is this analysis deep or broad? or neither?
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Overwatch - Review Thread
- Thread starter orthodoxy1095
- Start date
is this analysis deep or broad? or neither?
Yeah, I get that the blizzard defense force is strong and united.
manfestival
Member
Played the beta and found it sufficiently entertaining. Needs more content to be a true savior of gaming
DirtyLarry
Member
Counter Strike says hello. Pretty much the same Game Mode for how many years and counting now?Calling now that this will be one of the most overrated games ever
Titanfall had an 86 average review score. Overwatch will score higher for its IP and accessibility ("my first competitive shooter"). But it'll falter for the same reasons as Titanfall: insufficient depth in gameplay and progression/customization. Once the honeymoon phase wanes, I think you'll find that the games start to become repetitive and same-y. The lack of game modes really drives this feeling home: if you've played any competitive shooter, the lack of variety will get you very quickly.
Team Fortress 2 is another great comparison point. What is the killer Overwatch innovation that's going to cause it to be 10x the size of TF2? So far, seems very similar with some incremental improvements and some losses, but nothing revolutionary. Though I agree with the claim that Blizzard could add content to get it to that level. But then again... TF2 is also free to play. Overwatch is (strangely) a $40+ boxed product.
Congratz to Blizzard either way though. So happy to see a new and well-executed IP. The "best game ever" sentiment may be unwarranted but it's a great foundation for the future of the IP.
Game Modes do not make the game. Gameplay does (for starters). Also the truth of the matter is the games that do have a ton of game modes, most players wind up gravitating towards one or two and focus on them.
So yeah, I respectfully disagree with this assessment.
And FTR, this is the very first Blizzard game I have ever played myself. I do not care that it is Blizzard. I care that it is a damn good game.
Goldfishking
Member
Thanks.
Jeez this thread is toxic. I never said anything about depth, hell i have 200 hours in titanfall I don't need the game to have depth to have fun.
I just wanted to know the differences between the beta and the full game since I started to fall off the beta after a while but I was still playing it to the end.
Im going back to Total warhammer
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Make an argument instead of attacking strawmen.
CountAntonius
Member
I'm actually more of a valve fanboy. Never been a Blizzard fan but this game is legitimately great. It doesn't need a defense force.
Future PhaZe
Member
can't wait until more 10/10 reviews spring up
Wut
20 minutes for the servers starting working is not a "problem at launch" in the slightest. Holy mother of hyperbole.
Interfectum
Member
Ahh so you have no real argument other than "buu buu defense force." Cool.
LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
How are you supposed to learn them from playing the game? I played the beta enough to know that it wasn't overtly obvious to me at least who was good against who. I jumped around to different characters and got frustrated because I couldn't really find anyone who clicked with me. The game has roughly a triple skill curve of being able to play with any of the given characters, understanding which characters work well with/against other characters, and also putting together a full team.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but this game just feels so layered that I don't even know where one would start understanding the character interactions since there didn't seem to be much in the way of guides or in-game tutorials on counters.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I think this is where the philosophical divide is coming from. The indivual characters themselves feel very simplistic with the range of options one character can do compare to your average decently leveled Call of Duty character, or the player abilities and weapons you have to be good with in Halo 5. Its streamlined so much, that many characters dont even need great aim, which is usually the main determination for skill in first person shooters. Now I know TF2 was similarly like this in its initial state, but its a bunch things like how there isnt ammo to worry about, or how Junkrat launching pad doesnt have nearly the amount of nuance or air control or distance the Demoman's sticky launch has.
Now I think that's smart, having very strict limits on what any character can possibly do, because it promotes character swapping for hard counters and you dont want a lot of nuance in individual characters cuz in a few years there's gonna be like 50 of these guys all running around. This puts a bigger onus of the skill/depth on the game on team comp and match-up knowledge, rather then who has the best aim, who can control and properly utilize the power weapons on the map, who has the best utilization of the inherent movement options like Gears of War wallbouncing or the amount of air control/speed TF2 Scouts have. Its all very clear, very streamlined, very simple, for maximum readability and accessibility.
And I get that, and thats smart, but it does mark a change in how we think about skill and depth in multiplayer games.
Breadth != depth. Overwatch a great initial breadth with a great cast of characters and maps. But that doesn't mean it's a deep game.
With CS:GO, every weapon has a unique spray pattern. Every map has unique communication mechanics. What equipment to buy is always a key decision. Noise/footsteps also add a ton of depth. Grenade placement, etc. Even the objectives have a ton of depth: where you plant the bomb changes your strategy. And all of this is without even touching the depth in teamplay (which Overwatch might have, but certainly not in solo queue right now).
