I love these type of threads. All the exceptions, inconvieniences and well everyone should have those parts laying around, and be able to build a pc just to reach a pricepoint for a system you walk into walmart and buy. Bring home, open box, plug into your tv and away you go. People still dont get or see the difference and i doubt they ever will.
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PC Gamer: PS4 performance comparable to $600 PC [if you carelessly skip some details]
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I love these type of threads. All the exceptions, inconvieniences and well everyone should have those parts laying around, and be able to build a pc just to reach a pricepoint for a system you walk into walmart and buy. Bring home, open box, plug into your tv and away you go. People still dont get or see the difference and i doubt they ever will.
Anton Sugar
Member
How much will DDR5 memory cost at the time of the PS4 launch?
GoddyofAus
Banned
You really are a Crab, because you've been under a rock for a fucking long time.
Ever heard of Journey?
metalshade
Member
What desk and chair?
My pc is setup next to my HDTV, and I play on my couch with a kb/m, and the experience is incredible, and comfy.
People forget that pc gaming is a much more inclusive experience now than it used to be.
Building a gaming rig for less than £800 is a lot less complicated than many people realise, and it looks extremely good, and doesn't have hidden extra costs, the games cost less, and it is so much more versatile.
I migrated from consoles when I realised that games are what I care about, and console developers seem to be forgetting that.
I mean, that killzone demo....30fps? Nowhere near good enough.
I play BF3 on high at 85fps with 64 players. I just don't see that happening with this coming gen of consoles. If it does though, that will be incredible.
Heck, I am thinking of buying a ps4 just so I can use my Vita to off tv the exclusives.
But to those saying that it is a better long term gaming choice, I think that is a mistake.
My opinion.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
So just because you paid $30, that qualifies that all pay $30?
Most students = not everyone
Hell I have never had to purchase an OS in my Computer life
Bought a Dell Desktop came with Windows ME in 2000
Bought a Dell Laptop with Win XP in 2005
Bought a Vaio Laptop with Win 7 in 2008
Bought HP Laptop with Win 8 in 2012
Never built a gaming rig, so I never had to purchase an OS ever
I'm just saying there's a reason Windows makes boatloads for MS
Not everyone just gets them for cheap prices, most might get them @ discounted prices, some might even pay full retail... shocker I know!
Fried Food
Banned
closed box unified architecture makes all the difference. 2005 hardware gave us killzone, uncharted, gears, halo.
no game has ever been built on modern day pcs that truly takes advantage Of the hardware
no game has ever been built on modern day pcs that truly takes advantage Of the hardware
Dreams-Visions
Member
You're the same guy that is preparing to spend $1,000 on your PS4, right? That's what you said in the other thread, right?
But you're complaining about PC equipment while having never build a "gaming rig".
What meaningful contribution can you really hope to offer to this discussion? I mean really. Do better.
lol, what does that even mean. You guys are hilarious today.
I agree a lot of the people in this thread won't see the difference.
A lot of them fear to step foot in the PC screenshot thread for fear that they will see a difference (and they would see a difference). And really, if you don't have a keyboard and mouse available, how are you posting on NeoGAF?
Who doesn't own a PS3/360 controller?
Let's be honest. The reason to own a console is for the exclusive games and ease of use/pack up; not for visual excellence. You buy a PC for the best visual experience and cheapest cost of games.
there's other games like amnesia, torchlight 2, antichamber, symphony, ftl etc
but we wont count them because willful ignorance is the way forward
And that reason is most assuredly NOT because of people buying it to build a computer, because they can get a copy for around 30 dollars.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
I'm just stating some don't add in the OS cost
What does me spending 1K for the PS4 in the other thread have to do with me asking why most forget to add in the OS overhead, that's all
Why even bring this up?
I'm not knocking the PC here
Just questioning it
I can take that 1K and simply turn into a nice comfortable Steam Machine (hell I'll just wait for Steambox), just an observation, Jesus!
I don't see how those detract from my argument, despite (most of them) being good games.
No sir. It's still unfinished. 2 webcams, a controller, a tablet (for touch), an OS, a headset, Blu Ray drive, etc.
If you are going to compare price vs performance of a complete box which doesn't have a price you must include everything in that price.
One can easily suggest that the PS4 based solely on performance specs without the drive, controller, etc - will be half that of the price of the PC. So you're suggesting that you will be paying double the price for the same performance (which, performance isn't true, either - closed system).
Of All Trades
Member
So provide a link so we can all partake of cheap non-upgrade Windows 8.
Now the crazies come out.
Why would you want Windows 8 on your gaming PC?
