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OT- Official Revenge of the Sith Discussion Thread
- Thread starter shantyman
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1 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith Fox $50,013,859 3,661 $13,661 Th 5/19/05 $50,013,859
2 Shrek 2 DW $44,797,042 4,163 $10,761 Sa 5/22/04 $94,082,519
3 Spider-Man Sony $43,622,264 3,615 $12,067 Sa 5/04/02 $83,029,136
4 Spider-Man 2 Sony $40,442,604 4,152 $9,741 W 6/30/04 $40,442,604
5 Spider-Man Sony $39,406,872 3,615 $10,901 F 5/03/02 $39,406,872
6 Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban WB $38,268,295 3,855 $9,927 F 6/04/04 $38,268,295
7 The Matrix Reloaded WB $37,508,303 3,603 $10,410 Th 5/15/03 $42,508,303
8 Shrek 2 DW $34,900,541 4,163 $8,384 Su 5/23/04 $128,983,060
9 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King NL $34,450,834 3,703 $9,303 W 12/17/03 $34,450,834
10 The Matrix Reloaded WB $34,389,237 3,603 $9,545 Sa 5/17/03 $108,227,933
Still 82% on RT and at this same time AOTC and TPM were in the high 60's:
Reviews counted: 173
Fresh: 142 Rotten: 31
2 Shrek 2 DW $44,797,042 4,163 $10,761 Sa 5/22/04 $94,082,519
3 Spider-Man Sony $43,622,264 3,615 $12,067 Sa 5/04/02 $83,029,136
4 Spider-Man 2 Sony $40,442,604 4,152 $9,741 W 6/30/04 $40,442,604
5 Spider-Man Sony $39,406,872 3,615 $10,901 F 5/03/02 $39,406,872
6 Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban WB $38,268,295 3,855 $9,927 F 6/04/04 $38,268,295
7 The Matrix Reloaded WB $37,508,303 3,603 $10,410 Th 5/15/03 $42,508,303
8 Shrek 2 DW $34,900,541 4,163 $8,384 Su 5/23/04 $128,983,060
9 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King NL $34,450,834 3,703 $9,303 W 12/17/03 $34,450,834
10 The Matrix Reloaded WB $34,389,237 3,603 $9,545 Sa 5/17/03 $108,227,933
Still 82% on RT and at this same time AOTC and TPM were in the high 60's:
Reviews counted: 173
Fresh: 142 Rotten: 31
dynamitejim
Member
I just got back from seeing a DLP showing. It looked phenomenal, nearly 3D in many scenes. Everything was so clean and clear, unlike an actual film print shown even only a few times. My only complaints were that the black levels weren't as good as film and the movie looked somewhat "soft".
As for the movie itself, it's my least favorite of the PT. I wouldn't say I really like the other two films, but the first time I saw each I was at least "wowed". Sith just felt so boring and lifeless throughout, on top of having the problems the first 2 had. And it certainly didn't feel anymore like the OT than Episode I or II. The only really good moment was the Order 66 scene. Sith didn't really feel as "dark" as claimed - then again I wouldn't call any of the other movies that either. Oh well, it's finally over. If it wasn't for Lucas' tinkering with the OT I'd probably just be able to forget the PT completely.
As for the movie itself, it's my least favorite of the PT. I wouldn't say I really like the other two films, but the first time I saw each I was at least "wowed". Sith just felt so boring and lifeless throughout, on top of having the problems the first 2 had. And it certainly didn't feel anymore like the OT than Episode I or II. The only really good moment was the Order 66 scene. Sith didn't really feel as "dark" as claimed - then again I wouldn't call any of the other movies that either. Oh well, it's finally over. If it wasn't for Lucas' tinkering with the OT I'd probably just be able to forget the PT completely.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
A few more thoughts... (I seem to miss this thread for awhile, than show back up to read through it, than I have a bunch of new things that go through my head! 
)
-Several people have mentioned that Vader had to obey Palpatine because he could zap his suit with lightning at any time and end his life. What if The Emperor had gone far beyond that. Perhaps he's built something into the suit that allows him to take out Vader by touching a switch. Anywhere in the galaxy, poof, resperator quits working. Or, seeing as how Palpatine took out the Jedi, the Stormtroopers were imbedded with Order 666 to kill Lord Vader. A few stormtroopers are no match for him, but a Super Star Destroyer full of the hunting him down... Than again, considering how bad the OT Troopers were, maybe they still couldn't take him.
