PC launchers besides Steam and GOG have no right to exist.

Moochi

Member
XBOX pc app has eaten my save games for Persona 5 and Like a Dragon multiple times. Each time the only solution is to delete the entire install, re-download, and pray the cloud saves are up to date. The XBOX app crashes I'd left open. The video trailers wont consistently open full screen, and when they stream at all it's in halty 240p. If not for the huge library of GamePass games, I would delete this cancer from my system immediately.

And let's not even get into the EA app. If they want to people to play those games, they should be integrated into the Xbox app. Separate logins and installers is completely unforgivable. I won't play those games even if they're free.
 
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And the price for that is that GOG will never have games from those studios that require some form of protection. So...yeah. What a win.

(I am glad GOG exists, but I am equally glad Steam exists, for many reasons)

And if a company forces DRM, then they are massive cunts.

Truly such a loss /s
 
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ScHlAuChi

Member
Valve do more with Steam than Epic does with EGS. Besides the obvious free games.
At the end of the day Steam is a store with some neat features where you can buy stuff.
Does it matter that one store is abit better than the other?
Certainly not for me - I buy a game to play the game - not to "play" the damn store :p

Ask any gamedev what they would prefer:
A) giving up 30% of their revenue for Steam´s extra features
B) giving up 12% of their revenue for less features on EGS
The answer will be always be B!
The reason why they still release on Steam is NOT becasue Steam is a better service!
It´s because Steam is a quasi monopoly and the devs have no other choice!
 
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iSupremacyX

Member
Yeah it's a pain knowing what game i have where, and gog galaxy 2 seems to be a good option but i dont think it's quite there yet - something still off not making me want to use it daily.
 

Ryllix_

Member
This is one of the ways that using Linux makes my life easier for gaming (It's not always easier as it sometimes includes tinkering with stuff.) On Linux I have Steam and Heroic Launcher. Heroic handles Gog and Epic all in one app. I can also use Lutris if I need something from EA or Blizzard or some other random service and then launch the lutris installed app through steam. Heroic is also infinitely a better experience than using either the Epic Store or GOG Galaxy which I find both to be pretty terrible (gog less so, but still not great).
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
At the end of the day Steam is a store with some neat features where you can buy stuff.
Does it matter that one store is abit better than the other?
Certainly not for me - I buy a game to play the game - not to "play" the damn store :p

Ask any gamedev what they would prefer:
A) giving up 30% of their revenue for Steam´s extra features
B) giving up 12% of their revenue for less features on EGS
The answer will be always be B!
The reason why they still release on Steam is NOT becasue Steam is a better service!
It´s because Steam is a quasi monopoly and the devs have no other choice!

Steam isn't a monopoly. Ubisoft tried to sell their games on both Uplay and EGS, and it didn't work. Meanwhile Epic had 4 years to improve their store, and almost nothing has happened besides barely working achievements that 90% of games released on EGS don't have, and a shopping cart.
 

rofif

Member
I wish Steam would remember what made it great. Personally I really dislike the platform these days. The only thing it has going for it for me is the sales - otherwise I would never touch it.

Its UI is abyssmal. It lacks consistency across the board and can’t pick a particular style it wants to be. There is a lack of relevant information in the games section where you are often filled to bloat with pointless additions like Cards, Emblems, discussions (which either have overly restricitive/borderline abusive moderation like Era/Reddit, or zero moderation and is completely dead), screenshots, a “mod” download spot (which is useless in general as almost any worthwhile mod is available on NexusMods as it has been for over a decade now). Now they added ugly as sin customization options which further muddle any design sense this service once had and points to buy random things for your profile which is also incredibly bloated and poorly designed. Nothing flows well.

I just want a very clean and organized storefront, DRM free games, a quick in-game chat/voice chat feature via an overlay, and that is all that is needed. Hell, even the last two you dont need since everyone and their mother just uses Discord anyway, which has an overlay feature.
Kids eat this crap up. My Nephew died inside when he noticed I have 50k unused steam points or whatever.
And the fact that for years now, steam UI is broken when you use scaling is crazy
 

rofif

Member
PC gamers who rave on about it being an open platform, the ability to mod games and buy keys but then go on and act like they can’t be bothered to use another launcher are certified insane. Clown shoes.

