Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Good
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Paper Mario Color Splash announced
- Thread starter Azalean
- Start date
Yeah and some people legitimately liked Sticker Stars and that one sold better than Paper Mario and Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, go figure. However a trailer with anything will likely come at a later date, my guess is this game will come out before the "holidays window".
Sure, like I said before it's better than Partners in Time and Dream Team, personally I don't have issues with the basic Mario game story wise because the writing was fine.
This phenomenon we see happen with modern Nintendo is what I call the NSMB effect:
DKC Returns & Tropical Freeze - Lack the charm and atmosphere of the original trilogy, I've seen people say they don't want to play it because it's similar to the movie Madagascar in tone rather than the more moody and serious tone of the first three.
NSMB U - Some people are turned off by the presentation to the point they aren't interested in playing it no matter how good the level design is, the music and visuals are soulless etc.
Yoshi's Woolly World - Described as bland and uninspired compared to the original SNES game.
Super Mario 3D World - Not a true 3D Mario, Galaxy was OK but hope the next game is more like Mario 64, however this kawaii cat suit game has more in common with the 2D games and doesn't have the epicness or immersion factor of the N64 masterpiece. People genuinely thought it was a 3DS game when it was revealed.
I can go on and on but I think you get the idea. My point is that this is different from your Banjo analogy, that example has more to do with the fact that colorful mascot games or stylized games with arcady gameplay don't sell to the Xbox and Playstation audience. This is why Bloodstained, Yooka Laylee and Mighty No 9 kickstarters are things and why Nintendo is funding Bayonetta 2 and possibly BG&E 2 as no other publisher wants to go anywhere near those games.
Chibi Robo Zip Lash is another example where Nintendo does something radically different as a last resort to a niche franchise. Star Fox Zero has been trashed since the reveal for its insistence on motion controls and low budget graphics. Skyward Sword and DS Zeldas had very similar complaints as well as their linear nature, there was even a term invented for this (puzzelda). Although in the case of Zelda, it looks like they are listening because ALBW and Zelda U are exactly what core gamers want from the franchise so I guess there is a glimmer of hope after all.
This all goes back to the original point that Nintendo is a gameplay company first and foremost, I don't understand people who dismiss modern Nintendo games for aspects regarding personality and atmosphere when the gameplay is what really matters.
Well, at least the game isn't set in the mainland Mushroom Kingdom. In terms of story, one could argue that is already a step-up from both Sticker Star and Paper Jam.
Plus, the world map seems to show things like a train, a mansion and a mill. Hopefully this means that not only will we be able to traverse locations with a degree of variety, but that there will also be a variety of story scenarios for Mario to respond to.
El Pescado
Member
That's fine. I think TTYD was too wordy and bland, but I know that's what most people think is the best Paper Mario. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
I havent played Sticker Star, so I assumed it was just because the battles were overly gimmicky. So the game doesnt really play like either of the first two titles?
I'm so conflicted about this game. On one hand, I continue to mourn the loss of the TTYD style of Paper Mario, but on the other hand, I'm interested to see how they're exactly going to refine the weaker points of Sticker Star and make it a better game.
Seeing that we're in a made-up location and not in the Mushroom Kingdom is a good start. Now what remains to be seen is if they fixed the broken battle system of Sticker Star and the more obtuse exploration elements of that game as well as the lack of interesting characters/situations.
Seeing that we're in a made-up location and not in the Mushroom Kingdom is a good start. Now what remains to be seen is if they fixed the broken battle system of Sticker Star and the more obtuse exploration elements of that game as well as the lack of interesting characters/situations.
I hope you're right. I'm still upset about what I saw today, but I'll keep the tiniest sliver of hope that it won't be as bland as the previous game.
madstarr12
Member
How upsetting. Hopefully the setting and characters are fun to interact with. I was kinda hoping for a full RPG like the first two, with the creativity of characters from the Wii game. Oh well.....no more Mr. L and stuff like that....
SS has battles you dont even need to do with braindead bosses that simply need the right object to kill them with. Cant target the enemy you want either so theres even less depth.
Once again, it doesn't have to be an RPG. Sticker Star was insanely generic in terms of character and story, but if you don't care about that then I guess it could be considered a good game.
Not by me though, as I didn't like the gameplay either, but I could've accepted it if everything else wasn't ruined.
This was the only game shown on the Direct with an incredibly nebulous release date. "Currently planned for release in 2016"? Not even a real trailer for the game? Mario Tennis at least got a proper trailer in E3 and a release period, maybe cause they knew they were going to shit that one out soon.
