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[arstal]

But isn't steams drm pretty easy going compared to the type of drm that publishers tack on after the fact?
having to authenticate for installation and for online play but only occasionally for offline play...isn't that pretty damn good compared to the securom crap and its ilk?

I guess the fear that steam will shutdown someday is valid i guess..but if steam fails out like that,isn't there just as likely to be a workaround for old stuff?

I'd say it's better then limited-activation securom (like Blood Bowl and Blade Kitten use)- very few good games use that DRM though.

I don't think any of the three major DD services will go down. D2D I'd worry about, as they have no niche other then pricecutting now, but they probably still make money despite that.

I do see a possible scenario where GG or Impulse gets merged, either with Microsoft (they get serious about DD, and instead of reinventing the wheel, just do what they do with Windows and use Stardock stuff) , or a GG+Impulse merge to counter Steam.

 

[M3d10n]

Both Stardock and Gamersgate, once you DL the game, it's yours. You don't need Impulse running ever to play an Impulse game, and Gamersgate has nothing to run period.

Wrong. I don't know about Stardock (never bought anything from them), but With Gamersgate the DRM is built directly into the game. My last purchase from them had a mere 5 install limit, and after I hit it I had to e-mail them so they would re-set my serial. There may be no client, but having to keep track of serials and fiddle with their website is as much of a hassle for me.

 

[Shambles]

This has always been the case and always will be. Its got nothing to do with Steam.

Bullshit. I own what I buy and I can do whatever I want to it short of financially hurting the devs. Good luck to anyone trying to come into my house and telling me what I can do with my own stuff. If you want to sell an experience put it into a pill. Any company that thinks otherwise can go suck on their EULA's that don't mean anything in the eyes of the law.

 

[luka]

Deus Ex: HR and Rage have already been confirmed as using Steamworks? I didn't know that.

God I hope not. Stop taking away my options, devs! I like steam, but some games I just like having a hard copy I can easily revisit 15 years down the road (and yes, I actually do that with a handful of games I've kept over the last decade and a half).

 

[starsky]

I have been gaming on PC since Dune 2 and still don't have Steam.

Of course it's possible.

 

[arstal]

Wrong. I don't know about Stardock (never bought anything from them), but With Gamersgate the DRM is built directly into the game. My last purchase from them had a mere 5 install limit, and after I hit it I had to e-mail them so they would re-set my serial. There may be no client, but having to keep track of serials and fiddle with their website is as much of a hassle for me.

That's a publisher decision, not Gamersgate's. Most of them do that to the Steam version also (some don't).

Sometimes with Impulse you'll get them using Reactor/GOO instead of worse DRMs- Capcom and some Paradox published titles* being the biggest name company to do this (DMC, SF4) . That's basically just a one-time serial-key check effectively, which is fine.

* Paradox developed games don't have DRM, but their 2nd-party studios often use DRM.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

Deus Ex: HR and Rage have already been confirmed as using Steamworks? I didn't know that.

Yes, it's already been confirmed. Square-Enix will only publish/develop PC titles that use Steamworks and the director of Rage already hinted at Steamworks integration when it was discovered that the Steam store page was added a year before the game's release.

 

[brain_stew]

I don't think any of the three major DD services will go down. D2D I'd worry about, as they have no niche other then pricecutting now, but they probably still make money despite that.

How does that one work? D2D is much bigger than either Impulse or GG (probably larger than both combined infact) and its owned by a huge multinational. It has a much more certain future than Impulse and GG could ever hope to have.

 

[Minsc]

2 years ago, I never wanted to use Steam, today, I wouldn't want to be without it.

The only issue I have with Steam is that they disable your account if they have an issue over an individual title. Other than that, the service is perfect (more or less).

It's like the Netflix of gaming. The future of gaming. If you have to avoid Steam to enjoy PC gaming, there's a bigger problem than Steam you should be focusing on.

 

[Dash Kappei]

With the huge success of Steam and pretty much a wide acceptance as the future of PC gaming, is it possible to still play pc games without Steam?

