Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Banking on the possibility of becoming internet famous.
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Penny Arcade is an awful place to work at. Come work for us!
- Thread starter robox
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Banking on the possibility of becoming internet famous.
Oppo
Member
It doesn't matter to me if they're rich or not, but what bugs me is this oddly transparent ploy of playing on PA's fame.
Like, shorter job ad could have read: need 4-in-1 skilled person to make Internet happen in all ways for us; pay will be average; treatment will be poor. But, you know, we're Penny Arcade, so.. yeah.
I don't see how keeping Jerry's email running could be considered life changing in any real way.
But Mike's Mercedes! The basement arcade! Sumo beanbags!
Which is primarily why I say they aren't going to pay this position terribly because they are not going to find someone willing to do all that is being asked. Even if they are a fan of PA. I also doubt they'd hire someone under qualified to be their only employee to handle those roles.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I wonder if Khoo pulls Gabe and Tycho into an office every other day and gets onto them for not milking their fanbase to its full potential.
About the "offensive" aspects of the job, thats the one part that I think people are going overboard with. Imagine working for south park, would it be reasonable to assume that they'd want people who aren't easily offended?
The worst part of the ad is the bit about making work as comfortable as possible instead of being well paid tho, its such bullshit. People just expect to have enough equipment to do their job correctly. They don't care about watching movies, playing videogames, eating pizza and drinking beer at work. Most people either chat or stare at their phones in their down time. Beyond a certain point you just see that money being spent and wish they'd pay you more, so you can cover your basic living expenses, save some money and have time to spend with family and friends. How awkward would it be working with a small team where the top 2 people earn that much, and force you to spend all your time with them for not much money. They probably expect everyone to treat them like gods.
The worst part of the ad is the bit about making work as comfortable as possible instead of being well paid tho, its such bullshit. People just expect to have enough equipment to do their job correctly. They don't care about watching movies, playing videogames, eating pizza and drinking beer at work. Most people either chat or stare at their phones in their down time. Beyond a certain point you just see that money being spent and wish they'd pay you more, so you can cover your basic living expenses, save some money and have time to spend with family and friends. How awkward would it be working with a small team where the top 2 people earn that much, and force you to spend all your time with them for not much money. They probably expect everyone to treat them like gods.
Not to particularly defend anyone but rather unfair to expect him to understand something he seemingly doesn't over night, especially when being bombarded with hate from the outset. This applies to everyone really since the very idea of a transgender individual is foreign to many people.
Steve Youngblood
Member
They're demanding a lot. If they were looking to pay a fair market price for these services, I don't understand why they preemptively play hardball in such a fashion. I really don't understand the benefit of the doubt you're giving them here. Clearly, they're looking to get someone at a bargain rate, otherwise they wouldn't have included that sentence. Negotiation is part of any salary discussion, and I understand that no company wants to overpay unnecessarily. However, most companies would probably also understand that they're going to have to pay a nice salary for what they're asking and wouldn't need to set low expectations before you've even sent in an application.
It doesn't take a lot of mental energy to simply empathize with a fellow human being rather than willingly and childishly question and misunderstand as Gabe did.
I think it probably helps if one is familiar with the inside of PA and how they hire. They expect a fan of PA to apply for this job. PA interviews are essentially contests, as they get so many replies they then have to narrow it down and run potential employees through a gauntlet. They've done this multiple times, including filming large portions of it for their PA documentary stuff.
In short, they're looking for someone who's already tailor-made to fit in at PA -- a fan who likes what they do and presumably likes the people they've seen at PA. My impression, from watching the last big hire, and from viewing their docs, is that it's a great place to work, if you're a workaholic who wants to live at work. Granted, part of living at workat PA involves video games in nearly every room, ping-pong games against Bungie, and participation in PAX, various documentaries, etc.
They're not hiring an employee as much as they're looking to hire a new family member. I have no idea what they actually mean in terms of pay (and neither does anyone else in this thread) but the fact that I've watched people try to get jobs there multiple times, even though they'd had to run a gauntlet the first time, suggests to me that the people working there enjoy doing so. That and the fact that they have a very low turnover rate. Most of the people in the PA offices have been there for years.
"Work is your family now", "living at work" etc. is a gross Western invention, made even worse by video game company crunch culture. I personally feel sorry for those who want to participate in some filmed circus sideshow to just be a lowly entry-level hire for PA.
entremet
Member
This is common in an lot of American firms. It's a culture fit as well, not just a job.
Is it particularly hard to not take public stances over things you don't understand? I would like to suggest he does understand it and he is just a dick about the issue. It seems condescending to assume people who are wrong about things "don't understand" topics. Unless you think I should believe all Republicans have no understanding of anything, as opposed to merely differing opinions from my own.
