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Pain & Gain is "just so wrong on every possible level"
- Thread starter Messofanego
- Start date
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This thread is quite the litmus test.
Anyone who thought this movie had a sense of humor doesn't deserve to experience actual wit and comedy in my opinion, because apparently defecation of this quality is "good enough". There's three stooges-esque slapstick, and then there's cutting people and roasting their fingerprints in a barbecue. If anyone actually roared in laughter at this movie, and didn't just chuckle here and there "Heh, the Rock said/wore something goofy, it's funny cause he's a big guy", then I think hope might be lost for them. If I wasn't so desensitized to the currency Bay trades in, watching Pain & Gain would have made me physically ill by the end of the second act.
The movie constantly reminds you that THIS IS A TRUE STORY as though that's meant to make the high jinks funnier because real people were that depraved and idiotic... when all it really does is remind you that Michael Bay doesn't possess an ounce of tact or subtlety.
The best dark comedies remind us of the real world because bad things happen, yet the characters have genuine pathos and say funny things, because in real life people can be funny in the midst of dark situations. They don't feel like brooding joyless worlds, yet they don't feel like cartoon worlds with the sharp edges rounded off, where people aren't allowed to be guileless (If you want to see how this works ideally, watch In Bruges). Ironically considering it's source material, Pain & Gain resembles nothing even close to real life, and it's painful attempts at humor reach the same lowest common denominator as these guys:
Anyone who thought this movie had a sense of humor doesn't deserve to experience actual wit and comedy in my opinion, because apparently defecation of this quality is "good enough". There's three stooges-esque slapstick, and then there's cutting people and roasting their fingerprints in a barbecue. If anyone actually roared in laughter at this movie, and didn't just chuckle here and there "Heh, the Rock said/wore something goofy, it's funny cause he's a big guy", then I think hope might be lost for them. If I wasn't so desensitized to the currency Bay trades in, watching Pain & Gain would have made me physically ill by the end of the second act.
The movie constantly reminds you that THIS IS A TRUE STORY as though that's meant to make the high jinks funnier because real people were that depraved and idiotic... when all it really does is remind you that Michael Bay doesn't possess an ounce of tact or subtlety.
The best dark comedies remind us of the real world because bad things happen, yet the characters have genuine pathos and say funny things, because in real life people can be funny in the midst of dark situations. They don't feel like brooding joyless worlds, yet they don't feel like cartoon worlds with the sharp edges rounded off, where people aren't allowed to be guileless (If you want to see how this works ideally, watch In Bruges). Ironically considering it's source material, Pain & Gain resembles nothing even close to real life, and it's painful attempts at humor reach the same lowest common denominator as these guys:
Guest12345678
Member
surprised that alot of people find this funny. I thought the jokes were pretty terrible and this is before i found out the true story.
I think people hammer on the "true story" "makes light of" angle too much. Karla whitewashed a woman who tortured and murdered teenagers. 30 Minutes or Less turned a just-as-horrible robbery plot into an even more absurd comedy.
Kadayi
Banned
Oh puhlease...
In Bruges spends a good scene or two laughing at a dwarf because he's a dwarf, and another scene or two making its comedy off Ralph Fiennes being a bit sweary. Check your humour thermometer before telling people theirs is off.
SJRB
Gold Member
I saw this for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. I'm extremely conflicted as to wether I liked it or not.
I mean, I can totally see where people come from when they say this movie is utter garbage. But I also understand the people who enjoyed it. It's a bizarre movie for sure which lends the humor from the absurd situations as opposed to actual proper comedy.
I really loved Mark Wahlberg and Rock in this, mad respect for how huge they both were. The Rock is always big, but Wahlberg dialed it up to 11. Dude is HUGE.
Also, the scene with the barbeque is GOLDEN.
I mean, I can totally see where people come from when they say this movie is utter garbage. But I also understand the people who enjoyed it. It's a bizarre movie for sure which lends the humor from the absurd situations as opposed to actual proper comedy.
I really loved Mark Wahlberg and Rock in this, mad respect for how huge they both were. The Rock is always big, but Wahlberg dialed it up to 11. Dude is HUGE.