It’s a PC, take the hint already.
Here !!!
my ass!!!
FUCK IT !!!

pron spanking GIF
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
At the end of the day Steam is a store with some neat features where you can buy stuff.
Does it matter that one store is abit better than the other?
Certainly not for me - I buy a game to play the game - not to "play" the damn store :p

Ask any gamedev what they would prefer:
A) giving up 30% of their revenue for Steam´s extra features
B) giving up 12% of their revenue for less features on EGS
The answer will be always be B!
The reason why they still release on Steam is NOT becasue Steam is a better service!
It´s because Steam is a quasi monopoly and the devs have no other choice!
Look up steam works. Steam is much more than a store. They provide services for game devs to utilize.
 

Drizzlehell

Member
Agreed with everything said in the OP.

This stuff is such a pain in the ass that I genuinely passed on certain games if they required me to buy them through some shit launcher that I didn't want. I only played Godfall once it came out on Steam. I can't remember the last time I even installed Battle.net. I wanted to play Starcraft a couple of times but I just abandoned the idea because of this launcher shit. It's the only reason why I switched to playing Call of Duty on a console. I even repurchased some games that were tied to Bethesda, Ubisoft, or EA launchers on a console just so I wouldn't have to deal with this bullshit.
 

ScHlAuChi

Member
Look up steam works. Steam is much more than a store. They provide services for game devs to utilize.
I dont need to look that up, I released games on Steam - Steamworks isnt worth giving up 18% of your revenue for the features they offer compared to EGS.
 
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The Stig

Member
I understand the complaint, but Monopolies are always bad.

Steam is my preferred platform but I appreciate GoG. EA and Ubi can go do one. Their launchers are awful.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
Steam is so ahead of the curve that it's just embarrassing for the competition. And its very hardware to convince someone with a somewhat big library on steam to scatter their games on two different storefronts.
 

nkarafo

Member
Yearning for the days of lost save games and updates you have to search and apply.

You can always backup your offline saves. I never lost a save in 20+ years of gaming on PC.

And finding updates was never an issue in the past. It's only now that they can't be found since they got completely replaced by automatic online updates.
 
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//DEVIL//

Member
I don't mind a couple of launchers here and there. honestly, it never did bother me. they are all under the PC umbrella or what you call ( windows launcher ). The only launcher that auto-start with my PC is Steam, rest is in the background, and whenever I want to play from the launcher Ill open it. problem solved.

what I can't personally stand is a launcher inside a launcher. I just bought 3 games from steam ( red dead 2/ witcher 3 / cyber punk ) if ANY of them will require another launcher, I am requesting a refund. Do not force a launcher when you have your game on a launcher already. this shit needs to stop )
 

Crayon

Member
Steam as a platform decimates every other PC launcher and all consoles. It's so far ahead is not even funny. Big picture modes ugly but they're working on it with the steam deck UI. What counts is how easy it is to use, browse and shop, and what kind of features it brings the table. The gap to the competition is outrageous.

At the end of the day Steam is a store with some neat features where you can buy stuff.
Does it matter that one store is abit better than the other?
Certainly not for me - I buy a game to play the game - not to "play" the damn store :p

Ask any gamedev what they would prefer:
A) giving up 30% of their revenue for Steam´s extra features
B) giving up 12% of their revenue for less features on EGS
The answer will be always be B!
The reason why they still release on Steam is NOT becasue Steam is a better service!
It´s because Steam is a quasi monopoly and the devs have no other choice!

That's cool if you don't actuallyy use those features or want to help epic out. For me a steam version of a game is practically a superior verson because I use that some of that stuff.

Anyone publishing a game wants to pay less cut I'm sure. I bet they would even more like to get paid up front for an exclusive deal. Not batting an eye over that. As far as steam having what you call a quasi-monopoly, I predict it will stay that way until someone else can come up with a platform that compares.
 

