FranXico
Member
There may evidence towards Sony being infiltrated by ideologues, but user content moderation is not something such conclusions can be drawn from.
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Pepe The Frog Head Removed From Dreams By Sony
- Thread starter Virex
- Start date
DynamiteCop!
Banned
When it falls in line with the rest of the ideology and what is being moderated seemingly goes against it? I'd say it's a safe bet.
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FranXico
Member
The Pepe Frog association to right-wing extremists is a widespread idea (mislead or not), it is not exclusively characteristic of the extreme left.
Is it so hard to believe that a moderator chose to play it safe and remove something that might lead to controversy?
See. This is a good reply. MS should catch just as much flak as Sony then.
Your reply is on point and nullifies my argument. Far superior to just blaming it all on "Hitllery."
MightySquirrel
Banned
Try pepe the clown showing ok sign.
somerset
Member
Auto censorship of the 'lesser'. Braindead application of 'authority'.
Let me tell you a story...
Decades ago at school we had those large flat shiny 'desks' that are really tables. And one day someone introduced us to "penny football". Can't quite recall the details, save that two people played, at either end, and players tried to flick the penny into the opposite goal. It was *never* played for money. One day the teacher said it was *banned* cos it was a form of 'gambling'.
Decades later I'm reading 'Of Human Bondage' (hint, hint). The hero doing his schooling at the end of the 19th Century (for those of you bad at dates- that's around 1880 I think - 140 years ago) and the *same* thing happens in the hero's school- where the same game was also played for fun.
Censorship of this form is some dimwitted *beta* clown who feels like a 'big man' cos he gets to tell his 'lessers' (in his laughable dullwitted view) how to behave. The alt-left recruits such idiots to be their censors today. In every school are scum teachers like this. They also tend to be the abusers, of course.
Censorship does not exist to protect society from 'bad' things- tho too may of you think it could if done well. Censorship has always been used as a *caste* mechanism (you know like the sickening caste system in India). The *lesser* (lower caste) you are the more you are censored- those at the highest caste have zero censorship.
Since the fabians you know as alt-left fundamentally believe in "social darwinism", they fundamemtally believe in the caste system (tho not based on 'race' or 'class'), and hence love social censorship. The alt-left say "know your place, and for the vast majority of you that's at the very bootom under the strictest regimes of censorship".
Let me tell you a story...
Decades ago at school we had those large flat shiny 'desks' that are really tables. And one day someone introduced us to "penny football". Can't quite recall the details, save that two people played, at either end, and players tried to flick the penny into the opposite goal. It was *never* played for money. One day the teacher said it was *banned* cos it was a form of 'gambling'.
Decades later I'm reading 'Of Human Bondage' (hint, hint). The hero doing his schooling at the end of the 19th Century (for those of you bad at dates- that's around 1880 I think - 140 years ago) and the *same* thing happens in the hero's school- where the same game was also played for fun.
Censorship of this form is some dimwitted *beta* clown who feels like a 'big man' cos he gets to tell his 'lessers' (in his laughable dullwitted view) how to behave. The alt-left recruits such idiots to be their censors today. In every school are scum teachers like this. They also tend to be the abusers, of course.
Censorship does not exist to protect society from 'bad' things- tho too may of you think it could if done well. Censorship has always been used as a *caste* mechanism (you know like the sickening caste system in India). The *lesser* (lower caste) you are the more you are censored- those at the highest caste have zero censorship.
Since the fabians you know as alt-left fundamentally believe in "social darwinism", they fundamemtally believe in the caste system (tho not based on 'race' or 'class'), and hence love social censorship. The alt-left say "know your place, and for the vast majority of you that's at the very bootom under the strictest regimes of censorship".
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I didn’t blame it all on her. She shined the spotlight on it in her rally where the media followed.
Quote me next time.
