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[GhostTrick]

VR is going to die with a closed ecosystem. Sony has an excuse for it to be related to its gaming platform, even though I think PSVR should act like a monitor for PC. Basically, VR Headsets should be a peripheral, a device, not an ecosystem. It'd be like having exclusive channels or movies depending on your TV brand or Blu-ray player brand. That sucks.
Oculus has no excuse for exclusives on PC. Exclusives to their store ? Sure why not. Exclusives to their headset hardware ? Screw that.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

I didn't read the interview, but why is it so frowned upon for him to base on what's sony is doing? Just looking at the exclusives sony got for PSVR makes it look like they are gonna sweep the floor with Pc only headsets.

Edit: Oh, I see, kinda missed how VR is just an display XD

But even so, VR is not just a display, it requires specific apis and tools. Just so happens that the makers of the headsets are making these development environments (not unlike old pc games that required specific vendor drivers), what we need is some sort of opengl/directx to come for VR.

We already do. It's called openVR.

 

[wumpy]

Fuck him and fuck Facebook. I'm in for a vive when I get a 1080

 

[Leyasu]

There's a difference between saying what they're doing is stupid and self-defeating and saying they don't have any right to do it.

A person has the right to drink a jug of gasoline. I'm still going to try to stop them until they make it clear to me that they're fully aware of what they're doing and what the consequences are, and that is the choice they want to make.

Ok, then shouldn't everyone be attacking every platform holder that tries to secure exclusive content?

They obviously have the right. That doesn't make it right.



Some people think exclusives are great. Other people hate exclusives and wish everyone could play everything on their platform of choice. Amazingly, both of these sets of people are allowed to express their opinions.

People who take the more open approach tend to prefer more open platforms, like PC. So when businesses try to introduce practices common on closed platfroms onto open platforms, like Microsoft with their Windows Store or Oculus here, they get criticised.

This isn't that hard to understand.

Windows store, steam, origin, they are all walled gardens on the pc. Fuck, we could write lists as long as our arms naming closed off services on pc... I ain't just talking about gaming either.

We will have to agree to disagree

 

[GhostTrick]

Ok, then shouldn't everyone be attacking every platform holder that tries to secure exclusive content?



Windows store, steam, origin, they are all walled gardens on the pc. Fuck, we could write lists as long as our arms naming closed off services on pc... I ain't just talking about gaming either.

We will have to agree to disagree

I fail to see how Steam is a walled garden though.

 

[Leyasu]

If you don't see the difference between PC and consoles nobody can help you with this.

Lol it ain't on pc though... It's on OR.

 

[Cipherr]

I called this guy out a long time ago, yet people continued to believe - "Oh, he's such a straight talker, he's not PR guy".

That GAF thread where Facebook bought Oculus......

Seriously. This kind of thing is basically the other shoe dropping. It's too good to be true for them to be bought out and people to not expect some sort of thing like this. It was always going to happen, just a bunch of people for some reason refused to see it coming, and shouted down anyone who suggested it.

DEALWITHIT

Tbh, I'm shocked people pretend hardware DRM hasn't been around for ages. It's like they've never heard of a Mac or something.

Yeah, and how many of us hardcore gamers that make up PC GAF game on freaking Macs eh? That's what I thought....

But don't worry. We will "Deal with it" just the way PC gamers always have, by voting with our wallets. And Oculus is going to be on the wrong side of that tidal wave. One thing is for sure; All those people who are super bullish on the growth rate expected for VR may need to step back and re-evaluate. Bullshit like this is not going to help. A bunch of segregated pieces all walling off their little space is just going to slow all of that down.

Seems really stupid to just be open in the beginning to at least get the market roaring forward, THEN pull the bs out... But nah, guess that's to much to ask for.

 

[mrklaw]

I'm sure a lot of the incompatibilities will be ironed out as VR homogenization occurs, but I'm mainly about things like position tracking - as I understand it the Oculus Rift is forward-facing (where your body can obscure objects the camera intends to track) whereas the Vive uses a 360 degree tracking methods - that could reasonably influence the design of a game and create exclusives.

Sure. But ironically the vive is a superset of the capabilities of the rift so the vive can do anything the rift can, but the rift can't do everything the vive can. Yet the vive is the open one and the rift is the closed one.

 

[MCN]

Fuck off, Palmer. Yes, you've made a neat gimmick. but hubris is a powerful word.

 

[JaseC]

Sounds like vitriol to me sir.