ScHlAuChi

Member
Steam as a platform decimates every other PC launcher and all consoles. It's so far ahead is not even funny. Big picture modes ugly but they're working on it with the steam deck UI. What counts is how easy it is to use, browse and shop, and what kind of features it brings the table. The gap to the competition is outrageous.
You might not realize it, but that isnt a good thing. The reason why Valve has been stagnating in the last decade is becasue they lack competition.

That's cool if you don't actuallyy use those features or want to help epic out. For me a steam version of a game is practically a superior verson because I use that some of that stuff.
I dont want to help out Epic nor do I care about them - I care about competition - competition is good for the market, developers and the consumer, its Economy 101 - even you should understand that.

Anyone publishing a game wants to pay less cut I'm sure. I bet they would even more like to get paid up front for an exclusive deal. Not batting an eye over that. As far as steam having what you call a quasi-monopoly, I predict it will stay that way until someone else can come up with a platform that compares.
I´m calling it quasi monopoly becasue the antitrust lawsuit against Valve is still ongoing:
And wether its EGS or goverments that bring that competition I dont care - as long as it happens!
 

Crayon

Member
You might not realize it, but that isnt a good thing. The reason why Valve has been stagnating in the last decade is becasue they lack competition.


I dont want to help out Epic nor do I care about them - I care about competition - competition is good for the market, developers and the consumer, its Economy 101 - even you should understand that.


I´m calling it quasi monopoly becasue the antitrust lawsuit against Valve is still ongoing:
And wether its EGS or goverments that bring that competition I dont care - as long as it happens!

Are you sane steam being way out ahead with functionality is a bad thing? I might not realize it?

As far as valve stagnating for the last decade, that must mean other stores are about to catch up any day now. They're so intent on being competitive after all.

Look I've done the valve versus epic thing. The critiques of valve tend to be specious instead of real stuff. Like a real problem I have is why did they give a break in the cut only to massively selling games? There must have been some way to spread that out among smaller studios. I guess things like that are kind of boring, though. And not exactly going to lend much weight to the idea that they are holding pc gaming back with their iron fist.
 
I don’t think it’s a big deal. Sounds like one of those problems that makes you realize how good you have it if this is what you’re concerned with. Not to mention the space needs competition. Steam is big and likely get bigger. Is that a good thing?
 
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Griffon

Member
Honestly? I don't care how many launchers I have installed on my computer. It's just one click away to play such and such game, and it keeps the competition healthy and honest.

The fact that Origin, Ubi, Epic, Battlenet and GoG all work on the Steam Deck is a godsend.
 

ScHlAuChi

Member
Are you sane steam being way out ahead with functionality is a bad thing? I might not realize it?
No that isnt a bad thing, lack of competition is - look up the AT&T case and how that ended.
It had nothing to do with any functionality that AT&T offered - it had to do with their dominating market position stifling the market.
Only after the goverment broke them up the market changed into what we have today where multiple companies compete.
We have a similar situation with Steam - which is why the courts reopened the antitrust case against them.
Regardless of how good or bad Valve´s service is - a single dominating player is never a good thing in any market!

As far as valve stagnating for the last decade, that must mean other stores are about to catch up any day now. They're so intent on being competitive after all.
No, Valve can stagnate and still keep their dominant market position as the normal market forces dont work when there is a single dominant player.
If you want to sell a PC game, you HAVE to be on Steam and sign away 30% of your profits - or you will fail.

It is almost impossible to catch up for any competitor, just look at how much money Epic had to invest already to gain a small fraction of that market share.
All the other competitors with less money already failed. Valve uses a "Most Favored Nation" pricing model, so you cannot sell your game for less on a competitors platform.
The only way to offer a lower price is to not be on Steam, which is why some games go EGS exclusive.

