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[ZOONAMI]

Ummm, not everyone in rural america is a christian, then there are those that probably hardly ever read the bible and don't go to church more than twice a year. And then I'd say a small fraction of rural folks are what you'd consider practicing Christians.

I'm from rural america and this is pretty anecdotal, but not everyone is some bleeding heart Jesus freak. Most people couldn't care less.

The problem with rural america is based on economics, if you don't commute to a larger metro area you probably don't have a job or if you do you probably aren't making more than $10-$15 an hour, and that's probably because you own some sort of business that's lucky to still even be open for business.

Everything has gone to services and services thrive in population centers. Even the remaining manufacturing has moved closer to urban areas to save on logistic costs. A lot of the mining is drying up to, and that shit is terrible for your health so it's probably better to not work a mining job in the long run. There aren't a lot of options other than moving closer to the city or commuting.

 

[echoshifting]

As someone who was born and raised in a Catholic family I will tell you this, being conditioned from as early as you can remember to believe something a certain way is really fuckin hard to overcome, but it is doable. I am still struggling through the post religion transition because it did dictate so many of my world views for over 20 years, but I am happy to say things have turned better over the past 6 months. This is why all I can do in regards to Trump supporters is empathize with them, be compassionate, and keep my mind open, because at one point my entire world view was skewed by my upbringing.

I see it on here a lot that they are a lost cause and should be cut out of our lives, but I simply cannot stand by that. The sheer number of factors that lead people to be who they are is MASSIVE. They didn't choose their parents, they didn't choose their birth place, they didn't choose their family, they didn't choose their community, they didn't choose their early education etc etc. We have to remember this. We have to remember that when you are surrounded by all those factors that are designed to reinforce your already skewed beliefs breaking away is hard. I can't begin to describe how many times I brought up my qualms about my religion to my family only to have them shot down and have the biases reaffirmed.

You may be thinking that I am not holding people accountable, but we also have to remember that most people don't live in the present. This is where you remind people (and this isn't easy) that is all starts now. Right now is where our power to change is, and we have to be gentle because people love to always pass blame back and back forever and ever. So we understand their past, and we do our best to guide them in the present.

You wanna know why it takes long to change in these situations? It is because we as humans have forgot just how many complex pieces of life assist in dictating our reality. You know why people want you to try and understand a racist instead of just calling them a racist and casting them aside? It is because there is so much more to the human story, and being open and compassion to someone who unfortunately was raised surrounded by hateful views needs guidance, not a fuck you and a door in their face. We have to keep our hearts open even when those we are dealing with are breaking them, and we need to deeply converse and uncover why this individual thinks the way they do.

This is a pretty good post and I agree with you for the most part right up to the end, there (though my feelings on Trump supporters are quite different). I was raised Episcopalian and pulling away from the church was a long and deeply painful process. I can relate to a lot of what you're saying there.

Indoctrination into racism is a bit stickier. As a white dude I can say "wow that's heartbreaking." But my Cultural Muslim friends have to say "wow that's dangerous." They have human stories too, and those stories are infinitely more heartbreaking than the ignorant racist who doesn't know better because that's how he was raised. When you become an adult you have to take responsibility for your own beliefs, and a failure to critically assess them is a failure on the part of the racist, not on society and certainly not on those they would oppress or attack. One of the major thrusts of articles like this is their failure to do that.

 

[Bolivar687]

What a terrible argument.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

is such remarkably strident horseshit that it continues to amaze how people actually think and act as if they believe it.

How else would you describe people who blame Obama for the decline of the coal industry, and trash welfare and social programs while still relying on it to survive? That line honestly describes Beattville, KY (the poorest white town in America) to a T.

I feel like the problem with these rural areas is that anyone with an open mind will already be planning to simply move to a better place at the earliest opportunity.

The ones left behind are intransigent.

Yeah, that's generally true.

Well, I also think that throwing out the idea there aren't some policies we can do better on in regards to how we approach them can't improve how we perform in some areas, isn't right.

Like guns. Being the anti-gun party gives us nothing and costs us seats. People in rural America love guns and democrats who go out of there way to prove that they don't think anyone who likes guns is an evil hick regularly out perform others. Kander's gun assembly ad was probably the best ad any Dem ran this entire cycle, and performed 16 points ahead of Hillary in the state.

Doesn't mean we have to completely abandon voting for background checks or whatever.. But there's a reason dudes like Ted Cruz post videos online shooting ducks out in the woods or eating bacon that got cooked from being wrapped on the end of an m-16.. Shit works.

But Clinton isn't anti-gun. It's a myth that just keeps getting repeated. People repeated that myth about Obama too, how he was coming for their guns, and of course he didn't do that, and neither would have Clinton. But because "she's untrustworthy" or whatever, no matter how many times she repeats "I support the 2nd amendment", it won't make a difference.

