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[Foliorum Viridum]

Once they hit spoiler territory for Batman I had to skip a lot of the convo. I don't know why - I'm not overly interested in the story of the game - but I still dislike playing a game knowing how the story is going to unfold.

I liked the fanboy talk a lot, though, and I think they pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's quite refreshing to hear the idiots who start such "controversies" as Anthony's review of Uncharted 2 called out for being what they are.

 

[daycru]

Just listened to a few minutes of the podcast. They were talking about fanboyism and reactions to reviews. I know Jeff kind of tried to kill the topic early on, but it bears repeating. It is a small minority of gamers who whine about console exclusive reviews. Hell, it is a small minority who whine about reviews period. They are just freaking loud.

Even looking at a thread here talking about a game, there will be 5-6 people whining about "IGN only game it a 8.9!!!! DAMN THEM!!!". The rest of the people are talking about thier experience with the game and a greater number of people are lurking, not saying shit.

It is just annoying that podcasts get on a tangent about a few vocal people who don't even come close to representing gamers as a whole.

8.8 says otherwise.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I don't really get why people are so sensitive about spoilers. It seems like it's only getting worse and worse. I can't remember people being so overly concerned about them when I was younger, anyway. When I think about it, one of the first really spoiling spoilers I can recall is the one in The Sixth Sense. It's mainly after that I've started to notice this spoiler senstivity more and more, especially in TV shows such as Lost, Prison Break and etc.

Lost, which had a great first season, is now so packed with ridiculous storylines constructed to be twists that everything in an episode is considered spoiler territory. To me that's just plain bad story, but whatever. Is that one influence; TV-shows that are relying more on cheap twists to lure the viewers into some superficial commitment -- a modern version of a cliffhanger -- and video games trying to usurp some of that type of storytelling?

Anyhow, in some cases a spoiler might actually -- to some degree, at least -- spoil whatever story there is (see the twist in Bioshock for one example), but generally I don't think it's a problem, not when it comes to video games. What's even worse is when people get upset because someone mentions the type of location/level or item/weapons in an upcoming game.

I understand people wanting to come "fresh" into a game, but god damn, there's gotta be some limit to it, no? Not once during Batman: Arkham Asylum did I come upon a twist or part of the story that felt like it could be spoiled that much by me knowing about it, really.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

the Scarecrow sections basically relied on the player not knowing what to expect before they occurred. if that's not something worth treading lightly over, I don't know what is.

 

[itsinmyveins]

the Scarecrow sections basically relied on the player not knowing what to expect before they occurred. if that's not something worth treading lightly over, I don't know what is.

Honestly, they don't tell you anything you don't know about Batman. Most of that is what I'd considered common knowledge. What's impressive about those parts then, is the way it's put together and how they tell the already known background of Batman so well. It's all very visual and reading a line or two about it on a forum isn't gonna take much away from that, I'd think.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Glad to hear Sean liked RE5. I don't think it's fair to say the consensus on GAF was that RE5 was a POS. A lot of people like me really liked the game. I played the hell out of it and beat it on every difficulty mode in COOP mode. And mostly because of those things Sean mentioned. I like twitch games too. But I thought RE5 style was a refreshing change of pace. Same for Batman too really. You make very deliberate planed actions in that game. And when everything falls in line according to your plan it is satisfying.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Glad to hear Sean liked RE5. I don't think it's fair to say the consensus on GAF was that RE5 was a POS. A lot of people like me really liked the game. I played the hell out of it and beat it on every difficulty mode in COOP mode. And mostly because of those things Sean mentioned. I like twitch games too. But I thought RE5 style was a refreshing change of pace. Same for Batman too really. You make very deliberate planed actions in that game. And when everything falls in line according to your plan it is satisfying.

Yeah, agreed. Most people seemed to like it, although not as much as RE4 due to obvious reasons (being a very similar game and all). I liked it as well, but not nearly as much as Shawn seems to. But then again I haven't been able to try it out in co-op either, which seems to be what he's played mainly. I'm sure that's a blast, but I pretty much refuse to play online with other than people I know and I don't know a lot of people who own RE5.

