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[Draft]

http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/02/20/gdc_long_live_pc_gaming/

So does PC gaming need saving? The PCGA doesn't think so. Citing statistics from leading research firm DFC Intelligence PCGA President Randy Stude - who is also the Director of Gaming Strategy at Intel - evangelized the business of PC gaming. Stude's figures stated that PC gaming revenue was worth approximately $2.76 billion in 2007, a 12% increase year-over-year from 2006. The forecast for 2008 is an estimated 14% increase over the 2007 revenue. From the look of the numbers the PC gaming business is growing not shrinking, and the 263 million PC gamers online at the end of 2007 will only grow substantially through 2008.

TG: But then you have Cliffy B come out and say that PC gaming is in disarray and...

MR: Oh he's an idiot [laughing]. No, he's a great guy. Cliff makes console games though, right? He's on a console team that makes what is primarily a console game.

Mark Rein, calling it like it is.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Cliffy B. owned by his Master Chef

 

[HK-47]

Cliffy B. owned by his Master Chef

Cooking up ownage?

 

[Joseph Merrick]

:lol

 

[Creamium]

where's that cliffyphoria gif when you need it

 

[Mrbob]

Man I can't wait for my 8800GT to show up on Tuesday so I can finish my PC build.

PC gaming is as strong as ever. I'm itching to jump back in.

 

[WickedLaharl]

mark rein sure has a way with words

 

[SnakeXs]

This is gonna get down to what every "PC gaming health" thread is about.

Blockbusters vs. Popcap vs. Indie stuff

Depending on what your POV on "PC Gaming" is, your POV on how it's doing will change.

 

[Gattsu25]

Mark Rein: Oh [CliffyB]'s an idiot

GDC vids proved that much.

 

[HK-47]

This is gonna get down to what every "PC gaming health" thread is about.

Blockbusters vs. Popcap vs. Indie stuff

Depending on what your POV on "PC Gaming" is, your POV on how it's doing will change.

They all are doing well?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Knytt and Knytt Stories and Knytt Universe owns Cliffy B. but all 3 are free Indie games :3

 

[Z3F]

Is that why the Gears of War port for the PC is so unreliable? Screw U, Cliffy.

 

[Victrix]

WoW, Sims, Stardock, Crysis, $2000, $399, Digital Downloads, Valve, UT3, Comfy Couches, Bullshots, Is Dead

 

[ToxicAdam]

Cliffy is not entirely wrong. The explosive growth on the console side has been astronomical in the past 9 years. PC sales used to represent 30-40% of sales for all video games. Now it is down in the teens.

 

[batbeg]

Knytt and Knytt Stories and Knytt Universe owns Cliffy B. but all 3 are free Indie games :3

Knytt Universe?

TO GOOGLE!

EDIT: You lied to me

 

[Mrbob]

I just bought Titan Quest Gold and Rise Legends today for 35 bucks.

Where else can you find two games with hundreds of hours of gameplay for under 50 dollars? Certainly not on consoles that is for sure.

 

[ethelred]

I just bought Titan Quest Gold and Rise Legends today for 35 bucks.

Where else can you find two games with hundreds of hours of gameplay for under 50 dollars? Certainly not on consoles that is for sure.

Pretty sure you can.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Knytt Universe?

TO GOOGLE!

EDIT: You lied to me

I pulled the "Knytt Universe" name out of my butt but there is something called Knytt Experiment thats essentially the Knytt World thats always expanding (users create their own levels that mesh together, getting bigger and bigger)

Check it out:

http://nifflas.ni2.se/index.php?main=05Knytt_Experiment

 

[Z3F]

Cliffy is not entirely wrong. The explosive growth on the console side has been astronomical in the past 9 years. PC sales used to represent 30-40% of sales for all video games. Now it is down in the teens.

But there have supposedly been 2 million sales of the 8800 GT already, which would put it at about the same pace as a PS3 or 360 in the same timefrane. The problem with PC games is just piracy. Some people will argue that those guys wouldn't have bought those games anyway. But if they weren't going to buy games like Crysis, why did they even buy a 8800 GT?

 

[Onemic]

Cliffy is not entirely wrong. The explosive growth on the console side has been astronomical in the past 9 years. PC sales used to represent 30-40% of sales for all video games. Now it is down in the teens.