If I wanted to play pc games without a dvd rom in the drive I can use a no-dvd image(right?), and I could play a single player game without logging into steam and having that run in the background.

I don't know much about Steam, if you use Steam do you need an internet connection to play all games?

You can just play with physical copies and then use some no-dvd exe (it'll still require that your game is legit, no fucking advocating piracy or anything).
I do exactly that.
But mind you, I only play single player.
This is because I play off my HTPC that is set-up in a room which lacks a great internet connection and has a strict bandwith cap.

 

[Gin]

this thread is blasphemy to the pc master race

 

[Fredescu]

This whole thread started because the guy didn't want to run an app in the background? Man, that takes me back. I remember msconfig being such a godsend for getting rid of background apps. Now I just launch a game without bothering to close anything. Often my web browser is using more RAM than the video game I'm playing.

 

[Fugu]

So both solutions leave you equally unprotected, great. Why exactly is Steam so much worse, again. The point is that all DRM systems could leave you without access to your content, Steam is no more susceptible to that than the alternatives.

Steam comes with an application, that's why it's so much worse.

It's usually a single file a couple MB in size. Hardly an "application". And from my experience, they're as stable as the original game exes.

As for trojans, they are a non-issue if you know where to look. Just play with google. And remember, these aren't pirated copies we're talking about here. There are legit sites hosting these files.

A cracked .exe must be near the top of one of the easiest places to find a trojan. And seriously, if you include pirating in your definition of illegitimate, then there aren't really many legitimate sites hosting these files. A huge percentage of them (I won't name names due to that probably being bannable) are swarming with adware and other likewise malware. Besides, why would an optimum solution involving me sifting through this anyway? Even if legitimate websites hosting primarily cracks do exist (which I dispute), in what bizarre, anti-consumer way is that the best way for me to access my purchased games?

 

[Hellsing321]

Its possible. Its also possible to play PC games while someone punches you in the balls, but why would you want that?

 

[faceless007]

Even if legitimate websites hosting primarily cracks do exist (which I dispute),

This is trivially disprovable, I've downloaded over 40 cracks from one single site and they all work. I guess I can't definitively prove none of them contained a trojan, but neither MSE nor Malwarebytes found anything wrong with any of them. Granted, I was also running Adblock Plus.

in what bizarre, anti-consumer way is that the best way for me to access my purchased games?

Because it's the only way (however annoying) to do away with DRM entirely.

In some cases, it's also the only way; I have a few disc games where the on-disc protection conflicts with something on my system and refuses to run altogether. I spent about an hour trying to troubleshoot this but decided, fuck it, I'll just spend 30 seconds to get a crack.

 

[faceless007]

I actually share most of your concerns about Steam, but feel the need to correct one thing:

As well, you interpret automatic patching as a good thing while I do not. There are several games that I intentionally play the old patch versions of because they are more balanced, more fun, or less buggy (or something to this effect). While this doesn't affect the vast majority of games, it is an option that Steam doesn't provide.

It does, actually; for any game on your account, you can select "Do not update this game automatically." However, you can't download a version of the game earlier than the first time you download it.

 

[jambo]

The only issue I have with Steam is that they disable your account if they have an issue over an individual title. Other than that, the service is perfect (more or less).

If you're talking about VAC bans then there's a great solution.

Don't hack.

 

[ZZMitch]

If you're talking about VAC bans then there's a great solution.

Don't hack.

He's not talking about VAC bans.

 

[speculawyer]

Of course it is possible. Retail. Games for Windows Live. Other DD services.

But why would you want to do without Steam?

 

[The Shift]

I would love to play Civ5 but cant because it requires Steam. My PC is used as an audio workstation running Cubase5+VSTi and Yamaha/Steinberg drivers that only play nice with 32bit systems. I have had Steam on there and that basically breaks the ability to use any audio production applications. If I had a dedicated gaming rig then fine Steam all the way, but as it stands now I have to choose games that are mostly disc based besides EVE. Bizarrely, I have no negative issues with Impulse/Sins/GalCiv being on this PC.