-Anyone else think that perhaps Obi Wan and Vader faced each other again over the years before Episode IV? What sparked this thought for me was Padme saying there is still good in Anakin, that she could feel it. And the line from Jedi where Vader tells Luke "Obi Wan once thought as you do." I had a thought that perhaps Obi Wan learns, shortly after the end of RotS that Vader is still alive. Thinking that he may still be able to pull him back, he goes to confront him one last time. In A New Hope, Vader tells Obi Wan "When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the Master." which could easily mean that they hadn't seen each other since the Duel, but it could also be that they had one more showdown, and Vader left Obi Wan, telling him that he must obey his master, and that it is indeed, too late for him. I know I'm grasping at straws here, but with Padme telling Obi Wan about sensing the good in Anakin, it just got me thinking that he may try once more to face down his old friend.
)-Several people have mentioned that Vader had to obey Palpatine because he could zap his suit with lightning at any time and end his life. What if The Emperor had gone far beyond that. Perhaps he's built something into the suit that allows him to take out Vader by touching a switch. Anywhere in the galaxy, poof, resperator quits working. Or, seeing as how Palpatine took out the Jedi, the Stormtroopers were imbedded with Order 666 to kill Lord Vader. A few stormtroopers are no match for him, but a Super Star Destroyer full of the hunting him down... Than again, considering how bad the OT Troopers were, maybe they still couldn't take him.
-Anyone else think that perhaps Obi Wan and Vader faced each other again over the years before Episode IV? What sparked this thought for me was Padme saying there is still good in Anakin, that she could feel it. And the line from Jedi where Vader tells Luke "Obi Wan once thought as you do." I had a thought that perhaps Obi Wan learns, shortly after the end of RotS that Vader is still alive. Thinking that he may still be able to pull him back, he goes to confront him one last time. In A New Hope, Vader tells Obi Wan "When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the Master." which could easily mean that they hadn't seen each other since the Duel, but it could also be that they had one more showdown, and Vader left Obi Wan, telling him that he must obey his master, and that it is indeed, too late for him. I know I'm grasping at straws here, but with Padme telling Obi Wan about sensing the good in Anakin, it just got me thinking that he may try once more to face down his old friend.
Things I hated -
"You're so beautiful because we're so in love" or something similar. Ehhh....
"Hold me like you did by the lake on Naboo" Groooaann
"Not if anything about it I have to say" Ugh, overkill on the ass backwards speak here.
"NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" How Lucas ruined that, I don't know. Please don't give me this "It was an homage to Frankenstein" shit. This is Star Wars, not a 1930's monster flick. I would've been fine if JEJ had even just screamed out "ARHHHHH!", but the fact that the 'no' sounded more like a question really killed it for me. Also hearing Darth Vader say "Padme" sounded odd.
Things I loved -
Everything else. Absolutely everything. I thought most of the acting was spot on, I don't see the complaints about Sam Jackson's acting, I loved the return to OT style humor, and the lightsaber battles were fantastic.
Order 66 was mindblowing as was the whole 'Palpatine is a Sith lord' revelation sequence.
Can't wait to see it again
.... I just wish that Lucas would've changed that scream, it just didn't jive with me at all.
"You're so beautiful because we're so in love" or something similar. Ehhh....
"Hold me like you did by the lake on Naboo" Groooaann
"Not if anything about it I have to say" Ugh, overkill on the ass backwards speak here.
"NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" How Lucas ruined that, I don't know. Please don't give me this "It was an homage to Frankenstein" shit. This is Star Wars, not a 1930's monster flick. I would've been fine if JEJ had even just screamed out "ARHHHHH!", but the fact that the 'no' sounded more like a question really killed it for me. Also hearing Darth Vader say "Padme" sounded odd.
Things I loved -
Everything else. Absolutely everything. I thought most of the acting was spot on, I don't see the complaints about Sam Jackson's acting, I loved the return to OT style humor, and the lightsaber battles were fantastic.
Order 66 was mindblowing as was the whole 'Palpatine is a Sith lord' revelation sequence.
