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[Relaxed Muscle]

If Al-Qaeda got elected in Mexico I'm sure they'd be embargoed as well.

Ariel Sharon is the guy who removed the settlements from Gaza, just for the record.

And it's too the guy who greenlighted the construction of that shameful wall...., so what? I don't think a good decision compensates all the others and crimes he did...


It's fun seeing all those "when Hamas recognizes the State of Israel, negotiations would be possible" the POL did that...., but then some killed Isaac Rabin....

Israel had the best opportunity to end this back then, but they fuck it up, so know that bunch of zealots have the power and the peace is far far away....

 

[Xapati]

Reality is that no matter how hard you try there is no possible solution for this region. I tend to just ignore it. They've been fighting for the last 50 years and they'll continue to fight for the next 50 years.

 

[Walshicus]

I know you're being hypothetical, but your country would be the last country to blockade Israel[/l].

With the present government, probably. Still, one can indulge in a pleasant little fantasy...

Britain probably has quite a bit vested in parts of the middle east too.

For decades the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's pro-Palestine stance was a result of seeing our vested interests lying with empowering Arabs rather than Israelis. That did change with the "war on terror" though, when the government realised there was political capital to be made by keeping anti-Western tensions alive in the region and largely bypassed the FCO establishment.


On a different note, I wonder what it would take to reverse US popular opinion on this. A Saudi billionaire buying Fox or something [a hilarious thought!]? How do you offset decades of media spin?

 

[Fio]

If you was a Palestinian would you honestly accept this deal?

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9181.shtml

That's seven years old, speculation and an article written by a assumed anti-Israel journalist.

But I'm not even talking about the terms of negotiations. I'm just talking that before any negotiation takes place, Hamas must recognize the State of Israel, as Israel recognize the right of the palestinian people to have their own state. But as long as Hamas thinks that Israel must be destroyed, of course there won't be any negotiations.

As soon as hamas recognize Israel, as soon as it destroy all weapons and so on, Israel will find another excuse to keep the war.

Says who? You?

Seriously, you can have sympathy for terrorists, each one of us have our own moral grounds, but you can't ignore facts.
Israel has already declared, publicly, countless times, that as soon as the Hamas recognizes the State of Israel and stop hostilities there won't be attacks anymore and negotiations will start. So you are lying when you say that Israel will continue attacking.

Dont you people understand that Hamas, rather than being the cause of this "war", is just another excuse to justify Israel terrible genocidal-tactics?

So, during a truce, Hamas fires 300 rockets against israeli civilians and Israel is still to blame.
Hamas deliberately fires rockets against civilian people and you say me with a straight face that it's Israel that use genocidal tactics.
Hamas openly says that their goal is to destroy Israel, while Israel recognizes the right of palestinians to have their own state, and you say that it's Israel that wants a genocide.

Great!

Israel borders have ever since expading over palestine land. For israel government this is just a long term strategy to ocupy the whole palestine land. Massive checkpoints dividing palestine land and ruining its poor economy, massive israeli settlement, natural resources areas controlled by israel army. This is not a coincidence.

Maybe Israel should stop occupying territories used by terrorists and let them be used by terrorists to attack their civilian population. So these 300 rockets that Hamas fired against Israel civilian population would have hit their targets, I think that a lot of people would be delighted with the news that today, around 3000 jews died.

 

[kobashi100]

Sunday, 28 December 2008
Protesters across the Middle East have held a second day of demonstrations against Israel's military assault on the Gaza Strip.

In Yemen, tens of thousands of people gathered to show their support for the Gazans, while in the occupied West Bank protesters clashed with Israeli soldiers on Sunday.

During the Yemeni protest, held in the capital Sanaa, the crowds filled a sports stadium and the surrounding area chanting anti-Israeli slogans and criticising Arab leaders for failing to act.

"How long will the silence last? Arabs wake up!" read one banner held by demonstrators.

The demonstration was backed by the ruling party, opposition groups and other organisations.

Action demanded

In Lebanon, hundreds of Lebanese and Palestinians staged a sit-in near the United Nations office in central Beirut.

The protesters held banners calling on the global body to put pressure on Israel to end the attacks that have killed more than 280 people.

The protest was organised by the Lebanese-branch of the Muslim Gamaa group, along with Hamas and other groups. Lebanon is host to more than 400,000 Palestinian refugees living in 12 camps across the country.

