I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand the cries about this. It's skins. Optional cosmetics with no impact on gameplay. Other games, many of them, have straight up pay to win, sometimes mandatory; and Blizz gets heat? Don't get it.
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Overwatch loot box changes detailed (way less dupes), highlight changes explained
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand the cries about this. It's skins. Optional cosmetics with no impact on gameplay. Other games, many of them, have straight up pay to win, sometimes mandatory; and Blizz gets heat? Don't get it.
The events for Halloween and Winter had noticeably better drop rates. Anything after that was a mess considering the amount of taunts and legendaries they keep adding.
Consider the following:
The weird manipulation part is the important thing that people need to consider.
Yes they're just cosmetics and they don't really matter, yes loot boxes are free and they come often enough that you don't really need to buy them... but, there are people who have gambling addiction problems, that's a fact. No, it's not blizzards job to take care of these people, and yes these people should be trying to get help on their own.... but, blizzard doesn't need to take advantage of people who have addiction problems, they could just choose not to be manipulating. they have plenty of money, they can do loot boxes better, it's about time they've moved forward on this.
Like how disgusting would it be if Marlboro cigarettes had codes for a free loot box in every pack? That would be fucked up. Theres no need to take advantage of people's addiction problems.... and the thing is, up until now they're doing it on purpose or at least willfully ignoring how shitty it is. You know that they see specific users spending life impacting amounts of money on loot boxes. It's not like they didn't know what was happening.
Just like people don't need to buy loot boxes, blizzard doesn't need to set them up in a way that takes advantage of people, even if it's just a small population of people
Because Overwatch rules and it's nice to get cool skins for heroes you love. The way it was before kind of sucked and made me not even care about lootboxes because it was always just 3 dupes and a voice line. Plus you could drop a couple hundred on lootboxes and still not get the things you wanted because of all the dupes.
Lets just get rid of casinos while we're at it because people can't control spending their money. Lets just stop making fast food restaurants because people eat more than their calorie intake and have a food addiction.. all of these problems could be fixed if people took the time and the right steps towards fixing it rather than making it worse. Gambling addiction is REAL but it can be fixed. Either way, glad these loot box changes are going through.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Duplicates is my biggest gripe with Lootboxes...especially when you get so many Dupes when u finally get a Gold item.
You're absolutely right. Those business exist and they have a right to exist. Blizzard absolutely has the right to be super manipulative with their gatcha systems..... but they don't have to be. They choose to be. Wouldn't it be nice if they chose not be like a casino or a junk food company?
That's all I'm saying. They can choose to be better. It's not like manipulation is their business model. They could just continue to make good games with out trying to create/capture addicts. It's not necessary.
Wow and overwatch are great games, and sure people get addicted to great games.... but then they also just put a straight up slot machine into this one... because slot machines are fun games too? Because it's a novel way to unlock cosmetics? it's fun to open them?... cuz that little part of you're brain enjoys hitting jackpots. Because maybe somebody will pay 99 cents to open another one... what if they adjust the odds to make it more likely that some one would pay to open another one? What if they really refined the odds and rewards to maximize how much some people would really really want to open another one? Where does it end? At what point does it cross the line from a monetization scheme to a manipulative device designed to get people to pump money into it? And at what point does it make sense to ask if it's necessary?
It's like that old design doc for the Kinect McDonald's commercial. Not sure if you're familiar, but the idea was that if you had a Kinect hooked up and an advertisement for McDonald's came on the TiVo or whatever, you could stand up from your couch and say McDonald's out loud to make the advertisement end early. Is it legal? Probably. Would it be effective? Probably, at least more effective then not making people say the brand name out loud.... would it make a bunch of money, probably. but there's a line there... like how manipulative do you need to be? Why should Microsoft Kinect let that be a thing? Just for the money? Why should blizzard continue to let their loot boxes manipulate addicts? Just so they can make a bunch of money? Don't they already make a bunch of money? Is it worth it to knowingly take advantage of people for extra money? Everyone will have their own answer.
I'm sure everyone remembers stories about MMO addiction in the early years of EQ & WoW. Blizzard should just stop making games, they're just too addicting!
And lose out on a shit ton of money from people willing to buy the crates outright? LOL
Yes it's nice, but it's not needed. It's a bonus. And you really want skin X? Save up and buy skin X. No need to buy skin A, B, C, D, E, F
That's a argument that doesn't really work. No matter what you do, there will always be people in the world with some sort of addition to something that you will affect. Remove lootboxes and put all skins for sale, now you are affecting compulsive shoppers and completionists that feel the need to buy every single one.
