If you were the owner of a restaurant, and one of your busboys threw a fit, smashed some plates, then came up to you in front of both employees and customers alike and proclaimed he was literally going to murder you.. Would you send him home for the day or fire him?
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Paranautical Activity pulled from Steam after dev threatens Gabe Newell
- Thread starter JaseC
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If you were the owner of a restaurant, and one of your busboys threw a fit, smashed some plates, then came up to you in front of both employees and customers alike and proclaimed he was literally going to murder you.. Would you send him home for the day or fire him?
If he didn't make the threat we wouldn't have a 1,000+ post thread. Maybe a mention of an indie dev acting like a douche on twitter, but it would be business as usual for everyone. Valve doesn't terminate partnerships with devs for trivial reasons.
Haha, like I said, it'd be interesting!
Retrocore9
Banned
Valve did the right thing period. With all the threats that have been appearing over Twitter over the last month in the game community you'd think that this developer would have been careful about what he was going to tweet.
I think Kotick would just get kicked out without any of that taking down games stuff.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Expressing dissatisfaction over Twitter is fine and I can understand his frustrations over this particular issue.
But there is literally no need to make death threats. Obviously it wasn't serious in this case, but come on, be an adult. It completely eliminated any sympathy that he could have received.
If you cannot control your behaviour you have serious issues and probably should not be on Twitter.
But there is literally no need to make death threats. Obviously it wasn't serious in this case, but come on, be an adult. It completely eliminated any sympathy that he could have received.
If you cannot control your behaviour you have serious issues and probably should not be on Twitter.
You're right, given the fact that we're talking about companies of different sizes, I need to revise my hypothetical to imagine if Kotick and half of the controlling executive board came out together and publicly announced their plans to murder Gabe.
outunderthestars
Banned
So much this. Happy to see Valve taking a strong stance on the threatening of an empployee.
I will never understand why people with short fuses use social media. Seems like a recipe for disaster.
Turin Turambar
Member
Sometimes shouting "son of a whore!" doesn't mean that literally you believe he is the son of a prostitute. Same with "dude, I'm going to kill you! grr". Hyperbole exists, it's part of the language. It's taught in schools.
hobblygobbly
Member
Don't get me wrong, I think what he said was really stupid in context in a public relations/image sense, but to me it's that type of "empty/joke threat" like when you say to another friend "I'm going to kill dan" or whatever. Just the context and the manner it was constructed seems that way to me, but that's just not something you say when releasing a game at the time.
To me it seems more of a response to the public image and relation to what was said more so than it being an actual threat with any bearing. I mean, if it were, they wouldn't just be pulling the game but also contacting the police with more than sufficient information they have on him, which they haven't done, so it just seems like Valve's response to something stupid he said, rather than the meaning about what he said being taken seriously. Still, really stupid thing to do at an important time in your life and business.
To me it seems more of a response to the public image and relation to what was said more so than it being an actual threat with any bearing. I mean, if it were, they wouldn't just be pulling the game but also contacting the police with more than sufficient information they have on him, which they haven't done, so it just seems like Valve's response to something stupid he said, rather than the meaning about what he said being taken seriously. Still, really stupid thing to do at an important time in your life and business.
Woah, you considered context.
I'm going to take a moment to appreciate your common sense.
I mean, it really is simple. A more appropriate response would have been "Hey, dude, remove that tweet and apologize, or we will remove your game from our platform. We're trying to fix the issue with your game but don't start being an ass about it".
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
What's the point in speculating about scenarios that are extremely unlikely to happen?
So if an employee of yours started throwing a hissy fit and then threatened to murder you in public, in front of employees, customers, and the press.. You'd just say "lawls, hyperbole, no big deal guys!"
Regardless of whether he literally meant it, it's still unprofessional as shit and therefore means to end a business arrangement.
Also, "you son of a bitch" is a known and common figure of speech. "I'm going to murder you. You're going to die." Isn't really.
There's no real point outside of the humor involved in imagining an actual professional at a major corporation acting like a child in a similar way to the idiot mentioned in the original story.