Something tells me that this is going to be a holiday season title like Sticker Star was and that they still have a lot of development time left to go through. There's been rumors of a new Paper Mario for Wii U for quite a lot of months ever since that IntSys pamphlet so it's not like they haven't had time to get systems working if that holds water.
Considering Miyamoto admitted on the IGN interview that the reason Star Fox Zero was delayed was so they could implement branching paths and more levels due to fan demand, maybe they're being a little more hush about this game in hopes of gauging additional feedback.
Speaking of rumors - anyone remember when the rumor broke a few weeks ago and ShockingAlberto said that the game was apparently going to have the Koopa Kids in it?
It's the NSMB of the Paper Mario games.
The typical bland Mushroom Kingdom environments, no partners, characters are mostly toads and koopas, very basic story and thin plot, almost none of the charming and funny dialog, no exploration elements and finally the overworld has been replaced with a level select screen (think Spirit Tracks)
Basically there's no charm or originality when it comes to presentation aspects of the game but it does play like a Paper Mario game in terms of gameplay.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Was it not explicitly said this is a WiiU game? Could it possibly be released for the NX in that case?
SirPenguin
Member
If that was truly their goal then they have objectively failed. Since TTYD each iteration has contained fewer features and has felt increasingly stale
It's almost laughable, but the Paper Mario formula is currently "amplify all the worst parts about the previous game and add a gimmick"
Green Mamba
Member
I stopped expecting an actual RPG from them a few years ago but that doesn't stop the fact that this garbage still stings.
Like, I've known the series was dead or dying for some time, but it still hurts to see actual confirmation.
The game has a Wii U logo and the footage explicitly showed the cards being utilized by using the Wii U game pad.
Professor Renegade
Banned
Fucking cards still...
Pokemaniac
Member
Taking a closer look at the world map makes me slightly more hopeful that this might actually be good, but I'm still not getting excited unless we see some actual evidence that the story and gameplay problems from Sticker Star have been fixed.
Well yeah Nintendo's philosophy is to have superficial elements add familiarity while coming up with new central mechanics the game is based around. It's the "same thing" but with a twist.
Sometimes it's subtle (cat suits adding verticality to the 3D Mario level design) and other times it's immediately apparent (concepts based on the various effects of gravity). That other part of your post regarding amplify the worst parts has to do with them removing all the unecessary fluff, stripping each franchise down to the bare essentials.
Black Volt
Neo Member
Sticker Star had turn based battles without partners and you used expendable cards instead of selecting attack types. Can't really remember if they kept the active battle systems, but it just felt like a far inferior version of the older systems. Not to mention the levels themselves were practically adventure games involving using stickers and "things".
Why is it so hard to just understand that people were completely satisfied with the older battle system? Why not just start there and build upon that instead?
Nintendo does it with regular Mario platformers every year, why is it so impossible for them to do that with Paper Mario? :/
Nintendo does it with regular Mario platformers every year, why is it so impossible for them to do that with Paper Mario? :/
-shadow-
Member
Because Miyamoto. And I'm not talking about that ridiculous poisonous/toxic game design people sometimes mention. He wanted the game to be redesigned and was satisfied with Sticker Star. I believe that in the Iwata Asks for Sticker Star they even deliberately went this way for future installments.
entremet
Member
This whole thread reads like a funeral lol.
Honestly, TTYD fans is more apropos now. Paper Mario hasn't been a proper RPG for two generations now.
I do think we'll get a TTYD sequel for NX.
This is a swan song Wii U title, so it's less ambitious.
Honestly, TTYD fans is more apropos now. Paper Mario hasn't been a proper RPG for two generations now.
I do think we'll get a TTYD sequel for NX.
This is a swan song Wii U title, so it's less ambitious.
Green Mamba
Member
But it will all be over once the game bombs and Nintendo shelves the series entirely.
Fucking hell this is still making me angry. It seems insane that Nintendo thinks having two Mario RPG series is too much when the best of both Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi came out when Paper Mario was still an RPG series! This fucking company.
Fucking hell this is still making me angry. It seems insane that Nintendo thinks having two Mario RPG series is too much when the best of both Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi came out when Paper Mario was still an RPG series! This fucking company.
I strongly disagree with all three.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Don't forget about their kids!
how obnoxious
BlindJesus
Member
Because 13 years is a long time, and the new generation doesn't remember a Paper Mario with an RPG battle system. The audience who remembers and cherishes TTYD and PM64(my favorite) are a small minority...It's a systemic issue that affects every long running franchise(except maybe Pokemon wierdly enough), streamlining game mechanics is just part of the process. Now an opinion, the early 2000s was a great point for gaming because it hadn't exploded in popularity to the current levels and the 'hardcore' audience represented a larger percentage than now. Developers make a game around the demographic they trying to reach.
