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OUCH....PSM kills Lair and Warhawk...
- Thread starter Fady K
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DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
I'm just saying that claiming reviews have nothing to do with it is going too far - you're supposedly out to get the overreactive types in here, remember?
huh? you lost me with the second part....
Reviews of F1 games wouldn`t have much impact on offsetting the license vs. sales - the discrepancy appears to be that large - i`ve (strangely) known people who have worked on the F1 games , and the license cost has been the killer in recent years... when EA don`t want the license, you know something is up!
I had such high expectations for Lair. Ugh. I know I'll still end up buying it - review be damned!
Heavenly Sword is great but it's hardly a platform seller. My friggin' thumbs were killing me after 30 minutes with that title. What do we have to look forward to on the PS3 front this holiday season? Monster Kingdom, Folklore, Jericho, Assassin's Creed, Need for Speed, COD4? Opinions/thoughts needed on what, if any, titles that will drive PS3 hw sales before calendar Q1.
Heavenly Sword is great but it's hardly a platform seller. My friggin' thumbs were killing me after 30 minutes with that title. What do we have to look forward to on the PS3 front this holiday season? Monster Kingdom, Folklore, Jericho, Assassin's Creed, Need for Speed, COD4? Opinions/thoughts needed on what, if any, titles that will drive PS3 hw sales before calendar Q1.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That score for Warhawk is definitely surprising. I'm by no means fan of that genre, but it seemed pretty damn rock solid, and very fun from what I've played in the beta.
There's also Uncharted, R&C and GT5 Prologue to look forward to, at least I look forward to them more than most of the titles you mentioned.
HS to me seems like much more of a system seller compared to Lair, because it's all but guaranteed to be a quality game, that's among the best looking and best sounding games ever made. It also has that whadjamacallit, je nous se qua in droves, compared to Lair that looks to have about none :\driley said:
There's also Uncharted, R&C and GT5 Prologue to look forward to, at least I look forward to them more than most of the titles you mentioned.
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Anyone know why the two main guys from PSM left a few montsh ago? Did they get hired somewhere?
I used to like PSM growing up. Chris Why you leave!!!!
I used to like PSM growing up. Chris Why you leave!!!!BloodAdo said:
This is why people who write about games laugh at forum posters.
Trust me...95 percent of people who write about games (Rob Smith included) aren't Xbots or Nintendorks or whatever. They're just people who really, really like games, or have a talent for editing/managing a magazine about games.
That sort of obnoxious, die-hard console bias only truly has a home with game fans who can't afford all consoles, or else have some mistaken belief that one heartless corporation is somehow magically better than another heartless corporation.
To think that Rob Smith has a preference is patently absurd. Oh, and he was also an editor for a PC magazine and a poker magazine, too... Does that mean he hates all consoles?
Segata Sanshiro
Member
When you have to selectively highlight pieces to prove your point, you're not proving much. He sees something he likes about the 360 and something he doesn't like about the PS3 - should he not point it out? Does the choir simply want to be preached to? Are Sony fans truly becoming N64 era Nintendo fans?antiloop said:
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Wow looks like this Rob guy new Editor and Chief of PSM (the man responsible for both these reviews) really has it out for PS products:
Accoring to a poster at PSM:
Heres his answer to a question back when he was working for PC Gamer:
Q: Playstation 2. Do you own one and will consoles kill PCs or will the two mate and produce unholy offspring?
ROB:
No. Never will. Got a DVD player, so why do a I need one. And no they wont kill the PC because regardless of whether people like it or not, theres a social mentality built around the PC beyond gaming (home accounts, creating crappy holiday cards on the old printer, surfing for porn, writing resumes ) that wont be replaced by any of the new handhelds, and wont be available through consoles. Its a huge argument, and not one to go into here, but PCs are here to stay (for at least the next five years). But X-Box will kill the PS2 (tee-hee).
Actually I did find it funny that in one of his Editorial letters he recommends you buy a 360
I think I'm pages too late but I guess is worth posting again if it is.
Accoring to a poster at PSM:
Heres his answer to a question back when he was working for PC Gamer:
Q: Playstation 2. Do you own one and will consoles kill PCs or will the two mate and produce unholy offspring?
