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Pachter blames PS3 for GTA IV delay

Analyst questions Rockstar's capability

No doubt making himself popular with Sony, Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter has stated that he believes the complexity of development for the PS3 platform has resulted in the delay of Grand Theft Auto IV from October 2007 until Q2 2008.

Pachter believes publisher Rockstar have a contractual obligation to Sony, which means the Xbox 360 cannot get GTA IV before the PS3, hence why both versions of the title have been delayed despite the development issues primarily surrounding the PS3.

"We think it is likely that the Rockstar team had difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and failed to recognise how far away from completion the game truly was until recently," Pachter states.

"We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to Sony that it would not favour competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox 360 version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version, and believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of the Xbox 360 version."

Pachter hints that Take-Two shareholders are unlikely to be greatly pleased by this delay, hinting that procedural issues at the firm may be partly to blame for this slippage.

"While the delay of GTA IV was clearly not the fault of new management, we believe that it should have been better understood several months ago, and should have been communicated to investors much earlier than today," Pachter comments.

"The company has begun an initiative to improve the green light process for new projects, but given the delays of Manhunt and GTA, its process for monitoring projects under development appears to be a failure."

http://play.tm/story/12237
 
I have little doubt that the PS3 edition is lagging behind but thats certainly not the only problem with GTA4 develoment.

All previews so far have made it seem like its far from finished at all, even on 360.
 
inthezone said:
I have little doubt that the PS3 edition is lagging behind but thats certainly not the only problem with GTA4 develoment.

All previews so far have made it seem like its far from finished at all, even on 360.

It'd be more polished if it was exclusively on one console. Only one platform to focus on instead of two.
 
4z8zjo9.jpg
 
A week ago, Rockstar admitted the PS3 version is "a week or two" behind.

A 6-month delay doesn't account for that.

The game simply isn't finished. No other conspiracy exists.
 
Wario64 said:
I believe this news. Mods, please sticky this thread.
I believe this post. Mods, please listen to this man.

So is Pachter the official color commentator for the video game industry?
 
I am just wondering if the people that always come in to threads with his name to say "He is so full of shit" will be appearing today.
 
Y2Kev said:
Prolly. But the 360 version prolly needed some work too. Prolly.

The word is probably. Christ.

I'm inclined to believe Pachter on this. Interesting that numerous analysts are calling this as horrible for Sony and not-so-bad for Microsoft. I would think at least some consideration would be given to the fact that Sony now has an exceptional Spring '08 lineup.
 
Considering the state of the 360 demo, I'd imagine they are having issues with both platforms.
 
Ah well, if this is true, and it could well be, at least the 360 version is getting a bit more polish. I'll take my distant buildings with more than 5 brown polygons please R*.
 
MattKeil said:
The word is probably. I would think at least some consideration would be given to the fact that Sony now has an exceptional Spring '08 lineup.


The SDF is going to tear me apart but......that could all be moot IF Sony has a terrible Holiday and MS has a kickass one.
 
MattKeil said:
The word is probably. Christ.

I'm inclined to believe Pachter on this. Interesting that numerous analysts are calling this as horrible for Sony and not-so-bad for Microsoft. I would think at least some consideration would be given to the fact that Sony now has an exceptional Spring '08 lineup.

Is it really? All this time I've been living a lie thinking it was "prolly?" Why did no English teacher or peer editor tell me this?

Oh, I was prolly doing it intentionally.
 
GhaleonEB said:
The Piano is a great movie - in my personal top 10. Excellent choice!

Also: this won't end well.
That's also a massive picture and should be edited. That TV remote looks pretty janky as well.
 
dark10x said:
Considering the state of the 360 demo, I'd imagine they are having issues with both platforms.
Honest question here, I don't follow system wars bullshit; was the 360 version the only one shown or did they ever show off the PS3 build?
 
"We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to Sony

This just sound ridiculous. Or Take2 is truly retarded.