Put another way, with Overwatch, there are generally only 2-3 mechanics you can learn, use, and master at any one time. That's lack of gameplay depth - there just aren't that many decisions you can make in the moment-to-moment action.
??? the servers went up 17 minutes late but once they were up queue times were pretty good and i was in groups of 2-5 all night. i mean if you didn't preload the game you would have been stuck with the tutorial until it downloaded and installed the rest of it, but that's not the servers fault. I understand value being a concern. $60 is not always cheap. I see it as i'm paying $60 for a game where the season pass is included and i enjoyed the beta enough that i felt $60 was a fair price for what i'm getting.
manfestival
Member
Mei is not Bae. Stop it people. Stop it right now!
but it's my homepage ;(
Um I know of 0 people who had the issues you are stating at launch. We were up and going within 20 minutes of launch and had 0 issues all night.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
It's a fun romp every now and again but I don't see myself sinking more than 20 hours into this by year end.
Because it's perfect it literally plays perfectly.
Plus sw battlefronts multiplayer was not exactly what people. Battlefront is a letdown to fans for so many reasons (older fans *)
Also its a blizzard game. And blizzard gets a free pass because their blizzard.
I edited my post and it took me too long to do, reread it sorry.
EDIT: Adding here since I think it was dumb of me to edit the first one so much later:
You'll go from learning the basics of the characters (long range, short range, tanky, vulnerable, etc), to learning basic counter strategies based on those criteria, to learning how the characters actually are most effective at moving around the map and the objective (IE learning that tracer or reaper is going to be trying to flank you when you're sniping) to learning how to counter THAT play, maybe getting shut down, hero switching to counter them countering you, etc. Really high level play involves a lot of prediction as well as just shooting guns at people. You get to the point of "Ok reaper can approach me from these two areas, one of them is close enough that I'll hear him teleporting if he tries it, so I just need to keep an eye out for the other one OR the spots he could teleport to the other one from, maybe I'll drop a venom mine there to let me know if he gets in behind me, meanwhile I'm covering the doorway the other team is running in from with my sniper rifle, because their zenyatta just died 15 seconds ago and he should be running in, I can get him with even a body shot because his health is so low, and oh shit I hear reaper, start backing up, lure him around the corner onto his mine and she uses shift to get rid of the debuff, now I know he's got 12 seconds of vulnerability so I grapple away from his shotguns and scope in to try and get him. Oh he's running to the left, I know there's a health pack around the bottom floor there, so I position to scope in by the health pack, and boom headshot"
Like, there's no way you could possibly know any of that stuff without playing the game a fair bit. That is depth, but it all starts at the basic "Hey, Reaper is a flanker with shotguns".
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I think some people have some magic formula in their mind where more modes = worth more.
But if you don't use those modes, or like those modes, then how are those modes worth anything?
And if a game has only one mode but you love it and play it all the time, then how is that not good value for money?
I mean, I'm a Musou fan and half the fun in those games is the enormous variety of characters and weapon types that you can play with, so a game that is even more varied is something I have a hard time getting angry at.
But if you don't use those modes, or like those modes, then how are those modes worth anything?
And if a game has only one mode but you love it and play it all the time, then how is that not good value for money?
I mean, I'm a Musou fan and half the fun in those games is the enormous variety of characters and weapon types that you can play with, so a game that is even more varied is something I have a hard time getting angry at.
Blizzard doesn't innovate. They perfect.
Leafhopper
Banned
Really wish people would get over the fact that it's an online shooter.
Blizzard did a good job.
10/10 doesn't mean Innovation.
Look at Super Mario Galaxy 2 by IGN. They made Galaxy 1 but, better.
Blizzard did a good job.
10/10 doesn't mean Innovation.
Look at Super Mario Galaxy 2 by IGN. They made Galaxy 1 but, better.
Future PhaZe
Member
there are only 6 "classes" in chess with limited movesets
the game is absolutely terrible and lacks depth
the game is absolutely terrible and lacks depth
SmartWaffles
Member
Or, you just can't justify your opinion with either facts or enough reasoning.
Interfectum
Member
You could have used this exact same argument for MOBAs (vs RTS or MMO) years ago. Just because the heroes have stripped down mechanics doesn't mean the game lacks depth. How have you even played the game enough to argue about lack of depth?