ROB:
No. Never will. Got a DVD player, so why do a I need one. And no they wont kill the PC because regardless of whether people like it or not, theres a social mentality built around the PC beyond gaming (home accounts, creating crappy holiday cards on the old printer, surfing for porn, writing resumes ) that wont be replaced by any of the new handhelds, and wont be available through consoles. Its a huge argument, and not one to go into here, but PCs are here to stay (for at least the next five years). But X-Box will kill the PS2 (tee-hee).
Actually I did find it funny that in one of his Editorial letters he recommends you buy a 360
I think I'm pages too late but I guess is worth posting again if it is.
angelcage87
Member
Hey i was going to buy these games but after such an important magazine said the games are shit i won't buy em anymore!
i played with warhawk and lair is awesome,so no matter what random douches will say about these games,i'm going to buy em...my own opinion ftw!
Metalmurphy
Member
PistolGrip said:
yeah
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7516878&postcount=486
Still worth it. And this thread should be dead by now.
Holy shit.
GAF needs its own Rapture.
(Not the city, the event)
The fact that you guys are working so hard to attack a magazine which you imply is worthless contradicts itself.
If its so worthless, why bother attacking it?
Jesus, if you played the demo and liked it, you'll like the full game.
Why does it matter so much what reviews say?
I think you "gamers" need to actually start playing more "games" instead of wasting GAF's bandwidth with this bullshit and your tears.
Grow the fuck up.
GAF needs its own Rapture.
(Not the city, the event)
The fact that you guys are working so hard to attack a magazine which you imply is worthless contradicts itself.
If its so worthless, why bother attacking it?
Jesus, if you played the demo and liked it, you'll like the full game.
Why does it matter so much what reviews say?
I think you "gamers" need to actually start playing more "games" instead of wasting GAF's bandwidth with this bullshit and your tears.
Grow the fuck up.
sonycowboy
Member
driley said:
What did I tell you?
Sony's just going to have to ride out 2007 and really make sure the quality of 2008 is of insane quality.
Motorstorm was shipped too early, Warhawk was reduced in scope and is good, but likely not great, LAIR looks beautiful but appears to lack high quality gameplay, and the demo for heavenly sword is beautiful, but cries of button masher and short will keep it down as well. I'll love SOCOM, but it's essentially SOCOM 2 HD.
So, from the first party perspective, that leaves Drake and Ratchet and Clank as the heavy hitters and Unreal Tournament 3 and Haze on the 3rd party side. 360 will get the lions share of Merceneries, Assassin's Creed, Rock Band, and COD 4 sales and won't be a differentiating factor.
Blu-Ray might be big for the PS3 with most of the big titles hitting Blu-Ray exclusively, albiet without Transformers & Bourne. I expect significant marketing tie in on this front during the holidays.
Unfortunately, these points will happen a lot for Warhawk, because most reviewers have their heads so far up their asses they can't see past the 'download' portion, and only think "$40?".
They do not treat STEAM the same way, and for this, I blame XBL for setting this shitty arcade standard. PSN is closer to STEAM, yet get's treated WAY differently.
They do not treat STEAM the same way, and for this, I blame XBL for setting this shitty arcade standard. PSN is closer to STEAM, yet get's treated WAY differently.
And reviews like Warhawk are what makes everyone laugh at people who write about games. Shit writing from gaming "journalists" are a huge reason the gaming industry is looked down upon. Great to hear that some of them go as far to laugh about their own inadequacies.MC Safety said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
No, the gaming industry is looked down upon because it's the goddamned Nerdlympics.Madman said:
tha_con said:
XBLA has good games at good prices. I don't see the problem with that. Both MS and Sony have been very explicit about how their services are different. There's certainly room for both and I quite like the Bomberman Live/Stardust/Pac-Man: CE/Calling All Cars types of games that we probably wouldn't see at all otherwise.
Metalmurphy
Member
Mojovonio said:
You think its wrong we "gamers" care when our "games" don't get fair reviews?
Shit that really is weird... :lol
Not to mention that its great fun to make fun at occasions like this so... what exactly is your problem?
Segata Sanshiro
Member
So wait. Are you for unfair reviews? Because that's sort of how you worded it.Metalmurphy said:
At any rate, I don't understand how this kicked up such a fuss. So many of you have played it that you know it doesn't suck, so uh...where's the problem?