Al Jazeera's Rula Amin, reporting from Beirut, said that people were demanding more decisive action from their leaders.

"From the people we have heard very critical remarks, not only against Israel, but also against Arab governments. Many were angry at the Egyptian government, they feel they needed to do more," she said.

'Firm stand'

The Hezbollah movement, which fought a 33-day war with Israel in 2006, has condemned tha attacks as a "war crime and a genocide that requires immediate action from the international community and its institutions".

In a statement, the group called on Arab countries to "take a firm stand and exert its utmost efforts against the Israeli barbarism - which is covered by the US - and the international community to stop this ongoing massacre".

The Arab League will not meet to discuss a common response to the Israeli assault until a summit in Doha, Qatar on January 2.

Arab foreign ministers were due to hold an emergency meeting on Sunday but the meeting was postponed until Wednesday.

Amr Moussa, the Arab League secretary-general, said the delay was because many ministers were busy in separate meetings of two Arab regional groups - the Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC) and the Maghreb Union.

"The time worries us very much because of the delay in holding the ministerial meeting but we will not remain silent and consultations are continuing," he said.

The attack will, however, be discussed by the GCC, which on Saturday described the situation as "barbaric" and "ugly".

Protest attacked

Demonstrations also took place across Iraq.

Dozens of Palestinian refugees gathered in Baghdad's eastern Baladiyad neighbourhood chanting anti-Israeli slogans and waving messages of support for Gaza.

Dalil al-Qasoos, the Palestinian ambassador to Iraq, said: "I'd like to say to my relatives and to my people in Gaza that Gaza will remain steadfast in the face of Americans and Zionists whatever the plots and conspiracies hatched by tyrants and arrogant enemies."

In Mosul, a suicide bomber blew himself up among a crowd of demonstrators killing at least four people and injuring 20 others, police said.

Al-Jazeera

 

[Agent Ghost]

Dont you people understand that Hamas, rather than being the cause of this "war", is just another excuse to justify Israel terrible genocidal-tactics?

Grow up. Are you really surprised that the stronger culture is consuming the weaker? It's Darwinism. History is filled with examples of this. Do you think Islamic Palestine will exist in 200 years? It is amusing you talk about Israels "genocidal-tactics" when the Hamas literally want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. Which is laughable by the way.

If Israel and Palestinians were rational and decent, Israel would offer to assimilate Palestine and Palestinians would agree. By a large margin Israel enjoys a higher living standard than Palestine. This would save decades of useless war. But no, ethnic and religious hatred prevent any common sense from either party.

The weak will always get crushed, nature is shitty that way.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

This thread is trully disgusting. It's pathetic how people batantly ignore known facts to keep their agenda going on.

These are undeniable facts, so if you are going to support the terrorists don't pretend that they don't exist:

- Israel has made it clear that while the Hamas doesn't recognize the State of Israel there will not be any negotiations. As soon as the Hamas recognizes the State of Israel and cease hostilities there will be negotiations. And they are absolutely right in that. You can't negotiate with someone whose goal is to kill you.

- Since Hamas' main goal is to destroy Israel (it's pathetic how the leaders of Hamas say they don't have any intention of recognizing Israel but some gaffers say they do.) it's obviously that Israel won't leave Gaza, because if they did Hamas would use the region to set up terrorist attacks.

- Hamas broke this ceasefire launching more than 300 rockets aimed specifically at civilians. Israel could have launched a counter-attack right away, but since there would be too many civilian casualities, and the State of Israel is not a terrorist state, Israel announced during 1 week, as loudly as possible in the regions attacked that there would be attacks, so the civil population could move to safe locations. Disgustingly Hamas used this time to launch even more rockets, all of them aimed to Israel civilians.

- If Israel wanted, they could assemble a gigantic army, start a war and destroy Hamas and other terrorist groups. But if Hamas could, they surely would assemble an army and completely destroy Israel and make the biggest genocide in the history, because they have already made it clear that this is their goal.

- Israel is willing for a peaceful solution, Israel has already recognized the right of the palestinian people to have their own State and declared that negotiations are possible if Hamas recognizes the State of Israel. Now it's up to Hamas to do their part. But Hamas prey on palestinian blood, so these attacks from Israel are in their best interests.


In the end I think that it'd be much better if people that don't know shit about this conflict stayed quiet and didn't be moved by the stupid feeling of having simpathy for the weakest. Because that's exactly what happens.