Look I've done the valve versus epic thing. The critiques of valve tend to be specious instead of real stuff. Like a real problem I have is why did they give a break in the cut only to massively selling games? There must have been some way to spread that out among smaller studios. I guess things like that are kind of boring, though. And not exactly going to lend much weight to the idea that they are holding pc gaming back with their iron fist.
This isnt a Valve versus Epic thing! It´s a Valve vs whoever can compete thing - and it doesnt matter if that competitor is Epic, GOG or whoever!
You can dismiss me saying that Valve dominating the market is bad, but you can hardly dismiss official goverment reports that say the same thing for any market:
TLDR version: Companies not competing is bad for the economy and bad for the consumer!
Good luck arguing against that!
 
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mxbison

Member
Steam was also forced upon players and is full of unnecessary shit that GOG doesn't do.

Why is Steam ok and the rest isn't?
 
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In essence I agree with you, it would better if someone could challenge Steam and lower platform holder fees. It would indeed be very hard for any single publisher to do so.

However, if the big third party publishers were to join forces and create one single client together, and make their games at least timed exclusives, that would be something most PC gamers would need to install. The problem is, the publishers are just too greedy to do this. They want all the spotlight and fees for themselves. And they don’t care much about the user experience either while Valve at least tries. They’ve also had a long time to do this if they wanted, Steam didn’t just become massive overnight. So I’m gonna say, nobody except maybe Epic has even tried to challenge Valve. And Epic still has a long way to go. When you don’t have major games like Elden Ring on your store, you can’t expect people to choose you.

It does suck that indie devs are caught in the middle of this and essentially have no say. So yes, I hope Epic can eventually become a real competitor.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
You might not realize it, but that isnt a good thing. The reason why Valve has been stagnating in the last decade is becasue they lack competition.
and the competition hasn't been encouraging valve to make any ballsy moves... infact, valve has pretty much been doing that themselves without any incentive. The competition is useless and nothing would change if it didnt exist. That's not what competition is supposed to do
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
what's the issue with a monopoly when everyone stepping up to challenge that monopoly can't even do anything better? how is that competition? Besides Steam and GOG literally every other launcher has nothing to offer, they put their games on steam, they don't even offer any special features like social features or workshop, they exist just to bloat your PC. What are they doing that is so competitive? Competition isn't just another launcher existing, competition is when another launcher exists and has something to offer that steam doesnt, in the case of GOG it's no DRM games. They're the only company that's tried
 

soulbait

Member
What a bizzare stance. Usually when I do not like something and prefer a different solution/competitor, I just only use the one that I prefer. I do not state that the one I do not like does not have the right to exist. What an odd way to approach the world: "I do not like X so therefore it should not exist."

You are not the main character in this world; just because you do not like something, or even if the majority does not like something, it does not mean others cannot like it. Options are always a good thing, even if you do not like the other options. They drive competition.
 

soulbait

Member
That’s not what he’s talking about. It’s the fact that Epic goes out of their way to pay companies to only put their game on the epic game store for like a year. So usually many PC gamers have to wait a year for it to come to pc from console, and THEN have to wait another year if they want to buy it on any pc store other than epic.

Or... they could install Epic Game store and get the game that way.... :p
 
I vastly prefer Steam and GOG, I'll never use Epic, and I find other launchers often annoying, but I wouldn't want a marketplace without the possibility of competition.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
You might not realize it, but that isnt a good thing. The reason why Valve has been stagnating in the last decade is becasue they lack competition.


I dont want to help out Epic nor do I care about them - I care about competition - competition is good for the market, developers and the consumer, its Economy 101 - even you should understand that.


I´m calling it quasi monopoly becasue the antitrust lawsuit against Valve is still ongoing:
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And wether its EGS or goverments that bring that competition I dont care - as long as it happens!

Valve stagnating? Lol. They are so far beyond every other launcher and consoles that it’s ridiculous.

The problem is nobody is bringing competition. I don’t give a shit what they do for developers, I give a shit about what they’re doing for me. There’s a good way of competing and a bad way, and Epic chooses to play the timed exclusivity game that’s only been seen on consoles. Removing my option of where to buy my games from, and causing prices to remain higher. They tried the 18% tactic thinking it would drive developers to their store, when in reality it’s where games go to die. They’d be better off taking 30% so they can offer useful features like gift cards. You can’t even use the VR features from Epic Store games - you have to use Steam!