I'm not going to be banned for labelling you a troll and delineating the manner in which you are trolling, but you're setting yourself up for one by inventing and pushing a narrative that I'm personally attacking you, so I'd stop while you're ahead.

And that post you keep referring to doesn't say Vive and OR are the same platforms, I'm not sure what you are getting at, unless you are just trolling me. So again, you are incorrect. Sorry if your feathers are ruffled.

It also doesn't say that the Vive and Rift are separate platforms outside of the context of discussion on GAF. In fact, the opening sentence all but categorically states the opposite.

 

[Leyasu]

I fail to see how Steam is a walled garden though.

What's the difference between the windows store and and origin and steam?

 

[KingSnake]

Windows store, steam, origin, they are all walled gardens on the pc. Fuck, we could write lists as long as our arms naming closed off services on pc... I ain't just talking about gaming either.

Most people will be fine if the games would be exclusive to Oculus Home. That's not the point. The point is walled garden behind peripherals. And it's not just for this generation of VR HMDs. It's pretty obvious what's the long term strategy for Oculus.

Lol it ain't on pc though... It's on OR.

It's installed on PC, running on PC and sending output and getting input from a peripheral.

 

[ghostjoke]

Joke post I hope?

Mac/Apple defined hardware DRM as we know it today.

Exclusive games on separate VR platforms is not going to break VR gaming no matter how much doom you wish upon it.

These VR hardware differences are closer to console platforms and ecosystems IMO, which is why it doesn't bother me. And is also why threads like these remind me of port begging, even if 95% of the posters here are doing it.

Four paragraphs and over 50% of them spent on attacks instead of forwarding points. Kudos on the generalised insult instead of just sticking to me. Would you like to perhaps engage in discussion instead of just lashing out?

Let me tell you about this little company called Microsoft who keep trying to enter the PC gaming market without a clue what they're doing and get told to fuck off once every five or so years. Spoiler alert, despite owning the primarily gaming OS, they can't undo the standards set, and boy, are they trying despite the chorus of "fuck right off and take your UWP with them".

As for Apple, that's one hell of a lucrative PC gaming market to take inspiration from, Oculus.

I can see the argument for VR as a platform and not just a fancy monitor, you are just terrible at articulating it (mostly because you spend your time insulting people instead of explaining). I just disagree with it because it goes against what PC gaming is (see Mircosoft above). The issue is the people who are going in on the ground floor of VR are the people who are entrenched in PC gaming are going to define a lot of the early standards of it from a consumer perspective - what can fly and what can't - and these people are going to want the same things they expect from PC gaming.

 

[PnCIa]

Tons of money can have certain effects...what a tool. It makes sense for the company in short terms, who knows how this works out on the long term. The consumer is fucked though.

 

[anothertech]

Ok, then shouldn't everyone be attacking every platform holder that tries to secure exclusive content?



Windows store, steam, origin, they are all walled gardens on the pc. Fuck, we could write lists as long as our arms naming closed off services on pc... I ain't just talking about gaming either.

We will have to agree to disagree

Mac/Apple
Dx12
Nvidia
Pong for fucks sake

People trying to paint oculus like they are the founders of hardware DRM. So fcking ignorant.

 

[Heckler456]

Question: VR is inevitably going to move towards a one-stop-shop solution, in that the goggles are going to house the processing power at some point in the future. Should all software work on all goggles at that point? Sure, you could liken it to mobile phones, where "exclusive software" isn't really a thing. But on the gaming side of things, making games in house, or otherwise supporting devs to make games for your platform, should be a viable way to sell your platform, no? So, would people who are against it now be more accepting of the notion of "VR goggles as a platform" if it's a single thing you buy?

 

[Leyasu]

Most people will be fine if the games would be exclusive to Oculus Home. That's not the point. The point is walled garden behind peripherals. And it's not just for this generation of VR HMDs. It's pretty obvious what's the long term strategy for Oculus.

And if they want to have a platform replete with exclusive content, like any other, then they have the right. Yes I know that it ruffles feathers, but like everyone else they are trying to attract customers.

 

[Alienous]

Sure. But ironically the vive is a superset of the capabilities of the rift so the vive can do anything the rift can, but the rift can't do everything the vive can. Yet the vive is the open one and the rift is the closed one.

Right. My point is only that VR headsets can't simply be seen a display devices for content, and developers picking a single headset and designing around the capabilities of that makes sense.