 

[Nabs]

It's not like you're going to be making music while playing Civ 5 (at least I hope that isn't the case). If you close Steam, there should be no conflicts with your other programs.

 

[Fredescu]

If you're talking about VAC bans then there's a great solution.

Don't hack.

He's talking about payment disputes and such. Not that you need to worry about that!

 

[John]

I would love to play Civ5 but cant because it requires Steam. My PC is used as an audio workstation running Cubase5+VSTi and Yamaha/Steinberg drivers that only play nice with 32bit systems. I have had Steam on there and that basically breaks the ability to use any audio production applications. If I had a dedicated gaming rig then fine Steam all the way, but as it stands now I have to choose games that are mostly disc based besides EVE. Bizarrely, I have no negative issues with Impulse/Sins/GalCiv being on this PC.

I'm on Cubase 4, does this mean that I shouldn't make the jump from XP to 7 on my audio rig?

 

[The Shift]

It's not like you're going to be making music while playing Civ 5 (at least I hope that isn't the case). If you close Steam, there should be no conflicts with your other programs.

Yeah - I do realise that it's just a risky proposition right now for me. I could go and download Steam and purchase Civ5 but if that breaks my system in anyway then I have to do a clean install and lose some $'s because the audio production takes precedent. Drivers for audio hardware are notorious when it comes to system stability. Yamaha/Steinberg are probably the worst offenders and especially for legacy hardware like the 01x+i88x mLan system I run which I can't get away from as that investment cost me over 5k with included software.

If I close Steam does it kill all associated processes in that session?

 

[coopolon]

If you're talking about VAC bans then there's a great solution.

Don't hack.

Right, because Valve has never VAC banned people who weren't hacking before...

I have pretty mixed feelings on Steam. Generally, I try to treat it as a long term rental process and pay accordingly. When I buy a game on steam or one linked to Steam I assume someday someone will tell me I'm not allowed to play that game anymore , and so I only am willing to pay a long term rental fee. There are exceptions to this, most notably when friends of mine are playing games I want to join them and Steam is the only option i.e. Civ V and the Left 4 Deads. For all three of those games I've paid much more (MSRP or close to it). But even then I knew what I was getting into.

And I certainly appreciate a lot of the perks Steam brings to the table, and it brings a lot. I'm happy it exists. I do wish less people would use Steamworks though, especially games I want to play like Fallout New Vegas, I really want to play that game but refuse to pay $50 for a single player rental.

One of the most annoying things about Steam actually is the inability to have two accounts active at the same time. In order for me and my finacee to be playing two games I've bought at the same time one of us has to go into offline mode, which despite all the assurances in this thread, as recently as earlier this year was still incredibly buggy.

Edit: And the inability to give or sell games. But that's hardly a problem exclusive to Steam these days.

 

[The Shift]

I'm on Cubase 4, does this mean that I shouldn't make the jump from XP to 7 on my audio rig?

It's more to do with what audio hardware you are running and as you more than likely know with Cubase having many background processes running whilst doing audio production is a big no-no. Win7 32bit should be fine for C4 but look into whether your audio hardware has stable drivers available for Win7 64 bit which is the far better way to go, especially for available ram.

 

[jambo]

Right, because Valve has never VAC banned people who weren't hacking before...

I have pretty mixed feelings on Steam. Generally, I try to treat it as a long term rental process and pay accordingly. When I buy a game on steam or one linked to Steam I assume someday someone will tell me I'm not allowed to play that game anymore , and so I only am willing to pay a long term rental fee. There are exceptions to this, most notably when friends of mine are playing games I want to join them and Steam is the only option i.e. Civ V and the Left 4 Deads. For all three of those games I've paid much more (MSRP or close to it). But even then I knew what I was getting into.

And I certainly appreciate a lot of the perks Steam brings to the table, and it brings a lot. I'm happy it exists. I do wish less people would use Steamworks though, especially games I want to play like Fallout New Vegas, I really want to play that game but refuse to pay $50 for a single player rental.

