I think it's more just his info is out of date. Every class in Diablo 3 is overpowered right now to some degree, especially if you're not trying to push super high greater rifts. Game is easy as hell to play casually now even on the highest difficulty.
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Patches the nerf overpowered weapons in single player....why?
- Thread starter JohnnyFootball
- Start date
I think it's more just his info is out of date. Every class in Diablo 3 is overpowered right now to some degree, especially if you're not trying to push super high greater rifts. Game is easy as hell to play casually now even on the highest difficulty.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I see a lot a of people mentioning Destiny, but that isn't a good comparison since Destiny has a competitive multiplayer mode.
That never happens.
Stallion Dan
Member
This doesn't even make sense.
If they will never try another loadout, what are they farming for?
They obviously do want other options, hence the farming. Just because an I-win button doesn't mean always want to use it.
Of course it does. Go play RE5 online, very few people running around blasting everything with the infinite RPG.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
LOL, yeah you do bring up a good point. If you already have the best gear why are you farming?
I mean I certainly wouldn't be going after raid bosses if there was no reward for doing so.
60EffPeeEss
Member
Well the Destiny devs have a very established motive for removing cheese. Its to keep you entranced and into the game until the next expansion happens, otherwise you have no motive to keep it in memory and pay for the expansion.
Well, if it is extremely egregious, then I understand having to balance it down a bit. However, I rarely see examples of extremely OP stuff, as it's more often than not just a weapon with an obvious advantage.
I remember Jeff talking about a Titanfall nerf. He had an auto rifle that kill in a certain amount of hits. They nerfed it, and now it took 1 more hit to kill people. It broke the experience for him. Only 1 bullet nerf, but suddenly the game felt so off for him. Instead, all other weapons should have been slightly boosted.
Mihos
Gold Member
Overpowered weapons is the only reason I would do crap like the god aweful chocobo race and lightning dodging in FFX. For online competitive stuff, I get it... I really do... but single player falls into the 'fix your crap before shipping it' category.
The biggest thing I hate about our digital present is that a game company can reach into my home and take something away from me.... like the youtube app on my vita.
The biggest thing I hate about our digital present is that a game company can reach into my home and take something away from me.... like the youtube app on my vita.
Basileus777
Member
Poor balance can break design and ruin difficulty in a single-player game too, and I don't find that fun in many games. I have no problem with patching single player games to fix balance problems. Hell, there are games I wish had been patched.
Same. I like the nerfs usually as a broken overpowered weapon takes away any challenge of the game. And maybe I really like using that weapon for other reasons but wish it wasnt so game breaking so I want the nerf.
I'm all about well balanced games and OP weapons that are usually not intended to be so break that. Might as well just play every game in god mode if you want to keep that stuff in.
daninthemix
Member
I have often wondered whether most developers are actually neurotic control freaks who enter game development to try and feel empowered.
Hero Prinny
Member
I hate it when they nerf weapons in single player games. They're fun.
This doesn't actually work and it's one of the dumbest suggestions people make.
Take the old CZ-75 in CS:GO as an example. That gun was beyond OP, a $500 pistol better than a $2700 AK47, $3100 M4A4/1 and even better than a $4750 AWP. It turned people into superstar players that weren't actually that good (hi JW)
If Valve would have just buffed everything to be on equal level with the CZ it would make CoD look like a bullet sponge game, not to mention all the other issues with that gun.
You can use this for any game in existence that has ever had an OP weapon.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
While it's not exclusively a single player game the first thing that came to mind was when Blizzard nerfed shard of hate in diablo 3 RoS.
I went from this lightning vomiting monstrosity.
To a wet noodle that barely spit out lightning at all.
Totally gutted.
It was a frustrating nerf too, because they said it was a bug fix, which as they explained it seemed to be totally correct but it didn't feel like a bug, people just thought it was an awesome proc. The reason it was enraging was because of the lucky few that got the weapon when they saw the lightning proc in action wanted to build a set around it. So many people (like me) wasted a good 2-3 weeks getting all the possible lightning damage increase gear to make the most out of this thing.
Then blizzard says "LOL IT WAS A BUG SORRY" and suddenly our efforts felt wasted. I couldn't play diablo 3 for much longer after that. If blizzard had just QAed their weapons properly I wouldn't have wasted my time with this.
There are reasons to nerf overpowered weapons in single player games though, if they completely ruin the game, or allow you to bypass things effortlessly then it's not good to have around for your games balance. But I think the key thing is a perception issue, you risk people thinking the weapon is required instead of just another viable option.
Less options = less fun.
OP weapons should always be relegated to secret unlockables, or rewards for finishing the game. Like RE4's tommy gun or laser weapon.
I went from this lightning vomiting monstrosity.
To a wet noodle that barely spit out lightning at all.
Totally gutted.
It was a frustrating nerf too, because they said it was a bug fix, which as they explained it seemed to be totally correct but it didn't feel like a bug, people just thought it was an awesome proc. The reason it was enraging was because of the lucky few that got the weapon when they saw the lightning proc in action wanted to build a set around it. So many people (like me) wasted a good 2-3 weeks getting all the possible lightning damage increase gear to make the most out of this thing.
