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OPM's Lair and Factor 5 article...

Some minor talk about Lair and a lot of talk about history of Factor 5.

THE ART OF LAIR

We had a chance to see the realtime demo of Lair running up close, and it's easily one of the most impressive displays of visual technology we've seen yet from a next-generation game. Most impressive are the individual beads of water you can see drop and cascade along the scales of the two dragons doing battle in midflight. In fact, even Ken Kutaragi, president and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, was shocked to see this particular special effect. You can also pick out muscles, bone, and transparencies in the wings. Actually, the entirety of the dragon models looks spectacular, as it should seeing as how Phil Tippett, the man responsible for designing the dragon featured in the movie Dragonheart, lent his talents to Lair. The models he created for the game were scanned in, allowing the game's artists, sitting in the room pictured here to add multiple layers of detailed textures to the dragons.

"There is picture that shows developers working and play testing Lair. They seem to be using the current Dual Shock controller, at least for development on the dev kits they have."

FACTORED IN

HOW FACTOR 5 WENT FROM BUILDING ITS OWN DEVELOPMENT KITS TO BECOMING A PREMIER PLAYSTATION 3 DEVELOPER

Moving on Up

The office building at Lucas Valley Road - which houses developer Factor 5 - looks fairly inconspicuous from the outside. The cement exterior conveys the sense that there are a bunch of accountants or desk jockeys inside, whittling away at stacks upon stacks of forms and other paperwork. Little would you know that it's quite the opposite on the inside, where a team of nearly 100 people - including programmers, artists, designers, and other talented individuals - is working on one of the most high-profile games for the PlayStation 3 launch: Lair. The crazy thing is, Lair isn't getting all this attention simply because of its subject matter or because of some license that would automatically guarantee it massive amounts of hype. No, Lair is high profile because Factor 5 is high profile.

This is the same developer that ostensibly got the most out of the GameCube hardware - or at least more than most other developers - with its very first game - a launch game, in fact, by the name of Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader. It's the same game that propelled Factor 5 into the spotlight and made the company synonymous with technical wizardry. How many other developers do you know who produce work that gets compared side by side with that of Industrial Light & Magic?

But it wasn't always this way. As with most developers, Factor 5's foundation was laid in garage development, when the company started out as Factor 3. "We started in high school in the late '80s. We wanted to do something cool on computers because we couldn't really do anything on consoles at the time," says Julian Eggebrecht, president and creative director of Factor 5. "This was all in Germany, and we started work on the Commodore Amiga. There weren't any games specifically written for the hardware - they were all shoddy ports. We met on the weekends and all huddled together in a living room and [got to work on these games]."

One of the team's first projects was a clone of the popular shooter R-Type, but it would quickly move on to more ambitious projects, such as Turrican, that were influenced by a number of other popular games at the time." It was partly influenced by Metroid, but the main influence for Turrican comes from Super Mario Bros.," Eggebrecht recalls. "In Germany, the Nintendo sold about 0.5 units [laughs], and I'm sure Nintendo wouldn't contest that because the [NES] simply wasn't aimed toward the German market. So, the concept behind Turrican was, why don't we take the jumping in Super Mario Bros. - which was so much fun - and merge it with an arcade game from Data East, along with Contra and Metroid?"

Turrican went on to be incredibly successful in Europe - so successful that Factor 5's publisher, Rainbow Arts, asked if the team could also do a version of the game for home consoles. "That was always our dream," says Eggebrecht "That's when we started to get [international] recognition, and around that time Sega was one of the first companies to realize that the European market was huge, but Nintendo didn't wake up [to that fact] until later. So our publisher asked us to do a Genesis version and a Super Nintendo version of the game."

Instead of taking the easy route of just asking Sega and Nintendo for development kits of their respective systems, Factor 5 did what any other technologically savvy developer would've done - it just built its own. "It didn't exactly cross our minds to contact them," says Eggebrecht. "But we had a buddy in the German secret service and we basically told him [to] hack it, and we came up with our own development kits. We wrote all the tools, the compilers, and handlers."