Metalmurphy
Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
oops
fixed.Segata Sanshiro
Member
PSM =/= 1up/EGM/Uncle ZiffMr YuYu said:
PSM = Future PublishingWAITDON'TTHEYMAKEOXMCONSPIRACY
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Mr YuYu said:
1up podcast
!=
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
I won't be buying Warhawk until it has a price drop, but I was in the beta and played it a good bit.
I feel the review score is kind of low, personally, but Warhawk is by no means a fantastic game either. It's a rather by-the-numbers multiplayer affair that we have seen many times already on PC and other consoles. It's well made but it doesn't offer a thing new or exciting, IMO. It only gets the attention it does because the PS3 (and single console PS3 owners) desperately need a game like this in their catalog. It's a great diversion. I suggest all PS3-only gamers and any multi-console owners with huge multiplayer appetites pick it up.
I'd give it an 8.0. That's about what it deserves. Good, not great.
I feel the review score is kind of low, personally, but Warhawk is by no means a fantastic game either. It's a rather by-the-numbers multiplayer affair that we have seen many times already on PC and other consoles. It's well made but it doesn't offer a thing new or exciting, IMO. It only gets the attention it does because the PS3 (and single console PS3 owners) desperately need a game like this in their catalog. It's a great diversion. I suggest all PS3-only gamers and any multi-console owners with huge multiplayer appetites pick it up.
I'd give it an 8.0. That's about what it deserves. Good, not great.
Kabuki Waq
Member
spwolf said:
played tetris for 10,000 hours ....should they sell it for $20 million?
having an multiplayer only game for $40 with no bots is ridiculous. The most fun i have had in MP games is setting up matches between friends and bots.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Do any of you bitching about PSM actually read it? They do their share of PS brand cheerleading. But what else would they have had to write about the last 9 months if they ignored the problems with the PS3? Is that not the biggest story? Don't Sony fans want the situation to improve vis-a-vis the 360? That editorial can be taken as advice or a call to arms as someone else suggested.
I'm buying Warhawk based on the glowing beta impressions. But those come from is a highly self-selective group: people who owned a PS3 before the price drop and who are savvy enough to know what a multiplayer beta is and participate in it. Obviously most of those people are going to love it, but that's not the whole PS-brand fanbase that PSM services.
But they should have had two reviews, one from a normal person and one from someone that really loves multiplayer games. That's the best solution.
I'm buying Warhawk based on the glowing beta impressions. But those come from is a highly self-selective group: people who owned a PS3 before the price drop and who are savvy enough to know what a multiplayer beta is and participate in it. Obviously most of those people are going to love it, but that's not the whole PS-brand fanbase that PSM services.
But they should have had two reviews, one from a normal person and one from someone that really loves multiplayer games. That's the best solution.
Madman said:
Whatever.
You're arguing that a game you haven't played a final build of deserves a higher score? Is that it?
Have you even read the review? Or are you just bitching at a number because, what, you just really like Sony?
Do you even know what a 6.5 out of 10 represents on PSM's scale?
I'm not debating this, but I will say that a huge portion of the negative view on gaming is caused by poor gaming journalists(see: nearly every one of them). Whether it be bias (which is extremely common), shit reviews (i.e. barely playing a game or not finishing game before wiriting the review), or just the poor writing in general, they do a lot to make sure games will never be seen as anything more than a oddity as opposed to a art form.Segata Sanshiro said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
It's an interesting theory, but I can't agree with a "huge portion" being caused by journalists who work at magazines whose entire readership couldn't fill the city of Winnipeg.Madman said:
Well, I and many others played the beta, and we all seem to argee the score is very low.MC Safety said:
I think it's BS whenever a game gets a low score. Direct me to the review and I will read it. I liked "teh Sony bias" dig BTW.
It would seem to represent a 6.5 out of 10. I would guess that means a bit more than mediocre, but not good(7.0), great(8.0), excellent(9.0), or outstanding(10.0).
Segata Sanshiro said:
Really, who pays attention to games journalism beyond a bunch of hardcore nerds and the occasional kid looking for how to get big head mode in Cruis'n for the Wii? It's not like, e.g., entertainment journalists that are blasted into everyone's living rooms every night of the week. And if you look at mainstream reporting on video games, it's usually far worse than most of the stuff that's in the gaming media.