One of the most annoying things about Steam actually is the inability to have two accounts active at the same time. In order for me and my finacee to be playing two games I've bought at the same time one of us has to go into offline mode, which despite all the assurances in this thread, as recently as earlier this year was still incredibly buggy.

Edit: And the inability to give or sell games. But that's hardly a problem exclusive to Steam these days.

Valve have a plan in place in case Steam has to close, which in unlock all of your games. They've had it in place for years.

Not sure what you mean about the 2 accounts thing, do you mean 1 account being run at the same time on 2 different PCs or two accounts being run at the same time on the 1 PC?

Being able to sell or gift your games to other accounts might be useful but it'd probably be very difficult for Valve to implement. Plus imagine if someone gained access to your account and then gifted all of your games away O_O At least nowadays all they can do is play them.

He's talking about payment disputes and such. Not that you need to worry about that!

Yeah but even then, it clearly states there are no refunds except for pre-orders, so if you do a charge back it's your own fault for not reading the TOS.

 

[Hellsing321]

About the only problem I have with Steam is account security. I've had my account hacked before and getting it back was a relatively easy process but I'd like it if Valve made an authenticator app for Smartphones like Blizzard has for Battle.net accounts.

 

[speculawyer]

Its possible. Its also possible to play PC games while someone punches you in the balls, but why would you want that?

This says it best.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

I may not always play PC games, but when I do, I prefer Steam.

 

[InfiniteNine]

It is possible otherwise I wouldn't be considering getting a proper PC. DD is okay and all, but I don't really feel like I own anything from it. It's nice having a proper box and the game on a disc for me. I look forward to finally playing The Last Remnant and getting PSO2 when it comes out.

 

[Ferga]

Minecraft forever!!!!! Derppppp

 

[Fredescu]

Valve have a plan in place in case Steam has to close, which in unlock all of your games. They've had it in place for years.

There has never been an official statement confirming this.

 

[brain_stew]

It is possible otherwise I wouldn't be considering getting a proper PC. DD is okay and all, but I don't really feel like I own anything from it. It's nice having a proper box and the game on a disc for me. I look forward to finally playing The Last Remnant

Uhm, you might have a bit of a problem there considering TLR is a Steamworks title.

 

[brain_stew]

Steam comes with an application, that's why it's so much worse.

What the hell type of computer do you have that a small 15MB background process is such a big concern to you!? This isn't the 1990s anymore modern, OSes actually have decent memory management.

 

[Stallion Free]

Man, I feel like some people in this thread are gonna hate the future.

I have been there and there ain't none of that physical copy shit going on.

 

[shintoki]

Uhm, you might have a bit of a problem there considering TLR is a Steamworks title.

Got my copy for 10$ too. ^_^

 

[InfiniteNine]

Uhm, you might have a bit of a problem there considering TLR is a Steamworks title.

Are you saying this box is empty?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QA2TYS/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Fredescu]

Are you saying this box is empty?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QA2TYS/?tag=neogaf0e-20

It's not empty, but it ties to Steam when you install it and requires Steam to run. You shouldn't have to download anything from Steam, but you will have to launch it in online mode at least once before setting it to offline mode and forgetting about it if that's what you want to do.

 

[InfiniteNine]

It's not empty, but it ties to Steam when you install it and requires Steam to run. You shouldn't have to download anything from Steam, but you will have to launch it in online mode at least once before setting it to offline mode and forgetting about it if that's what you want to do.

Well I don't really have a problem doing that since I already have Steam and an account on it.

 

[brain_stew]

Are you saying this box is empty?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QA2TYS/?tag=neogaf0e-20

It might as well be. The game needs to be registered and updated through Steam and won't run without Steam. The actual discs might save you a few minutes downloading but that's about it.

Some retail Steamworks titles these days don't even include a disc. Just a code in a box, pretty sure Audiosurf did precisely this.

 

[Fredescu]

Well I don't really have a problem doing that since I already have Steam and an account on it.

Oh. One interpretation of your post is that you wouldn't be considering getting a PC if you couldn't avoid Steam altogether, but I guess you meant buying DD without having a box and disk with it. After a Steam sale or two you might forget all about that.