Here's the gaming superior Win 7 for $66 without any digging.
http://snaggstuff.com/microsoft-windows-7-home-premium-64-bit-full-oem-branded-gfc-00599-brd.html
That 8GB GDDR5 RAM is going to be this gen's Cell (or Emotion Engine). It's something Sony can hype to high heaven with all manner of charts and figures, but when it comes down to brass tacks, you're not going to see the real world advantage that some people on here seem to be expecting. Certainly not with the rest of the system proving somewhat underpowered in comparison to available PC technology. Anyone who claims otherwise is being disingenuous, in my opinion.
metalshade
Member
Come on guys, pc gaming is more inclusive than ever, easier to get into, not as horrendously expensive as some people might still believe.
That doesn't mean that it is the right choice for everyone though.
If you just want to open the box, turn it on and play a game within 5 minutes of getting home on launch day, a console is a great choice.
When you want to go deeper, when you realise that console development has sort of reached a plateau and cant offer up a change of pace or something never seen before, pc it is.
Most of the time.
That doesn't mean that it is the right choice for everyone though.
If you just want to open the box, turn it on and play a game within 5 minutes of getting home on launch day, a console is a great choice.
When you want to go deeper, when you realise that console development has sort of reached a plateau and cant offer up a change of pace or something never seen before, pc it is.
Most of the time.
Anton Sugar
Member
Doesn't Windows 8 have gaming and overall performance improvements over W7?
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
If I ever build a gaming rig, I'm really going to use the best parts possible, money be damned
I know it sounds stupid and even overkill, but my mindset for PC gaming is more towards the enthusiastic side
Like Put 4 690's in this Bitch and let's burn the house down kind of thinking
I like Sony, love their first party output, get decent 3rd Party/Indie, they gave me the Trophy system, I'm happy
I like Steam, have over 100 Games for it and I play them on Integrated Graphics (4000), I'm OK with that
I know it sounds stupid and even overkill, but my mindset for PC gaming is more towards the enthusiastic side
Like Put 4 690's in this Bitch and let's burn the house down kind of thinking
I like Sony, love their first party output, get decent 3rd Party/Indie, they gave me the Trophy system, I'm happy
I like Steam, have over 100 Games for it and I play them on Integrated Graphics (4000), I'm OK with that
CPU - $133
Mobo - $39.99
8GB RAM - $36
GTX 660 - $200 AMIR
HDD - $56
PSU - $35
Computer Case - $35
BD Drive $43
Total price: $599
This is where it gets tricky, you can include a copy of Windows 7 for $91 or use linux.
Point is: it is entirely possibly to build a gaming PC with off the shelf parts that will equal the power and performance of the PS4 by Q4 2013.
Controller - $34 or you can use your existing DS3 with motioninjoy
Edit: Added the BD drive for the haters. Optical media is dead, btw.
Mobo - $39.99
8GB RAM - $36
GTX 660 - $200 AMIR
HDD - $56
PSU - $35
Computer Case - $35
BD Drive $43
Total price: $599
This is where it gets tricky, you can include a copy of Windows 7 for $91 or use linux.
Point is: it is entirely possibly to build a gaming PC with off the shelf parts that will equal the power and performance of the PS4 by Q4 2013.
Controller - $34 or you can use your existing DS3 with motioninjoy
Edit: Added the BD drive for the haters. Optical media is dead, btw.
Depends on what you want out of your PC. Gaming wise, Win 8 is not an improvement.
Take the PC
-Remove all of the exclusives built up over decades of gaming and limit yourself to last gen
-Remove F2P games
-Remove Kickstarter Funded Games
-Remove multiplatform games (normally superior to their console counterparts)
-Ignore mods (mods that can make GTA 4 look a generation ahead of any PS4 game)
-Remove games available via emulators, many of which are exclusive to the platform being emulated
-Remove games that can only be seen on 360 in the console space or can only be seen on Ps3 in the console space
Remove ALL of this, and you still have amazing exclusives. Football Manager, Company of Heroes, Civ, Torchlight 2, the total war series, warhammer, amnesia, starcraft etc
Different froma glut of mediocre shooters that you control (or pretend to) using an analogue stick. But amazing games in their own right
and that's on top of the other stuff
BloodMoney
Banned
I'm not so sure about that. I think it will continue to have its place for a long time yet.
Most of "console specific optimization" that people talk about is actually the result of choosing algorithms that are better suited to a particular platform's architecture, not "coding to the metal" as everyone likes to think. Since PS4 and PC are both X86 I expect a lot of that advantage to disappear next gen.
Also, this. No one's going to be able to actually max out those transfer speeds because they'll be bottlenecked by the rest of the system. 8GB of GDDR5 is going to offer little real world advantage over, say, 6GB of DDR3 and 2 - 3GB of GDDR5. What we should mostly be thankful for is that the total system memory is so high. Memory limitations were a huge problem on consoles last gen, so it's good to see them making at least some efforts to futureproof the system.