GoG has been great doing their own thing, but the downfall is there’s hundreds of games that don’t get released there because of their DRM free policy.

The antitrust suit is a joke from a shit tier developer.

People like to shit on Valve, when the reality is they’re successful for being the best in the business. They earned their spot. These massive corporations like Epic expect to buy their way in, instead of earning it by doing players right.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
The problem is nobody is bringing competition.
^^^^^^^

There is a difference between existing pointlessly and actually bringing competition. Epic, EA, Uplay, Origin, etc... are all pointless, unneeded launchers. GOG is actual competition. They offer retro games with 0 strings attached and no DRM, and they're all cheap as well. Even the Xbox launcher understands this with Gamepass, which is way better than Epic's free games thing.

What is the point of your store existing, if it has nothing over Steam? Nothing over GOG? Nothing over Xbox? you might as well just release your games on Steam and suck up the 30% fee since you'll never make a sale, not with any defining feature to bring people over to your platform.

This was what i was trying to say in the OP but people misconstrued it and made me out to be some selfish, egotistical asshole who wants everything i don't like to not exist
 
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ScHlAuChi

Member
Valve stagnating? Lol. They are so far beyond every other launcher and consoles that it’s ridiculous.
And how exactly does that launcher affect the future of video games?
When was the last time a Valve game made a dent in the market?
When was the last time Valve´s engine or technology was used by other companies or praised for its technical prowess?
How many projects have they started now only to leave them rotting after losing interest?

But keep drinking that Cool-Aid!

The problem is nobody is bringing competition. I don’t give a shit what they do for developers, I give a shit about what they’re doing for me. There’s a good way of competing and a bad way, and Epic chooses to play the timed exclusivity game that’s only been seen on consoles. Removing my option of where to buy my games from, and causing prices to remain higher.
Nobody CAN compete, becasue the normal market forces do not work here! Were you asleep during economy classes?
Epic has no problem at all to have games on EGS and Steam at the same time as long as they can offer them for a lower price!
But they cant because Valve´s Most Favored Nation clause prevents anyone from selling the game for less on any other store.
This means Valve is abusing their market power to not have to ever compete on price - which is what the antitrust lawsuit is about.
Therefore the developers/publishers have no choice but to go EGS exclusive!

GoG has been great doing their own thing, but the downfall is there’s hundreds of games that don’t get released there because of their DRM free policy.
The antitrust suit is a joke from a shit tier developer.
People like to shit on Valve, when the reality is they’re successful for being the best in the business. They earned their spot. These massive corporations like Epic expect to buy their way in, instead of earning it by doing players right.
If best in business means getting an F in customer service for almost a decade in a row and not changing a thing then I dont know what "best" means in your case.
To me it sounds like you´re a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome, as otherwise I cannot explain how you can ignore simple economic realities.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
When was the last time Valve´s engine or technology was used or praised?
literally 3 years ago with half life alyx, it looks stunning and has much better physics than Half Life 2 or any previous valve game. 3 years later and it's still a candidate for the best VR game of all time. actually, 8 months ago with the Steam Deck.
more importantly... this is about launchers here. Valve's other ventures have nothing to do with the convo
Nobody CAN compete, becasue the normal market forces do not work here! Were you asleep during economy classes?
they can, all they have to do is make a launcher that has a good reason to exist. Make a launcher with a gimmick or a feature that will drive customers over to your area. only GOG and Xbox have done this
If epic wanted to they can make a launcher more feature complete, more interesting, more stable than steam and they'd drive millions of users over... but they don't, they instead rely on timed exclusivity and 'free games' (which are frankly not very useful when you have to use Epic's launcher to even access them)
But they cant because Valve´s Most Favored Nation clause prevents anyone from selling the game for less on any other store.
so? that just means the store has to rely on other things like features and usability to get by. even when the odds are stacked against you like this you can still fight back in other ways
Again steam got big because it's more feature complete and more pro consumer than any other launcher out there. Epic has the resources to make a launcher that good but they refuse to. Same for EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard, etc....

