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Original Devil May Cry (HD Collection) has aged well, it was ahead of its time...
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
Jawmuncher
Member
Can't say I disagree with OP's list.
His top 3 is the same as my list. DmC will always get the nudge over 4 just because it had a understandable story going for it. I'm not some amazing DMC player so I like to have my experience rounded. Good gameplay is great to have but DMC3 showed you can have both that and story.
Aside from all that DMC1 does hold up pretty well considering when it was released.
Though the Devil Trigger is a bit to OP the times I had to use it.
His top 3 is the same as my list. DmC will always get the nudge over 4 just because it had a understandable story going for it. I'm not some amazing DMC player so I like to have my experience rounded. Good gameplay is great to have but DMC3 showed you can have both that and story.
Aside from all that DMC1 does hold up pretty well considering when it was released.
Though the Devil Trigger is a bit to OP the times I had to use it.
DT is perfectly balanced in DMC1. It's powerful but that's the point... on DMD it's essential. Only thing not balanced is the DT gain through Grenade rolling, that makes things too OP.
So I guess glitches are allowed. It won't make a huge difference and it's some what luck dependent but it can shave off of a few seconds off of the time.
So I guess glitches are allowed. It won't make a huge difference and it's some what luck dependent but it can shave off of a few seconds off of the time.
AKingNamedPaul
I am Homie
I'm almost upset that this thread didn't turn into a ninja gaiden black vs dmc thread.
Where did all the action game beef go? has gaf gone soft? or are you guys getting too old for this shit?
Where did all the action game beef go? has gaf gone soft? or are you guys getting too old for this shit?
Robot Pants
Member
Oh wooooord?
Best of luck, son
It's because the new DmC and NG3 aren't as good as the older ones so it's not the same comparing the two. I mean who cares if DmC is better than NG3. The DMC3SE vs NGB debates were the classics but they are a relic from the PS2 era. That's 2 generations ago... most people have grown up out of it and people like what they like.
And there are too few action games to be arguing about which one is better. It's just petty at this point. Most action game players have played all the big action games anyway.
It's like going into a SF4 thread and expecting some SF vs MK debates. It ain't the 90s anymore.... you are allowed to play both games.
BeautifulMemory
Member
There's nothing much left to fight for. DMC is in limbo, NG is an abortion until proven otherwise, Bayo and MGR are just hanging there sales wise
DevilPower
Member
I can't believe people used to compare NGB to DMC3. They are miles apart in terms of gameplay, mechanics and enemy AI... One relies too much on blocking and other is all out offensive...
Or am I missing something...
Or am I missing something...
Are you kidding? With the current climate of action games? There's no point. Fans of good actions games need to stick together.
You are missing the fact that NGB used to be Xbox exclusive and DMC3 used to be PS2 exclusive. A lot of legitimate debates were clouded by shitty console fanboyism. Thankfully with the PS3/360 era with both games going more or less multiplatform... that shit subsided and so did the NG vs DMC debates.
All the debates are good for are coming up with things that the game series can take from each other. Like DMC series should 100% take some aggressive enemies from NG (not overboard but more aggression would be nice). NG on the other hand can benefit from actual on the fly weapon swap and better enemy designs.
How are the games compared to Bayonetta? Bayonetta is one of my favorite and also one of my most played games from the past generation.
A long time ago, I played the DMC4 demo and more recently the demo of DmC. I didn't like either of them, as I couldn't get used to the controls. They were.. kinda stiff, I think? I can't remember. Some way, they just felt odd to me.
But I keep hearing good things about the game, so I got the full series - HD collection + DMC4 + DmC - in the basket right now. Dunno.
A long time ago, I played the DMC4 demo and more recently the demo of DmC. I didn't like either of them, as I couldn't get used to the controls. They were.. kinda stiff, I think? I can't remember. Some way, they just felt odd to me.
But I keep hearing good things about the game, so I got the full series - HD collection + DMC4 + DmC - in the basket right now. Dunno.
DevilPower
Member
Well the last time they tried to put aggressive enemies in DMC we got chimera scarecrow and chimera faust (which attacked mid combo for no apparent reason whatsoever).
On the fly weapon swap is always an improvement. The enemies in NGB already have a pretty fleshed out moveset or are you referring to them art wise...?
Edit: oh shit I forgot blitz. That was an aggressive enemy done right...
Different breed of games than Bayonetta despite having similarities.