Can't wait to see it again
.... I just wish that Lucas would've changed that scream, it just didn't jive with me at all.
borghe, quit calling everyone a hater who points out some small criticism. I loved the movie, but I still call Padme dying at Luke and Leia's birth a huge inconsistancy with ROTJ. You can nitpick Leia's precise words, but the entire emotional thrust and impact of that scene in ROTJ depends on Leia actually having known her real mother for at least a few years before she died.
I'm not a hater, but that inconsistancy does exist.
I'm not a hater, but that inconsistancy does exist.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Whats emotional or thrusting about it? To me at any rate - it doesn't matter whether Leia actually knew her or if she just remembers images or words. I think the only emotion in that scene, for me, is derived from the sense that Luke is bailing on them, and choosing to face his father and/or the Emperor despite her protests. It's also the way that when Luke reveals their common parentage, she somehow always knew (which begs the question, why kiss your brother like that Leia?!).
I was talking to a friend earlier today and he shared the sentiment that the Vader scene would've been better if he had kept quiet.
After Vader asks about Padme and Palpatine tells him she's dead I would've had Vader just stand there staring forward while everything in the rooms gets torn apart and destroyed.
After Vader asks about Padme and Palpatine tells him she's dead I would've had Vader just stand there staring forward while everything in the rooms gets torn apart and destroyed.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I still say it would have been cool to have Palpatine back off a bit in fear when Vader lets out his force scream. As I said earlier, a look on his face t say "Perhaps I've unleased a monster I can't control" would have been cool.
Warm Machine
Member
So I was right about that scene where Anakin and Obi-Wan square off swinging their lightsabers about as making sense in the context of the movie. It was cut by the shot before it and the shot out of it and flowed perfectly. Thank God you guys don't see raw footage coming out of the lab because you'd think that all movies look like shit.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Warm Machine said:
lol I was actually thinking about the debate that raged here over that scene as it played out on screen. It did look much better in the context of the film, and I was also one of the posters saying that while it looked silly on 60 Mins, I'd reserve judgement until I saw it in the context of the movie.
I wasn't refering to you as a hater. it wasn't meant to be a generalized statement.Boogie said:
as for the inconsistency, as has already been said by me andf others, the original line in ROTJ was ambiguous at best, and insanely vague when examined literally.
Now one, and certainly the more simple explanation to this of course is that leia was with her for a while while luke was taken away immediately. However, there is NOTHING in here that directly supports that. It is our inference based on what is would probably be the most common interpretation. However because it is never directly stated, it could also mean other things. Such as that Leia has no clear memory of her real mother, just a feeling or what she believes to be a memory of her. And that is just looking at it from a human way. Throwing the force in there (Which we can OBVISOULY infer Leia is force sensitive) and you are talking a whole other can of worms.
So I really fail to see where the plothole is. Feel free to point it out. and before you check, I just popped the DVD in and took those lines directly from the movie.
Boogie9IGN
Member
Saw it yesterday, I really wanted to cry during
Best movie evar
Oh, and here's the pic of moi I promised GAF before goin to the movie with my friends:
(I am Han)
Order 66
Best movie evar
Oh, and here's the pic of moi I promised GAF before goin to the movie with my friends:
(I am Han)
mattx5 said:
I felt this scene was odd only because it would be...the Darth Vader we saw was not the one that would be seen in IV. It was still believing in love, loss, and the life he left behind. I think it came off as awkward, all of it, because it almost had to be. He's suddenly going to become a lifeless soul so soon after the suit? The suit, as Lucas probably wanted to show, simply allowed him to continue to live; for a time, it was the same person under the suit than there was without it.
The "Noooo" was a bit over the top and needed to be less awkward, but the sentiment was in the right place, I feel.
borghe said:and as the ultimate kick in the nuts to the haters, stick Jar Jar in the empty seat on the Death Star. Don't have him do or say anything. Just calmly sitting there as Vader chokes Moti.
That would be hilarious and so evil. Jar Jar becoming a high ranked officier of the empire after being taken for a fruitcake all his life
JoshuaJSlone
Member
So is this the Star Wars movie that takes place over the longest period of time? Certainly there are chunks in the others where it's not obvious how much time has passed, but in this case we know it at least goes from a time when Padme's pregnancy isnt' obvious to after childbirth, so maybe a half year even.
