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[JinjoUnchained]

*Searched for an Off Topic community for these kinds of requests and came up dry. Mods please lock if I missed it and I'll post there instead.

Here's my situation: I've been creaking by with a 7 year old MacBook Pro at home for years, mostly for media/web browsing/Garage Band and some professional development (took some courses in R, XCode, and ASP.Net using VM Ware Fusion). I'm not a CS major or engineer, but I've programmed since I was a kid and my job in corporate finance has evolved over the years where it's now probably 80/20 between programming/business; mostly scripting with SQL, SSIS, VBA, and some basic Windows Form development with Visual Studio and C#/LINQ, all on a company HP EliteBook 8570.

So automating Accounts Payable and tying out different SQL servers is fine and all, but I'm ready to develop further beyond the things I'm allowed to do on my work PC. Hence, I'm shopping for a powerful, but cost-effective laptop for the first time and am a bit lost!

Here's are my main interests and what I need the laptop to handle well:

• Data science (both traditional stand-alone and big data/cloud architectures)
• Analyzing web data (with Python or something similar) and web programming
• Software development (C++ and/or Java)
• Messing about with computer graphics (e.g. Maya) and programming (i.e. Unity); lower priority.

Here are my desired features:

• Modern two-in-one functionality with a traditional PC side and a Windows 8 touch screen side (doesn't have to be all slick like a Yoga Pro, just highly functional)
• Decent media performance and streaming (don't need more than 1366/768 resolution on 15.6'' screen)
• Ability to play indie/older games on at least medium settings with decent performance.
• Form factor is not that important, rather get more computer than a slicker build for the same price.
• Sub $1000 price range

Best option I've seen in my local Best Buy is this Lenovo EDGE 15. Spec-wise and feature-wise it looks good, but it's not even on Lenovo's site anymore and customers on BB have complained about bad Wi-Fi. Not sure if they're idiots or if the complaints are legit, or if I should be looking at something else.

Anyone here have a similar situation and can share a recommendation?

TLDR: Need a good PC laptop for under $1,000 for professional development in data science/web data/software development. Ignorant about such things because I've stubbornly clung to my MacBook for too long. Decent performance for two-in-one tablet functionality, media, and medium sized gaming are appreciated. Help!

 

[Konka]

Here you go.

 

[Jado]

Here you go.

Why don't you try reading the OP?

I would look around for Surface 3 configs under $1000. Some really nice ones occasionally go on sale for around $800.

 

[terrisus]

*Searched for an Off Topic community for these kinds of requests and came up dry. Mods please lock if I missed it and I'll post there instead.

It's on gaming-side, but it's still the catch-all Laptop Recommendation/Find Me a Laptop thread

 

[entremet]

Try this website:

wirecutter.com

It has you covered.

 

[terrisus]

Here you go.

[Oh, hey, look - a Mac!]

I honestly don't know if people are even serious about this stuff half the time.

Since, if a thread is requesting a laptop, no matter what the thread/title is, what the OP is looking for, etc...
There are always people in it who are like "Hey, buy this Mac!"

 

[Yoda]

I honestly don't know if people are even serious about this stuff half the time.

Since, if a thread is requesting a laptop, no matter what the thread/title is, what the OP is looking for, etc...
There are always people in it who are like "Hey, buy this Mac!"

Well if you are already acclimated with OSX for your daily needs you can't easily get that on a PC. But any Mac can easily boot into windows with a partition + bootcamp and run just as well as a laptop w/equivalent specs.

OP if you decide to buy a new laptop now all the models are going to get refresh early next yearish as broadwell is suppose to launch in Q4. This holds true for macs also so if you can wait a bit that would be the best course of action. As far as Windows only laptops go I've had decent experience with the Samsung Ativ series are extremely well built and have solid specs for most models.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Why don't you try reading the OP?

I would look around for Surface 3 configs under $1000. Some really nice ones occasionally go on sale for around $800.

I'd love to get a Surface Pro, but are there any with > 12" display? I'd have trouble using it as a desktop for long sessions. Also, seems only the ones with weaker CPUs are sub $1000, but like you said, there can be deals.