It's that kind of motivation and effort to really get to know hardware that's been Factor 5's hallmark, but the company really wouldn't begin to hit its stride until its relationshiops with LucasArts and Nintendo were well established. While LucasArts and Factor 5 were growing their relationship, it became immediately clear that for it to grow any further, Factor 5 had to move to the United States. The problems with staying in Germany while developing a game such as Rebel Assault for the consoles were not only caused by the time difference between Germany and the California-based LucasArts, but also by the massive amount of data being used for the game - a full 650 megabytes to be exact, which may not seem like all that much these days, but it fills nearly an entire CD, and back then the Internet just wasn't fast enough to transfer files that big back then. FedEx bills started to pile up because it was the only practical method to send builds of the game back and forth. It got to be too much, so LucasArts told Factor 5 to pack up and move on out to sunny California to continue its work on the the Star Wars franchise and build its reputation as a developer even more.

"LucasArts was nice enough to say, 'Why don't you transfer your whole company over [from Germany]?'" Eggebrecht recalls. "At the time, we only had 10 people - it's one thing to come over separately, and another to bring the entire company over." Fortunately, Factor 5 managed to get all of its equipment over in just two containers, but the days of less thean 20 employees and very little equipment would soon be over.

The Star Wars Years

The idea for the first in a series of Star Wars games from Factor 5 didn't come from some sort of divine vision or anything glamorous like that. Rather, it was mostly based around the idea of a fractal landscape generator (essentially an easier method for generating landscapes), which is pretty much the reason you would expect from a technologically oriented team. "We did a lot of research into that," says Eggebrecht. "They said, 'OK, you want to work on Star Wars, but be careful with it,' and they knew we wanted to do a game based on all of the [trilogy's] greatest moments."

LucasArts' response to that second bit of information wasn't as positive. The publisher told Factor 5 that no one wanted to play a game based on all of the greatest moments in the original Star Wars trilogy, arguing that those movies were too old for anyone to really care about. "So we kept Rogue Squadron as close to the movies as we could," says Eggebrecht. "But we used our original story and had a lot of back and forth between here and LucasArts, so the game came together really in the last minute."

Still, it's worth pointing out that Factor 5 wasn't all about pushing the limits of the hardware it was working on. The first Rogue Squadron game also demonstrated the team's ability to address the inherent problem with flight simulators - namely, how inaccessible they can be. Roge Squadron's simplified controls and flexible camera system opened up 3D flight games to an even broader audience thean Nintendo's own Star Fox games did, becoming not only a multimillion seller in the process, but one of the best-selling Nintendo 64 games of all time.

The sequel to Rogue Squadron would follow a similar path but on a different console. By the time the GameCube was announced, Factor 5 had solidified its ability to work with hardware more efficiently than most developers could. While still finishing the Star Wars Episode I: Battle for Naboo game for the Nintendo 64 and the PC, Factor 5 was already starting to work on the sequel to Rogue Squadron. "We were dying to work on the [original trilogy] again," says Eggebrecht. "But work on [Rogue Squadron II] was totally clandestine. Nobody knew about it except for LucasArts President Simon Jeffries, and we got out demo together of the flyby [scene]."

It's this flyby of the Rebel assault on the Death Star that launched Factor 5 into the spotlight. People were so completely shocked by the quality that they compared it to work done by Industrial Light & Magic for the Special Edition versions of the original Star Wars films. It was that good. "We did the same thing," says Eggebrecht, referencing a picture-by-picture comparison. Even the special-effects team working on the films was impressed. In fact, in the DVD version of the original trilogy, many assets from Rogue Squadron II, including the Yavin hangar and several of the ship models, were used in the menu screens.