We'd heard rumblings of development problems on the game--more specifically, that Microsoft had sent a SWAT team of developers to assist Rockstar in getting the game shipped on time, much as it did last year for Gears of War--and recent previews from the enthusiast press pointed out significant problems with the game's framerate.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/leve...-theft-auto-iv-delayed-until-spring-2008.aspx
 
MattKeil said:
The word is probably. Christ.

I'm inclined to believe Pachter on this. Interesting that numerous analysts are calling this as horrible for Sony and not-so-bad for Microsoft. I would think at least some consideration would be given to the fact that Sony now has an exceptional Spring '08 lineup.

MGS4 followed by GTA4 followed by Killzone 2 followed by GT5 followed by a price drop = PS3 rises to heaven
 
Pachter is probably right. Grand Theft Auto is always exclusive to one console and then makes the rounds after a few months. Rockstar was probably overwhelmed with having to bring such a complex game to two very different consoles in such a short period of time. Even though I'm getting the X360 version, I have no problem waiting until the game is perfect on both consoles.
 
TekunoRobby said:
Honest question here, I don't follow the system wars bullshit; was the 360 version the only one shown or did they ever show off the PS3 build?
They have not shown off the PS3 version (as far as I know), which does indeed raise some doubt, but they have stated that the PS3 build was very near the 360 build (though the 360 build was the more advanced of the two). It's never been suggested that they were specifically struggling with PS3 alone.

(Borrowing from the Standard "LAIR" defense)..."THE 360 DEMO WASN'T OPTIMIZED YET!
Err, no shit. The game is far from optimized. Though, based on their track record, I'm not expecting a great framerate in the end...
 
n'god said some interesting stuff as well

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/leve...ation-on-the-factors-behind-gta-iv-delay.aspx
During a late afternoon conference call on Thursday for analysts and media, Take-Two chairman Strauss Zelnick said that he didn't see much benefit in discussing the specific technical issues that forced he and Rockstar to delay Grand Theft Auto IV until Spring 2008, and he remained true to his word. But that doesn't mean that the staff of Level Up can't engage in some informed speculation about what may have taken place.

Until earlier this week, when a source informed us that Microsoft had sent a shock team of engineers to help Rockstar complete the game, much of the gossip surrounding problems with GTA IV centered around the Playstation 3 version. Rockstar has been pretty quiet about that SKU; the game has only been demonstrated to media running on the Xbox 360; the GTA IV trailer wasn't even shown during Sony's E3 press conference, ostensibly because Rockstar never responded to requests for footage from Sony PR. Throw that into the mix with all of the non-Rockstar scuttlebutt--several developers have said that it's difficult to develop for PS3; porting from Xbox 360 to PS3 is said to be harder than the other way around; yet many developers are choosing to lead on Xbox 360 because of its larger installed base, resulting in PS3 versions of games shipping weeks after the Xbox 360 SKU has already gone out the door--and the stage was set for an October surprise: GTA IV becoming a de facto Xbox 360 exclusive. Instead, both versions have been pushed back to next year. What happened?

We believe that Rockstar is having difficulty with both versions of the game, not just the PS3. GTA IV executive Sam Houser basically said as much in the press release, "The game is huge and is pushing the hardware platforms to their absolute limits. The top engineers from Sony and Microsoft are working closely with the team in Edinburgh right now, helping us to fully leverage the power of both platforms." That was echoed by Zelnick on the conference call, who said, " There are technical challenges across the board on both PS3 and 360." If Rockstar could have completed the 360 version in time for its previously scheduled October release, it would have done so. Why? Because Take-Two definitely needs the revenue from what is by far its biggest franchise, and Microsoft desperately wanted to convert PlayStation 2 fans to Xbox 360 aficionados.

With a $50 million deal already in place for two downloadable follow-up episodes exclusive to the Xbox 360, it's likely that Microsoft and Take-Two/Rockstar also had a co-marketing arrangement in place, where Microsoft and Take-Two would spend an equal amount of money to promote GTA IV, in exchange for Microsoft getting to slap its logo at the end of all of those costly TV ads. In fact, it wouldn't surprise us if Rockstar and Take-Two had already all-but-delayed the PS3 version to triage the Xbox 360 version for this holiday, only to have their hands forced when, at yesterday's product review, it became clear to both sides that even the 360 version could not be completed this year to Rockstar's exacting standards.