I obviously don't think that it would ever actually happen. Someone else presented the hypothetical, I was just showing how ridiculous the actual circumstances would have to be in order to be equal to what this one dipshit did.
Gabe Newell isn't his friend.
"On your Twitter account today there were a series of messages where you expressed your frustration with Steam. We are generally comfortable with partners expressing this type of frustration or any other viewpoint directly with us or publicly through social media and the press. But one of your tweets this morning was a threat to kill one of our colleagues. Death threats cross a line. We have therefore decided to end our business relationship with you and Code Avarice."
"We've closed down your Steam admin accounts and we're removing the game from purchase on Steam. We will leave make Community Hub available so that existing customers will continue to have a place to discuss the game. Our understanding is that you're done developing the game, but if you need to ship an update to Steam customers, get in touch with us and we can help ship the update out for you."
It is fine to vent frustration, but probably not in a public meltdown like this. Whether or not his death threat was genuine isn't the point. Because:
1. They don't know this person as an individual and whether or not he is batshit crazy.
2. You still don't threaten people, that is a crime.
3. There is a clear difference between "Grr, I'm gonna kill valve for this!" and "I am going to kill gabe newell. He is going to die."
Regardless, it is entirely up to Valve to terminate whatever agreement they had with him. If this happened with someone working at large development studio no one would be shedding a tear if they lost their job. Just because the dude is independent doesn't mean should give him any extra privileges. If he wants to act unprofessionally then Valve has every right to end their business with him.
1. They don't know this person as an individual and whether or not he is batshit crazy.
2. You still don't threaten people, that is a crime.
3. There is a clear difference between "Grr, I'm gonna kill valve for this!" and "I am going to kill gabe newell. He is going to die."
Regardless, it is entirely up to Valve to terminate whatever agreement they had with him. If this happened with someone working at large development studio no one would be shedding a tear if they lost their job. Just because the dude is independent doesn't mean should give him any extra privileges. If he wants to act unprofessionally then Valve has every right to end their business with him.
scytheavatar
Member
That's why America as a country is in trouble; schools don't teach their kids it's not ok to send death threats to anyone. Let alone a retailer you are trying to do business with. What the hell are they teaching the kids in school anyway?
Oh, come on. Let's not be naive. Of course this guy never intended to actually seek out and murder GabeN. But "lol joke" is not an excuse, no matter how you look at it.
If you want to frame it as a solely professional relation, then no shit Sherlock you shouldn't be publicly raging like this. The fact that his game was still under the "Early Access" label when he "released" it (despite the fact that it was fixed very quickly) should have been taken as an honest mistake, not some sort of massive conspiracy that Valve created just to make him lose money. Be the better man, issue a public statement ("We've contacted Valve and we're trying to solve it ASAP! Hang in there, guys!" or something like that) and let the issue be resolved. But this clown was as unprofessional as you can be. If I were Valve, I wouldn't do business with him anymore either.
And even if you remove the professional side from this matter altogether this kind of behavior is unacceptable. Just look at all the controversies and horrible acts that are taking place in this industry right now and tell me that telling someone "I'm going to kill you" is not out of place, even if it's "just a joke". He should have known better, or at least he should have taken a few minutes off Twitter to try to calm himself. He chose not to do so and instead vent his rage online. Figure of speech or not, he said what he said and got a reaction from it. Whether it was what he wanted or completely the opposite, I don't know, but I suspect that this is not how he wanted to see everything unfolding in the end.
As an isolated tweet, sure. But the context is that several tweets were made before it about Valve mishandling his game. Within that context it is clearly not a legitimate death threat. In context it's more like: "I can't believe they screwed up with my game. I'm going to kill Valve's CEO for this. He's going to die."
It's a stupid tweet. It's just clearly not a legitimate threat.
Exactly.