Also, the scene with the barbeque is GOLDEN.
Marvel
could never
#Clanging & Banging.
Corpsepyre
Banned
This is the first Bay film I have enjoyed since The Rock. Some of the dialogues were hilarious.
Messofanego
Banned
You found Pain and Gain funny?
Some parts sure, some parts I found stupid and other parts just made me smile and feel content. It is definitely a comedy, and when it gets the tone right it can be very funny indeed.
Pyramid head
Banned
It doesn't want the viewer to laugh at a dwarf because he's a dwarf. I can see how a person who genuinely finds humour in a Michael Bay movie would think that's where the joke lies though.
Messofanego
Banned
Good to know.
"you don't know how much shit I've had to take off of black midgets"
then Colin Farrell slaps his hand like a child
the jokes are obviously around how short he is and how the other characters react to his height around him
Is it?
plasmawave
Banned
I was like this the whole time.
Courtesy to ganon for the gif.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
The jokes is that he's a racist asshole when he's high on cocaine, and instead of treating him with indifference because he's a dwarf they treat him like any other asshole who acts like a dick when high. No matter how bad you have it in life there's still room to be an asshole.
It was a pretty good film that was both lighthearted and dark. It was hard to gauge the tone as mashing those two elements together is a strange mix. So I came out of it wanting to know more about the real story. It was different, but I enjoyed it. I can see where some controversy comes from.
eh? they call him "shorty" and pinpoint that he is a "racist dwarf", not exactly treating him like any other dickhead
Violentine
Banned
Liked the movie, felt bad for the main guy, very intelligent individual. Just choose the wrong path to success.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Ray also calls a tourist "fatty" and Ken calls Harry a cunt repeatedly in the same sentence. They're treating him the same by not pulling punches and tiptoeing around the fact he's a dwarf.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
The stripper wasn't his girlfriend, she was a mark.
Delta Assault
Member
...a mark for what? What con was he trying to pull on her?
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Lots of good jokes, it was a funny movie. Marky Mark is funny, The Rock is funny, Tony Shaloub is funny, Bar Paly is funny, Peter Stormare is funny, the dismissive cops are funny. It's even kinda funny that Kurt Angle has a cameo.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Having watched the 48 Hours special on this incident, I definitely want to see how much Michael Bay twisted it to be more in line with his sensibilities.
Fox Mulder
Member
I liked it, even rank it among Bay's best.
Elwood Blues
Member
Bay is great at making terrible movies based off tragedies. We've known this since Pearl Harbor.
You mean the karate chop scene? The movie isn't laughing at a dwarf being a dwarf, because there's nothing inherently funny about that. The movie is putting a spotlight on the character's juvenility, which is the joke.
Edit: I see other people have properly addressed this.
All the characters are being juvenile, and persistently draw attention to his stature by the end of that scene. But there's not just that, the director does too.
For example, their sudden mouthing off on calling him names is in contrast to one of the first scenes where Ken meets him in a pub. Here, they talk about everything other than being a dwarf (his main point of contention is that he's American). Once he has pissed them off enough they let it fly with their feelings for him.
That would be fine, except in the pub scene we're also treated to a nice shot of the dwarf struggling to get the drinks off the bar. So yeh, we're supposed to find the dwarf funny because he's small.
Back on topic and to address your missed joke, we're not supposed to find The Rock funny because he's big. We're supposed to find him funny because he's stupid and gormless.
Mushroomer25
Member
Between this, Spring Breakers, and Wolf of Wall Street, we got three cultural satires so well done that swaths of critics mistook them for praising their subject matter. If you think Pain & Gain is glamorizing or idealizing the real-life killers, you're failing to understand the film. The entire cinematic tone is that of lavish exaggeration and decadence. By watching the film, you participate in the mutated American Dream that the killers tried to obtain. It's a character study, and intentionally or not - Micheal Bay perfectly captured the juvenile, stupid motivations of murderous thugs. The resulting film is like a waking nightmare, where every crime becomes wickedly just - and victims deserve their fate just by nature of their existence.
One of the best movies of last year. Made my top 10.