In the US, yes. And also not counting casual titles. And also not counting digital downloads which takes a WTF chunk of PC sales now.

So basically....HE IS WRONG.

 

[Mrbob]

But there have supposedly been 2 million sales of the 8800 GT already, which would put it at about the same pace as a PS3 or 360 in the same timefrane. The problem with PC games is just piracy. Some people will argue that those guys wouldn't have bought those games anyway. But if they weren't going to buy games like Crysis, why did they even buy a 8800 GT?

Two million? That seems awfully high. Especially considering Nvidia had a shortage of production with the product until about a month ago.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Knytt Universe?

TO GOOGLE!

EDIT: You lied to me

I did the same thing just now. lol

 

[Z3F]

Two million? That seems awfully high. Especially considering Nvidia had a shortage of production with the product until about a month ago.

I thought so too, but there was a press release from Nvidia about it. That's why the low PC sales are so shocking. There are tons of people with decent rigs out there. They're just to cheap to buy the games and piracy is just too easy.

 

[diddlyD]

when 97% of the money is from WoW and the Sims, you realize the prospects aren't so rosy for other games.

 

[Onemic]

when 97% of the money is from WoW and the Sims, you realize the prospects aren't so rosy for other games.

When people don't know anything about what they're talking about, they usually keep quiet.

 

[Firestorm]

I swear PC gamers are about as defensive as Nintendo fans were about 5 years ago.

 

[ToxicAdam]

In the US, yes. And also not counting casual titles. And also not counting digital downloads which takes a WTF chunk of PC sales now.

So basically....HE IS WRONG.

Retail sales were 1 billion. Even a generous prediction for DD at 800 million would still put it below the high water mark for 1999. For reference, NPD estimated DD sales for 2005 at 400 million.

So, in 9 years .. PC sales have remained flat, whereas console sales have almost doubled.

That's just the facts. It doesn't mean PC gaming is dying .. it's just much easier to sell a game on the console side.

 

[Onemic]

I swear PC gamers are about as defensive as Nintendo fans were about 5 years ago.

Maybe that's because the things that console guys say is more or less utter bullshit. NPD sales for PC games aren't representative for PC games sales in the least. Haven't you ever heard of digital downloads before?

Plus the world doesn't start and end with the US as well.

 

[Z3F]

I swear PC gamers are about as defensive as Nintendo fans were about 5 years ago.

It's not even the same situation. Nintendo fans were in denial about how popular their system or games were. PC gaming is still extremely popular. People just aren't paying for their PC games.

 

[Onemic]

Retail sales were 1 billion. Even a generous prediction for DD at 800 million would still put it below the high water mark for 1999. For reference, NPD estimated DD sales for 2005 at 400 million.

So, in 9 years .. PC sales have remained flat, whereas console sales have almost doubled.

That's just the facts. It doesn't mean PC gaming is dying .. it's just much easier to sell a game on the console side.

As I said before. Ever heard of digital downloads? You know that thing that a whole lot of PC gamers are doing now? And also a thing that isn't tracked by the NPD in the least? Ya, that thing.

 

[Minsc]

I just bought Titan Quest Gold and Rise Legends today for 35 bucks.

Where else can you find two games with hundreds of hours of gameplay for under 50 dollars? Certainly not on consoles that is for sure.

Well if you aim a little higher you could pick up Forgotten Realms: Deluxe Edition, which has thousands of hours of gameplay for under $100.

But ethelred is right, consoles are not suffering a shortage of inexpensive long ass games. I picked up Disgaea for $25, which has hundreds of hours of game play. I'm pretty sure there's a few other dozen series that match it in length too.

I thought so too, but there was a press release from Nvidia about it. That's why the low PC sales are so shocking. There are tons of people with decent rigs out there. They're just to cheap to buy the games and piracy is just too easy.

So you want to predict Starcraft 2 first month's sales for me?

 

[Doytch]

WoW, Sims, Stardock, Crysis, $2000, $399, Digital Downloads, Valve, UT3, Comfy Couches, Bullshots, Is Dead

You forgot the 50" HDTV.

 

[Juice]

I realize that Epic is privately owned and they have no legal fiduciary requirement to not piss on their own value, but Epic needs to hire a PR firm and never, ever, ever let their owners or management outside again.

 

[Victrix]

You forgot the 50" HDTV.