The Rise of Lair

Making the jump from the GameCube to the PlayStation 3 is about as drastic as it gets. While the GameCube is a powerful machine in its own right (as shown by Factor 5's work on Rogue Squadron II and Rogue Squadron III), its power was tapped fairly early in the console's life cycle. The PlayStation 3 is a different beast in that it will take some time to first get to know the system and then to max out its power - a challenge perfectly suited for Factor 5. But the developer had some opportunities to prepare along the way. "We were using the Xbox for a while as a transition to the new consoles, because the Xbox had some featuers that the GameCube didn't have because of the Nvidia card," says Eggebrecht. "We knew what the next generation was going to be about, and as a member of the development community, we were expecting the worst, but the dream came true. [The capabilities are] exactly what we were prophesying."

From there, Factor 5 went back to what it has been about since the beginning. Instead of waiting, the team goes ahead and starts learning about new hardware on its own before it is even really revealed. This more than likely has come in handy during the development of Factor 5's PlayStation 3 launch game, Lair. But there's more to making a launch game than just being first. It's an opportunity to make a statement as a developer - a statement Factor 5 is more than prepared to make. "The gameplay has to be very intuitive and accessible. Yes, we have a certain emphasis on graphics, but graphics alone won't do it." says Eggebrecht. "Also, you have to find a balance between physics and gameplay, so you need to choose your battles wisely. That's the thing bout launch titles - if you don't pick you battles right, [then you will encounter problems]."

Can Factor 5 upstage itself and bring a whole new level of visual quality to consoles? The answer is simple. The shift from the hard lines and metallic surfaces of Star Wars to the organic look and feel of the dragons from the Lair demo presents the team with all-new opportunities to reveal levels of detail that were previously unattainable on consoles. "It comes down to subject matter. There's a reason why [Lair] is what it is,"Eggebrecht adds. "that's where the jump in graphics is going to happen."

Ultimately, the decision to become a PS3 developer boiled down to finding the best fit. "It came down to talking to Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, but Sony just [made the most convincing argument]," Eggebrecht says. "I'd love in the future to work on another Star Wars title, [but] working on an original IP is so much more exciting. It was tough finding a publisher, but Sony was totally cool about it."

Silverthorn @ PS3 forums
 
Ok, after reading that, I change my "Best Looking PS3 Title" award from MGS5 to anything by those Factor 5 guys.

I didn't know they made those SW games for the Cube.
 
So the game is about dragons?

Actually, the entirety of the dragon models looks spectacular, as it should seeing as how Phil Tippett, the man responsible for designing the dragon featured in the movie Dragonheart, lent his talents to Lair.

O Rly. The dragon art is cool.
 
Possibly a game about hunting dragons? Or maybe a Drakengard type of game? Either way, its being made by fricken Factor5!
 
Well I guess that's total confirmation that it's a launch title.

And nice to see again that there's more coverage of PS3 titles emerging. Is there any new media revealed?
 
Borys said:
Ok, after reading that, I change my "Best Looking PS3 Title" award from MGS5 to anything by those Factor 5 guys.

I didn't know they made those SW games for the Cube.

Yeah these guys made the best looking arcade shooting game last gen. The Rouge Squadron game was a GC launch title and even today nothing comes close to it IMO.
 
another interesting quote hehe

If you have the mag, look at the desk behind the guy with the controller. It looks like a PS3 standing up hooked up to the monitor. Shocked I was going to scan it (but that would take forever) but I figured it wasn't allowed. So for those of you with the mag check it out.

Yeah, it does kind of look like the PS3. Hard to tell though. I doubt it is, since we all know that the final dev kit only recently was completed which doesn't look anything like the PS3 mockup we've seen at trade shows. Hmmm...makes one think though.....very interesting...

Yeah that is what I was wondering. I thought at first it was a PS2, but it was to "chubby" to be one. My eyes kept telling me it was a PS3, but I know the dev kits of the PS2 look like the PS2 in shape and style as does the 360. They usualy just don't have the color. Flat black or something like that. So it COULD be a PS3. But I guess will never know
 
DCharlie had an awesome concept in mind for a game involving dragons, and so I hope it's exactly like he described. All burning villages and shit...
 