It's on gaming-side, but it's still the catch-all Laptop Recommendation/Find Me a Laptop thread

Subbed, thanks!

Try this website:

wirecutter.com

It has you covered.

Never knew about this, I'm going through it now. Thanks entrement!

 

[dhlt25]

I'm a PC guy but tbh Mac Book is the best laptop that you can buy. With the new price on the mac book pro, you can get a refurbished that is actually priced better than equivalent PC counter part. Also programming is much better on the Mac OS because it's unix based

 

[JinjoUnchained]

I'm a PC guy but tbh Mac Book is the best laptop that you can buy. With the new price on the mac book pro, you can get a refurbished that is actually priced better than equivalent PC counter part. Also programming is much better on the Mac OS because it's unix based

I had a similar setup for years and had some issues. For one, I tried both Boot Camp and VMWare Fusion and had problems with both. Switching OS', or slower performance from running two OS', not having my windows shortcuts, system clocks getting out of sync, difficulty finding compatible peripherals that behaved more like a PC; it all just made me said "screw it, I'll just get a PC and maybe an iPad Air next year". Perhaps I was being impatient, but the parallel machine setup was clunky for me.

 

[Konka]

I had a similar setup for years and had some issues. For one, I tried both Boot Camp and VMWare Fusion and had problems with both. Switching OS', or slower performance from running two OS', not having my windows shortcuts, system clocks getting out of sync, difficulty finding compatible peripherals that behaved more like a PC; it all just made me said "screw it, I'll just get a PC and maybe an iPad Air next year". Perhaps I was being impatient, but the parallel machine setup was clunky for me.

Bro, you can jump for a PC but what you are going to get is a less well put together machine with worse customer service and a lower build quality on your machine. You can do whatever, but thats how it is.

 

[terrisus]

But any Mac can easily boot into windows with a partition + bootcamp and run just as well as a laptop w/equivalent specs.

Which is fine if money is no object, and you don't mind being gouged to get that.

For most people - like the OP - money is a consideration.

 

[terrisus]

Subbed, thanks!

No problem, glad to help.
K.Jack is a great guy, and there are a bunch of other helpful people there too.

 

[Jado]

I'd love to get a Surface Pro, but are there any with > 12" display? I'd have trouble using it as a desktop for long sessions. Also, seems only the ones with weaker CPUs are sub $1000, but like you said, there can be deals.

Subbed, thanks!

Never knew about this, I'm going through it now. Thanks entrement!

Deal is already dead, but Amazon had it on sale earlier this week. I think the $899 would be up your alley.

i3/64GB = $799
i5/128GB = $899
i5/256GB = $1199
i7/256GB = $1399
i7/512GB = $1799

No, but there is a desktop solution: get a large, quality monitor and hook up the Surface when you're home. Bigger screen, more screen space. This is honestly better than getting an unnecessarily large and heavy laptop, but obviously it's up to you and your needs. One main issue with the Surface is "lapability," which is better than prior models but still not up to par with traditional laptops and hybrids that physically snap together.

 

[moka]

I just got a Lenovo G710 for £500 on eBay. Refurbished but condition seems to be like-new.

• 17 inches
• Intel i7 2.4 GHz 4 Core
• 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM
• 1 TB HDD
• Nvidia DDR3 SDRAM 2 GB

Loving it so far.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Bro, you can jump for a PC but what you are going to get is a less well put together machine with worse customer service and a lower build quality on your machine. You can do whatever, but thats how it is.

I hear ya', Konka. I don't want to turn this into a PC vs. Mac thing, I've enjoyed my MacBook for years: very reliable, good performance, well put together, great for media/art/music. Thing is I'm on a lower budget and I'm used to professional computing on a PC and I don't care for OS in terms of professional computing. Maybe I'm wrong and it's better optimized for work it if you use it a certain way, but I much prefer the PC version of Office and PC keyboard/mouses.