BlitzerRadic
Member
TheDuskwalker
Member
Except I wasn't talking about your post history as an insult, I was clarifying I misread your "kiddie console" comment based on your history of pro Sony posts as I accidentally read it as you were using kiddie console as a generic fanboy defense like people did for Nintendo, like when Nintendo wouldn't localize Fatal Frame 4 (I saw kiddie console and my brain immediately went to "not this shit again" without grasping the proper context until I later re-read it), which is actually what you were talking about, not to mention if I was being "antagonistic" I wouldn't have removed my original post and said my bad (I WAS APOLOGIZING!). Also my second sentence was referring to fanboys in general saying stuff like "kiddie console" to downplay criticism, not you, since you also were pointing out the stupidity of calling Nintendo kiddie, ironically I said that since I actually thought I was agreeing with you.
However the fact you went into a 3 paragraph rant (yeah, I''m the one that was antagonistic) over something so minor, maybe I should call you a Sony defense force fanboy now.
But seriously, if you want an argument, here you go!
"This is a clear marker that you don't have an argument to make..." And your argument is just to sit back and accept everything these companies do because "it's there platform", yup it is and it's also the customers right to tell them they don't like it, especially if they have already bought the product. Since you're talking Sony's recent censorship stuff with anime games and shit, well guess what? Nintendo were the same not long ago, they weren't localizing games like Fatal Frame 4 and Xenoblade because it didn't fit NOA's idea for there platform, and were censoring games, but thanks to people NOT LIKE YOU we eventually got Xenoblade, and it has became a successful series, people finally stood up to Nintendo after Tokyo Mirage Sessions became Tokyo Censored Sessions and guess what? For the most part Nintendo finally stopped doing it, and both Nintendo and the customers are now better for it.
Also I never said Sony wasn't for me, in fact I think all 3 are shitty, I only buy consoles for the games, hence why I got a PS4, Switch, and 3DS but no X1, I never buy consoles because of the name on the box. Also my problem isn't the current censorship, Sony's always been a big piece of shit since the PS1 creating dumb policies and bullying companies, which is my problem. The problem isn't just censorship, it's "arrogant Sony" in general. I mean this censorship stuff came right after no crossplay.
This video didn't even cover all there shit and policies, like the whole Mega Man 8 fiasco where Sony initially refused to let it be released in North America for no reason other than being 2D, the English dub required for a physical release rule Sony of America had for awhile, forcing developers to add content to ports.
https://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/...e-crossovers-sakura-wars-and-ps3-development/
My problem is Sony telling developers and the customer what is and what isn't acceptable, be it 2D games, dubbing, visual novels, there own politics, crossplay, and whatever. But hey, they only helped kill the developers of Growlancer during the PS2 days with there policies since they cost them so much money by the time they could even get the game out. I'm glad there platforms integrity is more important than people actually having a job.
"I could care less about politics and drama..."
Then maybe you should be the one to "leave the thread".
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ipukespiders
Member
Just start co-opting Sony's own logos.
Make that an alt-right symbol.
Make that an alt-right symbol.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
It is not only memes that can cause an association. A few alt right groups using merchandise of spiderman or kratos, say official t-shirts, etc could cause the left to label such as associated to racists.
AFAIK you can't prohibit someone from using bought official merchandise.
Also you saw the spiderman game where him helping police was seen by some as troublesome and political. Even the very plot of the games, what one day is apolitical the next day becomes political
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's what a platform holder is supposed to do though. As curators of their "walled garden" service its their job!
Its inevitable that sometimes their policy choices will upset certain contingents, no matter how "hands off" the approach is. e.g. the ongoing Steam shit-show. Sometimes there is no way you can please everyone, this being a classic example.
If Pepe stays, some people will be angry. if it goes, some people will get angry. Its pretty obvious which route is going to get less media blowback though, and that's important when you have a brand and a product to sell.
GAMETA
Banned
Just start co-opting Sony's own logos.
Make that an alt-right symbol.
The square represents power and strong structures, qualities only men possess. The triangle is clearly a phallic symbol, a strong structure, just like men genitals.
The upper symbols are both clearly masculine.