I want to know what the fuck is Lair about. The dragons look pretty, but I can't excited about a game when I know absolutely dicksquat about the gameplay.
 
"The gameplay has to be very intuitive and accessible. Yes, we have a certain emphasis on graphics, but graphics alone won't do it." says Eggebrecht. "Also, you have to find a balance between physics and gameplay, so you need to choose your battles wisely. That's the thing bout launch titles - if you don't pick you battles right, [then you will encounter problems]."

Atleast they realise that's been a big problem for them, great looking games with mediocre gameplay.
 
Amir0x said:
DCharlie had an awesome concept in mind for a game involving dragons, and so I hope it's exactly like he described. All burning villages and shit...

Sounds like next gen Thanatos.

Thanatos.jpg
 
SolidSnakex said:
Atleast they realise that's been a big problem for them, great looking games with mediocre gameplay.

They've made plenty of good games. Also the Rogue games destroyed Starfox. Something which nfans hate to admit.

jett said:
I want to know what the fuck is Lair about. The dragons look pretty, but I can't excited about a game when I know absolutely dicksquat about the gameplay.

Excactly. WTF is this game about?
 
well the thing is when opm said unreal tournament 07 will be a launch title, mark rein of epic asked one question "does anyone really know when ps3 will be out?" it's clear that games like lair and warhawk has been development for some time and most probably close to completion but how can you "confirm" a game as launch title when nobody can agree what date ps3 will be out?
 
They need to add humans in this game. I want to be able to go on massive rampages, burning villages and eating humans! That would be soo awesome
 
<nu>faust said:
well the thing is when opm said unreal tournament 07 will be a launch title, mark rein of epic asked one question "does anyone really know when ps3 will be out?" it's clear that games like lair and warhawk has been development for some time and most probably close to completion but how can you "confirm" a game as launch title when nobody can agree what date ps3 will be out?

I'm sure Sony has a rough idea, and Sony is publishing this game. And unlike with the UT2007 PSM article, this is from the horse's mouth.

Anyway, we're really due a blowout on this game soon, since it's a launch title. No new media in this article, nor new game details it seems. I guess some mag maybe has an exclusive on it pending.
 
<nu>faust said:
well the thing is when opm said unreal tournament 07 will be a launch title, mark rein of epic asked one question "does anyone really know when ps3 will be out?" it's clear that games like lair and warhawk has been development for some time and most probably close to completion but how can you "confirm" a game as launch title when nobody can agree what date ps3 will be out?

Wasn't that PSM that said it "could" be a launch title? As for this, the developer basically says it's a launch title and you have this

Jack Tretton: We wouldn't be making claims of what our platforms could do if we didn't feel we could deliver on them. We've actually got three internal [PS3] titles that we're working on at Sony Computer Entertainment America. On of them, WarHawk, is playable, and you can compare the graphics and see them live, and also with another one of our launch titles, a game from factor 5 called Lair, again live footage, that footage compares very favorablely to what was shown at E3 press conference. I think that, in the very near future, you'll see some comparable gameplay footage that will really put those rumors[PS3 can't be as powerful as we're claiming it is] to bed.
 
Deg said:
They've made plenty of good games. Also the Rogue games destroyed Starfox. Something which nfans hate to admit.

Starfox 64 is much more fun than any of the Rogue games. Personally, I just can't stand how the ships "feel". They move as if they were made out of paper, like they had no weight whatsoever. The gameplay itself is just extremely simple and archaic. Meh.

Hopefully Lair will have good gameplay(but I just don't see it happening), like Super Turrican II. :)
 
madara said:
Hrmm, isn's this one with shiny "quake 4" ugly visuals?

It's shiny, because they are dragons in rain, and it's wet :p

It certainly looks an awful lot better than Quake 4, however. It looks fantastic, in fact. In terms of game models, very little touches those dragons. It's nigh-on CG quality, looking at the vid.