Then blizzard says "LOL IT WAS A BUG SORRY" and suddenly our efforts felt wasted. I couldn't play diablo 3 for much longer after that. If blizzard had just QAed their weapons properly I wouldn't have wasted my time with this.
There are reasons to nerf overpowered weapons in single player games though, if they completely ruin the game, or allow you to bypass things effortlessly then it's not good to have around for your games balance. But I think the key thing is a perception issue, you risk people thinking the weapon is required instead of just another viable option.
Less options = less fun.
OP weapons should always be relegated to secret unlockables, or rewards for finishing the game. Like RE4's tommy gun or laser weapon.
For some reason the "fix" to the warping mechanic of Aetheon in Destiny pissed be off way more than any weapon Nerf ever has. It was like a slap in the face and just added an artificial difficulty to the encounter that was compounded by the infuriating glitches with the mechanic. That was what made me drop Destiny.
TLDR: weapon nerfs suck but artificial pointless post release difficulty bumps are worse
TLDR: weapon nerfs suck but artificial pointless post release difficulty bumps are worse
sixteen-bit
Member
gotta make those trophies feel more exclusive
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
How dare they.
Riposte
Member
"Dictating how the game is played" is game design. They began with a set of game creation tools that had "endless" freedom then constrained it down to a design they wanted the player to experience.
They "nerf" (balance) weapons and so many other things for the same reason an artist paints a spot a certain color or a director focuses on a particular scene. You just don't have any respect for the art of game design. Which is fine, you are a player of a certain amount of awareness. You don't design the games. All the more necessary that developers balance their games so players don't spoil themselves. A player's instincts run parallel of that of a designer's. (Which is why suggesting the player balance the game they are playing is even more ridiculous.)
They "nerf" (balance) weapons and so many other things for the same reason an artist paints a spot a certain color or a director focuses on a particular scene. You just don't have any respect for the art of game design. Which is fine, you are a player of a certain amount of awareness. You don't design the games. All the more necessary that developers balance their games so players don't spoil themselves. A player's instincts run parallel of that of a designer's. (Which is why suggesting the player balance the game they are playing is even more ridiculous.)
My opinion is not bullcrap. yours is, because I feel a different way than you.....lets call each other names!
Your opinion is definitely valid. I personally don't feel the same way however.
Historically most pieces of entertainment follow the 3 act structure which is why there is an accomplishment within them. The chief way to have accomplishment is to have challenge.
Video Games (the only medium where you control/are the protagonist I may add) are a very young medium, they are getting better at presenting a non challenging and rewarding gaming experience all the time. However when someone creates a game they have in mind a specific antithesis and how that thing (world, enemies, antagonist) will react to the player/protagonist. If there is an item that causes the challenge of the games things moot, they want to change it so that the game is once again what is was supposed to be in the first place.
An Example : I played Morrowind back in the day and there was a cloak I found. I don't remember the name, however, but it had a typo in the amount of healing it would automatically do every tick. It was so powerful I couldn't even drown underwater. Enemies were my playthings and ultimately I never beat the game. It was like turning on cheats in GTA and getting a 5 star rating. No challenge eventually becomes boring. Who continues to play games that are boring? It was not as it was intended to be, so they fixed the item in a patch because it broke the game causing the intended experience to be sullied. That is why they take out broken over powered items out of games.
Many games put in over powered items to play on a game + and I think this is the best way to handle over powered items. You experienced the game we intended, now here is a plaything to F shit up!
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Problem is the game is very co-op centric
It's really Co-Op >>>> SP >>>>>>>>> MP in that regards when it comes to Destiny
No one buys Destiny for the MP, it seriously feels like an add-on, if it wasn't there to begin with, it wouldn't be that much of a loss
Thing is weapons have been nerfed for MP, which also hurt Co-Op/SP too, because sometime the weapon is needed to be OP for the bullet sponges of Co-Op/SP yet MP gets to call the shots, which is pointless
BabyFaceKillah
Member
Cuz everybody complains about them.
I agree with this.
That said in every Resident Evil game whenever I unlock those weapons I use them for about 10 mins get bored of how trivial it makes the game and just play without them again. Weapon balance is just as important in single player as it is in multi.
I like playing a sniper build in the newer Fallout games, but the Hunting and Sniper Rifles were just so overpowered in Fallout: New Vegas that they removed a lot of the challenge from the game. That play style is more fun when the game is balanced such that you need to score a headshot from stealth to kill an enemy - that requires skill, patience, and timing. When the weapon is so powerful that a non-stealth shot to the abdomen will kill the target before they can get close to you, there is no skill involved. And when you can one-shot a Deathclaw, the game loses a lot of tension.
They actually had to nerf those guns multiple times to get them down to something reasonable, but future replays will be more fun for it.
They actually had to nerf those guns multiple times to get them down to something reasonable, but future replays will be more fun for it.
It is a rather shite outlook, on their part.
But I simply refuse to update if they take such a shitty stance.
Fuck 'em - I'll do what I want, with the products I purchase.
60EffPeeEss
Member
And they'll do what they want with the product they create.