Steve Youngblood
Member
That's a fair viewpoint I suppose. However, there's still something I see as unsettling about this as a general advertisement for a position. If it's not meant to appeal to the general pool of skilled IT workers that aren't inundated with all things PA, then so be it. However, I still find the whole thing disconcerting if only because of the last sentence mainly. Mind you, you correctly argue that we can't know precisely what they mean in regards to salary. But speaking from a strictly intuitive viewpoint, I think the last sentence is entirely unnecessary to the advertisement if they're not simply looking to lowball a skilled individual that wants to work for Penny Arcade no matter the tradeoffs. And given that -- though it's not my place to speak on behalf of employees that may very well be thrilled with their compensation -- it's hard to shake the feeling that it's exploitative.
The reason I give them the benefit of the doubt is because I've shopped around IT jobs for the past 5 years as I have worked my way up the ladder and each time the job was more demanding than the last one and as such I negotiated my salary accordingly. Neither I nor anyone I know or make would accept such a position without an agreeable and reasonable salary for the task at hand. Especially since it's not a position that you would seemingly learn on the fly and they could take a risk on someone under qualified. So I give them the benefit of the doubt that they know more or less how much they'd have to pay someone to be the only person to handle those roles at their place of business. It's a competitive field/job and having the name Penny Arcade doesn't make up for them underpaying the role. So unless someone brings up an example of PA being completely clueless about how they handle their employees I don't see much reason to entertain the idea that they are gonna offer "shit" pay for this role. Especially as someone who in about a year would qualify for such a role.
Seriously, this is just obnoxious, cringey, and insulting.
How are they fucking anyone over? This is how they all work, presumably, they want someone to know what the culture is before coming in. I prefer to keep work and life separate but I could see having been into this at some stage of my life.
Plus, compensation and office culture aside, this is a pretty big opportunity to have a ton of responsibility/ownership of a range of highly visible projects. If I was like 23 and thought I could cut it, the work would probably be great for experience and job satisfaction.
If you walk away from PA after a couple years of being the entire IT team, that's probably pretty easy to leverage.
I would most certainly suggest many republicans have absolutely 0 idea about many of the things they comment on or stances they hold. I'm always open to being wrong but I'm sticking to that one. As far as the gender issue goes, the problem with that in my opinion as that for the most part people "THINK" they know what it is. When in actuality there's much more to gender than your biological sex.
POWERSPHERE
Member
They're such tightass money scammers. Gross.
I suspect it's designed to weed out those people who just want a good IT job, versus those who want to work at Penny Arcade. I'm not sure why they posted it at LinkedIn, as they almost exclusively hire people from their existing community. All of their last major hires were hired from within the PA community.
As for the money thing, I have a difficult time believing they're just trying to lowball someone. These are the same guys that moved the PvP guys into their offices and then allowed them to utilize all of PA's services (store, shipping, marketing, etc.). Also the same guys who took the winning artist in their contest, moved her into the PA offices, helped her set up her site, and then passed work onto her directly.
Maybe my perspective is different because I think of myself as not being primarily money motivated. I could make more than I currently do, if I were willing to work in a more traditional IT environment, rather than one that allows me to rock a Mountain Man beard, wear shorts all year long, and take days off to play video games. The actual salary in my jobs tends to be only one of the reasons I work there, and often not the largest one.
If it didn't involve a move to Seattle, I'd probably apply.
EatinOlives
Member
I don't know what's funnier, the job description itself, or the few in this topic tripping over themselves to justify this shitty employer behavior.
"But they're honest!!" Really? This is the argument? We've lowered the bar of employment conditions so much that we're giving brownie points to the employers who "at least" are transparent about their shit positions?
But PA know what they're doing. I'd like to say they're idiots for posting a job description as hilariously bad as this, but we all know that somewhere a desperate fan is considering this his dream come true because "OMG I GET TO WORK AT PENNY ARCADE!!" That's exactly the kind of person they're looking for, and they'll have no problem finding one.
"But they're honest!!" Really? This is the argument? We've lowered the bar of employment conditions so much that we're giving brownie points to the employers who "at least" are transparent about their shit positions?
But PA know what they're doing. I'd like to say they're idiots for posting a job description as hilariously bad as this, but we all know that somewhere a desperate fan is considering this his dream come true because "OMG I GET TO WORK AT PENNY ARCADE!!" That's exactly the kind of person they're looking for, and they'll have no problem finding one.
David H Wong
Banned
Well this thread is already full of people acting like this is the greatest crime against humanity since the holocaust, so I'm not sure what you're trying to imagine here. Holy crap do people have an irrational hatred for PA around here. If the job is shitty, nobody will take it. If somebody does, that must mean they want it. Who's getting screwed?
Same as with the kickstarters. They ask people to voluntarily give money. People happily give, and continue to be happy with what they got in return. And this voluntary giving is called a "scam." Who was scammed? By who?
It just sounds like jealousy. These guys made a whole lot of money being good at the thing they love doing. We used to celebrate that sort of thing.