If I'm playing Mario Kart at home on my couch with my friend, he laps me, and I jokingly say "I'm gonna fucking kill you" it means something a lot different than if I'm at work and a client I don't know at all accidentally messes up an order form, and I say the same sentence in front of customers and other clients.
scytheavatar
Member
Got this from reddit, how the 2 devs are douchebags even before the incident:
So we are 'Fuckheads' according the developer.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131148169957/
A message to the developers and consumers from another developer
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131253096380/
The Developers Postes Make Me Sick.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131619951630/
The developers pay me to be their friend AMA
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540740501505562125/#c540741131202161015
The Copyright Discussion Thread
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131988319225/
The arrogant scumbag attitude of the devs is sickening
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/522728814057941685/
Devs like you give "Early Access" a bad name.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131213928761/
Why are the devs removing threads?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131172106491/
So how can we help the developers "un-fuck" themselves?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/45350791392916712/
Is the developer a scumbag like the reviews say?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/45350791100609066/
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/613939294464503613/
Did people forget about this?
http://www.pcgamesn.com/indie/paran...mode-insist-roguelike-fps-not-being-abandoned
and this?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...allowed-past-greenlight-even-with-a-publisher
So we are 'Fuckheads' according the developer.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131148169957/
A message to the developers and consumers from another developer
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131253096380/
The Developers Postes Make Me Sick.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131619951630/
The developers pay me to be their friend AMA
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540740501505562125/#c540741131202161015
The Copyright Discussion Thread
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131988319225/
The arrogant scumbag attitude of the devs is sickening
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/522728814057941685/
Devs like you give "Early Access" a bad name.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131213928761/
Why are the devs removing threads?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/540741131172106491/
So how can we help the developers "un-fuck" themselves?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/45350791392916712/
Is the developer a scumbag like the reviews say?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/45350791100609066/
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250580/discussions/0/613939294464503613/
Did people forget about this?
http://www.pcgamesn.com/indie/paran...mode-insist-roguelike-fps-not-being-abandoned
and this?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...allowed-past-greenlight-even-with-a-publisher
It wasn't that kind of issue either. He was simply pissed that the game appeared as an "Early Access" title on the front page despite the 1.0 patch being pushed out. Early Access games sell less than finished titles in general. Although with the recent discovery update the front page is more irrevelant than ever.
Soodanim
Member
I will never understand the thought process.
Game's on Steam, finally a full release.
It mistakenly still says early access.
I'm angry about this.
How can I get this fixed?
I'll tweet.
Shall I tweet @valve?
Nah, generic will do.
What to say, what to say...
I'll say I'm gonna kill Gabe.
It's not like anyone misinterprets plain text just because they don't know me.
Okay I'm bored of that, but even if the first one was just people misinterpreting it (we've all said we're going to kill someone, and none of us meant it - it's just hyperbole). However. That second "He is going to die." is much more sinister looking/sounding and a public declaration can't not be taken seriously after a response to the first one.
Basically, dude's got issues. Valve is a business. Be professional. If you can't, that's not the game for you. Get someone else to deal with the business side or get a different job.
And I don't think Valve did anything wrong the first time, that was Adult Swim's fault. You can't expect Valve to say "Oh, they promised you no Greenlight at all? Well, we can't break their promise for them, go right ahead."
Game's on Steam, finally a full release.
It mistakenly still says early access.
I'm angry about this.
How can I get this fixed?
I'll tweet.
Shall I tweet @valve?
Nah, generic will do.
What to say, what to say...
I'll say I'm gonna kill Gabe.
It's not like anyone misinterprets plain text just because they don't know me.
Okay I'm bored of that, but even if the first one was just people misinterpreting it (we've all said we're going to kill someone, and none of us meant it - it's just hyperbole). However. That second "He is going to die." is much more sinister looking/sounding and a public declaration can't not be taken seriously after a response to the first one.
Basically, dude's got issues. Valve is a business. Be professional. If you can't, that's not the game for you. Get someone else to deal with the business side or get a different job.
And I don't think Valve did anything wrong the first time, that was Adult Swim's fault. You can't expect Valve to say "Oh, they promised you no Greenlight at all? Well, we can't break their promise for them, go right ahead."
hobblygobbly
Member
If they accepted the threat as serious and genuine and did this out of fear of being truthful, they would've contacted the police, considering they're even doing business with them. There is no indication of this happening so it's pretty evident they know very well that it's an empty threat and did what they did because of the situation the games industry has been in lately in regards to death threats. It's kind of clear Valve doesn't consider it a legitimate threat.