 

[Sipowicz]

they were spot on about uncharted 2 reviews, same thing happened with twilight princess. there's always a minorityof people who take serious offence at games getting poor scores

it's embarassing

 

[Virro]

they were spot on about uncharted 2 reviews, same thing happened with twilight princess. there's always a minorityof people who take serious offence at games getting poor scores

it's embarassing

No waggle = -.5 on the score.

 

[randomwab]

Did everyone really hate Resident Evil 5 that much? I thought a lot of people disliked it to a degree, but the general opinion was that it was still great.

I still feel RE5 got a harsh reception from the usual foaming at the mouth fanboys because they had there expectations set to a Resident Evil 4 level, which in my opinion, it didn't hit. That being said, I never expected Resident Evil 5 to be as good as 4, and it was still a fantastic game.

Having just replayed 4 over the weekend on Wii, it definitely is the superior of the two though. There are just a few things that really make the difference, like the pacing, the upgrade and inventory systems, the treasure and the variety in levels. I also liked that they tried to make it a separate story from the rest of the series. Sure, a few characters and plot pieces still carried over, but for the most part it was able to get rid of the baggage, something I think weighed 5 down and got in the way several times.

Hearing Shawn mention replaying levels to farm cash was funny, because it's the same thing a few friends and myself did. The best chapter to do it on was 4-1, and we were able to upgrade a ton of stuff using that method. Eventually, I was able to buy and upgrade every weapon in the game, which I have a shameful achievement to prove.

How is the PC version? I’ve been kind of tempted to pick it up, especially after playing 4 on Wii. The controls on that version were fantastic, and I imagine the PC version has something similar.

 

[wolfmat]

I don't enjoy the Batman game. I think it's stupid.

And I love the comics!

 

[McBacon]

I don't enjoy the Batman game. I think it's stupid.

And I love the comics!

We can't shoot down your stupid opinion if you don't give us more to go on.

 

[wolfmat]

We can't shoot down your stupid opinion if you don't give us more to go on.

:lol I don't think my criticism is really substantial. Let's just say I would have enjoyed it more if it was one giant cutscene. To me, the game is filler.
Just played 3 hours, so maybe I missed something, but I don't think I'll check it out again.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

if it's worth anything, I think the game gets substantially better as you go on.

 

[randomwab]

if it's worth anything, I think the game gets substantially better as you go on.

Agreed. I disliked the demo, but still took a chance and grabbed the PC version after hearing everyone praise it. I was totally wrong, it's a fantastic game. Ended up poop-socking it for two days straight. :lol

However, he did say he played the game for about 3 or so hours. I don't think playing it further will make him change his mind at this point.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

Yes! Came on GAF to get a podcast of some kind to listen to while I clean my flat from top to bottom, and here I find a new Out of the Game. My heroes!

 

[itsinmyveins]

Yes! Came on GAF to get a podcast of some kind to listen to while I clean my flat from top to bottom, and here I find a new Out of the Game. My heroes!

Yeah, it's perfect for that kind of thing; I often listen do it while I'm doing my laundry :lol

 

[Curufinwe]

1up's C+ is turned into 70% by Gamerankings, so maybe Jeff can suggest to his bosses that EA use that site instead of Metacritic.

http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/959661-mysims-agents/articles.html?sort=5

I personally like and use gamerankings a lot more, (partly because I think they do a better job of converting scores to percentages) and I wonder why Metacritic gets mentioned so often like it's the only site out there averaging game reviews.

RE5 is a fun game, but I think a lot of people's issues with it stem from a certain lack of character it has in comparison to RE4. It's hard to define, but if you were to go back and play RE4, Shawn, you might notice some of the tiny but oh so important things that RE5 doesn't quite implement as well, such as the inventory which was scrapped in the name of an unintrusive online co-op experience, the game's basic economy system which loses the gradual build RE4's had thanks to the ability to weapon farm (choosing upgrades lacks urgency, it's vaguely comparable to Batman's leveling up choices), the gun variety (there may be more, yes, but in the name of realism they ditched the wacky names and designs in favour of real world counter-parts, which makes them a whole lot less satisfying) and the environment's lack of a real visual charisma (there's nothing as iconic as RE4's Castle, Village or Island, thanks in part to how quickly you're whisked around the continent).

