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[supermackem]

It's funny, 5-6 years ago. The brand was unstoppable. PS3 was the system for next gen, PSP was the same for the handhelds, and they were the company to beat. Turned out the PS3 hasn't even sold 1/3 of what the PS2 has, while still being billions in the hole. PSP turned out to be a software flop for an actual successful system. Only decay happened. They'll recover for sure, but in a pathetic shell of their former selves.

Its all swings and round about, i mean who saw nintendo hitting with ds or wii.

 

[beast786]

I think one thing we learned , nothing is guaranteed. Especially when you are on top.

PS2 standard is just to high. It was once in a lifetime success in video games that I dont think will ever be broken or matched.

But just looking from past and how PS3 did not live up to PS2. Same can be said about 3DS to DS.

What I wanna see is if wii2 will follow that trend.

 

[Lonely1]

Although I don't believe that the PSN is on danger (of becoming irrelevant, etc) has anyone measured the possible costs of this PSN problem? Has the Sony stock reacted negatively at all?

 

[Lion Heart]

So what are you suggesting with that? Because if I think what it is I could very well link the thread and be done with a shitty and trashy reply. Don't bother quoting if you cannot form an argument from your own mind and not from another thread which has nothing to do with what I posted because I specifically pointed out that I own all consoles and I don't give a shit. If I were a fanboy it would be towards Nintendo... and even I say the Wii is a piece of shit.

Just sayin ----->http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27501558&postcount=130

Spoiler

Jk dude

 

[shintoki]

The Playstation brand is affected. Playstation is no longer the "to-go" place for core gaming, that spot has been taking by 360. Sales comparison and software sales comparison tell this story. Generally games underperform on PS3. GENERALLY being the keyword. Every once in a while comes a freak. Yes, Sony is doing good in Europe and Japan, but the current big market is USA and there Microsoft has Sony in a stale mate.

Reasoning: Xbox 360 sales have been consistently high since the Slim version, to the point its the #1 console. Since Christmas the PS3 slim effect has worn out and that's being refflected in sales. The unit sold deficit equalizes what the 360 losses in Japan sales, with Europe being mostly Sony land (though from what I know a close race). Worldwide Sales... yes they are even. But the point of this article is to state what we all know... Playstation is no longer the console emperor, and its falling compared to what it was before even if sales have somewhat picked up. The truth is that the USA is the main market, and that's where the 360 rules, and so it will generally receive better support. Come next generation, if Microsoft plays its hand very wisely, it could take Sony by storm.

I don't really see why the spot has been taken by 360 either. The sales for the two systems aren't drastically different. Last month, it sold more than 317k, putting it somewhere around 100k of 360. Still a lot, but there is no PS2-Xbox/Cube difference. Or any sort of drastic difference where a large publisher can calmly ignore one while supporting the other without 1st party support. I think it's why people call them the HD Twins(Or other variations).

I'll say the opposite, it's either game to win or lose next gen. PS3 still does well enough in all the major markets, where if Sony got their game back together. They could easily push past a lot of the negativity similar to what Nintendo did with DS/Wii.

Adding on one more, bit tried so my shit is a bit weak right now. Most of the go to titles for the gen have been multiplatform. While 360 is the preferred one right now, the reverse could easily ensue. I'll fix it up later when I've slept a bit or eaten... I don't know

 

[Relix]

I don't really see why the spot has been taken by 360 either. The sales for the two systems aren't drastically different. Last month, it sold more than 317k, putting it somewhere around 100k of 360. Still a lot, but there is no PS2-Xbox/Cube difference. Or any sort of drastic difference where a large publisher can calmly ignore one while supporting the other without 1st party support. I think it's why people call them the HD Twins(Or other variations).

Exactly! Which is why I said that the 360 has a lead over PS3 in USA, but overall world sales equalize that and give them even sales basically. From my point of view I believe that Microsoft didn't do a great job with 360 initially... Sony basically shot itself in the foot repeatedly and Microsoft quickly capitalized on that. Took out the winds off the Sony sails... aided by the Wii Hurricane somewhere not far away. Thing is... compared to PS2... the PS3 is a huge economical failure to Sony. I am not too "into" the gaming world these days (mostly play SP games and fighting games with the occasional shooter) but from what I've gathered the 360 has an edge over the PS3 in the hardcore gamer group.