In humanitarian terms, Israel's actions have been worse than the words and actions of Hamas for some time now. It's not particularly close, either. Hamas may want to wipe out Israel, but Israel's actually doing it to the Palestinians. As vile as Hamas is, it says a lot about Israel that its actions are causing far more suffering and death than those of Hamas.

 

[Tmac]

So by your logical, holocaust was a good thing?

 

[Nerevar]

And it's too the guy who greenlighted the construction of that shameful wall...., so what? I don't think a good decision compensates all the others and crimes he did...


It's fun seeing all those "when Hamas recognizes the State of Israel, negotiations would be possible" the POL did that...., but then some killed Isaac Rabin....

Israel had the best opportunity to end this back then, but they fuck it up, so know that bunch of zealots have the power and the peace is far far away....

So a single Jewish zealot kills Rabin and it's the fault of the entire state of Israel, but when a few separatist Hamas zealots fire rockets into Israel to provoke a disproportionate response, Palestinians are not to blame?

The real issue are the hard-liners on both sides. Both are forcing disproportionate violence from the other side to perpetuate the conflict. These are the ones who aren't interested in peace. Until both factions can control (or subjugate) the extremists there won't be peace.

 

[otake]

Israel has become a military state that relies on the crutch of America and residual sympathy for the holocaust to do whatever the hell it wants. It's fucking despicable.

Ad their enemy is a terrorist state. Seems like a fucked up situation from every angle.

 

[Walshicus]

Grow up. Are you really surprised that the stronger culture is consuming the weaker? It's Darwinism. History is filled with examples of this. Do you think Islamic Palestine will exist in 200 years?

Probably will be, since luckily Jews have fewer kids than Palestinians. It's going to be a major eye opener for many when the Israeli establishment is forced to decide whether or not it can accept the possibility of ethnically Palestinian government in fifty or so years. But that's fifty years from now, and the Israelis are sure doing their best to thin out the Palestinian numbers in the present.

It is amusing you talk about Israels "genocidal-tactics" when the Hamas literally want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. Which is laughable by the way.

Lots of people want that - but you're a fool if you don't think it's accepted as little more than rhetoric at this stage. The IRA [funded by Americans, mostly] wanted to disenfranchise, intimidate and kill Ulsterites... but honest and unbiased negotiation worked and now there's peace. Israel needs to accept Hamas as a fact of life - the political expression of the will of millions of Palestinians under their military occupation. Hamas isn't going away, just as no matter how much we may want it Israel is here to stay. But it is Hamas who in fighting their occupation have the moral high ground.

If Israel and Palestinians were rational and decent, Israel would offer to assimilate Palestine and Palestinians would agree. By a large margin Israel enjoys a higher living standard than Palestine. This would save decades of useless war. But no, ethnic and religious hatred prevent any common sense from either party.

Israel can't do that because Israel is a state founded on violent Zionism, and Palestine can't because it would justify their occupation and the suffering they've endured.

The weak will always get crushed, nature is shitty that way.

The point of civility is to stop that. That's why we have laws that stop the weak being victimised by the strong.

Fun Chart:
68% of Israeli deaths are civilian.
57% of known Palestinian deaths are civilian.
Palestinian deaths are 4.5 time greater than Israeli deaths.

So with Palestinians supposedly firing [pathetic little] rockets etc into Israeli civilian areas without discrimination, they're somehow pretty much dead even with the 'enlightened' Israelis with regards civ:com ratios over the last eight years. What's the ratio over the last month? 200:1??

 

[Nerevar]

So with Palestinians supposedly firing [pathetic little] rockets etc into Israeli civilian areas without discrimination, they're somehow pretty much dead even with the 'enlightened' Israelis with regards civ:com ratios over the last eight years. What's the ratio over the last month? 200:1??

I would say 50% civilian casualties against a terrorist organization that surrounds itself with women & children human shields to engender international sympathy is pretty good odds. Hamas recognizes they cannot fight a "fair fight" with Israel, so they stack the odds by attempting to hide within the civilian populace to prevent Israeli counterattacks. This allows them to claim moral superiority as well when the Israeli counter-attacks cause collateral damage; those intolerant "militant Zionist" Jews (as you so eloquently put it) are indiscriminately targeting civilians and must stop their aggression.

The situation isn't nearly as black and white as you like to think it is.