Resident_UA
Member
Because it so polished. I had no interest in this game, but beta completely changed my mind. You can tell how much they invested into this game by how well it plays....
Not to mention there's only one map.
-MD-
Member
The interactions between different heroes/comps is what Overwatch is about.
The modes are secondary to the heroes. Also there are 3 modes, not 2.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
But there are so many skins!
GitarooMan
Member
The idea that the vague term "content" has become so important and such a point of contention is pretty weird to me. Isn't it more important how tight the gameplay is, how much attention to detail there is, the fundamentals of the design, etc. I can understand if a game gets repetitive because of lack of content bit that is a pretty tough argument here IMO die to the variety of heroes and team comps creating tons of possibilties of skills to work on.
That was enough to tell me you don't actually have the game. Do you?
Game worked perfectly 15 mins after launch
ethomaz
Banned
Free pass for what? What are the gaming issues for you?
BTW there is no balance problems lol
These games you cited had tons of issues where Overwatch does shine.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Probably not because it isn't something the vast majority of people will even know exists, including the reviewers.
WickedLaharl
Member
If you think there are only 2-3 mechanics to learn you're missing everything. You have the ability to learn not just how to use but how to master every single ability on your character, how quickly they cooldown, how quickly they charge, etc, but also need to understand every other character in the game's abilities pretty intrinsicly to truly master it, and how they all interact with each other, on top of the maps (Which are significantly more complex than you might initially think due to the breadth of movement options possible in the game, unlike something like CS GO). As soemone else said, you could literally claim the same thing about MOBAs and it doesn't make it true there either. "Oh, my dude has 4 buttons and I can buy some shit. simple game"
CountAntonius
Member
In competitive counter strike you use the AK the M4 or the AWP, flashes and nades. That game is about strategy, aim and recoil control and map knowledge /awareness.
Overwatch has a ton of depth with the maps verticality and different characters movement abilities. Comboing skills and ult efficiently and with certain classes aim absolutely matters.
They are both very deep games in different ways but I'm not sure they should even be compared. I'm not understanding how you get 2-3 mechanics from overwatch at all. Picking, counterpicking, rushing with a unique lineup to push through a unique defense. It changes everytime depending on who people use and what map they have and how they choose to defend it.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
So if I was to outline the stuff that I feel would take the sheen off this games perception as perfect it would be the following:
-Still too much focus and reward for kills in objective games. Another play of the match where its Bastion mowing down 5 people shows a flaw there.
-Complete lack of context to anything going on. You get a couple of character activated interaction lines in the countdown and thats it. Theres no attempt to make one side the villains and one side the heroes in regard to the world of Overwatch. The superhero basis is completely irrelevant for the actual game and causes a weird rift between it and the CGI episodes.
-A loot system that is just frustratingly sparse and scattershot. Character recolour shades as "loot" is content starved tier, and worse still you're getting shit for characters you may simply never want to play. Unlockable sprays is insulting.
-Discovering the game had a thoroughly shit tick rate explained some of the stuff I was frowning at in the beta.
-The incredibly uncreative 'training mode'. The game just communicates so often there was supposed to be some sort of campaign, but you're never gonna get it because that MMO was aborted.
We'll see where the game goes as a service over the year, but "can't it just be about the solid mechanics" feels like a very sudden 'this game only' affair due to its heritage.
-Still too much focus and reward for kills in objective games. Another play of the match where its Bastion mowing down 5 people shows a flaw there.
-Complete lack of context to anything going on. You get a couple of character activated interaction lines in the countdown and thats it. Theres no attempt to make one side the villains and one side the heroes in regard to the world of Overwatch. The superhero basis is completely irrelevant for the actual game and causes a weird rift between it and the CGI episodes.
-A loot system that is just frustratingly sparse and scattershot. Character recolour shades as "loot" is content starved tier, and worse still you're getting shit for characters you may simply never want to play. Unlockable sprays is insulting.
-Discovering the game had a thoroughly shit tick rate explained some of the stuff I was frowning at in the beta.
-The incredibly uncreative 'training mode'. The game just communicates so often there was supposed to be some sort of campaign, but you're never gonna get it because that MMO was aborted.
We'll see where the game goes as a service over the year, but "can't it just be about the solid mechanics" feels like a very sudden 'this game only' affair due to its heritage.
-MD-
Member
There are some but the level of whining I'm seeing about this game getting a "free pass" is unreal.
$40 was a steal for this game, I already have 50 hours played.
Future PhaZe
Member
Don't do this. Unless you think TF2 is a MOBA.