And that doesn't mean Sony has shitty games... I mean... I loved Killzone 2 & 3, Uncharted is awesome, LBP is fun... etc... Sony has Microsoft beat in first parties very badly. Like fucking bloodied. Yet Microsoft somehow holds their own with Halo and Gears, and maybe some original IP here and there.. and these days that's extinct. Why does this happen? ask yourself that and you will find on your own why I believe at the end of the day Microsoft has been vastly successful over the PS3.

Friendly Tip: They finally stopped Sony from "owning" every family room is one of those success bullet points.

 

[pharmboy044]

So what are you suggesting with that? Because if I think what it is I could very well link the thread and be done with a shitty and trashy reply. Don't bother quoting if you cannot form an argument from your own mind and not from another thread which has nothing to do with what I posted because I specifically pointed out that I own all consoles and I don't give a shit. If I were a fanboy it would be towards Nintendo... and even I say the Wii is a piece of shit.

Like Lion Heart mentioned, it was only a joke.
But I find it funny when someone has to clarify their statement by mentioning they have all three systems so people don't automatically assume there's any bias in that individuals opinion.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Sony handled this generation awfully. Had they not had infinite money from their other stuff, they would be done.

They got cocky from their success with the PS2 and used the PS3 as a commercial for their new cd format. They launched with a high price and made arrogant comments like "get two jobs." The price was so high, they had to scramble around to try and cut out features that could artificially lower the price.

Their PSP line was expensive and suffered from exactly the same problems every single other handheld system that isn't made by Nintendo suffered from. Poor battery life. It also had the added benefit of an awful memory system. Piracy kept the PSP alive, along with Monster Hunter, but it still wasn't the breakout success Sony was expecting.

The PSP Go was a joke. A literal joke. It didn't need to exist. The PS2 still sells more than the PSP Go, that's how bad it is. Nobody should have green lit this idea.

Move was not as successful or as well known as Kinect or the Wii. Most people see a display for it, and assume it's just a new, funny looking, Wii Remote made by some third party. And yes, I actually have heard many people say that.


It's almost like Sony said "we're better than 30 years of video game market history. We're going to do everything wrong that caused every other failed system to fail, because we're Sony!"
And it didn't work


Sony is going to charge 399.99 for it. They're not even trying to give value anymore

Huh? How do you know?

 

[Relix]

Like Lion Heart mentioned, it was only a joke.
But I find it funny when someone has to clarify their statement by mentioning they have all three systems so people don't automatically assume there's any bias in that individuals opinion.

My sarcasm-joke meter is broken =(. And I am sightly drunk too. But yes... these days people will attack you on any weakness you show so pointing that out once more is at least a somewhat half-assed defense. Makes for something at least! No offense meant though, I believed I had posted a

"Or if I totally misunderstood this then sorry"

at the end of the post. Guess I didn't. I am not a fan or believer of attacking people when in an argument, that's weak.

 

[sun-drop]

If MS and the Xbox brand can weather the RROD fiasco I'd say these brands are pretty much bullet proof with their respective audiences.

That is unless something insane happens like the 3DS is discovered to be made with kitten souls or the NGP gets it's power by draining the life force of babies.

this.

i mean the launch 360's had to be the biggest slap in the face to comsumers ever ..no product should be launched like that, period ..and yet ... no one cared it seems ... so yeh ... nah. people like their entertainment products and as long as sony keep making impressive bits of kit backed up by good games ...it's biz as usual.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I am not too "into" the gaming world these days (mostly play SP games and fighting games with the occasional shooter) but from what I've gathered the 360 has an edge over the PS3 in the hardcore gamer group.

They're about equal in that regard. Many people here would tell you that PS3 is actually in the lead right now, as far as core games go. The mainstream consumer (in the US) still prefers the 360.

And that doesn't mean Sony has shitty games... I mean... I loved Killzone 2 & 3, Uncharted is awesome, LBP is fun... etc... Sony has Microsoft beat in first parties very badly. Like fucking bloodied. Yet Microsoft somehow holds their own with Halo and Gears, and maybe some original IP here and there.. and these days that's extinct. Why does this happen?