When did TYD come out, 10 years ago? M&L has been filling up those gaps ever since. Paper Mario isnt some franchise getting stale to the point where they have to completely scrap everything that TYD built. Same problem with Chibi Robo Zip Lash.
Miyamoto wont ever do this to his baby, Pikmin, but has no problem doing it to other franchises. Why? Because Pikmin isnt stale and each game brings new ideas while building on old ones.
Miyamoto wont ever do this to his baby, Pikmin, but has no problem doing it to other franchises. Why? Because Pikmin isnt stale and each game brings new ideas while building on old ones.
Astral Dog
Member
It Looks Amazing omg
Well looking at this.
What if this game breaks the 2 million mark? I mean STICKER STAR OF ALL THINGS did it, with a bigger install base and all sure, but still.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I would say childish.
The Silver
Member
oh i remember hearing that stuff, yeah Sticker Star aint for me and if Color is like that then pass.
No I mean the fact that you're still stuck on that. He just said something because he got angry
like jeez
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Ok.
I knew that also I'm not serious. It was childish though.
Intelligent Systems really need to get the gameplay balance right this time. There's no real reason to fight in Sticker Star: enemies are more of a hindrance than a challenge and a mean of progression. I usually fought all those suckers because of OCD more than anything else. We need more than a few coins as a reward, and the more I think about it, there more I feel like there's no escaping levelling up and EXP.
The puzzle design needs to be revamped: no more "place obvious key item here to watch pretty cutscene" design, please. Give us cool platforming puzzles, stuff which requires thinking and precise execution. I mean, it's an action/adventure now, right? The action part can't only be the useless battles. Also, key items shouldn't be consumable items, and the battle system should be designed around this as well, so it's not exploitable.
The boss battles in Sticker Star are actually the worst part of the game, and it saddens me such good game designers overlooked such a fatal flaw. "Let's make the boss battles cryptic puzzles in which the player could actually NOT have the required sticker to take one boss down, and just to fuck with their dumb ugly faces, let's offer the solution to the bullshit stuff we came up with after the player dies a couple of times, so it's nothing more than dumb trial and error!" Fuck that noise, never do that again.
The world design needs to steer clear of the usual NSMB plains/desert/water/snow/forest/cloud/lava motif and venture into some truly creative stuff. Take PP:TTYD as an inspiration for environmental and theming creativity and variety: you made that game yourselves, goddammit! I mean, if story probably won't keep us going, at least make us adventure through some interesting locations. The mariachi Shy Guys and some other touches were cool, I'll admit, but it's too little. The trailer shows some promise in this regard, but we've only seen what can be assumed to be the first location in the game, so all caution is needed.
I actually liked Sticker Star for what it was, but the flaws were too glaring (and I didn't even touch the story aspects and the lack of interesting characters!), and I don't feel like touching the same issues with a new coat of paint (ha!). I'm hopeful IS will get it right this time, since they usually make some damn good and interesting games.
...but hey, you never know
The puzzle design needs to be revamped: no more "place obvious key item here to watch pretty cutscene" design, please. Give us cool platforming puzzles, stuff which requires thinking and precise execution. I mean, it's an action/adventure now, right? The action part can't only be the useless battles. Also, key items shouldn't be consumable items, and the battle system should be designed around this as well, so it's not exploitable.
The boss battles in Sticker Star are actually the worst part of the game, and it saddens me such good game designers overlooked such a fatal flaw. "Let's make the boss battles cryptic puzzles in which the player could actually NOT have the required sticker to take one boss down, and just to fuck with their dumb ugly faces, let's offer the solution to the bullshit stuff we came up with after the player dies a couple of times, so it's nothing more than dumb trial and error!" Fuck that noise, never do that again.
The world design needs to steer clear of the usual NSMB plains/desert/water/snow/forest/cloud/lava motif and venture into some truly creative stuff. Take PP:TTYD as an inspiration for environmental and theming creativity and variety: you made that game yourselves, goddammit! I mean, if story probably won't keep us going, at least make us adventure through some interesting locations. The mariachi Shy Guys and some other touches were cool, I'll admit, but it's too little. The trailer shows some promise in this regard, but we've only seen what can be assumed to be the first location in the game, so all caution is needed.
I actually liked Sticker Star for what it was, but the flaws were too glaring (and I didn't even touch the story aspects and the lack of interesting characters!), and I don't feel like touching the same issues with a new coat of paint (ha!). I'm hopeful IS will get it right this time, since they usually make some damn good and interesting games.
...but hey, you never know