Were I casting director for a day, I would've gotten 14-year-old Jake Lloyd to be killed after Order 66. Just would've been a fun two-second cameo.
Were I casting director for a day, I would've gotten 14-year-old Jake Lloyd to be killed after Order 66. Just would've been a fun two-second cameo.
I mean his metal sash thing.mrkgoo said:
Yeah, must've skipped a small bit there. They're talking plans, Cody says something about how Obi-Wan's always been able to trust him, Obi-Wan and the crazy lizard thing start going up the cliff, Order 66 comes through, and they immediately turn the big guns on Obi-Wan, causing him to fall.ShadowRed said:
I believe his motivation died. He wanted to rule alongside Padme, but then that was no longer possible and he was satisfied to sulk as second banana. A chance comes along to be with his son, though, and he jumps at it.SickBoy said:
Boogie9IGN
Member
AniHawk said:
Yeah thats a HS
And he used it for like 3 seconds in ESB, so it's good enough for me
darkiguana
Member
borghe said:
You can also interpret it as Leia was referring to her adoptive mother(Bail Organa's wife). Perhaps she dies shortly after they adopt Leia. This is speculation of course.
darkiguana
That shot were you see part of Anakin's face sticking out of the base of the helmet when they start lowering the rest of it on his head was like the worst blue-screen/CGI shot ever created.
And any applause for Vader was quickly transformed into laughter by the infamous, NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
And any applause for Vader was quickly transformed into laughter by the infamous, NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
How many times do you figure you will see it in the theatre Mana?
And do you have a link to a DLP list (I have no idea if/where one is, I'm in Charlotte NC if that helps)?
I'd love to read a writeup from you detailing or elaborating on the DLP print if you've seen it (I would imagine at least one of the five showings were DLP or Imax :lol ). Cheers.
And do you have a link to a DLP list (I have no idea if/where one is, I'm in Charlotte NC if that helps)?
I'd love to read a writeup from you detailing or elaborating on the DLP print if you've seen it (I would imagine at least one of the five showings were DLP or Imax :lol ). Cheers.
DJ_Tet said:
Seeing it again on Sunday at the same DLP screen. Doing another mini-line event with the 501st from 11:00-4:00 before the movie. I don't know how many times I'll end up seeing it. Four out of five of my showings were digital. One was film.
Digital theater list:
http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/release/theater/digital_list.html
aparisi2274
Member
I saw it. It was good. Definately the best of the prequels. However there was a lot left to be desired.
1. Someone needs to tell Lucas to stop writing screenplay's. His dialogue is so mundane and corny, it detracts from his movies..
2. More Vader.
I also think I would have extended the timeline a little, isnt anyone curious as to what happens in between EP3 and 4? I know I am...
Anyway, if I had to rate all 6 movies, here is how they breakdown for me:
1. ESB
2. ANH
3. RotS
4. RotJ
5. AotC
6. TPM
I am pretty sure I will not be seeing it again until DVD, unless someone can tell me if there is any extra footage in the digital one that would make it worth it to go see....
1. Someone needs to tell Lucas to stop writing screenplay's. His dialogue is so mundane and corny, it detracts from his movies..
2. More Vader.
2mins of vader in a 2.5hr movie is not acceptable
I also think I would have extended the timeline a little, isnt anyone curious as to what happens in between EP3 and 4? I know I am...
Anyway, if I had to rate all 6 movies, here is how they breakdown for me:
1. ESB
2. ANH
3. RotS
4. RotJ
5. AotC
6. TPM
I am pretty sure I will not be seeing it again until DVD, unless someone can tell me if there is any extra footage in the digital one that would make it worth it to go see....
# Camelot Theater
48 E. Antrim Drive, Greenville, SC
%*$&#^$ damn backwards ass state
Well, I guess a road trip is in order in a couple of weeks. There was a spoiler mentioned earlier in this huge thread that the digital version either has an extra scene or is missing one? Can you elaborate on that or if I am remembering wrong?
---edit: answered
48 E. Antrim Drive, Greenville, SC
%*$&#^$ damn backwards ass state
Well, I guess a road trip is in order in a couple of weeks. There was a spoiler mentioned earlier in this huge thread that the digital version either has an extra scene or is missing one? Can you elaborate on that or if I am remembering wrong?