Diablohead
Member
the carbine is and was ten times stronger then every other auto weapon in titanfall until they dropped it a peg, it's the call of duty laser gun which kills snipers across the map easier then a sniper rifle does.
Mihos
Gold Member
See, now your implying there was no transfer of ownership. This must be some generational thing that I am too old to understand.
They own the game, you own a copy of it. Of course they can fix and rebalance it in any way they see fit. And you have a right to not install the patches.
how in the world are we talking about power level in the abstract? its as if games should not be designed to be played. if there is a more powerful, then everything should be it? why adjust single player? because games can be designed to be good, and unintentional game breakers might not be part of that goodness!
sure, you dont want players to feel robbed in the adjustment, and games should be finished before release... but there are certainly reasons.
sure, you dont want players to feel robbed in the adjustment, and games should be finished before release... but there are certainly reasons.
Prime crotch
Banned
Each case is a case, but they could increase reasonably the other weapons so they bring more options into the playing field. The thing is, what one day is seen as a OP strategy can be debunked as merely a crutch once more information is in the player's hand. But those things come with investiment on a particular version, which constant patching ruins.
Lol.
It is a little hard to fuck me over, when I refuse to allow it, by turning off auto-update, and refusing to patch.
But keep on cheer-leading bad devs. I'll keep on 10:0-ing them.
Yeah I've got it where torment VI is pretty easy. Playing on greater rifts beyond 25 however...
I am a strong believer that OP weapons are much more fun than boring, balanced ones - especially in single player. It's definitely devs saying #nofunallowed. Prototype was great for a power fantasy game.
Damn PVP ruining weapons for PVE. If Bungie separated the two properly we would still have the destroyer of gods knows as the Vex Mythoclast
Damn PVP ruining weapons for PVE. If Bungie separated the two properly we would still have the destroyer of gods knows as the Vex Mythoclast
I would argue that buying into a game is, by its very nature, volunteering to have your enjoyment handled by the designers, and accepting their restrictions, because the restrictions define the game.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I am a strong believer that OP weapons are much more fun than boring, balanced ones - especially in single player. It's definitely devs saying #nofunallowed. Prototype was great for a power fantasy game.
Damn PVP ruining weapons for PVE. If Bungie separated the two properly we would still have the destroyer of gods knows as the Vex Mythoclast
I just hope the buzzsaw from Farcry 4 does not get nerfed.
Major anger if that happens.
I disagree. I rarely play multiplayer, so yes i care if there's something broken in my single player campaign.
DA:I for example, Flask of Fire + Thousand Cuts is bugged and they still haven't fixed that.
The game went from nice and challenging (on nightmare) to completely ridiculous easy.
DA:I for example, Flask of Fire + Thousand Cuts is bugged and they still haven't fixed that.
The game went from nice and challenging (on nightmare) to completely ridiculous easy.
PensivePen
Member
Because they've designed the game to provide a certain level of challenge, and the weapon/item/ability in question is an oversight that interferes with that design.
I think if something is obviously overpowered and is simple or easy enough to do that it might be seen commonly over the course of a normal run of the game then it's probably best to nerf it. But stuff that's obscure is better left in the game.
I think if something is obviously overpowered and is simple or easy enough to do that it might be seen commonly over the course of a normal run of the game then it's probably best to nerf it. But stuff that's obscure is better left in the game.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Keep fighting the good fight.
Then at that point the developer needs to make a decision based on:
1. What are the mechanics of your game
2. Does the weapon/tactic in question make those mechanics irrelevant
Something that's a crutch is Ken when vanilla SF4 launched. Most casual players hate blocking so someone using Ken got easy wins. Was he overpowered? No. That's the fault of the players and their lack of knowledge. This can apply to both single and multiplayer.
Another problem people have is not being able to differentiate between OP and just being a great tactic/strong weapon which I think leads to developers making bad calls based on what some fans say.
in the end, buffing everything else is never a viable solution. Either it's OP and needs to be nerfed or it's not OP and people are just too lazy to figure out a counter to it. In neither scenario does buffing everything else help. In the first, you're intentionally breaking your game and in the second, you're potentially adding something that could be OP by an unnecessary buff.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I don't understand how a developer can work for years on a game, it comes out, a weapon completely throws off the balance and thusly challenge of the game, and then people demand that it stays the way it is. A majority of people, I guarantee you, are going to ruin their fun.You might say that you can just not use the OP weapon for people that want to do that, but that's not how it works; most people are compelled to use it because it's available to them.
In the end, it's the developers game. This isn't tag on the playground or monopoly at home where you can make all of your own house rules to make your own fun. If you want to have a SP experience where you can just blow your way through the game with weapons that you purposely mis-balanced, have fun. Hint: that's not the game anyone ever sets out to make and in the end is not fun.
In the end, it's the developers game. This isn't tag on the playground or monopoly at home where you can make all of your own house rules to make your own fun. If you want to have a SP experience where you can just blow your way through the game with weapons that you purposely mis-balanced, have fun. Hint: that's not the game anyone ever sets out to make and in the end is not fun.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Peléo;149512586 said:
Then don't use it....
Hideous Snake
Gold Member
OP weapons = finishing the game easier and faster