Also, this. No one's going to be able to actually max out those transfer speeds because they'll be bottlenecked by the rest of the system. 8GB of GDDR5 is going to offer little real world advantage over, say, 6GB of DDR3 and 2 - 3GB of GDDR5. What we should mostly be thankful for is that the total system memory is so high. Memory limitations were a huge problem on consoles last gen, so it's good to see them making at least some efforts to futureproof the system.
Of All Trades
Member
Because it will likely have support throughout the lifecycle of next-gen. And for gaming it's not inferior to W7.
So more than twice what you quoted and from a website that I've never heard of.
Dreams-Visions
Member
We don't know if it's equal to the power and performance of the PS4 because we don't have any games to compare performance with.
It's all conjecture.
It's been dead in the PC space. Hard copies of games are for collectors and/or provided as a courtesy for those with bad bandwidth. Steam, GMG, and Origin are all a PC gamer with a halfway decent high-speed internet connection needs.
I completely removed the optical drive from my laptop in favor of another hard drive 2 years ago. I can count on my hands the number of times I've reached for my external bluray drive. It's mostly for ripping my music/movies to digital format for my network now. Maybe once/season.
Isn't the BD Drive in the PS4 just used to transfer the games to HDD? Or was that just a rumor.
So a dual-camera can be replaced with a single camera? I'm crazy to suggest you'd need 2 webcams for the same functionality? Really? Can you reach any more?
The point (while poorly suggested) of the article is that you can get the same performance from a PC for 600 bucks, suggesting the PS4 will be 600. The only way you can suggest any of this is if you try to make a complete apples/apples comparison.
Going in half-assed like this article did proves nothing. Your comment adds nothing to the debate, champ.
You believe that this PC gets the same peformance and Visuells with Ports or similar games as the PS4?
Even up to the last years of the PS4? Really?
Don't tell that to Gabe.
If you want to buy right now online, your best bet is 66 dollars, that doesn't change the fact that at any given time you may be able to find it for 30 dollars. I can keep you updated on the price so when you're ready to buy you'll get the best available!
$30 is not hyperbole, but just like with anything on the PC, pricing can be fluid and your best bet is to keep an eye on the parts you want and buy when they're as low as possible.
No, you're crazy to suggest that a PC gaming rig needs webcams. The article isn't trying to match waggle functionality with PS4, it's trying to match gaming performance.
Dreams-Visions
Member
lol.
Now we're just in the weeds. Add 2 webcams. What's that, $40? $50 total? You guys are just ridiculous.
you have no reason to believe it can or can't. but the GPU alone outperforms the PS4 GPU (Tflops), so if that's anything to go by it may be equivalent, yes.
ugaboga232
Member
In this Thread:
People who don't buy computers or laptops. If you already buy computers, that's a cost that you shouldn't use to compare. The real comparison is PS4 + Computer vs. Gaming Computer.
In that case, you have up to 1000 dollars to play with. While the 7XX and 8XXX won't be a huge leap, get yourself a 7950 (simple to overclock to 7970 levels and beyond) and 2500k (or the ivy/haswell equivalent), 8 gigs of ram, and you should be set.
Even laptops can be competitive. Top end laptops have either an underclocked 680 gtx or a 7870 (essentially ps4 gpu) for 1500 to 2000 dollars decently loaded. Once again, laptop + ps4 vs gaming laptop is the comparison.
http://imgur.com/gallery/CT8ZX
Nevermind what mods can do to skyrim and the fact that an nVidia 88XX series gpu with a penryn processor can still outdo current gen consoles (maybe not at 1080p but thats a 4x console res increase in some cases).
The fact that PS4 uses essentially off the shelf parts (cept gddr5) and the optimization won't be more than 30%.
But yea, if you already have a PC (which you probably do given that you are reading this), thats a sunk cost that would apply regardless of a gaming or not gaming one.
Still though, PS4 looks awesome.
People who don't buy computers or laptops. If you already buy computers, that's a cost that you shouldn't use to compare. The real comparison is PS4 + Computer vs. Gaming Computer.
In that case, you have up to 1000 dollars to play with. While the 7XX and 8XXX won't be a huge leap, get yourself a 7950 (simple to overclock to 7970 levels and beyond) and 2500k (or the ivy/haswell equivalent), 8 gigs of ram, and you should be set.
Even laptops can be competitive. Top end laptops have either an underclocked 680 gtx or a 7870 (essentially ps4 gpu) for 1500 to 2000 dollars decently loaded. Once again, laptop + ps4 vs gaming laptop is the comparison.
http://imgur.com/gallery/CT8ZX
Nevermind what mods can do to skyrim and the fact that an nVidia 88XX series gpu with a penryn processor can still outdo current gen consoles (maybe not at 1080p but thats a 4x console res increase in some cases).