Bayonetta has a completely free Dodge system. You can Dodge out of anything and it's attached to a button while also being extremely effective. Dodging isn't mapped to a single button in a DMC game.. you have to lock on then jump to the right/left to activate a dodge. It's take longer to get used to. In Bayonetta you get a lot of benefit from dodging at the exact time where as in DMC all you get is some additional style bonus or in DMC4 Nero gains significant frame advantage off of a well timed dodge (Table Hopper mechanic, which is what is shown off in that gif that everyone likes to use). Dante has a style dedicated to evasion in the form of Trickster, in that Style he has a Dodge attached to a button (more like a Dash but some application). DmC is the only DMC to have a dedicated dodge system, combined with the Demon/Angel forms the Dodges in that game are really powerful as they give you a power boost on a well timed activation and a regular dodge chains into a multi direction teleport dash (which allows you to dodge and get back into the thick of the action).
You still can't dodge out of everything in a DMC game... actions have to be well calculated and commitments have to be made.
Aside from that Bayonetta has what is commonly referred to as a "dial a combo" system that works very well because of the Wicked Weave system and Dodge Offset. It's a hallmark achievement for the dial a combo system however none of this applies to DMC as it does not have a "dial a combo" system. It's all completely free form and manual in terms of creating combos aside from a few pause based combo strings. Dodge Offset would however be a great addition to NG as it would allow players to be more offensive and use a larger portion of the movelist.
These things aside there are a lot of similarities between the two like more focus on aerial combat, free flowing combat system (despite having dial a combos Bayonetta still has lots of free form combos), lock on mechanic, on the fly weapon swap, promotion of stylish play (ie. variate your moves to get more points) etc.
And yeah I was talking about the art of the enemies in NG.
Bayonetta has a completely free Dodge system. You can Dodge out of anything and it's attached to a button while also being extremely effective. Dodging isn't mapped to a single button in a DMC game.. you have to lock on then jump to the right/left to activate a dodge. It's take longer to get used to. In Bayonetta you get a lot of benefit from dodging at the exact time where as in DMC all you get is some additional style bonus or in DMC4 Nero gains significant frame advantage off of a well timed dodge (Table Hopper mechanic, which is what is shown off in that gif that everyone likes to use). Dante has a style dedicated to evasion in the form of Trickster, in that Style he has a Dodge attached to a button (more like a Dash but some application). DmC is the only DMC to have a dedicated dodge system, combined with the Demon/Angel forms the Dodges in that game are really powerful as they give you a power boost on a well timed activation and a regular dodge chains into a multi direction teleport dash (which allows you to dodge and get back into the thick of the action).
You still can't dodge out of everything in a DMC game... actions have to be well calculated and commitments have to be made.
Aside from that Bayonetta has what is commonly referred to as a "dial a combo" system that works very well because of the Wicked Weave system and Dodge Offset. It's a hallmark achievement for the dial a combo system however none of this applies to DMC as it does not have a "dial a combo" system. It's all completely free form and manual in terms of creating combos aside from a few pause based combo strings. Dodge Offset would however be a great addition to NG as it would allow players to be more offensive and use a larger portion of the movelist.
These things aside there are a lot of similarities between the two like more focus on aerial combat, free flowing combat system (despite having dial a combos Bayonetta still has lots of free form combos), lock on mechanic, on the fly weapon swap, promotion of stylish play (ie. variate your moves to get more points) etc.
Chimeras are just a bad idea in general.. they would be bad in NG too. They combo break you. I am talking about more in line with Shadows, Blades or Dreamrunners in DmC.
And yeah I was talking about the art of the enemies in NG.
DevilPower
Member
Another thing to add is that most (all?) of bayonetta's attacks have an large AoE whereas in DMC it is the opposite (I think it is main reason why people do not normally use lockon in bayonetta). Plus the movement of bayonetta is fluffy and floaty while dante's movement and jump animation has a pretty large weight to it, if you don't keep jump cancelling you're going to come to ground like a dead weight. You rarely have to jump cancel in bayonetta...
Pyramid head
Banned
The story in all of these games is literally the least important thing about them. Comparing them with each other is like dividing by zero. You'd really have to not give a single fuck about the quality of the gameplay to base your preference on the story.
That Dude John
Member
Thanks, how about accessories? Are those considered okay or cheap?
Like the one that gives you the ability to parry or the one that leaves bombs when dodging?
Sorry, for now we are all united in mourning the deaths of both series.
DMC1 has an annoying graphical glitch.
DMC3 did a good job of making the story/characters at least a little. The Vergil fights quite satisfying.