 

[GuessWho]

so according to some of you, Israel should just do nothing while everyday rockets keep getting fired into Israel? Where the fuck is the logic?
It's funny how no one seems to notice that NOBODY is helping the Palestinian people not even their own Arab nations. Hell every Arab nation hates each other. All they get from the Arab countries is money to fund Hamas.

 

[Talas]

so according to some of you, Israel should just do nothing while everyday rockets keep getting fired into Israel? Where the fuck is the logic?

So according to you, Palestinians should do nothing while their people starve to dead, die without medicine and are treated worse than animals? Where the fuck is the logic?

 

[Walshicus]

so according to some of you, Israel should just do nothing while everyday rockets keep getting fired into Israel? Where the fuck is the logic?

No, they should leave the occupied territories, break down their illegal settlements, end the blockade and come up with a reasonable two-state proposal that doesn't insult the other side. The rockets are little worse than fireworks. In seven years of their use 3,000 have been fired and just 15 people killed. And their effectiveness has been reduced over time anyway. They're a psychological weapon.

It's funny how no one seems to notice that NOBODY is helping the Palestinian people not even their own Arab nations.

There's an Israeli embargo. What else can they do? They've already been to war over it.

 

[Fio]

In humanitarian terms, Israel's actions have been worse than the words and actions of Hamas for some time now. It's not particularly close, either. Hamas may want to wipe out Israel, but Israel's actually doing it to the Palestinians. As vile as Hamas is, it says a lot about Israel that its actions are causing far more suffering and death than those of Hamas.

Knowing that Hamas wants to destroy Israel and not any peace agreement, here is an honest question: If you were in charge of Israel, what would you do?

So with Palestinians supposedly firing [pathetic little] rockets etc into Israeli civilian areas without discrimination, they're somehow pretty much dead even with the 'enlightened' Israelis with regards civ:com ratios over the last eight years. What's the ratio over the last month? 200:1??

The difference is that Israel does as much as possible to protect their civilians from terrorist attacks, or do you think that these 300 rockets that hit Israel last week were intended to be just a fireworks show and not an action to kill some thousands of people?

 

[Walshicus]

Knowing that Hamas wants to destroy Israel and not any peace agreement,

You know that do you? Just as we all know the IRA will never stop fighting until Ireland was united eh? Oh wait! Rhetoric!

here is an honest question: If you were in charge of Israel, what would you do?

Leave Palestine and go home to wherever I came from.

 

[GuessWho]

So according to you, Palestinians should do nothing while their people starve to dead, die without medicine and are treated worse than animals? Where the fuck is the logic?

Hamas needs to give the money to the people and not keep it for themselves.

 

[phalestine]

Hamas needs to give the money to the people and not keep it for themselves.

What good is money when there is no food and medicine to buy?

 

[KimiNewt]

Leave Palestine and go home to wherever I came from.

Uhh.. do you really think it's feasible for 5 million people to "go back" to the country they, or maybe their grandparents or grand grandparents came from? When likely most of those people wont even be accepted into those country.
Even disregarding the hundred other blatantly stupid about that statement it's even impossible in the technical sense.
I'd love to live in your world for a day, the UK sending their navies all the way to Mediterranean for some measly largely ineffective blockade for no apparent reason, millions of people living their homes to go back to countries who don't want or acknowledge them.
Truly your responses to this barbaric activity of both sides must be quickly brought to the heads of all countries involved, I see no reason for them to doubt this is the straight way for peace.

 

[Walshicus]

Hamas needs to give the money to the people and not keep it for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Provision_of_social_welfare_and_education

 

[Walshicus]

Uhh.. do you really think it's feasible for 5 million people to "go back" to the country they, or maybe their grandparents or grand grandparents came from? When likely most of those people wont even be accepted into those country.

I don't know. I used the singular - I, not the plural - we.

I'd love to live in your world for a day, the UK sending their navies all the way to Mediterranean for some measly largely ineffective blockade for no apparent reason, millions of people living their homes to go back to countries who don't want or acknowledge them.

The blockade was a hypothetical thought-aloud wondering how the US would balance one alliance versus one lobby group. The second part wasn't something I said.

Truly your responses to this barbaric activity of both sides must be quickly brought to the heads of all countries involved, I see no reason for them to doubt this is the straight way for peace.

Come on, if you're going to use sarcasm at least do it right.