---edit: answered
Well, after he does, Palaptine actually mentions that he needs to delve deeper into the darkside to gain power to save padme. With every kill he makes, he digs deeper and deepre, and gets more and more powerful. Supposedly. It'd been neat if they showed this, like him struggling a bit at first, and also a little unsure, but later completely getting into it and nailing jedi.
Pretty disappointing, overall.
For the most part, the dramatic parts of the film are ruined by awful dialogue. Lucas used to have subtlety. When Luke cuts off his own father's hand, we hear Vader reduced to a pathetic yelp and feel sympathy for him. But here, when Vader lets out an overblown "Nooooooooo" that pretty much everybody laughs at. When ROTJ Luke looks down at his disabled father, we see the regret and fear in his face and as he looks at his hand. No need for a line here...everybody gets it.
In ROTS on the other hand, Lucas either can't get a good performance out of Hayden or he thinks we're stupid, because he has the guy sputter out cornball cliches like "What have I done?!" Instead of more elegantly showing us the character's remorse and confusion, he throws in a line so hackneyed that you probably wouldn't see it outside of a adolescent's short story. The already hated "You're breaking my heart" is another fine example of Lucas' writing ruining what should be a moving moment -- again he can't do much besides have characters outright say what they're feeling in the most awkward ways imaginable.
Who gives a shit if the awful "Birth of Vader" is a Frankenstein homage? How does that excuse it? It's not the place to be making an homage....particularly one so likely to elicit laughter.
The action is largely disappointing as well. All the battles are huge CGI jerkoffs -- mostly overblown and always very phony looking. Sadly, lightsaber battles are mostly crap as well. They are shot in close-up about half the time so you can't tell what the fuck is happening.....and when not in close-up the cuts are so quick and extreme that it obscures things as well. My expectations for this movie were pretty low -- all I wanted was some decent saber action -- and sadly they couldn't even deliver that. What happened to just pulling the camera back a bit and letting the actors have it? Things are much more languid and fluid in the OT, and even the previous 2 prequels seemed more disciplined.
Again, Lucas is over the top with the CG-induced laziness. Is there anything here that isn't fake and phony looking? The final scene of the movie was actually well thought out, but how bothersome is it that they couldn't even be bothered to build a moisture evaporator prop? Instead they have to have fake CG rods sticking up from the ground on Tatooine -- huh? It's actually kind of distressing to see one of the most organic settings of the OT turned into a sterile, fake, lifeless CG terrain.
As others have said, the film is a little too preoccupied with humping the far superior OT. Let's throw Chewbacca in just for the sake of having him there.....let's put in the Death Star even though it won't really makes sense to have it show up 20 years early.....blah blah. The one OT element that was worth exploring (Vader) gets just a couple minutes of screentime.
Maybe the best of the prequels (not sure if TPM is better), but still a mediocre and disappointing experience.
For the most part, the dramatic parts of the film are ruined by awful dialogue. Lucas used to have subtlety. When Luke cuts off his own father's hand, we hear Vader reduced to a pathetic yelp and feel sympathy for him. But here, when Vader lets out an overblown "Nooooooooo" that pretty much everybody laughs at. When ROTJ Luke looks down at his disabled father, we see the regret and fear in his face and as he looks at his hand. No need for a line here...everybody gets it.
In ROTS on the other hand, Lucas either can't get a good performance out of Hayden or he thinks we're stupid, because he has the guy sputter out cornball cliches like "What have I done?!" Instead of more elegantly showing us the character's remorse and confusion, he throws in a line so hackneyed that you probably wouldn't see it outside of a adolescent's short story. The already hated "You're breaking my heart" is another fine example of Lucas' writing ruining what should be a moving moment -- again he can't do much besides have characters outright say what they're feeling in the most awkward ways imaginable.
Who gives a shit if the awful "Birth of Vader" is a Frankenstein homage? How does that excuse it? It's not the place to be making an homage....particularly one so likely to elicit laughter.
The action is largely disappointing as well. All the battles are huge CGI jerkoffs -- mostly overblown and always very phony looking. Sadly, lightsaber battles are mostly crap as well. They are shot in close-up about half the time so you can't tell what the fuck is happening.....and when not in close-up the cuts are so quick and extreme that it obscures things as well. My expectations for this movie were pretty low -- all I wanted was some decent saber action -- and sadly they couldn't even deliver that. What happened to just pulling the camera back a bit and letting the actors have it? Things are much more languid and fluid in the OT, and even the previous 2 prequels seemed more disciplined.