The fact that PS4 uses essentially off the shelf parts (cept gddr5) and the optimization won't be more than 30%.
But yea, if you already have a PC (which you probably do given that you are reading this), thats a sunk cost that would apply regardless of a gaming or not gaming one.
Still though, PS4 looks awesome.
Glorified G
Member
It's cute that some people think off shelf 8gb ddr3 is even comparable to the custom gddr5 that will be built in the ps4.
I want to see someone actually build that pc just for their reaction when comparing their multiplat games to consoles. Maybe they'll finally understand what a closed & open platform is.
Reread my argument.
The fuck? That implication is nowhere in the article, and the author specifically mentioned the rumor that the PS4 will cost $430/$530, as other sites have reported.
So we cherry pick? Awesome. That means the PS4 will provide the same performance at far lower cost, if we are just going by a direct price
erformance.Again, the article does a piss-poor job of communicating this.
You can't even begin to tout PC pricing and then cherry pick features that support such irrational claims without knowing the price of the PS4 which is forced to include extra components not indicative to "performance".
Get a grip, man. The best comparisons are apples/apples and you are trying to avoid that at all costs, SMH.
Dreams-Visions
Member
It's sad that people don't seem to understand that a PC has to have some memory, and DDR3 is the only kind for modern motherboards.
Comparing a console's unified ram to the standard ram a PC has to have instead of to the separate GPU smacks of a basic lack of understanding of how modern PC's work. Without that, how can you even hope to participate in the conversation? If you're building a PC, you will put DDR3 ram onto the motherboard slots. The GDDR5 will come on the GPU and will be an amount based on how much you want to pay for. Adding more VRAM does not automatically equal better performance in games...and the essence of the discussion is about building a PC that can equally perform. It doesn't have to match specs; it has to match performance.
Whether any of the listed computers can won't be known until the PS4 is out along with some multiplats and we can establish a baseline set of PC parts that will do the job.
Glorified G
Member
That's why I said it's not comparable?
Your lack of reading comprehension probably should be your bigger concern
8GB is standard for most rigs now-a-days. I think you should compare the 2GB of GDDR5 GPU RAM to the 8GB of unified 8GB of GDDR5.
We need to save this thread for a year after Watch_Dogs is out with PC Mods and benchmarks. It will be delicious.
Castle Doctrine
Member
For a console you have to add in the value of ease of use compared to a PC, which over the course of let's say 5 years, I value at an estimated $5000 dollars.
So that $600 PC in the OP actually costs me $5600.
So that $600 PC in the OP actually costs me $5600.
Dreams-Visions
Member
You still don't seem to get it. Nobody is comparing the 8GB of DDR3 ram to the unified system ram in the PS4. Certainly not the poster you quoted.
You need some ram just to boot an OS. You can't buy GDDR5 off the fucking shelf and slap it into a PC mobo memory socket. Everyone here (except a few of you PC novices) know that. So what, exactly, is your point in singling this system memory out in the first place if not because you believed someone was drawing a comparison between PC system ram and PS4 unified memory (which they weren't)? You have no idea what you're talking about and you're defensive about it. The worst possible scenario.
So we cherry pick? Awesome. That means the PS4 will provide the same performance at far lower cost, if we are just going by a direct price
Again, the article does a piss-poor job of communicating this.
You can't even begin to tout PC pricing and then cherry pick features that support such irrational claims without knowing the price of the PS4 which is forced to include extra components not indicative to "performance".
Get a grip, man. The best comparisons are apples/apples and you are trying to avoid that at all costs, SMH.
The idea of the article is to show how much a current build of a PC that would be comparable to a PS4 would cost. Is it more expensive than the rumors for the PS4? Yes, but the point isn't one of value comparison but performance comparison. The rig built in the article is meant to be an example of what you'd need for next gen gaming.
So you have to pay around ~750 for this pc to get the peformance of the PS4.
So you boot up windows start your game and at this point its the same or even better as a PS4. Ok i doubt it but at this point its already to freaking expensiv anyway.
dummydecoy
Member
Keep dreaming PCGamer. What a stupid article.
I like how the gaming side has now become RAM experts all of a sudden :lol so cute! It's not worth wasting your time explaining to some tbh.
Hey, I can play that one as well! For a PC you have to add in the value of flexiblity compared to a console, which over the course of let's say 5 years, I value at an estimated $10000 dollars.
Yep, you can have next gen level tech right now if you're willing to spend the money. Cool huh?
In 8 months when PS4 is released, you can have next gen level tech if you're willing to spend a lot less money then you did right now.
and two years after that... you'll have a PC that's probably 30% to 40% faster. Really the only thing that can change in this build is the GPU.
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