They have vastly different strategies when it comes to first party releases, they always have. But is one intrinsically better than the other? It depends on who you ask, but I don't thinks so. Looking at hard data, they're both achieving the same thing (sales) in different ways, and they're both doing fine.

 

[Relix]

They have vastly different strategies when it comes to first party releases, they always have. But is one intrinsically better than the other? It depends on who you ask, but I don't thinks so. Looking at hard data, they're both achieving the same thing (sales) in different ways, and they're both doing fine.

I just think Microsoft's efforts have been weak. Fable? Nice. Gears? Really awesome games. Halo? Hey they are fun and great MP. But then... they let Mass Effect go. Freaking ME... a potential huge franchise for them. They let Ensemble Studios get away as well. For fucks sake... Rare... one of the best developers of old times is now a shell of its former self. A company that can great a wide range of games from PD to Banjo... relegated to Kinect and avatars. I guess that just irks me so badly. I literally just turned my head around to look at my game collection... and at least in personal preference I find Sony's more varied and of a bigger effort. Though my 360 library is much vaster. Usually 3rd parties are better there and MP games as well.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Sony fanboys really did come out in this one.

The Playstation brand is affected. Playstation is no longer the "to-go" place for core gaming, that spot has been taking by 360. Sales comparison and software sales comparison tell this story. Generally games underperform on PS3. GENERALLY being the keyword. Every once in a while comes a freak. Yes, Sony is doing good in Europe and Japan, but the current big market is USA and there Microsoft has Sony in a stale mate.

Reasoning: Xbox 360 sales have been consistently high since the Slim version, to the point its the #1 console. Since Christmas the PS3 slim effect has worn out and that's being refflected in sales. The unit sold deficit equalizes what the 360 losses in Japan sales, with Europe being mostly Sony land (though from what I know a close race). Worldwide Sales... yes they are even. But the point of this article is to state what we all know... Playstation is no longer the console emperor, and its falling compared to what it was before even if sales have somewhat picked up. The truth is that the USA is the main market, and that's where the 360 rules, and so it will generally receive better support. Come next generation, if Microsoft plays its hand very wisely, it could take Sony by storm.

Oh! And I don't care what your fanboy-tinted glasses say... Sony has made a mess out of the PSN fiasco. No one can call it a good handling and its been negative in their image, especially when Senators publicly ask them for details. That's downright embarrassing and the worst PR you can get. Anecdotal Evidence... a close friend was going to buy a PS3. He decided not to because of PSN and went with 360. I would say this is a very uncommon effect, but at the end of the day... its still an effect which could roll and become an avalanche. Their credibility is affected.

And before someone attacks me I couldn't care less about console wars and I own a Wii, a 360, a PS3 and a nice PC for gaming.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27501558&postcount=130

And another one by Amir0x

No, it's more that owning all the systems doesn't exempt one from being a fanboy. I own all the systems - I have a clear preference. I'm a PC fanboy. Some people take their fanboyism to the extreme and refuse to admit what they are, and try to justify it by claiming that by very virtue of having spent money on more than one platform they couldn't possibly be a fanboy. I purchased a Wii, but think it's terrible. I purchased a Gamecube, and thought it was amazing. My opinions are guided by games, not companies.

Someone is a fanboy when they like something or some company so much that their positions are directly informed by how a company is changing/being. In other words, they were deliberately change their position when their company of choice does, or be intellectually dishonest about things they like/don't like when it comes to their system versus the same thing happening on others.

That's like the people who say they're not racist because they "have a black friend."

.

 

[Relix]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27501558&postcount=130

And another one by Amir0x



.

So whatever Amir0x says is the definite truth, closer to Jesus and the bible.. and Buddha? Hell no.

If I was to be called a fanboy or qualified as one you'd have seen I specifically said I was a Nintendo fanboy. Also said the Wii was horrible. I love my Nintendo franchises and their quirky games. Doesn't mean I enjoy it more than the other consoles. My Wii is in fact... and as cliched as it sounds... gathering dust after DKR.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

they let Mass Effect go. Freaking ME... a potential huge franchise for them.