Very well said.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

Great show, although it wasn't long enough for me to finish all the cleaning (darn you bath tub!).

It was very refreshing to hear some RE5 defense, as it did seem to be dismissed alot, especially on Listen Up where John called everyone who bought the game an idiot.

Still haven't played Batman yet(apart from the demo) I really would like to play the whole thing. I feel I'm missing out.

 

[Zeliard]

Batman's demo isn't a great indicator of what the game's really like. There's surprisingly little combat in the full game, and stealth sections improve immeasurably once you unlock a few gadgets. The pacing is flawless.

 

[Broseybrose]

Im thinking this is as good a place to ask as any:

Shawn, everytime you mention a book i think it sounds good and i think id like to read it, but by the time i get to the bookstore i forget them.

so can you recommend your top 5 books that youd consider essential reading? (especially the book you mentioned on the previous OOTG - something like "your brain on music")

 

[SmZA]

so can you recommend your top 5 books that youd consider essential reading? (especially the book you mentioned on the previous OOTG - something like "your brain on music")

He gave the wrong name anyway, it was 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks.

 

[Y2Kev]

He gave the wrong name anyway, it was 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks.

I went to a lecture by him last year...he was really fascinating. Interesting intersection of neuroscience and musicology.

 

[JeffGreen]

He gave the wrong name anyway, it was 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks.

No, they are two different books:
This Is Your Brain on Music.

A fantastic read, btw.

 

[Foxtastical]

More BF2 talk soon?

And to chime in on the spoilers stuff, keep doing them. I still need to play Batman, but the spoilers didn't bother me at all. I'd rather hear informed discussion than people dancing around a topic.

 

[dasupremeone]

mania and fanatics will never go away, especially in videogames, cars, women, and music.

 

[Thomper]

Good episode, and don't worry about spoilers. I'f I'm really worried I might get spoiled, I myself would just wait with listening to a particular segment. In most cases, though, I never get around to playing most of the games people talk about on podcasts, and as such I just want to hear a good argument/discussion about that. Doing that without fear of spoiling stuff works far better.

No, they are two different books:
This Is Your Brain on Music.

A fantastic read, btw.

More book recommendations, please. Winter's coming, and with an ever-falling dollar it's getting incredibly cheap to buy English books. I've picked up past GFW/Brodeo-recommendations and appreciated them, so yeah, anything you guys can recommend now: much appreciated.

Doesn't even have to be from the OOTG-crew - if it's likeminded posters here with tips, great. There's a law in the Netherlands which prevents bookprices from going down, which is horrible if you're like me, and you like reading stuff but you're kind of a cheapskate. Luckily, the law doesn't apply to English literature, so we can get most English books for half the price of a Dutch-version of the same book, if not even cheaper.

 

[Helmholtz]

Ooh, game discussion, awesome
Looking forward to it.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Just listened. At the beginning, either Shawn or Robert talks about how funny it would be for someone to dress up in full Star Trek outfits and go to a Renaissance Fair.

I chuckled, because I saw exactly that a couple of years ago at the local Ren Fest. A group of super nerds (or maybe they were fucking with the whole world; I don't know) were dressed in full Starfleet uniforms, and had transmitters in their hands. They were loudly "reporting back to the ship" and saying things like "this planet we're exploring seems very... medieval"!

 

[overthehill99]

N'Gai's laugh is the most annoying, most anger inducing thing in the history of the world. It sounds like an exhale, followed by a weird empty clicking sound.

Still love the show guys.

 

[truly101]

Now that 1up yours/Listen Up is finally dead, this may end up being the enthusiasts choice of podcasts for gaming related info and musings. It may be not what you guys intended, but your opinions are pretty well respected among GAF and other gaming communities. We wanna know whatchu think about shit, yo.