The actual discs might save you a few minutes downloading but that's about it.

People that can download 9GB+ in a few minutes make me very jealous. Installing from the disks saves you a day if you have shitty internet.

 

[brain_stew]

Oh. One interpretation of your post is that you wouldn't be considering getting a PC if you couldn't avoid Steam altogether, but I guess you meant buying DD without having a box and disk with it. After a Steam sale or two you might forget all about that.


People that can download 9GB+ in a few minutes make me very jealous. Installing from the disks saves you a day if you have shitty internet.

With most retail Steamworks titles you usually have to download several GBs of data anyway, especially older titles that have been patched. Even on an "average" ~5mbps internet connection, you're really not saving that much time in the end.

Installing TF2 from a disc for example, is not a particularly good idea, no matter how terrible your internet connection.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Oh. One interpretation of your post is that you wouldn't be considering getting a PC if you couldn't avoid Steam altogether, but I guess you meant buying DD without having a box and disk with it. After a Steam sale or two you might forget all about that.


People that can download 9GB+ in a few minutes make me very jealous. Installing from the disks saves you a day if you have shitty internet.

Well I'm fine with using Steam I'd just like something to hold onto for ownership. Already tried a Steam sale and I won't be giving up the box anytime soon and wish I bought L4D2 with a box.

Yeah, my internet is pretty shitty so if the disks save me a couple of hours downloading shit I'd be happy.

 

[brain_stew]

Well I'm fine with using Steam I'd just like something to hold onto for ownership. .

So long as you realise that plastic disc and box is completely useless/worthless and gives you no extra flexibility or ownership rights over a digitally purchased copy. Heck, if you value plastic boxes so much you could have had one of the dozen L4D2 boxes I threw out the other day.

 

[Nabs]

Yeah - I do realise that it's just a risky proposition right now for me. I could go and download Steam and purchase Civ5 but if that breaks my system in anyway then I have to do a clean install and lose some $'s because the audio production takes precedent. Drivers for audio hardware are notorious when it comes to system stability. Yamaha/Steinberg are probably the worst offenders and especially for legacy hardware like the 01x+i88x mLan system I run which I can't get away from as that investment cost me over 5k with included software.

If I close Steam does it kill all associated processes in that session?

Honestly, I can't tell you to do anything that could potentially mess up your system. I know how messed up old audio drivers can be. I'd do it, but that's because I'm reckless.

Man, I feel like some people in this thread are gonna hate the future.

I have been there and there ain't none of that physical copy shit going on.

Discs? Where we're going, we don't need discs.

 

[water_wendi]

Man, I feel like some people in this thread are gonna hate the future.

I have been there and there ain't none of that physical copy shit going on.

i saw this bold new future when GOG went down for 4 days. ill pass.

 

[Stallion Free]

i saw this bold new future when GOG went down for 4 days. ill pass.

So you are giving up gaming?

 

[InfiniteNine]

So long as you realise that plastic disc and box is completely useless/worthless and gives you no extra flexibility or ownership rights over a digitally purchased copy. Heck, if you value plastic boxes so much you could have had one of the dozen L4D2 boxes I threw out the other day.

Well I find some value in them and that's all that matters, and it's not like all games are Steamworks titles either. I just feel more comfortable owning a box and disc with a CD key than I do with a flag on my account with a CD key online saying I bought it. I don't mind updating so much since that is pretty much the norm with patch fixes and such for PC games, but I want some physical ownership on my side.

 

[speculawyer]

Man, I feel like some people in this thread are gonna hate the future.

I have been there and there ain't none of that physical copy shit going on.

They'll get over it. I used to worry about it. I like box art. And I like manuals. But I got over it. PDFs for manuals are fine.

And the low cost of games during Steam sales and the (near) instant gratification of buying, downloading, and then playing more than makes up for it.


And strangely, you even start to love it. Even if you have a physical copy, you buy it again on steam because you like knowing it is there in your account. Up in the cloud . . ready at any time. You can download it where ever you are and start playing.