One of the best movies of last year. Made my top 10.
Considering that the wide audience Bay targeted with the rest of his filmography just seemed to think this movie was a racous caper with Wahlberg and Johnson being wacky and jacked, I think ascribing him with that level of sophisticated intent is far beyond generous. Let alone mentioning this in the same sentence as The Wolf of Wall Street.
I can't look at Wolf and P&G without thinking about authorial intent. I just can't, and Michael Bay is not Martin fucking Scorsese. Occam's Razor doesn't tell me that Bay stumbled into a masterpiece of commentary on greedy murderers, it just tells me that he's tone deaf.
Mushroomer25
Member
To be fair, I do also wonder if Bay's ability to portray the world of these characters through their inherently warped sensibility was a conscious choice - or if it was just a natural fit. But IMO, it really doesn't matter. I'm not saying Bay deserved the Oscar for this film - but I think as a whole, the piece is a really interesting watch that deserves more credit than it is afforded. It's also an easier watch than something like WoWS or Spring Breakers, since Bay's not faking it when he stages the world in the main character's view. That's how he's been making films for his entire career, and it results in a seamless fit.
Wiktor
Member
.I can't really take the victim's complains about his image in the movie seriously, when he really was sleezeball who stole 14 mln dollars on insurance fraud.
Anyway, I liked the movie, because it confused me. It was genuinelly funny at first, then it got scary, but still was funny in places. I felt a bit guilty about having fun watching what those dumbasses did. I don;t know if Bay intended it this way or not, but it's the end result that matters, even if it was a fluke.
Anyway, I liked the movie, because it confused me. It was genuinelly funny at first, then it got scary, but still was funny in places. I felt a bit guilty about having fun watching what those dumbasses did. I don;t know if Bay intended it this way or not, but it's the end result that matters, even if it was a fluke.
I agree with you 100% here.
Subtle direction of the actors is what would've tempered the parade of violence, and made this movie remotely resemble a satire.
TUROK
Member
http://arts.nationalpost.com/2013/0...re-fascinated-with-the-train-wrecks-of-crime/
He's not quite as dim-witted as people paint him out to be.
Sickboy007
Member
Horrible movie, not that different from Uwe Boll's Postal flicks.
That's obviously the problem, those of us that disliked this movie (WoWS too, for that matter) just didn't get them. It couldn't possibly be that they were both turds.
He's not saying that. He's saying critics thought they glamorised their respective scenarios. While it's true that both Wolf of Wall Street and Pain and Gain present their characters, their world and their actions completely unapologetically and unsympathetically, neither really attempted any form of moralising or preaching. Both do however show the "lifestyles of the rich and the famous" presented in a way we expect those lifestyles to be shown. Pain and Gain, as has been discussed in this thread, maybe doesn't do as good of a job as Wolf at subverting these expectations simply because it indulges in that representation of that lifestyle a little too seriously.
Critics thinking it glamorises the crimes/actions/characters/setting etc unfortunately says more about the critics' expectations for the movies they watch than the movies themselves. Kermode can't even get past Michael Bay's name appearing in the opening credits.
Sometimes it looks like The Rock was the only one that got it, e.g. the Unabomber scene. But Paly, Wahlberg and Harris playing it straight and Shaloub playing it insane worked out well I think. You're right though, there were obvious tonal shifts throughout.
So because dumb people that liked his other movies thought it was a dumb movie they liked, it is a dumb movie? Okay.
Did you just seriously compare a Michael Bay movie to Harmony Korine and Martin Scorcese movies? Because Bay has nowhere near the talent of those two. Bay makes cool looking movies with big action scenes, but has almost no tact.
Also, there is a real difference between the critics that didn't like WoWS and Spring Breakers and those that didn't like Pain & Gain. Where WoWS and Spring Breakers were generally liked by most renowned film critics (even ending on many 'best of'-lists), Pain & Gain was panned by almost every big reviewer.
I love Harmony, Spring Breakers is literally my favorite movie of all time, but I don't know about putting him on Team Tactful. Trash Humpers? Julien Donkey Boy?
P&G was a fun dark action/comedy. I'd watch it again.
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