How do you combat the spread of misinformation or outright lies? How do you reach a group that is naturally isolated and use the little voice they have to vote into power people who try to turn the system against minority groups? They have radio, TV stations and internet sites that reinforce their opinion. They have politicians who pander to their hatred and make them feel like they are right. They are then told by all of these sources not to believe ANYTHING from any other source. Ignore facts from places other then us because they are LIES. How do you educate people who don't want to be educated?

All of this is spot-on. And yeah, I have no idea how to reach these people. I often think that Democrats should just give up on them and focus on the more wishy-washy, waffling ones, I guess?

 

[yanipheonu]

Reflexivity is important. Judging rural America from an urban standpoint can be done, but it takes a lot of self reflection,

Is Rural America 'bad' because it actually has fundamental problem to all humankind?
Or is it 'bad' because it's different, made opposite of the urban?

Not that I don't appreciate the Urban appeals of individual freedom and cosmopolitan life but we can't just judge other cultures as The Other, and therefore, hostile.

Rural isn't one set kind of place either. Some rural areas are more city-like than others. Some are more suburban or are a "rurban" hybrid. What definition of rural are we even working with? Many people do not agree what rural even means.

The whole thing is... Problematic.

 

[Jpop]

It is about understanding them.

It is about understanding their issues, social and economical, and reaching out and bettering those.

Until then we aren't going to see a change.

 

[Toxi]

Ummm, not everyone in rural america is a christian, then there are those that probably hardly ever read the bible and don't go to church more than twice a year. And then I'd say a small fraction of rural folks are why youd consider practicing Christians.

No, rural Americans have repeatedly demonstrated stronger religious beliefs on national average, and this includes church attendance.

Though what's really lost when you're looking at a national average is that it depends on region, with certain regions having way more than the national average and others being pretty areligious.

 

[ZOONAMI]

No, rural Americans have repeatedly demonstrated stronger religious beliefs on national average, and this includes church attendance.

I'm not saying religion isn't more common or church attendance isn't higher in rural america, but it still isn't ubiquitous. This thread paints it like well duh all the rural folk beleive in an old stupid ass book. Its more complicated than that.

 

[Yoritomo]

As someone who was born and raised in a Catholic family I will tell you this, being conditioned from as early as you can remember to believe something a certain way is really fuckin hard to overcome, but it is doable. I am still struggling through the post religion transition because it did dictate so many of my world views for over 20 years, but I am happy to say things have turned better over the past 6 months. This is why all I can do in regards to Trump supporters is empathize with them, be compassionate, and keep my mind open, because at one point my entire world view was skewed by my upbringing.

I see it on here a lot that they are a lost cause and should be cut out of our lives, but I simply cannot stand by that. The sheer number of factors that lead people to be who they are is MASSIVE. They didn't choose their parents, they didn't choose their birth place, they didn't choose their family, they didn't choose their community, they didn't choose their early education etc etc. We have to remember this. We have to remember that when you are surrounded by all those factors that are designed to reinforce your already skewed beliefs breaking away is hard. I can't begin to describe how many times I brought up my qualms about my religion to my family only to have them shot down and have the biases reaffirmed.

You may be thinking that I am not holding people accountable, but we also have to remember that most people don't live in the present. This is where you remind people (and this isn't easy) that is all starts now. Right now is where our power to change is, and we have to be gentle because people love to always pass blame back and back forever and ever. So we understand their past, and we do our best to guide them in the present.

You wanna know why it takes long to change in these situations? It is because we as humans have forgot just how many complex pieces of life assist in dictating our reality. You know why people want you to try and understand a racist instead of just calling them a racist and casting them aside? It is because there is so much more to the human story, and being open and compassion to someone who unfortunately was raised surrounded by hateful views needs guidance, not a fuck you and a door in their face. We have to keep our hearts open even when those we are dealing with are breaking them, and we need to deeply converse and uncover why this individual thinks the way they do.

I used to be mormon. My wife and children formally left mormonism and its probably the deepest most painful thing in the minds of my parents and my in-laws.

It was an upending of every aspect of our lives, social, intellectual, spiritual, and I had to formally re-evaluate every single deeply held belief I have.

There is now a formal barrier in place that will exclude me from any extended mormon family member's weddings.

I'm a pretty staunch atheist but I'll be happy to bow my head with my family on Thanksgiving while someone with belief says a prayer.

Want to know the worst part of this liberal line in the sand with relatives and rural whites? It's confirming a deeply held fear of rural and social conservatives that liberals are trying to destroy the family.

 

[HylianTom]

I've never completely bought the idea that Urban America doesn't "get" Rural America.

A fair chunk of Urban America grew-up within, spent time in, went to college in, and/or has relatives in Rural America. Their knowledge of Rural America is shared with other inhabitants of Urban America. They get Rural America.. which likely plays a role in why they've chosen to be a part of Urban America instead.

 

[Misha]

No, rural Americans have repeatedly demonstrated stronger religious beliefs on national average, and this includes church attendance.

