Yeah, Live was more worth it when there were ads, but no apps at all.
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Penny Arcade: the ugly, profitable details about Xbox Live dashboard ads
- Thread starter Sean
- Start date
Alright. Heading down to their local Cable payment center and kick over their brochure stand...
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Out of academic interest, and because nobody who claims this ever like to actually answer it, what is the problem with PSN compared to XBL outside of the oh-so-important party chat 'feature'?
I'd pay for that, no joke.
NullPointer
Member
It made sense to charge for Gold early on, before they added a ton more revenue streams. Now? Not so much.
No. As a ps3 owner as well, I just feel manipulated by MS with all that stuff, so I don't feel it's added value. TBH if they are confident in their platform then it wouldn't matter if DLC came out at the same time as other platforms. I'd rather my money stayed in my pocket so I can decide what games to buy with it, not MS
Massive patches, no cross-game chat, no party mode, no mandatory demos for downloadable PSN games and minis, no private voice chat, having to manually sync trophies, devs having to implement shit like cross-game invites, join session, and even being able to mute other players (so not all games have 1 or more of those things). It's fucking shite in comparison to Live unless you're just jumping online for a session with randoms and you're not wearing a headset.
Yeah, they should cut off revenue streams that earn them millions. THAT makes sense right?NullPointer said:
That's just the cost of one ad tile too.
The default "Home" section has nine ads - a big box in the center that scrolls between five different ads and then four smaller square tiles on the right. "Video" and "Music" sections have the same setup. "TV" section has two square ad tiles on the right, the "Apps" section has one in the bottom right, and there's at least one ad tile on every section of the games marketplace.
Someone can do the math if they want, but that's a shitload of money they're earning each day.
Honestly it's kind of a bullshit complaint. If you want to know what's new, it's not that hard to go to Games (the big panel there usually has the newest GoD or XBLA game), then Games Marketplace and whatever slot you're looking for. Games - New Releases shows all new games and ditto for Add-ons and Demos.
One thing I absolutely HATE the way add-ons is rendered near useless by the spam of multiple listings for one title. Rock Band 3 songs, for example, or this week it's SFvsT 'gem packs' (whatever the hell that is) and NCAA boosts. I thought they were adding a Rock Band/Guitar Hero section for that stuff ages ago.
Honestly there's already two or three threads comparing the two. Can we avoid that shit in this thread?
Speedymanic
Banned
Of course it is. My primary platform is providing my content that others platforms don't have, how is that not a good thing?
They are valuable in that your primary platform offers you content that isn't available anywhere else. And you're not directly paying for the privilege.
Think of it this way, you pay MS X, you can then be happy in the knowledge that the platform provider is and will continue to use your sub money (however much it may be) to secure rights to content that won't be available anywhere else for a month, possibly more.
Would R* have worked on those episodes if it wasn't for MS paying all that money up front? Money, that was directly pumped into the service by everyone who bought a gold sub.
The answer is no, MS enticed them to get to work on that content and we, as the consumer benefited enormously.
NullPointer
Member
Yes. Times change. The model behind Gold should change. And yes, they should allow paying members to opt out of some of their ads at the very minimum.
They can still sell their service, but the way they're handling it right now is cynical and exploitative. You can make a buck and truly satisfy your customer base at the same time.
People need to stop criticizing Microsoft for not making Live free or putting ads on the service, and start criticizing the people who continue to pay for it.
Microsoft literally has a duty to do this if people are willing to pay the money for it and it makes the company profit. The moment a MS exec decides "Aww we are already making so much money on these ads, let's make XBL gold free" is the moment that exec will be asked to pack his belongings into a box.
Actual people playing games on the service. Nearly every single XBL subscriber will at least list "all my friends are on it" as one of the reasons they continue subscribing.
Microsoft literally has a duty to do this if people are willing to pay the money for it and it makes the company profit. The moment a MS exec decides "Aww we are already making so much money on these ads, let's make XBL gold free" is the moment that exec will be asked to pack his belongings into a box.
Actual people playing games on the service. Nearly every single XBL subscriber will at least list "all my friends are on it" as one of the reasons they continue subscribing.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
You have a very different standard of 'sucks balls' to what I suspect most people have.
I was curious what an online experience that 'sucks balls' consisted of.
Apparently it's a lack of demos for Playstation minis.