I figured it was sort of rolled into Comfy Couches, but I forgot PIRACY WITH FANGS

 

[lexi]

So you want to predict Starcraft 2 first month's sales for me?

I'll take a guess at 8.6 million. At least 3 million from the US.

 

[Doc Evils]

That means he gets a new tag on gaf.:lol

 

[HugBasket]

MAKE SOMETHING BESIDES UNREAL TOURNAMENT AND I'LL CARE

 

[McLovin]

I was one of those pc gaming is dead guys.. but its different when you actually have a computer that can play these games. PC gaming is alive and well and isn't going anywhere.

 

[sneaky77]

But there have supposedly been 2 million sales of the 8800 GT already, which would put it at about the same pace as a PS3 or 360 in the same timefrane. The problem with PC games is just piracy. Some people will argue that those guys wouldn't have bought those games anyway. But if they weren't going to buy games like Crysis, why did they even buy a 8800 GT?

some people need high end graphic cards to work with i just dont get what sales of a graphics card has o do with pc gaming sales

 

[Xtyle]

I thought so too, but there was a press release from Nvidia about it. That's why the low PC sales are so shocking. There are tons of people with decent rigs out there. They're just to cheap to buy the games and piracy is just too easy.

what about work machines??? My computer at work has a 8800gtx. There must be a lot of these out there in work places...schools etc

 

[Mojovonio]

[/IMG]

 

[evlcookie]

when 97% of the money is from WoW and the Sims, you realize the prospects aren't so rosy for other games.

Even though games like stalker have sold 1.6m copies, crysis 1m, sins of a solar empire has gone beyond what stardock even thought was possible and that game doesnt even have a european retail distro ?

What Jeff Green said on the 1up show is really spot on, developers are just greedy these days and want sales just like Halo or CoD4.

Which i find funny. Because since the mid 90's (bad guess) the PC has always been seen as the FPS machine. Games like Myst (even though sold 5m copies back then, 12m to date) dropped off everyones radar and it just turned into a shooter machine.

But .. isnt that happening to our consoles? The xbox is seen as a shooter platform now and where is the real varity in games? Last year was the shooter year, this year is looking like it might be aswell. Yet PC gaming seems to be shrugging off that FPS only stigma and returning to quality original games. Sins by a small developer has sold like hot cakes, audiosurf an indie game is still #1 on steam since it went on sale, Fez bitches!. Could this be armageddon? Are consoles turning into a shooter only machine and are pc's going back to a -we have all types of games- machine?

The world has gone topsy turvy!

PC gaming is far from dead. The PC is just changing, like it did in the FPS era.

 

[GavinGT]

Obviously, this makes Rein an even bigger idiot for publicly trashing perhaps his most talented developer.

 

[Minsc]

As I said before. Ever heard of digital downloads? You know that thing that a whole lot of PC gamers are doing now? And also a thing that isn't tracked by the NPD in the least? Ya, that thing.

I'm pretty sure he missed the PR where PC sales of the Orange Box are "significantly" higher than console sales, despite it being hailed for consoles as GOTY and the sort by many different sites.

 

[Mrbob]

Latest steam hardware survey has the 8800GT as the number one card in machines. With the low prices on the card now there probably is a huge uptake in them lately.

 

[ToxicAdam]

As I said before. Ever heard of digital downloads? You know that thing that a whole lot of PC gamers are doing now? And also a thing that isn't tracked by the NPD in the least? Ya, that thing.

Did you read my post? I succinctly address digital downloads (referring it in shorthand to DD)

In 2005, NPD estimated DD at 400 million dollars. In 2 short years that number has (probably) increased .. but not exponentially.


So, even if you were to say that DD sales had doubled in that short time, total sales for 2007 would still fall below the high water mark of 1999.

 

[Beer Monkey]

PC gaming is doing fine, though it is true that many of the PC gamers have switched to consoles. There are tons of great PC games arriving all the time.

The biggest change in PC gaming is that, increasingly, the big-budget shooters have to be developed cross-platform with consoles in order to get a good return.

This isn't the case with MMO, strategy, adventure, and other genres.

 

[Barakov]

http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/02/20/gdc_long_live_pc_gaming/





Mark Rein, calling it like it is.

DRAMA.

 

[JDSN]

Old facts are old.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

i wish the OP had just bumped the other shitty thread instead of making this shitty thread.