The circle represents a hole, which is the vagina... note that the triangle (the pennis) is right above it, dominating and oppressing. The X then represents a female anus, right next to the circle (vagina), as it is in real life. The square, symbol of menhood, is right above it, clearly stating the dominance message.
From this we can conclude that these symbols clearly convey a message of male superiority, oppression and dominance over the female. Not only the male symbols are above and represent power, they are arranged in a way that suggest a sexual context, where women are only worth their anus and vagina, while men are represented by power and structure.
Oppressive, sexist and utterly unacceptable.
BlitzerRadic
Member
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Oooooh look at all the Pepe experts coming out of the woodwork.
It's always the same song and dance: no, you're wrong. You don't understand that the symbol has been subverted and now means THIS, and because it means THIS, the people who use the symbol also support THIS.
Braindead logic.
Pepe is a format. If you asked your pre-teen niece or nephew what a 'meme' was, perhaps they could tell you because apparently you missed out on that aspect of internet culture.
I don't support Sony removing it because it's an internet joke, and I laugh at the idiots who are so detached from reality that they believe CNN and Vice's definition of Pepe the Frog. You are literally the ignorant churchmarms who thought D&D and videogames would plunge children into practicing satanism.
It's always the same song and dance: no, you're wrong. You don't understand that the symbol has been subverted and now means THIS, and because it means THIS, the people who use the symbol also support THIS.
Braindead logic.
Pepe is a format. If you asked your pre-teen niece or nephew what a 'meme' was, perhaps they could tell you because apparently you missed out on that aspect of internet culture.
I don't support Sony removing it because it's an internet joke, and I laugh at the idiots who are so detached from reality that they believe CNN and Vice's definition of Pepe the Frog. You are literally the ignorant churchmarms who thought D&D and videogames would plunge children into practicing satanism.
thelastword
Banned
Well, clearly you misunderstood what I was saying and it happens, but I usually make it a habit of reading what people say "properly" before responding......I responded to your post after reading, but now going back I realize you eventually removed the post...So, no harm, no foul.....Except I wasn't talking about your post history as an insult, I was clarifying I misread your "kiddie console" comment based on your history of pro Sony posts as I accidentally read it as you were using kiddie console as a generic fanboy defense like people did for Nintendo, like when Nintendo wouldn't localize Fatal Frame 4 (I saw kiddie console and my brain immediately went to "not this shit again" without grasping the proper context until I later re-read it), which is actually what you were talking about, not to mention if I was being "antagonistic" I wouldn't have removed my original post and said my bad (I WAS APOLOGIZING!). Also my second sentence was referring to fanboys in general saying stuff like "kiddie console" to downplay criticism, not you, since you also were pointing out the stupidity of calling Nintendo kiddie, ironically I said that since I actually thought I was agreeing with you.
However the fact you went into a 3 paragraph rant (yeah, I''m the one that was antagonistic) over something so minor, maybe I should call you a Sony defense force fanboy now.
But seriously, if you want an argument, here you go!
"This is a clear marker that you don't have an argument to make..." And your argument is just to sit back and accept everything these companies do because "it's there platform", yup it is and it's also the customers right to tell them they don't like it, especially if they have already bought the product. Since you're talking Sony's recent censorship stuff with anime games and shit, well guess what? Nintendo were the same not long ago, they weren't localizing games like Fatal Frame 4 and Xenoblade because it didn't fit NOA's idea for there platform, and were censoring games, but thanks to people NOT LIKE YOU we eventually got Xenoblade, and it has became a successful series, people finally stood up to Nintendo after Tokyo Mirage Sessions became Tokyo Censored Sessions and guess what? For the most part Nintendo finally stopped doing it, and both Nintendo and the customers are now better for it.
Also I never said Sony wasn't for me, in fact I think all 3 are shitty, I only buy consoles for the games, hence why I got a PS4, Switch, and 3DS but no X1, I never buy consoles because of the name on the box. Also my problem isn't the current censorship, Sony's always been a big piece of shit since the PS1 creating dumb policies and bullying companies, which is my problem. The problem isn't just censorship, it's "arrogant Sony" in general. I mean this censorship stuff came right after no crossplay.
