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PCGamesN: "Why I'm uninstalling Windows 8"
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
minus the start menu, sure. the desktop can be launched like any other app. the start menu is replaced by the start screen launcher
there is no native old-style start menu you can revert to, but there are 3rd party apps that mimic it like the new samsung crap
I see, that does not see so critical then
I rarely used the start manu anyway, i just want the desktop for my folders, that is the major concern
I am certainly staying with Windows 7, i dont see any reason why i would upgrade right now TBH
mescalineeyes
Banned
RIP Mac OS X, we barely knew ye.
My post was not meant to be a justification of metro as a whole, or an explanation of the entirety of what metro is or why it exists.
I just thought it was worth highlighting that the metro start screen actually delivers on a few points Microsoft has struggled with in the past. Things that I, at least, had felt were shortcomings of the desktop.
Though, it wasn't free. The cost was that the start menu became a modal, full-screen dialog. A trade off for sure.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Honest question: what need is being served by a Start Menu that only takes up a small amount of the screen, as opposed to a Metro menu which takes up the whole screen?
I mean, you are searching for something to launch, right? Are you really looking over the Start Menu's shoulder back at your current tasks all the time? The need to only take up a fraction of the screen implies that you are multi-tasking... but I can't figure out why you'd be multi-tasking between launching something and doing other work. Once you decide you are launching something, you really should never be focused on anything else until you have launched it. If you aren't launching something, you shouldn't be looking at Start or Metro.
I like how you open Metro, and the focus of "you are launching a program now" is the only thing on your mind. Plus the added real estate more easily allows you to find that program.
I'm sympathetic to people who want to watch a video while they word process, etc. But the start menu? There's no point in dividing your attention between it and everything else.
THis so much this!
The only thing wrong with windows 8 as all the media lobbying against it if you actually spent 10 minutes with the os you will see that its just windows 7 will bells and whistles, and a lot of performance optimisations
Right, it really is not a critical issue. Even if you're really attached to the desktop it's an incredibly minor change/annoyance. The use case you gave (desktop folders) is completely supported in the same way as Windows 7 (and most previous versions)
Well, quite simply, I don't like having anything I use on my PC take up the whole screen. You have your peeves and I have mine. I also do multitask regularly and use the Start Menu whenever I do need to pull a program up for the most part.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I get that in a way, even though I am not the same.
Part of the appeal for the full screen for me is that I can pull it up and take up all my screen real estate/mind share, and then quickly have it go away.
Because changing your environment makes you forget what you were doing. People really do have terrible memories. You gain a lot when you can constantly see what you have been doing.
Ah, the "I like it and anyone who doesn't is an idiot" post.
Just because people don't like Metro on desktop does not mean they think it's totally useless - as I've said it is fine for touch, which is what you go on about so much in your dismissive post. But here's the issue - my desktop is not a touch interface, therefore, Metro is unnecessary for me. This does not mean I'm an "idiot".
But since you can have a desktop launched, you can have all the major programs pinned there as shortcuts, that is what i do in my wndows 7 PC anyway, i dont like searching start menu and barely ever use its shortcuts even
Generally i consider the start menu rather useless
I usually use alt+tab to change between programs too, i suppose this functionality is still there
It's very disorienting when your whole screen starts displaying something else rather than a part of it.
Still, it's going to be a great OS for my HTPC.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I would argue just the opposite.
Bringing up a launch environment tells my brain "you are to be focused on launching something".
Having all the other clutter of the workflow on-screen just confuses the process. "Was I launching... or....?" And the other elements on the screen don't necessarily inform as to what you should be launching. "Was I launching... or was I going to keep browsing that GAF chrome tab out of the corner of my eye?"
But of course, perhaps not everyone is the same. Maybe a start menu is more conducive to fast work for some.
Outside of its launch window, I've barely heard of Kinect.
Dreams-Visions
Member
there are either:
a.) A lot of legitimate complaints and problems with the Windows 8 UI choices
b.) A lot of websites looking to get some easy traffic by shitting on Windows 8.
Having not tried Win8 myself, I can't really say. I do know this: I've YET to read a glowing review of the OS. If this was a movie, it wouldn't be fresh at RottenTomatoes.
I wish them good luck with the release. I won't be upgrading, as Windows 7 isn't giving me any trouble.
a.) A lot of legitimate complaints and problems with the Windows 8 UI choices
b.) A lot of websites looking to get some easy traffic by shitting on Windows 8.
Having not tried Win8 myself, I can't really say. I do know this: I've YET to read a glowing review of the OS. If this was a movie, it wouldn't be fresh at RottenTomatoes.
I wish them good luck with the release. I won't be upgrading, as Windows 7 isn't giving me any trouble.
Like I said, I'd probably be okay with it if I could make it only take up a third of the screen when I'm on the desktop. I think letting people select whether Metro takes up the whole screen or just a third of it would be a perfect compromise for the needs of a touchscreen interface versus the needs of a keyboard and mouse interface.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I would not be opposed to choice. If it makes more people happy, they should do it.