 

[Broseybrose]

He gave the wrong name anyway, it was 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks.

No, they are two different books:
This Is Your Brain on Music.

A fantastic read, btw.

So which is better? I guess i can pick up both, if theyre both worth the time.

 

[ghst]

Good to hear. Ghst, give it a listen and see if you agree?

As for Risen -- I mean to try it. My friends are all playing it at the moment and love and insist I won't.

oh, i wouldn't argue that. but then the fusion of personalities served up could gain insight from a pile of coal if challenged to it. (edit: compliment)

it just seems it's the nature of aaa games to leave my inner monologue pretty blank. like lore stated, they are often largely channelled experiences, which don't rely on any particular level of expression from player to be effective.

that's what always made shawn's coh war stories so fascinating. a good rts matchup is like a debate, units=volcabuary, tactics=discourse, strategy=core argument, there is an infinite room for competitive expression here.

i hope you get where i'm coming from here, and i'm not simply advocating rts talk, it just seems the personalities on hand and the tone of the show could be served better by shunning the majority of big releases in favour of those with a little opportunity for narrative. i'm guessing it would come with a little less risk for fallout from your tyrannical corporate overlords too.

i will say that this is the first skypecast that had successfully managed to emulate something resembling studio chemistry though. it still isn't quite there, but much closer than i ever expected when the project first got off the ground.

 

[nilbog21]

Shawn, you are brilliant. THANK YOU!!!

 

[FartOfWar]

I'm playing Flashpoint and Risen for the next show.

 

[JeffGreen]

So which is better? I guess i can pick up both, if theyre both worth the time.

Well, I didn't read the Oliver Sacks one, so I can't tell ya. But "This is Your Brain.." was fascinating.

And if you lot haven't yet read Junot Diaz's "The Brief, Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao", get thee to a bookstore (preferably a local, independent one!). Hilarious and sad (and Pulitzer Prize winning!) novel about a nerdy gamer clod JUST LIKE US.

 

[FartOfWar]

Shawn, you are brilliant. THANK YOU!!!

What makes you say that?

 

[Cat in the Hat]

I'm playing Flashpoint and Risen for the next show.

You'll finally be able to shake off that Gothic 3 experience you had. :lol

Looking forward to your thoughts on it.

 

[FartOfWar]

Good episode, and don't worry about spoilers. I'f I'm really worried I might get spoiled, I myself would just wait with listening to a particular segment. In most cases, though, I never get around to playing most of the games people talk about on podcasts, and as such I just want to hear a good argument/discussion about that. Doing that without fear of spoiling stuff works far better.

More book recommendations, please. Winter's coming, and with an ever-falling dollar it's getting incredibly cheap to buy English books. I've picked up past GFW/Brodeo-recommendations and appreciated them, so yeah, anything you guys can recommend now: much appreciated.

Doesn't even have to be from the OOTG-crew - if it's likeminded posters here with tips, great. There's a law in the Netherlands which prevents bookprices from going down, which is horrible if you're like me, and you like reading stuff but you're kind of a cheapskate. Luckily, the law doesn't apply to English literature, so we can get most English books for half the price of a Dutch-version of the same book, if not even cheaper.

Here's some of my recent reading:

Rubicon
The Brain that Changes Itself
The Nine
Sway
The Forever War
The Paradox of Choice
How We Decide
Drunkard's Walk
The Chris Farley Show: A Biography in Three Acts
Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex
The Female Brain

 

[Jokergrin]

"Let's talk about Jew stuff!"

lol you gotta do that new voice more next time

 

[itsinmyveins]

I'm playing Flashpoint and Risen for the next show.

Just started playing it, but I haven't really gotten a grasp of it -- I'm only one or two missions in. One thing that was quite annoying is that during the tutorial you get prompts to tell you what to do, yet they won't list the proper key for it. So I'm constantely forced to either open up the menu or the go through the manual which definitely breaks the pacing. Also, it seems like sprinting barely gets you anywhere faster than walking.