Again, Lucas is over the top with the CG-induced laziness. Is there anything here that isn't fake and phony looking? The final scene of the movie was actually well thought out, but how bothersome is it that they couldn't even be bothered to build a moisture evaporator prop? Instead they have to have fake CG rods sticking up from the ground on Tatooine -- huh? It's actually kind of distressing to see one of the most organic settings of the OT turned into a sterile, fake, lifeless CG terrain.
As others have said, the film is a little too preoccupied with humping the far superior OT. Let's throw Chewbacca in just for the sake of having him there.....let's put in the Death Star even though it won't really makes sense to have it show up 20 years early.....blah blah. The one OT element that was worth exploring (Vader) gets just a couple minutes of screentime.
Maybe the best of the prequels (not sure if TPM is better), but still a mediocre and disappointing experience.
border said:
I was thinking about this recently. You know, gone are the days of needing to build model spaceships and hanging them on strings with robotic cameras. Sure, they may not be perfect, but since when have sci-fi movies/fantasy seemed as real as reality? I for one applaud the fact that Lucas is atleast trying to make CGI more and more standard, because that is where Special effects in movies has always been heading. It's really not that bad in EPisode III is it? Certainly not as vomitingly bad as some made for TV effects like "Charmed" or something. It's like you sit there studying the pixle outline of CGI characters, or spaceship scenes. You know like if you looked at the models in LotR, you can tell they're just minatures. Or if you studied makeup for wounds in action movies, or a whole number of things. What about Luke AND Vaders severed hands in the OT? As if they didn't look like prosthetic attachments. It's all about just going, "Hey, yyeah, it looks crap, but it doesn't matter, it doesn't detract". Jesus, just lean back and let it grab you...if you are always so 'observant', then you know, you may never enjoy another blockbuster movie in future.
Oh, I;m not just mindlessly getting defensive either, it was something that was irking you, and that was something that was irking me. All your criticism are valid, as they ARE your opinions. I dare not label someone as having no taste or something - everyone is entitled to their perceptions.
mrkgoo said:
Each prequel movie uses more miniatures than the entire OT combined. Haters refuse to accept that and even bash the miniatures used as "bad CG". Heard one guy complaining that the Kashyyyk trees were horrible CG. They were giant miniatures. Same goes for Mustafar, Utapau, etc.
Because a bullet wound in some other movie might look fake, Lucas is greenlighted to fill up 80% of every frame with fake looking CG? I don't think that flies. It can be okay for space battles, but for pretty much anything organic is still looks phony and should be used a lot more sparingly. LOTR is a much better example of CG use (and even that I have problems with)....and I honestly think their miniatures are more convincing than most of the PT's CG buildings. Maybe miniatures look fake if you inspect closely, but CG looks fake even at a glance.
At this point it's not even about "special effects", he's replacing easily constructed sets and props with CG that just isn't believable.
At this point it's not even about "special effects", he's replacing easily constructed sets and props with CG that just isn't believable.
Amir0x said:
You know, not to bash LotR or anything, but any of the CG in LotR can look just as fake if you look close enough. Manytimes, it's just masked by darkness. Even Gollum, blees his little cotton socks, can look not totally convincing. Yes, he is probably better than most, or even ALL CG characters before him, but it's not like anything from Episode I-II were so terrible. It's like people want to point out how smart they are that they can tell what is CG and what isn't.
Manabyte: Wow, I didn't know that. that's cool. I understand they never made a clonetrooper suit at all in EpII (all CG), what was EPIII like in this regard? I think some of the Temuera heads were CG (the space pilots?), but was he ever in a suit? Or all CG again?
border said:
Yeah, I can understand your sentiment. I like both ways of presenting things, but sometimes miniatures look just like tiny models. But like I said, that's me just watching too damn closely. I sometimes find myself seeing "CG landscapes" as fake, simply because you know it has to be CG, since there's no other way to have done that scene, but if you didn't know, they'd look pretty genuine. I see no beef in using computers for these kinds of thigns more and more, especially if it's to speed things up, or for cost, or efficiency issue. isn't that what computers are for?
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