As I said, I think there's a benefit to your entire PC shifting to a mode that says "you wanted to launch something? So what is it? Then get back to your normal scheduled PCing". It's a mode you can pull up, and send away, at the touch of a button.
It will. I don't think they planned it, but it will. I use Win 8 on a 50 inch plasma and I wouldn't want to go back. There's only so many frontends and such for movies and games... if you're manipulating a PC from far away, Metro stuff is superior to desktop.
Who is this dude from Gizmodo whose opinion I should take over Tim Edwards'? Especially when so much of what Edwards writes completely agrees with what I've experienced?
Personal anecdote time.
It was the time before 7. Then the preview came out. I said "XP is cool but let's try dual booting and see if 7 is good." 48 hours later 7 was the only OS on my PC. I never looked back. I never again dabbled with XP or various Linux distros as I used to do. For fuck's sake after doing a clean install of the retail version I never, ever had to re-format and re-install. Something I used to do once every six months with the previous OSs.
Now is the time before 8. The preview came out. I said "7 is great but let's try dual booting and see if 8 is good." I said "This interface sucks for mouse and keyboard." And I made it go away. Then, as I was using my PC I said "Hey, am I using 7 or 8 right now?" You see I wasn't using Metro at all. "What's the point?" I asked myself. "The file copy dialog is nice but so what?" So, 48 hours later 7 was the only OS on my computer.
I couldn't give any less of a fuck about ecosystems, about my PC talking to my XBOX (which I don't have) or my Windows Phone (which I'm not gonna get) or offering me services I already have. But most of all I am vehemently against the introduction of 'walled gardens' in PCs. Even if intially the legacy stuff remains as is, as soon as the moneyhatting and "accidental" gimping of legacy applications in favor of Metro apps and games starts, my experience as a PC user will be affected. In a negative way, mind you. You see, whenever faced with two options of similar merit I will automatically choose the one that's least controlled. That's why I chose Android over IOS and Windows Phone. That's why I will choose 7 or if need be Linux over 8.
Personal anecdote time.
It was the time before 7. Then the preview came out. I said "XP is cool but let's try dual booting and see if 7 is good." 48 hours later 7 was the only OS on my PC. I never looked back. I never again dabbled with XP or various Linux distros as I used to do. For fuck's sake after doing a clean install of the retail version I never, ever had to re-format and re-install. Something I used to do once every six months with the previous OSs.
Now is the time before 8. The preview came out. I said "7 is great but let's try dual booting and see if 8 is good." I said "This interface sucks for mouse and keyboard." And I made it go away. Then, as I was using my PC I said "Hey, am I using 7 or 8 right now?" You see I wasn't using Metro at all. "What's the point?" I asked myself. "The file copy dialog is nice but so what?" So, 48 hours later 7 was the only OS on my computer.
I couldn't give any less of a fuck about ecosystems, about my PC talking to my XBOX (which I don't have) or my Windows Phone (which I'm not gonna get) or offering me services I already have. But most of all I am vehemently against the introduction of 'walled gardens' in PCs. Even if intially the legacy stuff remains as is, as soon as the moneyhatting and "accidental" gimping of legacy applications in favor of Metro apps and games starts, my experience as a PC user will be affected. In a negative way, mind you. You see, whenever faced with two options of similar merit I will automatically choose the one that's least controlled. That's why I chose Android over IOS and Windows Phone. That's why I will choose 7 or if need be Linux over 8.
There is no benefit for almost any program to take up your entire screen on a PC, except for games and videos. Here's a simple use case example. I get an e-mail asking me for a document, I start typing in the search box to locate that document, but since the e-mail is gone now, I have to switch back and forth.
Unknown Soldier
Banned
Microsoft's desperation at their position going from dominance in the pre-iPhone era to total irrelevance in this era in mobile devices is what is driving this push to Metro-fy everything. The problem is that Metro is designed for touch-input devices, it's being shoehorned onto desktop PCs for no other reason than this desperation. Most desktop PC users are fine with the current desktop metaphor and don't want to re-learn basic UI functions just because MS want to re-enter the market for smartphones and tablets. The Metro UI in Windows 8 is being forced down our throats because of what MS wants, not what the user wants. It's cynicism and monopoly behavior at it's dumbest. That is the worst reason to change an OS and it will result in a pretty terrible backlash when Windows 8 ships.
That is debatable, on one hand indeed the user has to readjust
On the other hand the adjustment does not seem so hard and the idea of having a unified thing for desktop and tablets is very nice imo
Maybe some users will appreciate the new scheme, since they could have an easier way to transfer their work from desktop to tablet and back
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think there's a benefit to have the program launcher be an entirely different screen that pops up with a button push. But I'm not arguing for full-screen everything.
In multitasking scenarios, the desktop environment is best. You should probably live in that world on a keyboard and mouse Win 8 desktop. It's just nice to have the option to pop into app world & application launcher with the tap of a button.
Can't you use pulse or an rss reader like Im doing it now?