EatinOlives
Member
Sorry dude, this is just a shit job. You can pretend it's manufactured rage all you want, this kind of thing doesn't fly anywhere in the professional industry. If this were any small business the size of PA and half as popular it would be laughed out of any site it's posted on.
And like many, many people have said before, just because people are happy taking up these shit jobs doesn't mean they're not shit jobs. It just means they are happy taking up shit jobs.
And lol @ jealousy. Anyone with this kind of skill set and disposition would be working for a far more professional and prestigious company for a lot more pay or would be doing so because they're running their own startup. What does anyone have to be jealous of, exactly?
jakonovski
Member
Information asymmetry, are you familiar with this concept?
entremet
Member
A poster earlier said they have very low turnover. Usually horrible people running companies like don't.
We used to, but Obama made us all success hating Communists.
They can't even afford to take down ads from their site or hire an audio engineer for their podcast.
yeah not sure what everyone's problem is to be honest. penny arcade has their own culture, and that's expressed in the job posting. someone who is interested in that can apply. if that doesnt appeal to you there are endless jobs in seattle that probably pay more.
Yeah, that's the saddest part.
Not sure it's "sad". There are a lot of unemployed people out there who need work and this would sound just fine to them. A job is a job is a job. I'm sure many job postings would read like this if employers were more honest about their priorities. At least they're being upfront about it.
What's sad are people like you who defend blatant exploitation on the grounds of, "Oh they were desperate anyways." Sad and pathetic.
I've worked this same job but without the web dev chops about 3 different times. Different faces, different company, same "this is all you can get" mentality. This is insulting. They should offer a fair price for services instead of banking on young professionals being star struck by working with Penny Arcade.
If you have that skillset, you are not unemployed except by choice.
BobbyRobby
Member
Tons of jobs are awful. I'd rather work one where the people are up front and direct about the fact.
And some people like to be challenged, so this job might not even be awful to such people.
And some people like to be challenged, so this job might not even be awful to such people.
oconnomiyaki
Member
Interesting to see that this news even made my tech circles. The feelings are pretty unanimous: anyone qualified enough to do what Penny Arcade is looking for isn't going to be dumb enough to apply.
Seems like PA is offering startup money and a startup "culture" for what should be an established company. I can understand not wanting to abandon that culture, but at some point you need to put money into your payroll. You can't expect people to be attracted by reputation and stick around by loyalty alone, especially when it comes to high demand positions like web development. Otherwise, people start to resent you (see: this entire thread)
People here are still reacting pretty badly. There are a few defenders, but I don't think PA is getting off the hook for a job posting like that (in this thread, at least).
If you want to be challenged, join the Army. If you're a competent web developer, software developer, and sys admin, then get a job at a place that will actually respect your skills enough to pay you what they're worth.
This PA job doesn't sound like a challenge, it sounds straight up masochistic.
I mean, you'll be working with Ben Kuchera. Let that stew. Not worth any salary in the world.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't want to come across as someone who is all about getting paid, because I agree with you about this. There are more important things in a job description than what your salary is. However, it was the salary language coupled with the clear language about the demands of the job. I would gladly settle for less money if it was clear that the hours would be reasonable and/or the schedule highly flexible. However, it's made very clear that this is a position for people who live to work.
Now, I understand that the employees may love working there, so my concerns may be off base. But personally, if I'm going to put in that kind of work effort, I'm going to need some sort of plan in effect for when the long hours cause me to burn out. Maybe it's just because I'm not a Penny-Arcade superfan, but it's hard for me to imagine any office being that great to work at that long hours would actually be desirable.
So that's where I'm coming from. I understand that a good work environment can go a long way, but this is just a hard sell to me. Mind you, I don't live in Seattle, have no strong affinity for the company, and don't have all of those skills. So who am I to weigh in on this. But it just seems like they're asking a lot and offering relatively little aside from the glamour of being Penny-Arcade.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
And getting completely fucked over.
Are you seriously saying it's okay for them to be getting shit on if they are willfully ignorant about it?
The world does not stop existing just because love something.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I don't think Ben Kuchera actually works in the PA office, to the chagrin of many jokes in here.
Hi. The current nom du jour for us is "DevOps".
I mean, it's mostly sysadmin & software dev, but I had to write some Sinatra/Rails not too long ago. And coaching long-time .NET guys how to get around in a Mac/Linux dev environment might as we'll be considered glorified help desk work. I was supposed to be working on developing some automation tools today, but instead spent most of my day troubleshooting the integration environment for one of our dedicated product dev teams. Ended up being some errant networking/DNS/firewall issues.
That being said, I'm part of a five man team, with support from other teams in the company. I'd also bet that I get paid better than what they'd be willing to offer based on that description.
Edit: Just finished running though the thread. Hoo boy, the hate is STRONG here. Steve Youngblood/besada and Jim-jam bongs stood out as having the most reasonable reactions.