Oculus locking any access to their exclusive games on other headsets does seem like a myopic money making move that hurts the legitimacy of VR as a platform currently. To be creating artificial content barriers at an infancy stage of this medium isn't a great prospect.

Ah well, it was likely this was the route Oculus would go since its Facebook acquisition.

And if they want to have a platform replete with exclusive content, like any other, then they have the right. Yes I know that it ruffles feathers, but like everyone else they are trying to attract customers.

People are voicing their distaste. I don't think anyone is challenging their right to do what they're doing.

 

[ghostjoke]

And if they want to have a platform replete with exclusive content, like any other, then they have the right. Yes I know that it ruffles feathers, but like everyone else they are trying to attract customers.

There is the issue that they still have to attract customers to VR in the first place.

 

[MCN]

Mac/Apple
Dx12
Nvidia
Pong for fucks sake

Nobody buys a Mac for gaming, and everybody hates their closed garden approach. Not sure what your point is there.

Not sure what you're talking about with DX12.

I'm pretty sure if I changed my Nvidia card for an equivalent or better ATI one, all my games would still run. Not sure what your point is there.

Pong was 40 years ago.

Finally, almost all games on Steam (except Valve-developed ones), are available elsewhere.

 

[KingSnake]

Question: VR is inevitably going to move towards a one-stop-shop solution, in that the goggles are going to house the processing power at some point in the future. Should all software work on all goggles at that point? Sure, you could liken it to mobile phones, where "exclusive software" isn't really a thing. But on the gaming side of things, making games in house, or otherwise supporting devs to make games for your platform, should be a viable way to sell your platform, no? So, would people who are against it now be more accepting of the notion of "VR goggles as a platform" if it's a single thing you buy?

It will still be a platform built on some common OS/framework, unless Oculus goes to the console model. So if it's built on a common OS, yes, it should work like Android. Or like Windows. Not locked behind hardware. If it will use proprietary hardware and OS it will be practically a console.

But as it's stands now, it uses common hardware and OS and locks behind a peripheral, so there is no comparison with your hypothetical situation.

And if they want to have a platform replete with exclusive content, like any other, then they have the right. Yes I know that it ruffles feathers, but like everyone else they are trying to attract customers.

They have the right to do it if they want and I have the right to say that they should take their practices and move to console market where they belong.

 

[GhostTrick]

What's the difference between the windows store and and origin and steam?

Policies ?
Steam allow for DRM free games, Steam allow publishers to print as much keys as they wish for free and sell them at 100% profit with Valve touching a single cent on it. Also the curation process. It's far easier to get your game on Steam than any of the other services. I don't want to sound like a PR, but there's a difference indeed.

 

[Leyasu]

It's installed on PC, running on PC and sending output and getting input from a peripheral.

In the same sense, shouldn't we be demanding every business/service that needs a pc to operate, to open up their stuff for everyone? Because you know , pc is an open platform?

 

[KingSnake]

In the same sense, shouldn't we be demanding every business/service that needs a pc to operate, to open up their stuff for everyone? Because you know , pc is an open platform?

Like? There is a difference between open and free, I hope you know that.

 

[Leyasu]

They have the right to do it if they want and I have the right to say that they should take their practices and move to console market where they belong.

They don't need to go to consoles though.... They already have their own platform.

 

[GhostTrick]

In the same sense, shouldn't we be demanding every business/service that needs a pc to operate, to open up their stuff for everyone? Because you know , pc is an open platform?

No one asks for their stuff to be open for everyone. People just ask for them to not make a software tied to a peripheral.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

And if they want to have a platform replete with exclusive content, like any other, then they have the right. Yes I know that it ruffles feathers, but like everyone else they are trying to attract customers.

And people can still voice their opinions on that shit. I am talking as a future Oculus customer (should hopefully arrive this or next week), that wont buy anything in their shop.

They first said "Oh. Anyone can make a hack. No problem. Just dont be surprised if a future patch might make it useless if we change things in our SDK."
Then the next patch to Oculus Home actually added DRM to the titles there.
Even before that "We dont actually block other HMD devices in our store. If they want to access it, they can. Then we got a confirmation by Gabe, that they dont have a problem with the Vive accessing Oculus Home. But still, only Oculus can access it.

And now look at Oculus Home. Even uPlay was a better client than Oculus Home when it launched. If you want to have exclusives, a store-exclusivity wouldnt make anyone made. After Revive a lot of Vive owners even bought things in their store. A hardware DRM is stupid and people voice their opinion that it is.