A reminder:

lair23gc.jpg


We've seen very little of this game, but what we have seen is suggestive of an exceptionally high quality, amongst the top titles we've seen on PS3 sofar IMO. We'll see if that bears out across the whole of the game when it's shown.

And to think this is a launch title..
 
jett said:
Starfox 64 is much more fun than any of the Rogue games. Personally, I just can't stand how the ships "feel". They move as if they were made out of paper, like they had no weight whatsoever. The gameplay itself is just extremely simple and archaic. Meh.

Hopefully Lair will have good gameplay(but I just don't see it happening), like Super Turrican II. :)

SF64 was decent at best, its like a straight conversion of an arcade game without extras. Ofcourse Nintendo fans went mad for anything on the N64 since it had no games whatsoever in the first few years. My how low standards were back then. Rogue had issues too however so its not like it was perfect.

Shame no one buys sims nowadays unless they are gameplay less(MS FS).
 
Amir0x said:
DCharlie had an awesome concept in mind for a game involving dragons, and so I hope it's exactly like he described. All burning villages and shit...

You took the words right out of my fingers! DCharlie's concept actually stirred up interest in me for the game, of which i'd had none prior.

I had thought the dragons resembled Draco from Dragonheart a little bit, but had chalked that up to a dragon thing in general. lol

Mmm...Lair... :D We wants it, We needs it, the precious...
 
Joseph Merrick said:
needs more Turrican 3. fuck this dragon shit, it's for panzer dragoon to do right. leave it alone, german fools.

:lol

Leave Germans alone - they made Far Cry!
 
Izzy said:
Sounds like next gen Thanatos.

Thanatos.jpg

This is what he wrote:

DCharlie said:
it'll probably involve burninating the peasents, burninating all the peoples, burningating all the villages and the THATCH ROOF COTTAGEESSSSSSS

could be good - control a rampaging dragon , fight vast armies , breed baby dragons (a la the Dragon Breed game on ST/Amiga), allign yourself as a good/bad/lawful/chaotic dragon in a kingdom where events unfold and you choose how to play each scenario.

"Why the elves, my friends, i shall protect them from the Orks" (defend the castle!)
"Why the orcs, my friends, i shall help you defeat the elves" (destroy the castle!)
"I need food to feed my younglings - ooh, a big battle! Awesome" (kill the Orks _and_ the Elves)
"i just fancy being sneaky" (above cloud cover, randomly drop fireballs on whoever is below)
"i'm on the elves side, but man - i'm going to fly by their castle, listen to them cheer me on, then turn round and destroy their castle!!! roofles!" (double cross)


also - whatever race you allign yourself with could provide you with riders with specific skills or abilities. The better that race survives, the more tech / resources they get, and the better dragon add-ons you get. etc etc...

And I said, hot damn... now if Lair isn't exactly like this, I'll be disappointed.
 
It blows my mind that there is such a dearth of gamers on this forum of all places that can't think of a decent concept for a game in which you portray a dragon.

Be a dragon, grow your lair. Fend off the intrusions of humanoid races as your lair grows and gains fame across the land for its "vast riches" and put the self-proclaimed dragonslayers in their place. Vie for territory with other dragons. Engage in frickin' diving, swooping, claw-clashing, tail-slashing, fire-breathing, gripped in mortal death embrace ripping at the others wings, plummeting towards the earth far below mid-air battles. *wipes spittle from corner of mouth* Munch on a cow everyone once in awhile. Buzz idyllic villages from time to time and demand their firstborn virgin females in order to spare them as a whole. Maybe, maybe let some large-breasted, amazonian chic in skimpy battle armor ride you every once in awhile for a little company.
 
kaching said:
It blows my mind that there is such a dearth of gamers on this forum of all places that can't think of a decent concept for a game in which you portray a dragon.