 

[FartOfWar]

Just started playing it, but I haven't really gotten a grasp of it -- I'm only one or two missions in. One thing that was quite annoying is that during the tutorial you get prompts to tell you what to do, yet they won't list the proper key for it. So I'm constantely forced to either open up the menu or the go through the manual which definitely breaks the pacing.

I suspect that's another byproduct of contardation (same reason I suspect there's no leaning or ability to look around while behind the wheel of a vehicle).

 

[itsinmyveins]

I suspect that's another byproduct of contardation (same reason I suspect there's no leaning or ability to look around while behind the wheel of a vehicle).

I have little to no knowledge about the development process and goals they had with this game, but yeah, it seems like that. The Q-key is used to order people around/artillery/etc -- not leaning, then -- and I guess it's the way you do that kind of stuff on console, with its limited amount of buttons. Don't get me wrong though; I like that it's easy to use, but at the same time it seems like there' way too many options built into that type of menu.

The E-key is reserved to some cumbersome item system and interaction. And I still don't know how to switch back from the grenade launcher to the ordinary ammo without having to change weapons first.

Regarding the graphics, I dunno. There are a lot of low resolution textures. It doesn't stand a chance when put up against either Far Cry 2 (which I found to be spectacular looking game with incredibly frustrating gameplay) nor Crysis, in my opinion. I'm playing it on close to the highest setting on PC, by the way.

 

[Blast Processing]

Here's some of my recent reading:

Rubicon
The Brain that Changes Itself
The Nine
Sway
The Forever War
The Paradox of Choice
How We Decide
Drunkard's Walk
The Chris Farley Show: A Biography in Three Acts
Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex
The Female Brain

Please tell me how you can have time to read all that between working, playing games, having a life, reading GAF, and watching awesome HBO series.

 

[Broseybrose]

Well, I didn't read the Oliver Sacks one, so I can't tell ya. But "This is Your Brain.." was fascinating.

And if you lot haven't yet read Junot Diaz's "The Brief, Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao", get thee to a bookstore (preferably a local, independent one!). Hilarious and sad (and Pulitzer Prize winning!) novel about a nerdy gamer clod JUST LIKE US.

Here's some of my recent reading:

Rubicon
The Brain that Changes Itself
The Nine
Sway
The Forever War
The Paradox of Choice
How We Decide
Drunkard's Walk
The Chris Farley Show: A Biography in Three Acts
Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex
The Female Brain

thanks for the recommendations fellas! bookstore here i come. (jeff - independent bookstores dont last very long in the wasteland that is the fort lauderdale / miami area, but ill check to see if any new ones opened up.)

 

[wolfmat]

Please tell me how you can have time to read all that between working, playing games, having a life, reading GAF, and watching awesome HBO series.

I don't know how he does it, but I read when I go to bed. You can churn through quite an amount of books that way.

 

[Scribble]

You can always make time to read, no matter how hectic your life is. I'm now going to go read a few pages of Neverwhere.

 

[Rahk]

Please tell me how you can have time to read all that between working, playing games, having a life, reading GAF, and watching awesome HBO series.

Not to mention watching and posting shit on Twitter.

 

[SickBoy]

I'd recently thought about restarting a blog with a series on reviews (a hall of shame of crappy writing -- "premier" sites like IGN include).

But listening to this episode does raise a sad question: does anyone really care?

People on forums are so much more interested in debating the digits at the end of a review that a piece of crap like IGN's Killzone 2 review (oops, I mean a 3,700 word piece of crap like IGN's Killzone 2 review) somehow passes muster with gamers, because the score is seen as passable. But it's a brutal slog of a review.

The first 500 of IGN's review, for your reading pleasure:

Is it possible for the hype of a game to completely fuel both its designers and its fans eagerly awaiting its release? In the case of Guerrilla Games' upcoming Killzone 2, the answer is an emphatic yes; the developers knew that they wanted to meet or surpass the action of the now infamous E3 trailer and have been trying to perfect their anticipated shooter. As far as fans were concerned, they were hoping that Killzone 2 would be the system seller and showcase for the PlayStation 3 -- a game that could conceivably rival that of Halo and Gears of War. Fortunately, the wait is almost over, because Killzone 2 will be released at the end of next month. That might seem a bit far away, but believe me when I say that the wait has been well worth it. Killzone 2 is an outstanding evolution of the franchise, a bullet and adrenaline-fueled rampage against an implacable enemy and a fantastic shooter for the PS3.