Peace will come when each side has what is theirs. Alas, so little of what Israel has is its own, and so small is there desire to actually sacrifice their spoils of war in the name of peace, that violence will continue until an outside power forces them.

 

[KimiNewt]

Peace will come when each side has what is theirs. Alas, so little of what Israel has is its own, and so small is there desire to actually sacrifice their spoils of war in the name of peace, that violence will continue until an outside power forces them.

What exactly do you think each side deserves and why?
In my point of view, each side claims to deserve shit because of history and religious attachment which is just plain bullshit.
The current situation is that they're both living there and none are leaving soon so they should both find a way to live there without killing eachother that's suitable for both of them, you can't expect Israel to give even 50% of their land, that's just not realistic.

 

[Fio]

You know that do you? Just as we all know the IRA will never stop fighting until Ireland was united eh? Oh wait! Rhetoric!

It blows my mind that you keep bringing this up. These are completely different conflicts from completely different times.

Leave Palestine and go home to wherever I came from.

I'll concede that you are just being ignorant and not cynic.
Hamas has no intention to stop their attacks until Israel is destroyed, that's is the official Hamas' word on the matter, this will not help in anything.

"that this did not mean recognising Israel, but he said: "We have offered a truce if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, a truce of 10 years as an alternative to recognition."

 

[kobashi100]

so according to some of you, Israel should just do nothing while everyday rockets keep getting fired into Israel? Where the fuck is the logic?
It's funny how no one seems to notice that NOBODY is helping the Palestinian people not even their own Arab nations. Hell every Arab nation hates each other. All they get from the Arab countries is money to fund Hamas.

Thats because we have a bunch of tyranical rulers who dont represent the masses. They care more about themsleves and pleasing the US. The Muslim/Arab world is moving more towards Islam. Its only a matter of time before we see big changes.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

so according to some of you, Israel should just do nothing while everyday rockets keep getting fired into Israel? Where the fuck is the logic?
It's funny how no one seems to notice that NOBODY is helping the Palestinian people not even their own Arab nations. Hell every Arab nation hates each other. All they get from the Arab countries is money to fund Hamas.

I'd like Israel to stop committing internationally recognized war crimes.

I'd like Israel to give Palestinians a path to citizenship. They will not because Israel is a racist and xenophobic nation.

 

[Zapages]

Thats because we have a bunch of tyranical rulers who dont represent the masses. They care more about themsleves and pleasing the US. The Muslim/Arab world is moving more towards Islam. Its only a matter of time before we see big changes.

viva la revolution!!! Hopefully this time its within aka Iran instead of USA bringing the revolution... Because we know how great the Iraq and Afghanistan venture is going.

 

[kobashi100]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/20081228104532851171.html

 

[eznark]

I'd like Israel to stop committing internationally recognized war crimes.

I'd like Israel to give Palestinians a path to citizenship. They will not because Israel is a racist and xenophobic nation.

Do you think Israel recognizing Palestine as a state will stop the attacks?

 

[KevinRo]

Seriously though, fighting has been going on for hundreds of years in that part of the world. Fighting and war is resorted to way too fast but it's what they do best. If you honestly blame one side for the problem in the Middle East than you are retarded. Both sides needs to compromise, until then good luck killing eachother slowly.

On another note, I thought this was interesting:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...layer&cid=1194419829128&videoId=1230456496945

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Depends on the terms. Are there checkpoints? Is there water? Do they have access to Jerusalem?

I don't think a two state solution will work because of the crazies on both sides.

 

[kobashi100]

Depends on the terms. Are there checkpoints? Is there water? Do they have access to Jerusalem?

I don't think a two state solution will work because of the crazies on both sides.

one state is the only viable option.

 

[Fio]

On another note, I thought this was interesting:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...layer&cid=1194419829128&videoId=1230456496945

Really interesting.

 

[Talas]

Do you think Israel recognizing Palestine as a state will stop the attacks?

No, but maybe they will if they recognize palestinians as human beings.

 

[Zapages]

one state is the only viable option.

ok let's rename Israel into Palestine.

have bi-cabinet made up of 50% Palestinians and 50% Israeli....

Yeah right... That's not going to work... Both sides are too hard headed right now to have any resolution.


Israel should have never have been created after WW II... Its all Britain's fault as well. :|

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

How about instead of 50/50 they have elections?

 

[HnstMnst]

.