They didn't let it go, they had no say in that.

They let Ensemble Studios get away as well. For fucks sake...

Another studio they didn't let go, they dissolved it. Without having the insider knowledge, we'll never know whether it was the right thing to do, and maybe it'll come back to bite them in the ass, but having Ensemble on the constant payroll obviously didn't fit into their current plans. They're still working with some of those people, they just don't own them anymore. Like I sad, Microsoft and Sony have vastly different strategies when it comes to first party published games and both have their good points and their bad points.

Rare... one of the best developers of old times is now a shell of its former self. A company that can great a wide range of games from PD to Banjo... relegated to Kinect and avatars.

My opinion on Rare (and Kinect) is well known so I wouldn't go into much detail here. Let's just say that no matter what their old fans might think of them now, Mattrick has obviously managed to turn them into a hit-making company again, after too many years of being also-rans. Will it last or crumble after Kinect Sports? We'll see, but regardless, Avatars are one of the main driving forces behind Microsoft's current success with the more casual crowd. That's not going away.

and at least in personal preference I find Sony's more varied and of a bigger effort.

That's just the thing - it's your preference. Mine is different. Someone else's is different still. And that's fantastic, that we have different companies catering to all those different tastes.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I would not say that Playstation brand has weakened. I would say that Xbox and Nintendo brands became stronger.

 

[szaromir]

I would not say that Playstation brand has weakened. I would say that Xbox and Nintendo brands became stronger.

It definitely has. PS2 sold much more consoles in the same timeframe. The thing is, not only Sony's marketshare has dwindled at the moment, they are not making as much money off the consoles and assossiated products as Nintendo or Microsoft (per console or total), which is probably the biggest concern for them.

 

[Wazzim]

I think one thing we learned , nothing is guaranteed. Especially when you are on top.

PS2 standard is just to high. It was once in a lifetime success in video games that I dont think will ever be broken or matched.

But just looking from past and how PS3 did not live up to PS2. Same can be said about 3DS to DS.

What I wanna see is if wii2 will follow that trend.

Sorry but what a load of crap, there will certainly come a 2nd "PS2" again. It's just that nobody really knows when.
Besides that, the 3DS just released, we still don't know if it will live up to the DS or not.

 

[Yagharek]

The Playstation brand has definitely weakened as a result of this PSN debacle. However the article on the OP is accurate in the sense they are at a turning point. The way they respond to consumer skepticism right now and in the coming weeks will determine to a reasonable extent whether they are perceived as a trusted brand or not.

At the moment theyre doing way too much arse-covering and not enough apologising. Every communication they have made with respect to it has been mitigated with comments about how good their network security is, in complete disregard for the facts of this case.

 

[perfectchaos007]

But they didn't lose in March... at least to the Wii.

March 2011 NPD:

Hardware
Nintendo DS (Yes, DS) - 460k
Xbox 360 - 433,000 (Top Selling Console)
Nintendo 3DS - Slightly Under 400,000
Wii - 290k

Sony didn't release their numbers in March. how do you know?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It definitely has. PS2 sold much more consoles in the same timeframe. The thing is, not only Sony's marketshare has dwindled at the moment, they are not making as much money off the consoles and assossiated products as Nintendo or Microsoft (per console or total), which is probably the biggest concern for them.

PS2 sales have had their backs for a long time, but now that that's slowly going away, they're finding themselves in a bit of a financial trouble. Thankfully, PS3 is finally profitable on its own, and Blu-ray is bringing in some money, but their maneuvering space is rather tight when it comes to possible price cuts. This whole fiasco could cost them a lot of money, earthquakes gave done some damage as well, and they have another platform to launch this year, which can't be cheap.

Love your new avatar, by the way.

Sony didn't release their numbers in March. how do you know?

Because they've beaten their last year's figure, and that's bigger than the Wii number.

 

[polyh3dron]

Honestly, the RRoD situation and the way MS handled it was WAY worse than this PSN situation. MS wasn't just in denial for a week before coming clean. They were in denial about it for the better part of a fucking YEAR telling all the affected consumers that they were part of an acceptable 1-5% of the userbase that would have to pay to get their consoles replaced and/or repaired.