 

[Yoda]

Which is fine if money is no object, and you don't mind being gouged to get that.

For most people - like the OP - money is a consideration.

That isn't really getting gouged. If you want to still have OSX that isn't crap like a hackintosh build you will need a piece of apple hardware to do so. Buying a copy of Windows 8.1 would be approx $100~. Compare that to maybe buying the cheapest Mac Mini which would be $500~. If gives you the ability to use both operating systems without any crazy workarounds and you get a very solid piece of hardware. Might I add said hardware also looks very nice compared to almost any other laptop.

 

[Beerman462]

That isn't really getting gouged. If you want to still have OSX that isn't crap like a hackintosh build you will need a piece of apple hardware to do so. Buying a copy of Windows 8.1 would be approx $100~. Compare that to maybe buying the cheapest Mac Mini which would be $500~. If gives you the ability to use both operating systems without any crazy workarounds and you get a very solid piece of hardware. Might I add said hardware also looks very nice compared to almost any other laptop.

A $500 Mac mini with Windows. That's $600 for a really shitty PC.

 

[Fusebox]

I love my PC desktops but there's no way I'd downgrade my Mac laptop for a Windows laptop. OP is gonna be in for some pain.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

I just got a Lenovo G710 for £500 on eBay. Refurbished but condition seems to be like-new.

• 17 inches
• Intel i7 2.4 GHz 4 Core
• 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM
• 1 TB HDD
• Nvidia DDR3 SDRAM 2 GB

Loving it so far.

This is why I initially started looking at Lenovo's, as they are the only laptop I've regularly found with an i7 processor and 13"+ screen in my price range. Everything looks good on paper, but I've heard different things in user comment sections. Seems like it's worked well for you.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I've got some good resources and recommendations. Per terrisus' suggestion, I'll move this question over to the Gaming Laptop thread, as that seems to be where most of these discussion reside.

Thanks again.

 

[moka]

This is why I initially started looking at Lenovo's, as they are the only laptop I've regularly found with an i7 processor and 13"+ screen in my price range. Everything looks good on paper, but I've heard different things in user comment sections. Seems like it's worked well for you.

IDK what you've heard but yeah, it's a solid laptop in terms of build quality, looks, performance and certainly price.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Well, we're on the verge of Broadwell, and the 14nm is a big deal, so you might want to wait a few more months for these to hit. It seems like they are significant!

Alienware 13 -

1) comes with a ULV i7 processor

2) if you op for a little more money you can get the touch display. First Alienware with touch!

3) Has a graphics 860m graphics chip. Very capable graphics.

4) Alienware are known for building rigid and durable laptops. Great keyboards. Coming from a Mac, what you're gonna hate the most about the Acer, Toshiba, and so on is the bad materials. Even the great ones like Asus and Lenovo tend to have some glarring omissions that Apple usually nails - either a flexing keyboard, subpar trackpad, terrible viewing angles on the monitor, abysmal sound, poor trackpad placement, poor key travel, bad temperatures. Some of free of almost all of these problems, but they cost a lot more. The Asus Zenbooks are almost twice the budget you have, so its not an option! Many of the vendors have good high priced laptops - Even HP. But their budget ranges are often terrible.


5) Dual fan design, cooling the CPU and GPU seperately across a copper spredder. I'm not sure but the design looks similar to the way they cool Retina MBPs.
The dual cooling ensures no throttling, longer lifespan. You don't want a laptop with shoddy cooling. It's just not worth it.

6) The form factor is a mobile 13'' and can easily be carried around all day at around 2 pounds, and hooked to a monitor. you really want to do that for work efficency. any monitor or HDTV is better than a 13-15 inch screen.


7) To really future proof yourself, down the road, get the graphics amplifier. An accessory which lets you connect external graphics. to your Alienware. Basically you take a computer graphics card, put it into the amplifier and then the notebook has desktop class graphics performance. the potential of thunderbolt is being realized! the tech is 300 USD for the amplifiers and you would need a powerful GPU, but this stuff could really future proof your machine down the road if you want to have the mobility to drag this thing around without it being a burden, and yet being able to put it on your study/work/home desk, connect it to an amplifier and a monitor and go to town. I would be much happier with playing around with things like Maya if I could take some of the pressure of heat of the internal GPU, even as power efficent as the 860m is.