If Sony could usurp Nintendo with their totalitarian rules on the developers and gaming industry there's no reason why Epic who's dealing in a much easier and simpler market can't even reach anywhere close to how big Steam is.
 
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ScHlAuChi

Member
literally 3 years ago with half life alyx, it looks stunning and has much better physics than Half Life 2 or any previous valve game. 3 years later and it's still a candidate for the best VR game of all time. actually, 8 months ago with the Steam Deck.
more importantly... this is about launchers here. Valve's other ventures have nothing to do with the convo
3 years ago! In the niche VR market!
Valve isnt just Steam.

they can, all they have to do is make a launcher that has a good reason to exist. Make a launcher with a gimmick or a feature that will drive customers over to your area. only GOG and Xbox have done this
Making a better launcher wont make anyone switch to it - people will still stay on Steam.
GOG has barely any market share and is close to dying.
Xbox has barely any share in the PC market.

If epic wanted to they can make a launcher more feature complete, more interesting, more stable than steam and they'd drive millions of users over... but they don't, they instead rely on timed exclusivity and 'free games' (which are frankly not very useful when you have to use Epic's launcher to even access them)
Yes, sounds great, make a better product and ppl will switch in droves!
We saw that happening with Betamax where ppl picked it over VHS casue it was superior - oh wait we didnt!

so? that just means the store has to rely on other things like features and usability to get by. even when the odds are stacked against you like this you can still fight back in other ways
Again steam got big because it's more feature complete and more pro consumer than any other launcher out there. Epic has the resources to make a launcher that good but they refuse to. Same for EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard, etc....
Except preventing price competition isnt exactly legal as it stifles the competiton - hence the antitrust lawsuit.

If Sony could usurp Nintendo with their totalitarian rules on the developers and gaming industry there's no reason why Epic who's dealing in a much easier and simpler market can't even reach anywhere close to how big Steam is.
Sony usurped Nintendo thanks to better technology and games. Valve is not doing either!
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Sony usurped Nintendo thanks to better technology and games. Valve is not doing either!
.... they are. Half Life Alyx is a better game than anything Epic has made in the past 10 years. Epic has never made any physical product while Valve has made an amazing VR headset and the best handheld game system. Both of which received rave reviews

Yes, sounds great, make a better product and ppl will switch in droves!
We saw that happening with Betamax where ppl picked it over VHS casue it was superior - oh wait we didnt!
Betamax was expensive and not all movies were on it, VHS was simpler and cheaper... and that's the one example you can think of where people didnt switch to the superior format.
Apple made a better product than nokia, the result is that Nokia's dead and no one uses flip phones anymore
Cars were better than horse carriages, the result is that no one uses horses anymore
LCDs were smaller and had more clear picture quality than CRT, the result is that CRTs are long gone, even if they are better for old games
word processors were faster than pen and paper, the result is that you can't enter one office without finding a computer...
Kindles were more convenient than books, the result is that books are gone.
Amazon was superior to buying stuff outside, the result is that they're one of the most profitable companies in the world... so on and so forth
 
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lachesis

Gold Member
We live in free society, so they should have every right to do so.
Also it's a free society (at least I hope you do live in one), that it's OUR free choice not to install them if we don't want to.

It's like you can't get IKEA furniture at local antique store... same thing, more or less!
 

ScHlAuChi

Member
.... they are. Half Life Alyx is a better game than anything Epic has made in the past 10 years. Epic has never made any physical product while Valve has made an amazing VR headset and the best handheld game system. Both of which received rave reviews
Better is subjective of course, I take Alyx over Fortnite any day, but technically Fortnite is way more advanced than anything Alyx does.

Betamax was expensive and not all movies were on it, VHS was simpler and cheaper... and that's the one example you can think of where people didnt switch to the superior format.
You just supported my argument - Even if a competitor was cheaper than Steam then people would still buy on steam becasue not all games are on the competitor store.
Therefore competing by having a better launcher wont really help much!
 
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