 

[Imperfected]

Ok, then shouldn't everyone be attacking every platform holder that tries to secure exclusive content?

People do seem to attack platform holders for "securing" exclusive content.

The general sentiment seems to be that, at best, it's acceptable when the project is bankrolled by the company in question or the studio is formed by the company in question, and the game never would have existed if not for that financial support.

Conversely, when a company steps in and drops a wad of money on the table to convince developers to drop support for competing platforms, people tend to respond in a vehemently negative fashion... and it also tends to reflect quite heavily in the sales of those games.

This is all aside from the fact that, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, they are selling to different audiences. The audience that buys PC games and the audience that buys console games are not 1:1. That has never been the case, and likely never will be. If you treat the PC market exactly like you treat the console market, you're going to have a bad time.

People who are playing on PC have made that choice because of different priorities from console gamers. Anyone trying to exist in that market has to know that by this point, having been given ample examples of companies like EA and Ubisoft failing to understand the difference to draw upon. What Palmer's doing is simply unwise.

Then, on top of that, he's basically putting himself in direct conflict with Valve in terms of policy. This, again, is needless and moronic. Steam had no issues with carrying software for Oculus and letting Oculus promote their hardware, but now Luckey has postured them in such a way that they are very much the "bad guy" and Valve no longer has any reason not to use their enormous dominance of the PC market to directly drive adoption of the Vive and promotion of compatible games over Oculus ones.

That is stupid, stupid, stupid. The "wow" value of a "killer app" he would need to have exclusive access to on the OR to equal the damage done by that decision is tremendous. I honestly don't think it even exists; it's just industrial suicide.

Again: the ethics entirely aside, it's just such a jaw-droppingly terrible business decision that he should be panned for it.

 

[Rncewind]

Policies ?
Steam allow for DRM free games, Steam allow publishers to print as much keys as they wish for free and sell them at 100% profit with Valve touching a single cent on it. Also the curation process. It's far easier to get your game on Steam than any of the other services. I don't want to sound like a PR, but there's a difference indeed.

Lol what?
Steam is a drm Plattform by itself
Steam cuts 30 percentage revenue

Ja at least curation is true but this result in scam games on mass like it was the era of the console crash, Jim sterling make several videos about it

The steam is our "good" overlord mentality is strong here I guess

 

[Leyasu]

Policies ?
Steam allow for DRM free games, Steam allow publishers to print as much keys as they wish for free and sell them at 100% profit with Valve touching a single cent on it. Also the curation process. It's far easier to get your game on Steam than any of the other services. I don't want to sound like a PR, but there's a difference indeed.

You don't sound like PR dude! Does steam have exclusives? Genuine question.

Like? There is a difference between open and free, I hope you know that.

I don't know if my post was the correct analogy. Lol

 

[moniker]

Lol what?
Steam is a drm Plattform by itself
Steam cuts 30 percentage revenue

Ja at least curation is true but this result in scam games on mass like it was the era of the console crash, Jim sterling make several videos about it

The steam is our "good" overlord mentality is strong here I guess

?

Everything he said was true.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Again: the ethics entirely aside, it's just such a jaw-droppingly terrible business decision that he should be panned for it.

Palmer doesnt have much to say in the Company after it was bought by Oculus. He is more like the "mascot" right now.
In the Tested interview you could actually see when talked about exclusivity, that he doesnt really believe in that, but has to give some kind of PR statement.

You don't sound like PR dude! Does steam have exclusives? Genuine question.

There are some devs, that only release their games on Steam.
In the end it doesnt matter, because its a software DRM, not some DRM tied to a peripheral/hardware...

 

[JaseC]

Lol what?
Steam is a drm Plattform by itself
Steam cuts 30 percentage revenue

Ja at least curation is true but this result in scam games on mass like it was the era of the console crash, Jim sterling make several videos about it

The steam is our "good" overlord mentality is strong here I guess

Custom Executable Generation, or Steam DRM, is entirely optional. There are many DRM-free games on Steam. Also, Valve does indeed make exactly $0.00 from retail sales of Steam games -- the keys are provided free-of-charge and there are no fees associated with activation or bandwidth. Literally the only difference between downloading a DRM-free game on Steam versus GOG is that one requires a client while the other any browser of your choosing -- the gateway is exactly the same (the act of logging into an account).

 

[geordiemp]

I dont know why but some people just rub me up wrong.

Mattrick I grind my teeth every time he spoke.