EDIT:
Believe it or not, there are corporations out there that are not generally regarded as money grubbing cunts that would sell out their own mother for a marginal profit.
Microsoft isn't one of them, surprisingly. Their reputation is well known in most spheres that they do business.
NullPointer
Member
Platform exclusives and timed exclusives are entirely different things. So yes, MS paying for exclusive content is a benefit. MS paying for COD maps and SKyrim DLC to be exclusive provides no acvtual value to even a single customer, in any way. All it does is exclude the content from their competitors.
Anyway, at least MS is telegraphing their trajectory here. We can at least tell whats coming down the pipe.
Speedymanic
Banned
I can understand the motivation behind the feeling, but there's no reason to feel manipulated.
The thing is you are deciding what games they buy content for, they only buy content for games they know their fanbase will embrace. Fallout 3, New Vegas, Skyrim, GTA. These are games the vast majority of gamers love, you specifically may not, but then they can't cater to all tastes.
This is why I think basic online gaming will be free next gen, ads are racking the money in so it seems foolhardy and incredibly arrogant to keep asking people to pay for just online gaming, especially when it's going to be a major selling point of your competition.
How do you know how satisfied their customers are?
Live has always had ads. Live now has more features and apps than it ever has, yet it's somehow worse than it used to be? No. It's the same old faces on here saying the same old shit is what it is.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Again, this is practiced by both MS and Sony. So neither company is confident in their platform.
Just curious, what publically traded corporation isn't a money grubbing cunt?
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Yes.
Thread is silly. Of course they make money on ads. Don't like live? Dont pay for it.
Speedymanic
Banned
That's where the value comes in. If you're only a 360 gamer, you'll feel your service is more valuable as a result of receiving content a month before everyone else. Remember, a month in gaming terms is a long time, sites will have stopped reporting in the content, they will have already reviewed it, all the fanfare surrounding the content will be over. That's where the value comes into play, you're showing both your userbase and potential consumers that your platform is the only one that has this content.
Even if it's only for a month, they won't care. They'll see that one platform has it and others don't, that adds value for potential consumers and adds value for everyday users through just having it before everyone else.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
GAF won't, but you OS on your PC will =D
NullPointer
Member
That's one way to look at it. What I see is content delayed a month for everyone else. And no, I don't see any positive value in that.
I can only speak for myself, although in these kinds of threads its rare to find someone who finds positive value in Gold as opposed to being fully willing to pay the price. There is a difference. But yeah, its not my intent to derail this thread, but when the article is specifically about dashboard ads and their divergence from gaming (and harm to XBLA and indie games), the actual value of the service to gamers is bound to come up.
Don't bother man, MS is the only company that does evil things. If Sony does it, its for the good of every gamer everywhere!
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
As a consumer, would you rather money was spent on things to benefit you, or to temporarily deprive someone else? I am genuinely surprised that you think the second is better.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Mostly about feminine products
Who doesn't want to know what color their tampon is
New U by Kotex
Comes in:
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Super
Super Plus
Speedymanic
Banned
And that's fair. I don't deny that it can be annoying when one platform stops you from accessing a game or content (RCR
) but it's a practice we need to become accustomed to as it's only going to increase in the next gen. Actual exclusives are going to be less of a deciding factor, the new battleground will be who can provide the most exclusive content for any given third party game.
I'm not suprised that they are profitable one bit. I'm sure bummed by the fact that you still see them if you have a gold sub. I guess the article somehow confirmed what we thought as the main reason for the new dashboard redesign : even more ads.
It's a bit weird that this article is coming from penny arcade. The way it's written I got the feeling they wanted to take a jab at MS for making money out of ads even if people pay for their service and that MS is already rich from their XBL and Xbox success. Yet, PA are also rich and started a kickstarter to remove ads from their website? Awkward.
It's a bit weird that this article is coming from penny arcade. The way it's written I got the feeling they wanted to take a jab at MS for making money out of ads even if people pay for their service and that MS is already rich from their XBL and Xbox success. Yet, PA are also rich and started a kickstarter to remove ads from their website? Awkward.
I do believe it, but the majority of those types of corporations never go public. Look at a company like Patagonia for example. Microsoft is as public as public can be and therefore has a duty to its stockholders to make as much money as humanly possible. If Sony didn't already have such a low userbase for its service relative to MS, it would have charged for online LONG ago. The only reason they can't is because free online is the only way they can compete with XBL at the moment.