DirtyDeedsDoneDirtCheap
Banned
Dante has a definite arc in 1 and 3 and stays sympathetic. So does Lady, who also provides a foil to Dante and Vergil's relationship. Nero is kinda cool when he isn't around Kyrie. Whenever the villains seem sympathetic and even a little worthy of praise, it's no accident. At no point They Live is ever ripped off from.
The bar is pretty low but classic DMC clears it and the reboot doesn't.
The PC version of DMC4 is just so immaculate. I feel like I regard the game higher for that reason.
DMC3=DMC4>DMC1>DmC.
Every entry blew my mind at the time it came out. The original was like nothing I'd seen before, probably because there wasn't anything like it before.
The sequel came out and blew my mind with how bad it was, and how it was nothing like the game that came before it.
When 3 came out, I was pretty down on it - I was still sour on 2, but my goodness, this game influenced my taste so much. More than I probably even realize. I think it even opened up the combo video culture to me. This game was just a masterpiece as far as I was concerned.
4 blew my mind because I felt it actually lived up to it's predecessor. Obviously, it could have been better, but the core mechanics of the combat are really superb. Wow! Much polish! Such mechanism! If only they could have squeezed more out of Dante's content. I probably would have been happy with the same thing DMC3SE did with Vergil - same content, some different cut-scenes. It's a bummer they had to split up the campaign the way they did.
DmC blew my mind because it actually wasn't too bad of a game. It just doesn't live up to the name, unfortunately. Color-coded enemies are not my idea of free-form combat.
DMC3=DMC4>DMC1>DmC.
Every entry blew my mind at the time it came out. The original was like nothing I'd seen before, probably because there wasn't anything like it before.
The sequel came out and blew my mind with how bad it was, and how it was nothing like the game that came before it.
When 3 came out, I was pretty down on it - I was still sour on 2, but my goodness, this game influenced my taste so much. More than I probably even realize. I think it even opened up the combo video culture to me. This game was just a masterpiece as far as I was concerned.
4 blew my mind because I felt it actually lived up to it's predecessor. Obviously, it could have been better, but the core mechanics of the combat are really superb. Wow! Much polish! Such mechanism! If only they could have squeezed more out of Dante's content. I probably would have been happy with the same thing DMC3SE did with Vergil - same content, some different cut-scenes. It's a bummer they had to split up the campaign the way they did.
DmC blew my mind because it actually wasn't too bad of a game. It just doesn't live up to the name, unfortunately. Color-coded enemies are not my idea of free-form combat.
DirtyDeedsDoneDirtCheap
Banned
You forgot the best part of DMC4 PC: Legendary Dark Knight Mode. Taking full advantage of the superior hardware of a PC, Capcom included a mode with ten(!) times the normal amount of enemies. It also runs like a dream on even a toaster. I swear I've seen it go up to 120fps on a good computer.
LDK mode is so much fun. Totally batshit. Hope that's a feature going forward as well (at least on PC versions). Other action games should throw that in the mix.
Also, if there's a new game, I'd love to have all the past Devil Arms available. Or at least give us Beowulf/Infrit skins for whatever gauntlets are in the game, and like an Alastor skin for Rebellion.
Also, if there's a new game, I'd love to have all the past Devil Arms available. Or at least give us Beowulf/Infrit skins for whatever gauntlets are in the game, and like an Alastor skin for Rebellion.
AKingNamedPaul
I am Homie
I haven't played anything in 2014 yet, but I think my first two games of the year will be Dmc3 or Ninja gaiden 2.
I haven't even put time into LDK! I need to re-install and get this goin'.
And, yes, it runs ridiculously well. I'll do a benchmark at max OC for shits'n'giggles when I re-install it.
Edit: Averaged 300fps. 172 bottom, 490 top. Or 900+ if you count the initial load! Mmm, mm, mmmm..
AcceptableGhost
Member
no the best feature of DMC4 PC is the turbo mode
ldk mode is neat but also kind of nonsense
DevilPower
Member
The parry accessory (Moon of mahaa kaala) is the right way to play the game. Always leave it equipped. It parries the attack and leaves the enemy in stun.
Bomb accessory's (evil harvest rosary) use depends upon which difficulty you're playing. You can have it equipped at lower difficulties and train yourself for Infinite Climax mode (otherwise you'll be pretty shocked when you realize you can't use witch time on infinite climax). It is also good on enemies against which you cannot activate witch time.
The best accessory however is the Bangle of time (activate witch time whenever you need). similar to Quicksilver in DMC3 you'll have to be pretty damn good in the game to use it properly.
Apparently the demo is not available on PSN, only Xbox Live? And the digital download is Xbox exclusive as well; the PSN store says "Disc only". Weird.
Yeah, wondering in terms of the Infinite Climax difficulty.