Every time I see Palmer in a video I want to walk up to him and stamp on his toe with his silly sandals. I need help GAF.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Mac/Apple

Only a small cross-section of the PC gaming community games on Macs. Further, Macs are not closed platforms. You're thinking of iOS, where you have to use their store to buy anything. You can install OSX-compatible software from anywhere on the net, just like Windows. They might not have the selection of games PCs have because of the different OS, smaller market and requirement for OpenGL, but it's not closed and exclusives come (or don't come) as a matter of preference or convenience; not because Apple is paying developers to make games for their desktop OS.

Dx12

What about it? How many games require it? Are you under the impression that these headsets are as complicated as the DirectX api? Is DirectX12 stopping games from being made on other APIs? What is your point here?

Nvidia

What about them? Do I have to spend $600 to play Nvidia exclusive games? Please list all the games that ONLY work on Nvidia GPUs. Please screenshot the games that give you an alert saying the game will only play on Nvidia GPUs. I'll wait.

Pong for fucks sake

It was a game released in 1972. Beyond that...what the fuck are you alluding to?

People trying to paint oculus like they are the founders of hardware DRM. So fcking ignorant.

People are being real about what it means to game on PC and are disgusted by any and every attempt to gate off portions of it with hardware. This isn't Gsync making games look smoother. This is like if Gsync was a requirement to play Nvidia branded and sponsored games. There would be smoke in the fucking city.

You, bizarrely, are grandstanding and trying to act like walled gardens are a normal thing on PC. They fucking aren't and they will never be accepted. Go sit down somewhere.

 

[Soodes]

Lol what?
Steam is a drm Plattform by itself
Steam cuts 30 percentage revenue

Ja at least curation is true but this result in scam games on mass like it was the era of the console crash, Jim sterling make several videos about it

The steam is our "good" overlord mentality is strong here I guess

There's several layers of DRM that Steam can bring, by default it's DRM in that you have to have a Steam account and have to own the game in order to play it. But Steam adds more value than anything here with their API for developers and support for downloading and updating the game.

And there's also many games that are completely DRM free even though they're available through Steam, meaning you can download through Steam, but you don't have to have Steam running in order to play them: http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

Steam gets no cut from copies sold anywhere else than the Steam store. And developers are free to sell as many keys as they want in any other place, and they can still redeem them on Steam.

 

[Rncewind]

Custom Executable Generation, or Steam DRM, is entirely optional. There are many DRM-free games on Steam. Also, Valve does indeed make exactly $0.00 from retail sales of Steam games -- the keys are provided free-of-charge and there are no fees associated with activation or bandwidth. Literally the only difference between downloading a DRM-free game on Steam versus GOG is that one requires a client while the other any browser of your choosing -- the gateway is exactly the same (the act of logging into an account).

I must download and install steam to activate a bought game, that's drm


Also yay for retail pc games I guess, it's not like pc market is 90 percentage digital

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Facebook really needs to stop letting Palmer talk to the media. He's burned through so much consumer good will the past few months. I lost all respect I had for him. He was the one who got me hyped for VR and now I am just sad when I read his latest Reddit comments or media quotes.

 

[GhostTrick]

Lol what?
Steam is a drm Plattform by itself
Steam cuts 30 percentage revenue

Ja at least curation is true but this result in scam games on mass like it was the era of the console crash, Jim sterling make several videos about it

The steam is our "good" overlord mentality is strong here I guess

Steam is a DRM and a client. But Steam allows for DRM free games to be sold on Steam, which means you can run them without the client and even copy them. Games sold on Steam aren't mandated to have the DRM activated. It's not a DRM by itself, it's a platform but it's also a DRM.
Steam cuts 30 percentage revenue for games sold on the Steam store. But if you buy your Steam key from the developper site, the developper gets 100% of the revenue, while being activated on Steam, with no fees for keys productions.
Even if this result in scam games, I rather have the right to buy a shitty game. And I prefer that than seeing amazing games being rejected, by let's say GOG.

But we're getting off topic here, the point is that not everything on PC is a walled garden and Oculus is allowed to be a closed store, the problem is being a closed hardware.

I must download and install steam to activate a bought game, that's drm


Also yay for retail pc games I guess, it's not like pc market is 90 percentage digital

No. A DRM is to prevent copies. Activation and copying are two different things.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I must download and install steam to activate a bought game, that's drm
l

So would actually be registering an account....