Be a dragon, grow your lair. Fend off the intrusions of humanoid races as your lair grows and gains fame across the land for its "vast riches" and put the self-proclaimed dragonslayers in their place. Vie for territory with other dragons. Engage in frickin' diving, swooping, claw-clashing, tail-slashing, fire-breathing, gripped in mortal death embrace ripping at the others wings, plummeting towards the earth far below mid-air battles. *wipes spittle from corner of mouth* Munch on a cow everyone once in awhile. Buzz idyllic villages from time to time and demand their firstborn virgin females in order to spare them as a whole. Maybe, maybe let some large-breasted, amazonian chic in skimpy battle armor ride you every once in awhile for a little company.

True. There's a lot that could be done. Unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to tell what Factor5 were envisioning for Lair from the PSM demo.
 
Warm Machine said:
I'm looking forward to the PS3's version of Sword of Sodan. Rebel Strike was the best looking worst playing game I've ever bought.

:lol

God ... I had Sword of Sodan for the Genesis ... for a day. Worst - game - ever.

:lol
 
typo said:
I'm just hoping for a decent next-gen version of Drakan.


If your looking, then its not going happen. Surreal is now owned by Midway, Sony owns the IP and the game was twice a commerical failure. Those three factors alone would obviously make for Sony not wanting to touch it again.

If anything, I'm sure Surreal is cooking up a spiritual successor to Drakan.
 
kaching said:
It blows my mind that there is such a dearth of gamers on this forum of all places that can't think of a decent concept for a game in which you portray a dragon.

Be a dragon, grow your lair. Fend off the intrusions of humanoid races as your lair grows and gains fame across the land for its "vast riches" and put the self-proclaimed dragonslayers in their place. Vie for territory with other dragons. Engage in frickin' diving, swooping, claw-clashing, tail-slashing, fire-breathing, gripped in mortal death embrace ripping at the others wings, plummeting towards the earth far below mid-air battles. *wipes spittle from corner of mouth* Munch on a cow everyone once in awhile. Buzz idyllic villages from time to time and demand their firstborn virgin females in order to spare them as a whole. Maybe, maybe let some large-breasted, amazonian chic in skimpy battle armor ride you every once in awhile for a little company.


"maybe"?... :lol
 
gofreak said:
True. There's a lot that could be done. Unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to tell what Factor5 were envisioning for Lair from the PSM demo.
Absolutely, my comment had nothing to do with what Factor 5 is capable of or what they have planned. Just a general comment on why people seem to have such a hard time envisioning cool gameplay scenarios for a dragon-based game.

In fact, I can't even say I'd give good chances to Factor 5 producing a dragon-based game I'd like going off of their more recent work in 3d. Turrican I liked, but that's too long ago and too different to get my hopes up.

Onix said:
God ... I had Sword of Sodan for the Genesis ... for a day. Worst - game - ever.
The Genesis version was a slap in the face to the Amiga original.

xaosslug said:
"maybe"?...
Heh...as spoken from the dragon's perspective, of course.
 
Ok, I admit I'm falling victim to the Sony hype machine. With MoH and Lair coming soon to the PS3, there is no way i can pass this up. Now all I need to do is upgrade to a 1080p HDTV and wait.
 
i hope their 2nd game is a next gen revival of Thornado.
Thornado.jpg

the turrican games were good shit.

Lair looks cool. Even if the gameplay turns out to be average like RS, the graphics look to be phenomenal, smart move of Sony to pick up a Factor 5 game for launch, this is exactly the kind of game that could lure casuals in with his great graphics. A perfect launch type game.
 
OMFG, Julian has finally eaten his broom ? remember what he said about GameCube vs Xbox back in 2000-2001 ? remember that MASSIVE GAF thread ?

look what he is saying now

"We were using the Xbox for a while as a transition to the new consoles, because the Xbox had some featuers that the GameCube didn't have because of the Nvidia card,"
says Eggebrecht



:lol
 
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