Already finished the game on it once way back but remember someone mentioning in a discussion that using accessories was cheesing the game and that the right way was to play without them? The only one's I used were the parry one and the Evil Harvest Rosary.
The parry one at the very least made sense to use because aside from parrying it also seems like one of the main ways to stop stun lock in certain enemy combos. Just like in Metal Gear Rising though, there can be little need for timing and it is rather spammable.
Candescence
Member
I really need to pick up the collection at some point. I only have DMC4 and Bayonetta - while the former has its issues, the combat mechanics are fantastic and the moveset is brilliantly intuitive (it also helps that the PC port is fantastic). Bayonetta, I guess, is an overall better game, but it does have its problems (the QTEs, for one).
I tried the DmC demo, and... Well, it was about as mediocre as I expected it to be, really. It was functional and very much playable, but it felt like a poor man's Devil May Cry in virtually every respect, and virtually every aesthetic aspect was terrible (yes, limbo is severely overrated, despite the whole world-shifting thing being actually kinda neat). And looking at the full narrative makes me feel justified in not buying it for that, either, it's amazing how a studio whose reputation revolves around "good" video game stories can create something even worse than the previous titles in a series that prides itself on camp and doesn't take itself that seriously (while simultaneously jettisoning everything that made the serious narratively enjoyable in the first place). Ridiculous narrative with an incredible lack of subtlety, awful characterization, utterly bizarre narrative choices (angels literally have no role in that game despite supposedly being a major part of the setting), and some of the most sexist writing I've ever seen in a video game. As I previously said, the gameplay is serviceable and at least tries to be a Devil May Cry game (even if it makes some rather misguided gameplay decisions in doing so) and would be a decent spectacle fighter just with that alone, but everything else just makes it not worth playing when there's far, far better action games out there, including Metal Gear Rising, which was released in roughly the same timeframe, and does everything that DmC does but so, so much better.
With DMC1 being the game that started an entire subgenre and considering DMC3's reputation, I really need to grab the collection at some point, preferably on disk. Shame DMC3's PC port was awful, though Capcom has really stepped up their game with PC ports ever since the PS2 era. I'm also hoping that MGR's PC port isn't too bad, considering the less than positive news we've been getting from that front.
Edit: Though there is one thing I've been thinking about... Why haven't we gotten a 3D fighter using DMC/Bayonetta's base mechanics as a foundation? Fighters really need to break out into the third dimension, it's a bit silly that most every major fighting games out there that aren't Naruto or DBZ are 2D. You'd think SOMEONE would take the plunge.
I tried the DmC demo, and... Well, it was about as mediocre as I expected it to be, really. It was functional and very much playable, but it felt like a poor man's Devil May Cry in virtually every respect, and virtually every aesthetic aspect was terrible (yes, limbo is severely overrated, despite the whole world-shifting thing being actually kinda neat). And looking at the full narrative makes me feel justified in not buying it for that, either, it's amazing how a studio whose reputation revolves around "good" video game stories can create something even worse than the previous titles in a series that prides itself on camp and doesn't take itself that seriously (while simultaneously jettisoning everything that made the serious narratively enjoyable in the first place). Ridiculous narrative with an incredible lack of subtlety, awful characterization, utterly bizarre narrative choices (angels literally have no role in that game despite supposedly being a major part of the setting), and some of the most sexist writing I've ever seen in a video game. As I previously said, the gameplay is serviceable and at least tries to be a Devil May Cry game (even if it makes some rather misguided gameplay decisions in doing so) and would be a decent spectacle fighter just with that alone, but everything else just makes it not worth playing when there's far, far better action games out there, including Metal Gear Rising, which was released in roughly the same timeframe, and does everything that DmC does but so, so much better.
With DMC1 being the game that started an entire subgenre and considering DMC3's reputation, I really need to grab the collection at some point, preferably on disk. Shame DMC3's PC port was awful, though Capcom has really stepped up their game with PC ports ever since the PS2 era. I'm also hoping that MGR's PC port isn't too bad, considering the less than positive news we've been getting from that front.
Edit: Though there is one thing I've been thinking about... Why haven't we gotten a 3D fighter using DMC/Bayonetta's base mechanics as a foundation? Fighters really need to break out into the third dimension, it's a bit silly that most every major fighting games out there that aren't Naruto or DBZ are 2D. You'd think SOMEONE would take the plunge.
DMC1 blew my mind back in the day. I still get pumped at the soundtrack and the atmosphere of the game hasn't been matched. I love DmC3 and 4 for various reasons but the first opened doors.