8) Alienware 13 has updates looming over the next 2-6 months with both new maxwell graphics and broadwell cpus. the tech in these models is basically a year old. it's weird that they are launching this product now. they must have to get rid of the stock.
An alternative to AW13 is the Razer Blade 14 - a marvel of engineering, and it would be exactly what you are looking for, if only it wasnt super expensive, and gets extremely hot while gaming.





GOOD LUCK MATEY!

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Alienware 13 -

1) comes with a ULV i7 processor

2) if you op for a little more money you can get the touch display. First Alienware with touch!

3) Has a graphics 860m graphics chip. Very capable graphics.

4) Alienware are known for building rigid and durable laptops. Great keyboards. Coming from a Mac, what you're gonna hate the most about the Acer, Toshiba, and so on is the bad materials. Even the great ones like Asus and Lenovo tend to have some glarring omissions that Apple usually nails - either a flexing keyboard, subpar trackpad, terrible viewing angles on the monitor, abysmal sound, poor trackpad placement, poor key travel, bad temperatures. Some of free of almost all of these problems, but they cost a lot more. The Asus Zenbooks are almost twice the budget you have, so its not an option! Many of the vendors have good high priced laptops - Even HP. But their budget ranges are often terrible.


5) Dual fan design, cooling the CPU and GPU seperately across a copper spredder. I'm not sure but the design looks similar to the way they cool Retina MBPs.
The dual cooling ensures no throttling, longer lifespan. You don't want a laptop with shoddy cooling. It's just not worth it.

6) The form factor is a mobile 13'' and can easily be carried around all day at around 2 pounds, and hooked to a monitor. you really want to do that for work efficency. any monitor or HDTV is better than a 13-15 inch screen.


7) To really future proof yourself, down the road, get the graphics amplifier. An accessory which lets you connect external graphics. to your Alienware. Basically you take a computer graphics card, put it into the amplifier and then the notebook has desktop class graphics performance. the potential of thunderbolt is being realized! the tech is 300 USD for the amplifiers and you would need a powerful GPU, but this stuff could really future proof your machine down the road if you want to have the mobility to drag this thing around without it being a burden, and yet being able to put it on your study/work/home desk, connect it to an amplifier and a monitor and go to town. I would be much happier with playing around with things like Maya if I could take some of the pressure of heat of the internal GPU, even as power efficent as the 860m is.


8) Alienware 13 has updates looming over the next 2-6 months with both new maxwell graphics and broadwell cpus. the tech in these models is basically a year old. it's weird that they are launching this product now. they must have to get rid of the stock.
An alternative to AW13 is the Razer Blade 14 - a marvel of engineering, and it would be exactly what you are looking for, if only it wasnt super expensive, and gets extremely hot while gaming.





GOOD LUCK MATEY!

Thanks mate! I'll add AW 13 to my potential list, the amplifier is good if I wanted to run more powerful games down the line.

 

[MoodyFog]

Here you go.

Hehehehe

 

[Thraktor]

Generally speaking I'd recommend getting a Macbook and using Boot Camp (which I've never had issues with, although Parallels/Fusion are a different matter entirely).

If you just want a pure Windows machine, though, Lenovo have been the best in my experience taking into account performance/form factor/reliability/build quality. Not quite up there with Apple, but generally good for the money. I'd also heavily recommend getting a machine with an SSD instead of a mechanical hard-drive; it will do much more to improve the day-to-day performance of the laptop than a faster processor or more RAM in most cases.

 

[Wiktor]

Why don't you try reading the OP?
0.