 

[JaseC]

I must download and install steam to activate a bought game, that's drml

What is the qualitative difference between logging into your Steam account to download a DRM-free game and logging into your GOG account to download one?

 

[Rncewind]

So would actually be registering an account....

I hope you know how drm worked when steam was introduced, are you new to pc gaming?

But whatever, Steam good and origin bad and so on, carry on

 

[I'm new be nice]

Drop the hardware check Oculus. You lost, and should have known better. Fire the man who made that call.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I hope you know how drm worked when steam was introduced, are you new to pc gaming?

Are we in 2003 or 2016?

Remind me.

 

[Soodes]

I hope you know how drm worked when steam was introduced, are you new to pc gaming?

But whatever, Steam good and origin bad and so on, carry on

No one is saying that. Just what you're saying about Steam is wrong.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I hope you know how drm worked when steam was introduced, are you new to pc gaming?

But whatever, Steam good and origin bad and so on, carry on

I am gaming on PC since 1993.
I know how it works, thank you.

You are saying by having to download a client, that is DRM. So would actually be registering an account to download DRM free games.
Besides the steam client is still hugely browser-based (at least the shop).

 

[Rncewind]

What is the qualitative difference between logging into your Steam account to download a DRM-free game and logging into your GOG account to download one?

If you care too read the post I replied too, it was a post which claimed steam is so much better then other pc game sell plattforms

So why you asking me this?

 

[GhostTrick]

I hope you know how drm worked when steam was introduced, are you new to pc gaming?

But whatever, Steam good and origin bad and so on, carry on

Said no one ever. Also, people used arguments. You could at least be respectful and less patronizing, like, seriously.

If you care too read the post I replied too, it was a post which claimed steam is so much better then other pc game sell plattforms

So why you asking me this?

I didn't said better, I said the policies were different. Some people consider that curation is better, that's arguable. I'm talking differencies and the fact that it's not a walled garden, because you can deal without Valve.

 

[anothertech]

Four paragraphs and over 50% of them spent on attacks instead of forwarding points. Kudos on the generalised insult instead of just sticking to me. Would you like to perhaps engage in discussion instead of just lashing out?

Let me tell you about this little company called Microsoft who keep trying to enter the PC gaming market without a clue what they're doing and get told to fuck off once every five or so years. Spoiler alert, despite owning the primarily gaming OS, they can't undo the standards set, and boy, are they trying despite the chorus of "fuck right off and take your UWP with them".

As for Apple, that's one hell of a lucrative PC gaming market to take inspiration from, Oculus.

I can see the argument for VR as a platform and not just a fancy monitor, you are just terrible at articulating it (mostly because you spend your time insulting people instead of explaining). I just disagree with it because it goes against what PC gaming is (see Mircosoft above). The issue is the people who are going in on the ground floor of VR are the people who are entrenched in PC gaming are going to define a lot of the early standards of it from a consumer perspective - what can fly and what can't - and these people are going to want the same things they expect from PC gaming.

Ok, it's not my intent to insult anyone. I haven't attacked anyone for their opinions here directly. If it looks so of anyone feels so, I was combatting several pages of being called a troll rather callously, so I was sucked into that silliness.

The only reason I brought Apple up is because the sentiment Oculus was inventing hardware DRM was ludicrous to me, and some were arguing it. That's the only point to be made there. Whether Macs are good for gaming or not has nothing to do with the Oculus Rift.

I agree with the MS approach being assinine. I still feel like they are headed in the wrong direction.

My entire view on this subject is that each of the VR platforms should be looked at as individuals. Not some clump of gimmick peripherals. These aren't add ons to the PC in my view. These are separate platforms, completely different in spec and design. Vive is built upon 360 ir room scale gaming, Rift is designed for straight forward experiences while sitting. It's my contention that the official GAF thread on the subject agrees with me. In this context, the VR platforms aren't much different than consoles, whether they are powered by pc's or not.

Apparently to some, this view point means I'm a troll with alterior motives to create chaos.

I'm not trying to get anyone banned or attack anyone. My whole port begging comparison is based on the VR platforms
Being much closer to console like hardware platforms than peripherals like many are trying to suggest. That's all I have been trying to say. It's not a popular viewpoint. But I think it's more in line with the official thread on the topic than most posts here convey.

 

[JaseC]

If you care too read the post I replied too, it was a post which claimed steam is so much better then other pc game sell plattforms

So why you asking me this?

...because you replied to me and claimed that Steam counts as DRM because Steam.