 

[kobashi100]

ok let's rename Israel into Palestine.

have bi-cabinet made up of 50% Palestinians and 50% Israeli....

Yeah right... That's not going to work... Both sides are too hard headed right now to have any resolution.


Israel should have never have been created after WW II... Its all Britain's fault as well. :|

I no supporter of Israel, I dont believe Israel has any right to exist. My idea of one state is an Islamic state in which Jews will be welcome to stay if they choose to. The actual state of israel will no longer exist though.

Hizbullah Vows to Open Second Front in Gaza Conflict
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129068

 

[ForzaItalia]

I say give both sides the same weapons and let them fight.

 

[gutter_trash]

US and the UK should stop supplying Israel weapons and let them fight on equal footing.

Allot of people here who are saying "survival of the fittest" are surely overlooking where Israel gets their weapons from....
without the US & UK, there would be NO Israel

 

[akenatone]

a country with nuclear capabilities should give them an ultimatum. they have six months to come up with a way to end civilian deaths. or said country will nuke the fucking place.
i dont care what your god says, there is no justifications to what is going on.

the so called muslim hamas are fucking monsters for killing civilians. and the jews are the biggest hypocrites, they cry all the time about the holocaust and then turn around and treat another group of people like animals. both leading regimes deserve nothing but being thrown into a concentration camp for some soul searching.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

So a single Jewish zealot kills Rabin and it's the fault of the entire state of Israel, but when a few separatist Hamas zealots fire rockets into Israel to provoke a disproportionate response, Palestinians are not to blame?

The real issue are the hard-liners on both sides. Both are forcing disproportionate violence from the other side to perpetuate the conflict. These are the ones who aren't interested in peace. Until both factions can control (or subjugate) the extremists there won't be peace.

I'm not talking only about Issac Rabin assasination, Sharon did too something stupid and provoked the Second Intifada, in already really delicated situation in the negotiations...

The real question is, why the Palestinians choosed zealots as governants? apart from the POL mistakes, Israel is to blame too for increasing his questionable methods, they increased the hate that poor people have, so they choosed those violents motherfuckers.

Now everyone is paying the consequences, so yes, if those guys can attack Israel freely and with the support of great part of the poblation is because of Israel themshelves, and I'm thinking if it's what Israel is looking for, so one day they can attack at full force.

 

[gutter_trash]

corruption is the answer to your question, they voted for Hamas because Fatah got their heads too far in their own comfort with corruption

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

Knowing that Hamas wants to destroy Israel and not any peace agreement, here is an honest question: If you were in charge of Israel, what would you do?

Make enough concessions to marginalize Hamas.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

corruption is the answer to your question, they voted for Hamas because Fatah got their heads too far in their own comfort with corruption

You don't choose a bunch of assasins who probably will bring you more violence and deaths only because the other party was a corrupted mess. Israel increasing his bad methods and actitude is to blame too.

 

[Cooter]

This thread is what's wrong with humans. You have people justifying the targeting of civilians and others so focused on getting rid of them that any amount of death is worth it in their eyes.

I will say that Hamas supporters in this thread scare me with what they seem capable of.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Make enough concessions to marginalize Hamas.

Appeasement worked so well for Neville Chamberlain.

 

[xbhaskarx]

AP:

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Israeli warplanes rained more than 100 tons of bombs on security sites in Hamas-ruled Gaza Saturday and early Sunday, killing at least 230 people in one of the Mideast conflict's bloodiest assaults in decades. The government said the open-ended campaign was aimed at stopping rocket attacks that have traumatized southern Israel.

Most of the casualties were security forces, but Palestinian officials said at least 15 civilians were among the dead.

So far:
At least 230 people dead
At least 15 civilians among the dead

15 / 230 = .065

If the Israelis are targeting civilians, they're doing a really bad job.

 

[Walshicus]

Appeasement worked so well for Neville Chamberlain.

Adolf Hitler invaded the lands of others. Hamas are fighting for their own. The Irish peace process is the better analogy.

 

[gutter_trash]

You don't choose a bunch of assasins who probably will bring you more violence and deaths only because the other party was a corrupted mess. Israel increasing his bad methods and actitude is to blame too.

i m not deffending them, i am just telling u what was their motivation for voting that way.
I am sitting in my cozzy condo, I have no experience with these types of turmoil

this is Bush's fault anyway, he encouraged free elections... another Bush failure thinking he can democratize the M.E.