Real life lootboxes already exist, just look at every trading card game that has ever existed. And those have actual impact on said game, they are not cosmetic.
Diablohead
Member
Those will already be rolled so don't sit on them.
Not that easy for event skins where they cost 3k credits and you barely get anything from the dupes. These changes were needed.
RedlineRonin
Member
Can't watch atm. Was this in yesterday's update, or this will be added in a future patch?
this.. too god damn late blizzard...
Leafhopper
Banned
And they still won't give a consistent coin drop.
You got lucky!
AllBusinessJr
Member
Sounds like they're selling fewer loot boxes and it was finally time for something to give.
Only in PTR atm.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Nice update
RedlineRonin
Member
Vital Tundra
Member
The amount of dupes I got this past event was absurd, and people who spent 50 plus dollarso n boxes should have gotten far more of the event skins but because of the absurd dupe probability many didnt get even half. Its a problem and its nice they addressed it.
the "30 million players" figure they tout is smoke and mirrors
it's not like the game is doing poorly, but the recent few weeks has probably been the worst period for them as far as internet sentiment goes
-"anniversary event" just being a bunch of expensive event-exclusive cosmetics (emotes that could have been in the non-event loot table; every skin being legendary)
-preponderance of OTPs as a result of figuring out that the MMR system is gameable
-esports ventures being a joke
-PUBG crushing Overwatch on Twitch since release
the double XP weekend was the first time they've done anything of the sort, so it's hard to read it as anything other than a reaction to the negativity about the anniversary event, but I think they shot themselves in the foot with it too; it was just a bandaid for the problem of their loot box system being awful and incentivizing grinding for a whole weekend probably accentuated how bad it was and burned people out on playing
Trading card game booster packs do the same thing though... you know they do the market research to determine how many cards in a pack and rarity/duplicate occurrence rates. I'm not sure what your point is with that part. Just because they already exist in a physical medium doesn't change the ethical questions.
Having an open market place set up is different because the lack of the random draw/jackpot dopamine release. I don't really know anything about it, but I'd wager to guess that compulsive shopping is not as common or destructive as gambling addiction. And in a open shop style store they can adjust the prices independently and, in my opinion, doesn't really cross into gross manipulation until they're purposefully pricing individual items to target compulsive shoppers and the like.
The thing about these conversations is that they're all moot. Because 1. they're already changing it to be less manipulative and 2. there's already other less manipulative loot box models out there. There's proven ways to monetize a game without taking major advantage of whales (read addicts).
To say it doesn't matter what you do because there's always going to be people who suffer from addiction is disengenius, because it's not like you have to cure addiction. You just need to decide what to do when you find out your customers may be unhealthily addicted to your thing. You don't have to take advantage of people just because you can. You just have to make a choice. I think they're making the right choice here. And honestly it's probably still profit motivated anyway.
Diprosalic
Banned
will this apply to unopened boxes? i have hundreds saved up.
There's no point in hoarding boxes. The items are generated when you get the box, not when you open them.
HoodWinked
Member
probably not since the boxes are rolled when you get them.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745045941?page=1#post-7
This is correct. What you get is already in the box.
KirbKirb30
Member
Had to retire from Overwatch after the Anniversary event. I realized I stopped playing for the fun of the game and was just playing for loot boxes, which would give dupe after dupe and I would sink time and money into a drain of nothingness.
This change makes me want to come back already. Damnit, Blizzard, you temptress, you.
This change makes me want to come back already. Damnit, Blizzard, you temptress, you.
Tertullian
Member
When does this actually go live outside the PTR? Might play some more Overwatch soon but I'm not gonna bother until this is in effect.
Usually PTR stays up for about 2 weeks then it goes live.
I'm expecting a new D.Va statue to go with the previously released Widowmaker, Reaper, & Tracer statues that were available, as the voice actress had shut down the idea multiple times.
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
Nah, I averaged my 3 dupes and 1 new spray or voice line throughout the event and have been back to 4 dupes per box since. I've played the game a ridiculous amount and still have plenty to unlock because of the dupe situation. If "active for a while" means since sometime today... maybe.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Do we know when this is coming to consoles?
Jaguar Victory
Member
I'm running out of base skins and emotes to buy. Getting all dupe loot boxes all the time. I'm glad for the change.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Good.
Calisupra2nr
Neo Member
Will this apply to loot boxes we currently may have saved up? Don't know the precedent here... I have like 15 loot boxes I have never opened.
Loot is already generated when you get them not when you open them.