I'll eat my words if a case has been opened, but there's no indication of that yet. I mean, it's rather obvious it's a response to the developer being somewhat well known and saying something like that in context of what has been happening the past few months, rather than a response to the threat being genuine. They're punishing him for that, not the legitimacy of the threat. It's clear as day in context to what he said that it's not a legitimate threat, Valve knows that themselves.
I'm not excusing him and I think it was really dumb, but I don't know why some people think it's Valve's response to the legitimacy of the threat. Because I don't think it's that.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Isn't this the same game that adult swim wanted to publish but steam wouldn't let the developers do it because the game was on greenlight?
The tweets are way out of line but it's not shocking considering the past this studio has had with Valve.
The tweets are way out of line but it's not shocking considering the past this studio has had with Valve.
I posted that because Alienous stated he/she wondered how Valve would've reacted had it been another comment and not the death threat.
I don't think Valve or anyone is taking it seriously. We're mostly arguing a guy acted horribly professionally against, essentially, his boss and he got the boot.
Yes, people are usually never showing any sign disgruntlement before doing something rash. Even with your toning it down with "Valve's CEO" the "He's going to die" line takes it too far. Though I imagine even without Valve would still have removed his game. It is still their right, why would they put up with that?
If a larger dev did this they would be fired.
But this isn't the case here. This guy is half of the title that got removed from Steam and his partner is blaming people for turning him in rather than facing the fact that what his partner did was unacceptable.
Also no, it wasn't "pretty obvious". The comments were made by an angry person who was showing dislike for the company and the person he later threatened to kill. What's obvious is that these two guys lack basic common sense (and/or decency) to not make a threat on someone's life.
I don't know why it even matters if the guy was serious or not. If you made an angry rant towards your boss on Twitter and ended that rant with a threat that he will die because you are going to kill them, you can be expected to be fired. Joking or not, it's something that isn't acceptable. It's almost certain they wouldn't get the police involved, but you wouldn't just get a slap on the wrist. Too many threats of violence get ignored because of what you people are saying about "he obviously didn't mean it". It's better to be safe than sorry, especially since a death threat isn't something that just accidentally happens.
It's clear the guy has issues, getting so bent out of shape over a slight error and going on an angry rant and ending it with any kind of death threat. Maybe after this he will realize the anger issue he has and gets help for it. He's certainly going to need it.
Yes this is the same game. They were going to let Adult Swim take a 15% cut to avoid the headache of Greenlight and were told no.
After all the trouble they went through to get the game out as a full release on steam, to blow it from one rage tweet. Sad.
In terms of its shortness and curtness I read Valves response in GlaDos' voice
This argument that 'well Hur Hur Steam is too big, they should still let him sell it or he will fail in business' is bullshit. If he fails in business he has only his business manner to blame. If a teenager used the kind of language in front of a business audience, let alone TO a business audience, theyd be never given a foot in the door - which is ultimately a privilege not a right.
This argument that 'well Hur Hur Steam is too big, they should still let him sell it or he will fail in business' is bullshit. If he fails in business he has only his business manner to blame. If a teenager used the kind of language in front of a business audience, let alone TO a business audience, theyd be never given a foot in the door - which is ultimately a privilege not a right.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
The attitude that public figures should just accept that people will publicly 'joke' about murdering them is fucking disgusting and those of you backing up that behaviour rather than ostracising and punishing those who do it are every bit as pathetic.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Indies are being called upon to be entrepreneurs, business managers, and PR and Marketing people. It makes me sad to watch devs like this guy and Phil Fish crash and burn because their primary skill is game programming and development, and they are fucking up a secondary job. One that, like writing, everyone assumes they can do.
There is no alternative to decline to engage social media platforms, because although it is not true that any PR is good PR, it is indeed true that NO PR is, without a doubt, bad PR.