I hate Metro as much as anyone here, but you don't know how much UX studies Microsoft has already done on the UI. Things like the MS Office ribbons, which I DESPISE (and lots of other older users do as well), were UX tested to death and supposedly worked out much better than the older menus.
I HATE HATE HATE HATE the thought of having to use Metro, and won't be upgrading to W8 as a result, but it might be better for new users.
Exactly my same experience and thoughts. I used it for something like a month and after having to google how could I install unsigned drivers and dive into actually hidden and convoluted menus in the boot screen to activate it (not without all kind of warnings that I was going to fuck up my computer), I said "fuck this shit" and went back to 7.
Edit: I mean, what the fuck?
If this is not convoluted, over-complicated or just plain anti-user, I really don't know what is. Was it so hard to include a warning and double check you really want to install those drivers like in 7? Because when you try to install said drivers there's not any kind of error message or warning about not being signed or anything AT ALL, the system just refuses to install them without any kind of notice further than "Installation failed". I just thought the drivers were not Win8 compatible and the fact that they weren't signed and that it might be the reason didn't even cross my mind for a few hours.
Unknown Soldier
Banned
I hate the Office ribbons. Hate them to death. I'm just glad that I graduated from school before MS started shipping Office revisions with ribbon instead of menus and now I have to touch Microsoft Word once or twice a month, if that.
Gee, they could have included the "Classic UI" as an option in Windows 8 and avoided all these problems. Too bad they are too busy chasing the dust being left behind by iOS and Android.
But what do I do with my awesome wallpapers? I like a tidy Windows desktop so I can enjoy my awesome wallpapers. It makes me feel good inside.
Well, you can still access the old desktop, right? It's not enough to make me upgrade though. And even though I just delivered a spiel on potential UX benefits, there's also this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU
So it is a bit puzzling.
not psycho
Member
Show desktop and metro are both insufficient solutions for the same reason. Both of them take over your screen.
When I'm watching what someone else is saying in a program at the top of the screen, and opening searches/files/programs on the bottom of the screen, I can't afford my screen to black out like the power went out every time I do something.
Some people are acting like you can still open a search on the bottom half of the screen while reading the top of the screen. Is this true? Or is a full screen forced?
So is Windows basically the opposite of Star Trek?
Odd versions:
1: 1
3: 3/3.1
5: 2000/XP
7: 7
Even numbers:
2: 2
4: 95/NT4/98/ME
6: Vista
8: 8
The only one that's possibly an exception is the 4 tier - 95/NT4/98/ME, but I'd argue that while those were all over the place, only NT4 was a particularly *good* OS; the two branches were fairly solidly split at that point.
Odd versions:
1: 1
3: 3/3.1
5: 2000/XP
7: 7
Even numbers:
2: 2
4: 95/NT4/98/ME
6: Vista
8: 8
The only one that's possibly an exception is the 4 tier - 95/NT4/98/ME, but I'd argue that while those were all over the place, only NT4 was a particularly *good* OS; the two branches were fairly solidly split at that point.
HALO 3 EXCLUSIVELY ON WINDOWS 8
98 was good. When they added the SE, so basically it's a different one which shouldnt be there in the list.
Oh the memories. Plug and play my ass, more like plug and bsod. But when it worked...it was wonderful.
Catchy title to get hits, but what about the content?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
There is no benefit to the simple task of launching a program (which often happens in the middle of doing something else, at least for me) stealing your full focus away from everything else, when all it really needs is a small part of your attention while the rest of it remains directed at the current task. Nope, I don't buy it, not in a desktop PC environment.
I'm of the same mind, but probably for very different reasons. I cannot understand the people that don't hate it!
I sort of...almost...agree. Maybe in principle. But the implementation of Metro really is a mess. Applications doing unexpected things, about three different places to change different settings, things hidden in confusing places.
Also, when transitioning from Zune and WP7, Metro turned from one of the most beautiful OSes ever built to one of the gaudiest (they could have chosen worse colours if they'd tried, but they'd have to try pretty hard).
Conceptually, having two completely different OSes running at the same time could merely have been confusing. In practice, they've made it a clusterfuck.
Unknown Soldier
Banned
I just read the article. It's harsh from beginning to end.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I love wallpapers too. The desktop is still there, so....?
I like Windows 8, have been using it alongside Windows 7 and OSX Lion but find myself booting in Windows 8 pretty much all the time (still exclusively using desktop mode though, Metro doesn't make much sense to me with keyboard/mouse). The customer preview is only a small part of what Windows 8 entails, people who've attended the Microsoft sesisons at this year's GDC know what I'm talking about. I think it's 'next gen' in terms of human-computer interaction, it extends well beyond what OSX/IOS and Android offer at this time. So yeah, the customer preview might turn some people off. It makes it look like Windows 8 is just another Windows with more input options and a new interface.
UnblessedSoul
Member
Windows 8 is pretty much for tablets only, they forgot about keyboard and mouse being their core audience, I'll stick to windows 7 until they bring out a better OS
That video never fails to crack me up. The kid is a tool. But the chat from the live viewers on the screen in the background, along with that last line from the guys dad at the end of the video is just gold.
I will never get this statement.