Anecdotal but I've found that most people where I live keep the values from their religion even without church attendance. Church attendance seems to actually make them remember the more positive values.



The entire topic is frustrating to me my friends and family all fit this kind of thing since they're who I grew up with. I get to see my friend complain about Obamacare while wanting better insurance for his back injury and my parents complaining about Hillary taking their guns and also I have to deal with coming out to the people I know at some point.
Everything I say ends up being met by troll logic. Misdirection, half truths and complete fabrications. Half the time you can paint a direct line back to Rush Limbaugh due to how specific their arguments are. I just have no idea how to deal with them constantly being immersed and reinforced in their echochamber. There's an excuse for everything and a reason why someone else is at fault.

I definitely do think having them deal with more diversity would help but I don't know how that would be feasible. But hey I made it past that so there's hope

 

[obijkenobi]

I used to be mormon. My wife and children formally left mormonism and its probably the deepest most painful thing in the minds of my parents and my in-laws.

It was an upending of every aspect of our lives, social, intellectual, spiritual, and I had to formally re-evaluate every single deeply held belief I have.

There is now a formal barrier in place that will exclude me from any extended mormon family member's weddings.

I'm a pretty staunch atheist but I'll be happy to bow my head with my family on Thanksgiving while someone with belief says a prayer.

Want to know the worst part of this liberal line in the sand with relatives and rural whites? It's confirming a deeply held fear of rural and social conservatives that liberals are trying to destroy the family.

Unless I am misreading this, your conservative famimy chose to disown you because you arent practicing. How is that on liberals? My dad didnt disown me because I stopped going to church even though he is a devout Catholic.

 

[Goliath]

Anecdotal but I've found that most people where I live keep the values from their religion even without church attendance. Church attendance seems to actually make them remember the more positive values.



The entire topic is frustrating to me my friends and family all fit this kind of thing since they're who I grew up with. I get to see my friend complain about Obamacare while wanting better insurance for his back injury and my parents complaining about Hillary taking their guns and also I have to deal with coming out to the people I know at some point.
Everything I say ends up being met by troll logic. Misdirection, half truths and complete fabrications. Half the time you can paint a direct line back to Rush Limbaugh due to how specific their arguments are. I just have no idea how to deal with them constantly being immersed and reinforced in their echochamber. There's an excuse for everything and a reason why someone else is at fault.

I definitely do think having them deal with more diversity would help but I don't know how that would be feasible. But hey I made it past that so there's hope

I sympathize with your plight. I moved around a lot and some of my friends have similar backwards mentalities and when confronted with a debate where I provide facts I just get the same BS argument with no facts to back their side up. Diversity would help but only if they expose themselves to it. They can easily segregate themselves in a diverse community and use bad interactions with minorities on the street to support their argument.

 

[Fury451]

I thought this was a good article that opposes the "if only us liberal elites took the time to understand these poor misunderstand ruralites" viewpoint.





http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

This comes across exactly like a "liberal elite fails to understand these people" article.

 

[Abinash117]

I think some of the points is valid . Many places in the Rural parts of the country is declining, and I think the person was right in about the contradiction the many of people have with not supporting measures that they already benefit from or would.

A lot of them do receive benefits from the government like food stamps and such cutting those would hurt them. Cutting taxes wouldn't largely benefit them because a quite a few probably don't pay income taxes because they are poor. Cutting taxes would reduce the revenue of the federal government who would have to cut back of the benefits.

What is going on I believe is the capitalistic system really at play here. Companies are moving jobs outside of country simply because it is cheaper, and while we are manufacturing output is extremely high, many of those jobs are moving towards automation.

Unless Trump cracks down of the companies doing that, which is going to meet with backlash by companies and parts of the GOP. Rural parts of the country will continue to die.

 

[Goliath]

This comes across exactly like a "liberal elite fails to understand these people" article.

Yea but the reality of changing someone's opinion on racism that has been instilled in them by highly respected members of the community, parents, uncles etc. is no easy feet. The idea that anyone can convince a racist, even a family member, with patients and love is ridiculous. Most people don't have the communication skills to persuade someone to abandon their mentality and admit they are wrong and most people won't have the same level of respect from the racist person. Try convincing a racist 60-70 year old that blacks and whites can intermingle. Not an easy feet, even if your their loving little grandson or daughter. They are convinced their age comes with wisdom and you will rarely know more then they do.

 

[dreams]

You don't live where I do then. In the rural communities in northern Missouri, it's basically constant "Obama is the Antichrist", "Obama is going to declare martial law and take over as a Muslim dictator", "Obama is going to take our guns", "Obama is a [insert racial slur here]", and other such bullshit.

It's even worse in Iowa and Arkansas. The entire time I've lived here and gone back and forth between these states, I have NEVER even heard anyone refer to Barack as the President.

It's that insane.

I can cosign this. I'm from ND, grew up in a town of 750. My hometown and all the small towns around it were/are like this.