Lots of folks here quick to make judgments regarding the gentleman's PR skills, overall personality, etc. And I suppose he's earned all that. But this new world where indie game devs have to be good at PR reminds me of the way video killed the radio star.
I'm not sure this atmosphere will foster the best game makers any more than MTV fostered the best music makers. Shame.
There is no alternative to decline to engage social media platforms, because although it is not true that any PR is good PR, it is indeed true that NO PR is, without a doubt, bad PR.
Lots of folks here quick to make judgments regarding the gentleman's PR skills, overall personality, etc. And I suppose he's earned all that. But this new world where indie game devs have to be good at PR reminds me of the way video killed the radio star.
I'm not sure this atmosphere will foster the best game makers any more than MTV fostered the best music makers. Shame.
I'm just saying Steam should be broken up. Down with that robber baron Gabe.
justsomeguy
Member
#Gabergate
daninthemix
Member
An excellent reminder of the dangers of Twitter. People have literally destroyed their careers through a moment's carelessness.
And this is absolutely Valve's right, and if it is a monopoly that's because Steam is far better than any alternatives, certainly for customers and probably for most developers too.
And this is absolutely Valve's right, and if it is a monopoly that's because Steam is far better than any alternatives, certainly for customers and probably for most developers too.
KillerKlown
Banned
You have to be an idiot to continuously bitch about Valve/Steam and to publicly state you are going to murder Gabe Newell. How is this PR? This is some guy having a meltdown on twitter, not PR.
No, everyone who owns it keeps it.
And Valve is in a position where they don't need to sit and take abuse from devs, indie or otherwise. Good on them.
KillerKlown
Banned
How is steam acting like a *tard*. Are you saying it is ok for someone to say they are going to kill the head of Valve and just suck it up so they can get more money?
No, I am playing it right now.
And Steam did what they should have done. Fuck anyone that issues death threats.
It's really not that difficult. If you're angry then don't post on your PR channel. If you absolutely have to, then think long and hard about what you're saying. It would have been very easy for this guy to post a series of Tweets saying, "Valve is advertising PA as Early Access, but it's available to everyone right now" &. to help counter Valve's mistake until it's put right, which would do more for sales than angrily complaining about how terrible the main platform for his game is.
I'm going to take a moment to point out your lack of common sense.
This isn't about a viable threat. This is about a lack of professionalism in a business relationship that requires professionalism.
I'm shocked at how many people don't know what a monopoly is.
This.
Some saying 'well he isnt a professional PR person, just a developer' - Jesus Christ is basic fundamental honest to goodness common sense classified as PR now?
Nah, not really.
He should have criticized their complete incompetence in Customer Support. And just exaggerated the whole thing as a blot on Valve as a company caring nothing for their customer or partnered dev's. And used the Customer Support issue as the platform for that criticism, because like us, it effects dev's too. Talked about it in a professional and ethical way on Twitter. That kind of saber rattling might have actually gotten some real substantive conversations going, and put the pressure on Valve, like it should have been done years ago.
But instead...he acted out of emotion rather than calculation. Bad idea.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Some things are more important than money. Like principles, for example.
This is not PR. It doesn't take a genius or even a college or even a high school education to know that you don't threaten to kill people. There is no mandate when you become a developer that makes you have to respond to idiot people. There is no mandate when you become a developer that makes you have to self destruct on twitter.
Why are there a subset of people who want to pretend these twitter meltdowns are accidents when it takes actual effort to take your phone...type the ish out and then hit send.
Being a game developer doesn't entitle you to be a dumbass in other aspects of life. We have plenty of devs, famous devs who handle themselves just fine on twitter. They go through worse BS than this guy did and you don't see them threatening people when something happens.
You don't have to be good at PR....you just don't have to be a complete idiot. Stop coddling these people because they couldn't manage the latter.
Entirely irrelevant.
"Legitimate" or not, it's not something you do. Period.
He is paying the price for being a gigantic asshole publicly. He's not five years old, he should know better.
There's no need to coddle or apologize for him.
Valve did the right thing.