 

[BurritoBushido]

Everyone will have forgotten in 6 months, and then kotaku will do a 2011's gaming contraversies article and people will be like "oh yeah"

 

[Chuck Norris]

Seriously, the reactions to this "PSN debacle" are greatly exaggerated. It's like stumbling on a rock and saying you fell off a cliff. In reality, most people don't care that people couldn't access online gaming it is irrelevant to how they perceive a company. The leak of data is the bigger issue, but even then I'd say for most consumers it just goes in one ear and out the other. Most of my casual gamer friends are largely undisturbed by hackers leaking information, and they most certainly don't seem to be throwing the blame at Sony. They seem a lot more concerned with just being able to play games online again, and when that gets back up I think it'll quickly fade into memory for 99% of people.

 

[polyh3dron]

In all fairness, MS did a fantastic job communicating issues and acknowledging issues from the get go. Then they allocated over $1 Billion dollars to extend the warranty of all units from 1 year to 3 years.

Yeah, but do you remember how long it took them to do this? They dragged their feet for WAY too long. They didn't do a "fantastic job communicating issues and acknowledging issues from the get go". They did pretty much the opposite.

 

[szaromir]

Yeah, but do you remember how long it took them to do this? They dragged their feet for WAY too long. They didn't do a "fantastic job communicating issues and acknowledging issues from the get go". They did pretty much the opposite.

True, it took them almost two years to publicly acknowledge it and then another year to fix it in almost definite way (ie. until 65nm Jaspers hit the market). Then the E74 error became common, but they handled it much better that time around.

 

[Yagharek]

Seriously, the reactions to this "PSN debacle" are greatly exaggerated.

The leak of data is the bigger issue

Ummm, they are the same issue. It's still unacceptable and it's down to either incompetence or negligence in terms of securing their online infrastructure.

 

[Cipherr]

This is horseshit IMO. In gaming, your only ever as good as your last hit basically. So they havent dominated a gen this time like last time. Xbox brand gained tremendously on them this gen, and PSN is down currently, so people are overreacting. Gamers will be right back on the train if they pull another PS2 next gen though.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27501558&postcount=130

And another one by Amir0x




.

Using Amir0x wouldn't be a good counterpoint.

Also Relix is a very intelligent and consistent poster. He's anything but a fanboy.

 

[French]

Worst article ever.

 

[stupei]

Honestly, the RRoD situation and the way MS handled it was WAY worse than this PSN situation. MS wasn't just in denial for a week before coming clean. They were in denial about it for the better part of a fucking YEAR telling all the affected consumers that they were part of an acceptable 1-5% of the userbase that would have to pay to get their consoles replaced and/or repaired.

The scale was very different, though, and that's why this could have a larger potential long term effect. The shitty response to RROD happened when only the most hardcore users (early adopters) were actually impacted. This is happening near the height of the console cycle, when the majority of the potential PS3 user base are impacted. There were incredibly disappointing reactions from both companies, but this has a much greater chance of making a long lasting impression because it's happening to a larger number of people.

 

[Snuggles]

Worst article ever.

 

[mujun]

Honestly, the RRoD situation and the way MS handled it was WAY worse than this PSN situation. MS wasn't just in denial for a week before coming clean. They were in denial about it for the better part of a fucking YEAR telling all the affected consumers that they were part of an acceptable 1-5% of the userbase that would have to pay to get their consoles replaced and/or repaired.

Do you honestly expect people to look back on ancient history and then feel better about Sony and cut them some slack?

Fact is they screwed up with something people don't expect major companies to screw up with. They deservedly are under the microscope because of it now and if they don't handle it well from this point on they are going to cop even more shit.

MS copped mountains of crap for RROD and continue to, deservedly so. The proof is in the pudding though, they continue to sell very well and that is proof that people have forgiven them or forgotten how badly they screwed up.

 

[El-Suave]

...but this has a much greater chance of making a long lasting impression because it's happening to a larger number of people.

The question is will people perceive this as if something happened to them at all (other than PSN being down)? For now the damage is only virtual for most people, the data is out there and it will probably be abused but we don't know how, how many people will be affected and if all of them even care and attribute this to Sony.