DMC2 was a horrible letdown and DmC was a mashup of mistakes that what it got fairly right could not make up for what was horribly wrong.
DMC2 was a horrible letdown and DmC was a mashup of mistakes that what it got fairly right could not make up for what was horribly wrong.
It wasn't ahead of its time, games did great level design, awesome soundtrack and interesting enemies before that. As far gameplay goes it was one of the first games that made me say "NEXT GEN, FUCK YEA".
I don't know if it's nostalgia but I still prefer DMC1 over the clear gameplay superiority of DMC3 and DMC4. The attacks feels just right, the DT is my favorite and I swear by the Alastor.
I don't know if it's nostalgia but I still prefer DMC1 over the clear gameplay superiority of DMC3 and DMC4. The attacks feels just right, the DT is my favorite and I swear by the Alastor.
Tht is a whole lotta information to glean from a 15min demo
DevilPower
Member
Well, people have been known to do no upgrade (and no damage) runs of NGB so there's that.
It's really upto you, if you think that you have beaten NSIC without using continues or items (although I couldn't imagine anyone would) and still don't feel the challenge then by all means don't use the accessories.
Though I would still recommend that you use bangle of time.
I want Nevan back
Such a badass weapon. It was so unique and so fun to use (dat crowd control....)
1,000 times yes.
So I binged dmc4 and finished it. It's a lot more fun than I remember it. I'm also quite better at character action games than when i played it the first time around.
One thing I really enjoyed was being able to freely switch btw weapons and styles with Dante. Losing that will be painful in dmc3, as will having to grind/lvl up the styles. It was nice to have enough pts on the getgo to get all styles to lvl 2 here.
So, i enjoyed the game. It's good, but i don't feel i've unlocked its 'greatness' yet. That will have to go with the higher diffs and as i unlock all the moves, i hope.
One thing I really enjoyed was being able to freely switch btw weapons and styles with Dante. Losing that will be painful in dmc3, as will having to grind/lvl up the styles. It was nice to have enough pts on the getgo to get all styles to lvl 2 here.
So, i enjoyed the game. It's good, but i don't feel i've unlocked its 'greatness' yet. That will have to go with the higher diffs and as i unlock all the moves, i hope.
The DmC demo, for better or worse, is a very accurate representation of the full game. I guess the only thing it doesn't fully convey is Dante's character because he comes off as a jack ass when he really isn't like that for the whole game but the rest of the content in the demo is valid. You are provided with a substantial portion of the combat to try out and tinker around with.
You guys should've gone through my essays on the demo from back in the day. Shit was tight.
fredrancour
Member
The current business climate of the games industry makes genre infighting feel kinda silly when anything without astronomical sales potential is living on borrowed time.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Speaking of which. Is DMD any kind of challenge in that game? I got bored halfway through Son of Sparda, but I could see myself continuing if DMD is better.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Yeah, the combat in the demo kinda stopped me from buying it anywhere in the near future from when it came out. The slight pause between moves really threw me off and made it way less enjoyable for me. Has anyone made a mod removing it?
DevilPower
Member
One good thing you'll gain is the need to carefully plan your enemy encounter beforehand, especially on DMD. You can't go to battles willy nilly like in DMC4. It was fun to go into the customize menu and carefully weighing the pros and cons of each weapon and style before you even started the fight and each weapon is so different from the other one that choosing the right one is half of winning the battle. Same goes for the different styles, because you were limited to one style therefore you had to use it to its maximum potential. I remember one time I chose swordmaster+cereberus over royalguard to fight beowulf and nullified nearly all of his attacks by just using ice age (and damaged him as well)... good times...
Wolf Akela
Member
People with a gaming PC should really play DmC with Turbo Mode (a mod).
I can't stand playing 3 onwards without Turbo. They're too slow.
DmC Vergil is amazing especially with Turbo. He beats his DMC3 incarnation in terms of sheer agility. I have never felt the same kind of "high" playing a game since DMC3:SE added Vergil and Turbo. NT was already on the right track, but sadly they'll never have another go. I wish DmC Vergil had alt weapons for Angel/Demon, but Angel/Demon Summoned Swords was still genius.
I can't stand playing 3 onwards without Turbo. They're too slow.
DmC Vergil is amazing especially with Turbo. He beats his DMC3 incarnation in terms of sheer agility. I have never felt the same kind of "high" playing a game since DMC3:SE added Vergil and Turbo. NT was already on the right track, but sadly they'll never have another go. I wish DmC Vergil had alt weapons for Angel/Demon, but Angel/Demon Summoned Swords was still genius.