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[speculawyer]

Terrible tragedy. I hope they can investigate what happened and learn from it. I know that in the USA there are various laws regarding 'festival seating' to try to prevent such deaths since the same type of thing happened at a Who concert in the 1970s.


And the irony of 15 deaths at a 'love festival' is sadly ironic.

 

[BeeDog]

Holy fucking shit, this sucks. And to think I almost went there (but went to EXIT in Serbia instead). R.I.P. to all the victims, such a horrific way to die.

 

[Danielsan]

Just received a text message back. Luckily they are okay and were nowhere near the tunnel during the panic.

Here is some video footage what is was like in the tunnel (not during the panic outbreak):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWm3z_TCkeQ
Absolutely nuts.

 

[Art Teitlebaum]

Just received a text message back. Luckily they are okay and were nowhere near the tunnel during the panic.

I still can't get in contact to my friends, but the official phone hotline was able to tell me, that they are definitely not on the list of injured or dead persons. So I feel quite relieved right now.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Wow this sucks. I almost went there today, but I had other business.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

It seems so bizarre that people are still partying whilst knowing what just happened.

a lot of them dont know... they didnt tell them over the pa - its only word of mouth...

 

[Goldrusher]

Where are the mods ?!

Fix the thread title, this happened in Duisburg, not Berlin.

 

[Timbuktu]

jeez... the title worried me, a friend just went to Berlin a couple of days ago.

RIP to the victims in any case.

 

[Goldrusher]

update:

18 dead
120 injured, of which 40 serious

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

 

[NomarTyme]

Wow.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Reminds me of Hillsborough in the UK back in 89'. SMH

First thing that came to my mind.

My uncle was at that game (Forest fan). Luckily he wasn't involved in any of the stuff in the tunnel but it really fucked him up, mentally.

The most tragic thing about this incident is it'll likely turn out that it was easily avoidable, just like Hillsborough was.

 

[Diablos]

That is seriously messed up. I feel so bad for those injured and killed. What a way to go. :\

How could they screw that up, though? They had to know how packed the event would be... to have that many people rushing through a tunnel of that size is insanely stupid.

 

[Mindlog]

unverified source

'FABIO'

We were standing in the middle of it. More and more people were trying to get to the grounds.

We were almost through the tunnel and were standing at the entrance, but [the crowd] went no further. We went back through the tunnel, and my girlfriend and I could scarcely breathe. We had to use our elbows to get through. We told the police that it would soon come to a mass panic.

That was around 45 minutes before the accident. There were already people pushed together in rows.

Very scary situation. Here's hoping they learn from this, but keep the festival going.

 

[Majine]

It's now 19.

340 injured.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I was at Woodstock 99 and sometimes would find myself not in control of my body because of the crush of people at the front of the stage. It's a jarring feeling and I can understand why so many people compacted into an area could cause a panic.

 

[Socreges]

It's now 19.

340 injured.

Fuck.

I've been to different festivals that had moments like this that fortunately never ended in disaster. I think it's the tunnel that did them in. It really adds to any possible claustrophobia and sense of panic.

 

[Always-honest]

damn.. horrible.

gotta say, this is why i don't go to these kind of mega events..

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

BBC News

Mark Knight interviewed by the Beeb.

 

[Tieno]

Looks like a game drive. This is one of my nightmares. I'd be scared just going to such an event.

 

[Blablurn]

according to what i heard they guys who organized this year love parade expected only 500.000 people to come. but it's well known that most of the time 1 to 1.5m vivistors attend the event. and this whole tunnel entrance is ridiculous.

 

[Night_Trekker]

It seems so bizarre that people are still partying whilst knowing what just happened.

Really? I kind of expected that. I mean, it's totally inappropriate, but I didn't think crushing a few people would stop a bunch of people from wanting to party.

 

[Goldrusher]

Why is Berlin in the title, it's in Duisburg this year. Nowhere near Berlin.

Still no title edit ? It's been over 15 hours.

Berlin has nothing to do with this.

 

[JBaird]

That's a lot of zombies.

 

[akachan ningen]

At least they died doing what they loved.

 

[maniac-kun]

Couldnt happen if the love parade would still be in Berlin where it belongs. This tunnel is a failure of the organizers.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

At least they died doing what they loved.

yes, I would feel lucky to be crushed in a tunnel, cause standing in a tunnel is rad.