Edit: I was one of those affected by the Gawker leak and canceled my account there, but from what I've seen see when I visited Kotaku every now and then after that, the number of comments didn't seem to have taken a substantial hit. Their site redesign probably did more damage than their data screw up.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

The question is will people perceive this as if something happened to them at all (other than PSN being down)? For now the damage is only virtual for most people, the data is out there and it will probably be abused but we don't know how, how many people will be affected and if all of them even care and attribute this to Sony.

There's a new opinion piece trying to answer that question: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-04-27-into-the-breach-gi-editorial

 

[[Nintex]]

My opinion on Rare (and Kinect) is well known so I wouldn't go into much detail here. Let's just say that no matter what their old fans might think of them now, Mattrick has obviously managed to turn them into a hit-making company again, after too many years of being also-rans. Will it last or crumble after Kinect Sports? We'll see, but regardless, Avatars are one of the main driving forces behind Microsoft's current success with the more casual crowd. That's not going away.

It's not what their old fans 'think' it's what is actually happening at the studio right now. Microsoft should just change the name or end it already. This: "lol lol spring might 'bear down on us' *wink* *nudge*" teasing that has fueled the PR line for the last 8 years without anything to show for it is just pathetic at this point. Rare has become a parody of itself. Especially with guys like Kirkhope saying that they'd whore themselves if Rare could go back to the way it used to be. Or their super secret games they've worked on during the last 5 years being leaked left and right by current and former employees.

Rare and Microsoft should come clean and say: "Yeah, we're not going to do Banjo, Perfect Dark or Kameo ever again because we cancelled all those and we fired the staff that had experience to work on such games. From now on we'll pump out Kinect titles and change our name to Microsoft Game Studios UK." The frustration comes from the fact that Rare says: "Yeah we'll love to do Killer Instinct and Perfect Dark!" so fans and gamers get excited only to find out that they and Microsoft never had any intention or plans to release such games.

You don't see Nintendo hype up games that don't exist like a new F-Zero for Wii or a Geist 2 just to frustrate their fans. Rare does it on a daily basis, so I'm not surprised that a lot of fans are simplly frustrated by their recent actions. It really comes down to two simple facts. Are we entitled to new Perfect Dark's and Killer Instinct's? The answer is no. Are they entitled to flat out lie about the state of their company, development and titles in the pipeline? I don't think that's a decent thing to do.

 

[szaromir]

I'm afraid only you and Shiggy care at this point.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Talk about overreacting.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Rare and Microsoft should come clean and say: "Yeah, we're not going to do Banjo, Perfect Dark or Kameo ever again because we cancelled all those and we fired the staff that had experience to work on such games. From now on we'll pump out Kinect titles and change our name to Microsoft Game Studios UK." The frustration comes from the fact that Rare says: "Yeah we'll love to do Killer Instinct and Perfect Dark!" so fans and gamers get excited only to find out that they and Microsoft never had any intention or plans to release such games.

I already stated my stance on that several times and I'm not going to get pulled into that argument again, certainly not in this thread. We've gotten Nuts & Bolts which many people loved and many others hated because it wasn't exactly what they wanted. Likewise, I'm sure in time we'll get new entries in some of Rare's classic franchises, although they too probably won't be what some people would prefer (in fact, we'd probably have them already had pretty much all the leaked concepts for Rare sequels not looked like shit - Urchin looked quite nice, though, I'm really bummed about that one). I don't care, I'm perfectly pleased with what's on offer at the moment.

You don't see Nintendo hype up games that don't exist like a new F-Zero for Wii or a Geist 2 just to frustrate their fans.

Or Pikmin 3. Or Metroid Dread. Or how about Kid Icarus that they've been hinting at for ages, only for it to finally emerge as a 3DS game? Or the realistic GameCube Zelda that finally morphed into Wind Waker (which I think was a good choice, but it's still the same bait and switch tactic).

Rare does it on a daily basis, so I'm not surprised that a lot of fans are simplly frustrated by their recent actions.

Like I've already said, I can somewhat relate to those people and I'm sorry for them to some extent. But personally, my hopes and wishes might not coincide with theirs so at the end of the day, I really couldn't care less about what they want.