Steve Jobs once said that people don't read anymore, so expecting Mac fanboy to read the OP is foolish

 

[MoodyFog]

Steve Jobs once said that people don't read anymore, so expecting Mac fanboy to read the OP is foolish

Plus Steve Jobs once said that people don't read anymore, so expecting Mac fanboy to read the OP is foolish

 

[n64coder]

If you just want a pure Windows machine, though, Lenovo have been the best in my experience taking into account performance/form factor/reliability/build quality. Not quite up there with Apple, but generally good for the money. I'd also heavily recommend getting a machine with an SSD instead of a mechanical hard-drive;

When looking at a laptop, be sure to stay away from models that do not have the trackpad centered below the home row. I have a high end Sony Vaio model from 3 years ago and I'm unhappy with the trackpad. It forces me to elevate my right hand to avoid touching the trackpad because it's centered on the laptop, not the home row. The laptop has the number pad on the right side of the keyboard.

I'm not also a fan of switchable graphics unless you're dead set on being able to play games. I would just stick with Intel based GPU. My laptop has an AMD GPU as well as Intel and it switches between the two depending on the power settings. The AMD driver was occasionally crashing for awhile but it seems to have not done that for a few months so maybe the problem has gone away.

I have an i7 in my laptop and sometimes it feels slow. Looking at the task manager, it's because of the disk so I really recommend getting an SSD so that it's faster. Otherwise, the laptop drive is usually slower in order to generate less heat and to conserve battery life.

I have a work colleague who has a Lenovo laptop and it seems impressive to me from a build quality and functionality. Dells also seem pretty good to me. My wife/kids all have low end Dells and they have worked solidly for years.

 

[Bomber Bob]

Here you go.

People that don't read OP should be instabanned

 

[n64coder]

I'm a PC guy but tbh Mac Book is the best laptop that you can buy. With the new price on the mac book pro, you can get a refurbished that is actually priced better than equivalent PC counter part. Also programming is much better on the Mac OS because it's unix based

Can you go into more details on why programming is better on the mac?

I'm a programmer who uses Unix (linux, solaris, aix, hpux) and Windows all the time. Personally, I like Windows better because Visual Studio debugger is easier to use. I agree that writing bat files is not as powerful as bash scripts but I tend to use perl/python for any serious stuff. I can always install Cygwin if I want the bash functionality on Windows.

 

[SYNTAX182]

Any laptop is better than a Mac.

 

[Water]

Generally speaking I'd recommend getting a Macbook and using Boot Camp (which I've never had issues with, although Parallels/Fusion are a different matter entirely).

I don't recommend that. I've gotten far more crashes, freezes and input trouble (eg. the hardware control keys such as volume) with my Macbook Air in Bootcamp mode than I've had with the same machine in OS X and with non-Mac machines running Windows. Some of the biggest usual benefits of the Mac laptops, battery life and trackpad, are wiped out. The drivers Apple supplies are not good enough - the trackpad in Windows mode doesn't match good Windows trackpads. Additionally, since there's no physical 2nd or 3rd mouse buttons or proper options for scrollwheel emulation, many operations are painful or impossible without external mouse. Not what you want for Unity game development or 3D modeling in Windows. (OS X version of Unity is usable without multiple mouse buttons due to modifier keys.)

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Possibly dumb question here. I've heard a few comments about broadwell processors coming soon. Will broadwell based laptops be in my price range? They seem more limited and high end, as of now.

I don't recommend that. I've gotten far more crashes, freezes and input trouble (eg. the hardware control keys such as volume) with my Macbook Air in Bootcamp mode than I've had with the same machine in OS X and with non-Mac machines running Windows. Some of the biggest usual benefits of the Mac laptops, battery life and trackpad, are wiped out. The drivers Apple supplies are not good enough - the trackpad in Windows mode doesn't match good Windows trackpads. Additionally, since there's no physical 2nd or 3rd mouse buttons or proper options for scrollwheel emulation, many operations are painful or impossible without external mouse. Not what you want for Unity game development or 3D modeling in Windows. (OS X version of Unity is usable without multiple mouse buttons due to modifier keys.)

