young, I was like '...and we gotta do something about it!" but now I'm damn near 30 I'm like "ehhh watcha gon' do."

Yeah that's great and all, but what if she's really hot and feels like her marriage isn't fulfilling?

You should kill her husband, steal his wife, have sex with her behind your wife's back, and then lie to police saying it was your shitty mother and father's fault, those assholes. And then while you are having sex with her go "Goddamn, remind me to give praise to my statue of Shiva after work Saturday*!" Is that all of them?

*(now Sunday)

 

[Angelus Errare]

Note to self, never moving to Oklahoma.

 

[M0nochromatic]

Oklahoma is the most southern Midwest state. It gives the actual South a run for its money. Remember the 10 commandants statute and the statue of Baphomet people wanted to put up? That caused quite commotion in religious circles.

 

[metalmonstar]

No they really aren't good general moral guidelines. The latter 6 are good general moral guidelines. But you're fucked if you think the first four are needed for a person to be moral.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

I don't get how you're going to spin those as general moral guidelines when they basically deal with forbidding polytheism, and the practice of non-Abrahamic religions.

Dunno how you could spin the first one but the rest are pretty easy.
2. Do not worship people or objects
3. Don't swear
4. Everyone needs a day of rest.


I am a bit biased I took AP European History because it is a ton more exciting than US History. However AP Euro is hardly accepted anywhere as more than an elective unless you are going into some kind of history major. One day schools will stop trying to sugar coat history.

 

[adj_noun]

3. Don't swear

And thus were the seeds of rebellion sown.

 

[JustenP88]

Isn't Oklahoma the "South"?
Regardless, as I've previously mentioned, this result infuriates me as a current A.P. U.S. History student.

As an Oklahoman, I don't know what the hell we are.