People are just grasping at straws here; it's quite entertaining. A largely unknown reviewer in a low-circulation magazine giving a low score to a relatively obscure title is holding back gaming. Games like Bomberman Live and Calling All Cars and their low prices are killing the future of gaming and enabling blatant injustices against higher-priced games. I'm really looking forward to what's next.
driley said:
I don't think any games in the PS3 catalogue will be able to sell the system, until Killzone 2 at least. Maybe MGS4. Heavenly Sword might have a chance, but that's a big if and I doubt it. All the games with the most sales potential coming out for the PS3 are multiplatform and available on a cheaper 360.
Sony will need to rely on the PS brand again. I predict PS3 sales will still be 30-40% below the 360's from now till the end of the year in the US. A smart thing to do would be to advertise the system as a Blu-Ray player extensively, to go along with the massive amount of HDTV purchasers that are about to jump the fence. People don't realize HD-DVD's potential at a lower price point and now would be the perfect time to use the PS3's best strength against a deluge of cheap HD players. I don't think Sony can expect massive sales on a game like Uncharted, I mean come on. Won't happen.
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Yes I have read it since it came out more than 10 years ago. And No PSM doesn really cheerlead the PS3. They had been very hard on them. They called the price a mistake and constantly brought out all its faults. However they were fair when they did these things. ROB is a known XBox activist. It is much different. Chris Editor and Chief and Gary (another top guy) left and the Magazine and it has now lost is personality. ROB now constantly writes borderline trollish comments on the Editorial letter. The man probably doesnt own a single PS product, so why is he Editor and Chief of the best selling PS Magazine in the US? Its crazy.Guileless said:
Research has been done that Reviews dont sell games. Marketing does. Lair, Heavenly Sword and Warhawk will sell simply due to marketing. Its definitely a blow on reputation though.rs7k said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Uh. OPM's been gone for like...half a year.AstroLad said:
I'm getting tired of the PSM bashing because you violently disagree with someone else's opinion. So what, he worked at OXM. Is there some sort of law that you can't change jobs because you might offend console fanboys? It's video games, Xbox and Playstation are very similar, so it's not like he should be disqualified for the job. His editorial was a little risky, but it was still the truth. It wasn't so much ragging on Sony for the sake of it as it was, Sony needs to improve to compete with Live, and they really do.
Conspiracy theories indicating that he joined PSM as some sort of "Microsoft saboteur" is really just a hint you all need to get laid pronto.
Conspiracy theories indicating that he joined PSM as some sort of "Microsoft saboteur" is really just a hint you all need to get laid pronto.
Now, sit there and think to yourself, why is that? Why is it that only a select group of hardcore users read gaming publications? It certaintly isn't because there aren't a lot of gamers. It's because of the poor state of that sect of the industry. If people wrote solid material, gamers would read it. But if you have a better explanation, I'm all ears.AstroLad said:
Synless
Member
MC Safety said:
A) Let's take games like final fantasy which not everyone likes but they generally get scored high now if that game isn't for everybody do they score it lower? No so why should they do it because it's a multiplayer game?
B) Seriously? it's a 6.5 out of 10 it doesn't take much common sense to realize that a score like that is not good no matter how you try and spin it.
C) Who are you to say I hadn't read the review? your stretching very far to make any excuse you can.
Synless said:
I would bet you haven't read the review. If you had, you would be able to quote the PSM review scale...and you would know exactly what a 6.5 out of 10 represents on the scale.
Now...answer the questions.
Why can't someone have a different opinion from yours?
What does a 6.5 out of 10 represent on PSM's scale?
Have you read the review text?
Madman said:
But you were istating that a "huge portion of the negative view on gaming is caused by poor gaming journalists"--that poor games journalism is a driving force behind negative perceptions of the industry. That's absolutely not the case. It's not as if people pick up Harper's, WSJ, and EGM and say "wow, the games industry is very immature." You're absurdly overestimating the amount of people that have even so much as glanced at games media outside of gamers. Further, Entertainment Weekly et al. don't stop movies from being considered art, so even taking your poor assumption as true it still doesn't support your point. You're just completely barking up the wrong tree.
"Now, sit there and think to yourself, why is that? Why is it that only a select group of hardcore users read gaming publications? It certaintly isn't because there aren't a lot of gamers. It's because of the poor state of that sect of the industry. If people wrote solid material, gamers would read it. But if you have a better explanation, I'm all ears."
You have to pay to read those magazine reviews, and people don't want to?
You have to pay to read those magazine reviews, and people don't want to?
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