That was my experience too and a big reason I'm looking for a PC laptop. Even something as minor as no 2nd/3rd mouse buttons or scrollwheel really mess with me and my productivity. That's not to mention worse performance after partitioning, as you alluded. In theory, I'd love to get a MacBook that emulates Windows fairly closely, but Bootcamp and Fusion fell well short of that for me.

 

[Water]

Can you go into more details on why programming is better on the mac?

I'm a programmer who uses Unix (linux, solaris, aix, hpux) and Windows all the time. Personally, I like Windows better because Visual Studio debugger is easier to use. I agree that writing bat files is not as powerful as bash scripts but I tend to use perl/python for any serious stuff. I can always install Cygwin if I want the bash functionality on Windows.

I find the Windows console near unusable even if you do install Cygwin (or use a bash that comes with git clients like I do). The UI feels terrible, nothing looks quite right, you can't even copy-paste easily. Though it has been a long time since I tried, I remember calling Windows command line stuff from Cygwin wasn't very seamless/obvious/reliable. In general, the Windows UI with its Ctrl usage is permanently at odds with Unix tools, whereas OS X UI with Cmd is orthogonal and allows you to use the command line 100% like you would on Linux while also having access to the typical OS X stuff. Even without the command line, the Windows input system feels bad and doesn't handle international stuff, my custom keyboard layout etc. like OS X does.

OS X gives you easier access to a wider range of programming tools than Windows does. Out of the box you already have a proper console and a bunch of tools, and getting the rest in place and updating them is a lot easier. I don't need to download and install a ton of different apps manually. I can just copy-paste one incantation to Terminal to dl+install a package manager, and install/update most compilers, tools, some libraries, even MacVim and some other GUI Mac apps straight from there. As a heavy *nix user I'm sure you know how useful that is. I haven't used Linux on my own machines but I hear package manager reliability and cutting-edge tool availability is even better there than on OS X; however I stick with OS X because of access to all the non-programming productivity apps that don't exist elsewhere.

I don't disagree with Visual Studio being nice, and there are some specialized programming fields where the best tools are on Windows - low-level graphics programming at least. But when I'm not doing specifically that, or gaming, I don't want to be on Windows.

 

[Garou]

Anandtech saves the day: http://anandtech.com/show/8771/best-1000-laptops-holiday-2014

 

[maeh2k]

• Data science (both traditional stand-alone and big data/cloud architectures)
• Analyzing web data (with Python or something similar) and web programming
• Software development (C++ and/or Java)
• Messing about with computer graphics (e.g. Maya) and programming (i.e. Unity); lower priority.

Here are my desired features:

• Modern two-in-one functionality with a traditional PC side and a Windows 8 touch screen side (doesn't have to be all slick like a Yoga Pro, just highly functional)
• Decent media performance and streaming (don't need more than 1366/768 resolution on 15.6'' screen)
• Ability to play indie/older games on at least medium settings with decent performance.
• Form factor is not that important, rather get more computer than a slicker build for the same price.
• Sub $1000 price range

TLDR: Need a good PC laptop for under $1,000 for professional development in data science/web data/software development. Ignorant about such things because I've stubbornly clung to my MacBook for too long. Decent performance for two-in-one tablet functionality, media, and medium sized gaming are appreciated. Help!

If you act fast and go up to $1100, the Thinkpad Yoga might fit your needs nicely: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/landingpage/promotions/lenovo-doorbusters/#!/thinkpad-laptops

It's a high-quality, business-class device. It comes with 8GB of RAM and a dedicated GPU which you need for programming and graphics stuff. 14" FHD multi-touch display.
Seems like a great choice.


Edit: if you could live without a touch screen, you could also consider the Thinkpad W540 that's on sale. At $1250, it's, again, a bit more than $1000, but it's worth that much. No ULV CPU, but a mobile quad-core, Nvidia Quadro GPU, 8GB of RAM (upgradeable to 32GB).

 

[Dougald]

Dell XPS 13 (if you don't mind losing touch), or Surface Pro are what I considered before eventually buying a Macbook Pro 13 (I had more unixy requirements so the Mac made most sense for me in that price range). The Dell is an excellently built machine