 

[Binabik15]

The only thing worse than a mass panic in an enclosed space might be a mass panic amongst drugged up party people in an enclosed space :/

 

[hyp]

Duisburging story.

:lol

 

[Sinatar]

At least they died doing what they loved.

They loved being crushed to death in a dark tunnel?

 

[Art Teitlebaum]

Right now a police raid takes place in the Duisburg city hall. There have been warnings in all official meetings by police and fire department. Now the investigations against organizers and city executives begin.

Hopefully some irresponsible assholes end in jail for this. This was a foreseeable disaster.

 

[Tieno]

Right now a police raid takes place in the Duisburg city hall. There have been warnings in all official meetings by police and fire department. Now the investigations against organizers and city executives begin.

Hopefully some irresponsible assholes end in jail for this. This was a foreseeable disaster.

Exactly. Who in their right mind would funnel so many people through a tunnel. It's a cage.

 

[Chao]

I don't get how anybody can enjoy being in the middle of such a cluttered crowd. There is no fucking scape if anything goes wrong.

 

[Coen]

Hopefully some irresponsible assholes end in jail for this. This was a foreseeable disaster.

Really?
It's a tragedy, but I always feel like the 'blame'-game is wrong and takes away from the more important issue: to prevent this from happening again. I actually attended the Pearl Jam drama at Roskilde a couple of years ago and I keep saying something like it is always a possibility when crowds that big gather.

 

[Ferga]

Ugh Crushed. What a horrendous way to go. :/

Drowning is still the worst way to go for me.

Not breathing... swallowing water... struggling to swim back... slowly losing consciousness... getting tired... *shudder*

 

[Art Teitlebaum]

Really?
It's a tragedy, but I always feel like the 'blame'-game is wrong and takes away from the more important issue: to prevent this from happening again. I actually attended the Pearl Jam drama at Roskilde a couple of years ago and I keep saying something like it is always a possibility when crowds that big gather.

OK, you are quite right, that there's sometimes the "who's to blame"-reflex, but in this case there have been real impressive warnings before the event concerning the security at this special point of the route in the tunnel. It is not a coincidence, that there was such a terrible incident, but it really was foreseeable.
In this thread there is a reference to the derwesten forum (http://www.derwesten.de/kultur/musik-und-konzerte/loveparade/Loveparade-wird-zum-Tanz-auf-dem-Drahtseil-id3265037.html), where normal people before the event were shocked that the route to the site was going through the tunnel and that the abandoned station was much too small for the million of people expected to come.
So no, it is totally legit to investigate who's to blame. This should be a warning too for the planning of the love parade 2011 in Gelsenkirchen (which will be canceled anyway, I'm sure...)

 

[Dexa]

sad

idiotic organizer

 

[hEist]

. This should be a warning too for the planning of the love parade 2011 in Gelsenkirchen (which will be canceled anyway, I'm sure...)

yeah, i think also that i will be canceled.

 

[Blablurn]

the organizer just confirmed that this was the last love parade.

 

[Danielsan]

the organizer just confirmed that this was the last love parade.

Sad but not surprising.

 

[caramac]

Reminds me of Hillsborough in the UK back in 89'. SMH

Just what l was thinking .......terrible

 

[edbrat]

this is absolutely horrible news.

Surprises me in many ways, I went to Rock am Ring in the Nurburgring a couple of years back and it was one of the best organised festivals I've ever been to. Our main route to the festival from our campsite actually went through a tunnel like that but it was one of many many routes so the pressure was nothing like that. One morning it did get really crowded and the organisers stopped people advancing down the road behind and stopped people moving forward in the tunnel to allow people up ahead to get into the festival and clear more space. We were stationary in there for around 15 mins at which point the Germans kicked off a simon says type game where we all stand up, crouch down, jump up, shout something in German I didn't understand. If that happens this year I can imagine the mood will be a lot more sombre.