Many, many human beings are selfish morons. Benefit to a person and temporarily depriving someone else of something is not necessarily mutually exclusive. Depriving someone of something else IS oftentimes a benefit to someone.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Only Nintendo is the good guy this gen in this regard. It is a shitty practice that I see continuing next gen from both MS and Sony.
toythatkills
Member
You know what's even worse than his example? Sony releasing Journey to PlayStation+ members before the peasants were allowed to play it. That's a company withholding content from its own customers.
Even if you think Microsoft are shit (and they are about plenty of stuff), it's not like the competition is any better.
Yeah, two corporate business here indeed, but the issue is that MSoft is setting a precedent for next gen by making it RAIN all while pimping ads, collecting subscriptions, and putting basic applications and console features (online play) behind a pay wall.
Pretty much ensures we'll be seeing more of this from BOTH sides, but we cant say the example was set by both. [edit lol]
MiniBossBattle
Member
Why should they change it if they are making money and no one (influential) is complaining about it? Its a steady revenue stream with the addition of having people pay a subscription for online and party chat.
phosphor112
Banned
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
All publicly traded corporations exist to make money, but not all corporations do so to the lengths that MS do, and have an absolute rock bottom public perception as a result. The Xbox brand is one of the few things that isn't held in general contempt by the majority of its users.
EDIT:
I really don't see a difference between that and MS withholding demos for Silver users.
I do see a difference between that and paying third parties substantial amounts of money (enough to necessitate increasing Live fees) to withhold content for a 6 month period (which works out great for devs, because they get an extra 6 months to polish and MS are paying for it) but I don't see why a Live subscriber would not want that money spent on things of tangible benefit to them instead
The money spent so far on temporary exclusive COD map packs could have financed an Ensemble game, for example.
How is this worse? If you own a PS3 you can buy Playstation Plus. If I want to play Dawnguard I have to repurchase Skyrim on another platform. Also Journey was exclusive for 1/3 of the time Microsoft's deals are.
NullPointer
Member
I wonder where Sony got that idea.
....right.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
You didn't answer the question.
No game is delayed for gold members over silver. Each game can be purchased on launch day regardless if you pay or not.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Two wrongs don't make a right, baby
Plus was advertised as a way to get early access to stuff, though, so not having that would've cheated the subscribers. The best solution of course is not to have subscriptions exist at all, but then how would they make it rain Xbox style?
Speedymanic
Banned
I'd want money spent making my primary platform more appealing by offering content that isn't available anywhere else, if that comes at the cost of others who don't have the same platform, so be it.
I'd feel bad for them, but then they have the option to go out and buy the console which offers them that content, if they choose not to, they should accept that not buying it comes at a cost.
Shao Kahn Going Shopping
Banned
Big Book of Business, this isn't some revelation by Microsoft. This is common business sense. Hell, even dumb it down to a retail space.
A store can only sell everything that's on the floor. This is why extremely spacious stores without shelves EVERYWHERE don't usually do too well, except in some unique situations. The more product that's out there, the more you sell. The more spots for advertising, the more places people can see something out of the corner of their eye, go "oh!" and check it out.
This is not a new concept. Sony isn't doing you all a favor with how theirs is structures - it's just managed POORLY.
EDIT: Apparently I got the wrong quote. WEH.
MS charges for P2P connections that cost them nothing, they charge for apps that are free everywhere but on xbox. i dunno a delayed game doesn't really seem that bad in comparison.
demanding better service for your money is a good thing. It's not like MS is looking out for me.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The ads aren't Obstructive or annoying at all, they are just there and don't really get in the way. If they start making you watch 20 second clips before playing your game or changing categories in the store then I'll be outraged but as it stands it's a non issue.
RomanticHeroX
Member
I can't name a single brand or product I've seen advertised on my 360. I just had it on 20 minutes ago too, still nothing.
NullPointer
Member
True that. I was referring to what Gold does with demos, but you're right and thanks for clarifying. PSN+ and PSN+ timed exclusivity is an extension of that. And yes, MS certainly didn't come up with the concept out of the void, but their history with Gold made it a more appetizing scenario for others to emulate and extend.
Karak
Member
As long as people acknowledge both wrongs.
Which they patently will not.
Back on topic. I think I miss a good deal of the ads. I only see like 1 space on each category. So there must be much more people are seeing than I am.