Killzone 2 is actually the third chapter in the series, following the original PS2 shooter and Killzone: Liberation, a third-person action title on the PSP. While players don't need to have played either one of those games to understand what's going on in Killzone 2, fans of the franchise will see connections between the three games with familiar characters popping up and events being referenced. The basic thrust of the story takes place after the events of Liberation, where the ISA has finally gotten tired of being invaded and attacked on its world of Vekta. While the relative success of repelling the Helghast has worked, the ISA has decided to take the fight back to Emperor Visari. Believing that the Helghast spirit has been broken by their losses on Vekta, the ISA launches a "revenge" invasion against the world of Helghan with the goal of capturing Visari and forcing the Helghast to stand down. Of course, the ISA quickly discovers that this is not the case at all, and as the soldiers discover that the Helghast spirit is just as fierce on their home world than ever before, they also that discover the Helghast have new weapons to unleash on their foes.

Unlike the previous games, you're not stepping into the boots of Templar, the hero of the first two titles, who's been promoted up the ranks to become a commander of a fleet and his own troops. Instead, you'll take on the Helghast as Sev, part of a four-man team known as Alpha Squad. Led by Rico (who players might remember from the first two games), Sev and his other teammates, Garza and Natko, fight their way across Helghan through ten separate missions that will take you about eight to ten hours to complete. Each mission you embark on has multiple checkpoints and objectives that you'll complete, and these will cover large battles, ambushes, choke points, house to house fighting and even vehicular and turret sequences. Of all the segments, I kind of wish that the vehicles and turrets were expanded because you get a sense of truly affecting and turning the tide of the location that you're in with these weapons at your disposal.

When I read stuff like this it makes me glad that I don't rely much on reviews for my buying decisions any more (KZ2 was one such game where I wanted to read some reviews due to the massive message-board hype and shouting down of all who dared question it...)

But what can you say? Dull? Grammatically lacking? Clumsily constructed? Yes, I suppose you could say all of those things.

Anyhow, into the Batman talk now, but enjoying this episode and I've really been liking the podcast in general. Wish it was a bit more regular, but maybe it's better when it pops in as a surprise in iTunes. I always put it last in my podcast rotation because I feel it ages better than other shows, but I think given how much I enjoy it, I might have to rethink that.

 

[Cant0na]

I feel like such a fanboy for writing this, but here it goes: Someone tell me if that quote by Shawn is in jest:

(They are talking about the PS3 and the fanboys that need to validate their system. Specifically there are not enough 10/10's on the system versus the 360. Time mark: 25:30)
"And It has been in question for a long time, I know a lot of studios sort of have been waiting to decide whether or not they want to make their games for that platform. When it's a multiplatform thing, they've been waiting for a price drop and it has been in such a situation."

If that was serious, who were those studios? I remember Activision dude saying such a thing and he got universally ridiculed for it because he would be locking himself out of an install base which is 85-90% of its main competitor.
(Global numbers, of course.)

Or maybe an example of a company that pulled through with such a thing?
For me the above reason is completely ludicrous. I understand technical reasons and porting because it would add extra cost and the PS3 is shitty to program for. But because the PS3 is too expensive? Why would they be concerned, they have the numbers how many have been sold. They know what they lock themselves out of.

And a small note about the Uncharted 2 game review. I don't mind a 4.5/5.0 because I understand that Anthony and Rory are not the same person. But other reviews site operate under the single voice system. Gametrailers is notable because they omit the writer's name, which leaves them wide open to be compared to each other. And an ex-Gamespot reviewer has recently said on the Bombcast that everyone on the staff reads the review and gives input and that makes Gamespot it a single voice example too.

:lol :lol :lol