How did Rockstar end up in this situation? First, each of the 3-D Grand Theft Auto games--GTA III, GTA Vice City, GTA San Andreas, GTA Liberty City Stories and GTA Vice City Stories--were initially developed for one platform at a time. Ditto for the original Manhunt. So Rockstar North has little experience with simultaneous development. Second, the console versions of GTA were developed on external middleware like Renderware, while GTA IV is being developed on Rockstar's own Rockstar Advanced Game Engine technology, aka RAGE. So while it's true that the company put RAGE through its paces for last year's Table Tennis, there's a big difference between two characters in a confined arena and a simulation of New York City filled with hundreds of people.

In short, it looks like the always-ambitious Rockstar simply bit off more than it could chew across the board; added to the challenge of developing for two powerhouse consoles simultaneously, the company finally had to admit defeat and ask for more time. And while this decision creates some short-term challenges for Take-Two and Microsoft, as gamers, we're happy that Houser is holding the line on the game's quality rather than pushing it out the door for the sake of the bottom line. Thankfully, for Rockstar, it's not all about the C.R.E.A.M.
 
dark10x said:
They have not shown off the PS3 version (as far as I know), which does indeed raise some doubt, but they have stated that the PS3 build was very near the 360 build (though the 360 build was the more advanced of the two). It's never been suggested that they were specifically struggling with PS3 alone.
Makes sense, thanks for the answer man.
 
IGN said:
...
running on 360 hardware
...
There are still truckloads of bugs to be worked out - the framerate is a little worrying, as is the pop-up. With just a few months of development time left, we're hoping what we were shown was just an early build; otherwise, Rockstar still has a lot of work to do in order to make the October release date.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/804/804228p1.html

But yeah... Blame the PS3. 360 development couldn't possibly be behind schedule
 
MechDX said:
The SDF is going to tear me apart but......that could all be moot WHEN Sony has a terrible Holiday and MS has a kickass one.

Fixed.

Anyone thinks a $499 or $599 console is going to sell because of HEAVENLY SWORD is fooling themselves. Even if HEAVENLY SWORD is a great game.
 
Barnolde said:
Cell is complex, 360 has no HDD.

Rockstar said this a while ago.

Now the real question is where's my Mafia 2?
You're right, it was stated in an interview that they were faces challenges on both machines.

As for Mafia 2, it WAS in the making (seriously) but has since been cancelled. Damn shame too as the original was incredible.
 
crazyscreenwriter said:
Fixed.

Anyone thinks a $499 or $599 console is going to sell because of HEAVENLY SWORD is fooling themselves. Even if HEAVENLY SWORD is a great game.

Anyone who thinks Heavenly Sword is all the PS3 has this fall is fooling themselves. But lets keep the System Wars out of this thread.
 
dark10x said:
Err, no shit. The game is far from optimized. Though, based on their track record, I'm not expecting a great framerate in the end...

Honestly I think R* just way over-promised and probably had no clue about the complexities of either system.
 
itsgreen said:
Good for pachter.

But who cares? I doubt it Pachter has more information than we do.

What the...? I'm sure he does. Analyst are usually privvy to behind the scenes information. That's how they formulate their opinions. Doesn't mean everything they say is right, but their analysis is usually grounded in fact rather than baseless speculation.
 
theBishop said:
Anyone who thinks Heavenly Sword is all the PS3 has this fall is fooling themselves. But lets keep the System Wars out of this thread.
why do you even bother replying to these people? i mean seriously
 
"We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to Sony that it would not favour competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox 360 version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version, and believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of the Xbox 360 version."

What, what.
 
It's just easier to blame the PS3. That's about all there is to it. =P

N'gai is more spot on with his assessment as it makes the most common sense. Two platforms, their own engine, ambitious = Delay.
 
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