There has to be some pretty serious investigation about this. I read in UK news this am that 1.4m went which is an insanely huge number, especially if it was the first time the area had put the event on and had no experience to help them. And these things really must be avoidable by now, god knows we have had enough of them. It is possible to control insane numbers but you really have to know what you are doing and organise your entire area like a totalitarian state. There are loads of environmental tricks to influence the movement dynamics of large crowds and really good festivals use them all. I would call out Rock Werchter outside Brussels as another grade A example of awesome festival organisation. Of course if no onsite remedies work you've got too many people or the organisers are not up to it and they need addressing before the event even starts

 

[Arjen]

the organizer just confirmed that this was the last love parade.

Damn

 

[Coen]

OK, you are quite right, that there's sometimes the "who's to blame"-reflex, but in this case there have been real impressive warnings before the event concerning the security at this special point of the route in the tunnel. It is not a coincidence, that there was such a terrible incident, but it really was foreseeable.
In this thread there is a reference to the derwesten forum (http://www.derwesten.de/kultur/musik-und-konzerte/loveparade/Loveparade-wird-zum-Tanz-auf-dem-Drahtseil-id3265037.html), where normal people before the event were shocked that the route to the site was going through the tunnel and that the abandoned station was much too small for the million of people expected to come.
So no, it is totally legit to investigate who's to blame. This should be a warning too for the planning of the love parade 2011 in Gelsenkirchen (which will be canceled anyway, I'm sure...)

Ah sorry, didn't know that. And I agree, an investigation is warranted but I just don't think you can put this on a single person. Love Parade's organisation and security for going with this route, Duisburg for giving the permit, who- or whatever caused the panic, all are in one way or another responsible for what happened. Locking a single person up for the next couple of years just isn't the way to go, it's not helping anything I feel.

And I do think it's sad they've already cancelled next years Love Parade. Understandable decision but it could've been an opportunity to really change the way they manage these mass events.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I don't get how anybody can enjoy being in the middle of such a cluttered crowd. There is no fucking scape if anything goes wrong.

Eh I've been to a lot of outdoor festivals which are packed out like that and it's totally possible to manage the crowd safely. Like Art is saying, someone fucked up and they need to be held accountable.

 

[gofreak]

If they were only expecting x number of people and a multiple of that showed up...I don't understand how people who didn't have a ticket were able to get anywhere near the place. Any event I've been to has been cordoned off from some distance, with police checks on the roads leading in to it, so that only those with tickets can remotely get to a point where they're with lots of other people. Here it seems like anyone who wanted to, with or without a ticket, got to that point?

 

[Goldrusher]

If they were only expecting x number of people and a multiple of that showed up...I don't understand how people who didn't have a ticket were able to get anywhere near the place. Any event I've been to has been cordoned off from some distance, with police checks on the roads leading in to it, so that only those with tickets can remotely get to a point where they're with lots of other people. Here it seems like anyone who wanted to, with or without a ticket, got to that point?

There were no tickets. It's a free event.

 

[Flek]

the organizer just confirmed that this was the last love parade.

it should have gone back to berlin … berlin whas perfect for so many peoble just look at this:

 

[brain_stew]

I've been in a few pretty bad crushes at festivals in the past and you've really got to have your wits about you and know what you're doing or its quite easy to get dragged under by the crowd. If you ever do, you've got to pray there's some decent guys around you that will always instinctively put an arm out and help you up. With 1.5 million people there, its very likely that a lot of those people have never been in a situation like that before and with a lot of boozed/drugged up people around you can't be sure of a strong helping hand either. Recipe for disaster tbh.

Its easy to see how panic could break out as losing a friend/relative would have been pretty easy and being in an unfamiliar and dangerous environment all by yourself isn't the most pleasent of things.

Heart goes out to all of those dead/injured, its a horrible, horrible way to go. Even for those that survived unscathed, to know that you may have yourself trampled on some of the dead (through no fault of your own of course) has got to be unsettling. :/

 

[brain_stew]

There were no tickets. It's a free event.

Yeah, not a good idea. Imo, even a free event should be ticketed, just get people to register online/via text to get a ticket and do a big awareness campaign beforehand so that people no that they won't get in if they turn up without a ticket. That way you can have some sort of semi-reasonable control on numbers. A completely ticket free event like that with a big history/reputation and hosted in a new venue for the first time has got to make any estimates a complete shot in the dark. Simple things like the weather and sporting results can have a huge impact on attendances.

The more I learn about it, the more it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.