This video didn't even cover all there shit and policies, like the whole Mega Man 8 fiasco where Sony initially refused to let it be released in North America for no reason other than being 2D, the English dub required for a physical release rule Sony of America had for awhile, forcing developers to add content to ports.
https://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/...e-crossovers-sakura-wars-and-ps3-development/
My problem is Sony telling developers and the customer what is and what isn't acceptable, be it 2D games, dubbing, visual novels, there own politics, crossplay, and whatever. But hey, they only helped kill the developers of Growlancer during the PS2 days with there policies since they cost them so much money by the time they could even get the game out. I'm glad there platforms integrity is more important than people actually having a job.
"I could care less about politics and drama..."
Then maybe you should be the one to "leave the thread".
Yet, based on your response to the subject at hand.....I think what I alluded to about you tracing a line from way back when to now, still applies.....You clearly had some issues with the way Sony handled some things in the past and you think they have not changed......That may be so and it may very well be your perspective/experience, but the point still remains that every manufacturer will do something you may not like, change a policy that will affect persons.......Yet the truth of the matter is inescapable, it's their platform. If you want something done differently you go to the platform that serves your needs better.......Yet, they are within their rights to moderate and change policies on their platforms as they see best.....
Sometimes I think we like to cry for everything a bit too much.....We're talking about policies, but every company has them, every console Manufacturer, Steam, EpicStore, Origin, Gog etc...Speaking of Sony and it's 2D policy, dubbing games etc....I mean you're speaking about some Atlus games on PS2 etc, companies going out of business, workers losing jobs.......Sometimes you have to make the hard decisions, so far-removed from saving third parties, Sony had to shut down their own studios, I imagine that's even harder for them, but sometimes you've go to do what you've got to do.....They had to restructure, sell a few buildings do so many things to get back on track......Business is not about pleasing every whim and fancy of paying customers, if they did they would go bankrupt.....
I personally prefer fighting BS like; all these bugs and low frames/0 frames in Bethesda Games, microstransaction infestations in games....People selling games that are not even 50% ready at retail at $60, that I can get behind and many more causes, but once nothing illegal and straight anti-consumer is done.....I think I can survive...All I want is quality games on a platform.....
TheDuskwalker
Member
I keep seeing this media blowback argument, yet none of you can explain why Twitch gets no blowback for allowing Pepe emotes when they'll happily ban someone for saying "there is only 2 genders" because it's offensive. Seems to me no one actually cares, and just see him as a little meme frog that some assholes use for there politics, but hey Hilary told you something to bash Trump, politicians never lie!
But lets ignore this Pepe thing, or even there recent censorship crap, what about all the other stuff I covered they've pulled through the years? 2D games, visual novels, dubbing, crossplay, etc. tell me how all that's good when you have a brand and product to sell? Steam's problem is quality insurance, they let unplayable shovelware on there store. I mean if you're a platform holder, and you tell a developer and customers it's unacceptable for something on your platform to not even work, I think that's fair. However stuff like this I don't find fair at all.
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TheDuskwalker
Member
Yeah, this seemed so hard for Sony......
Q&A: Victor Ireland on the end of Working Designs
Head of localization house candidly discusses the the state of the industry and his company's downfall.
www.gamespot.com
"Sometimes you have to make the hard decisions, so far-removed from saving third parties"
They don't have to save them, but they could also not bully them to the point of further ruin. Just because every company has policies doesn't excuse bad ones, and because they eventually remove those bad policies doesn't excuse eventually making new bad ones to replace them, and I think customers and developers have the right to call them out on it.
"If you want something done differently you go to the platform that serves your needs better....... "
Read the full interview, and see the problem with this logic, from a developer point of view. Sometimes you just can't. From a gamer standpoint, well your defense was Don's defense for the X1's "always online" policy.....we know how that went. Plus telling people to go to a different platform after buying the platform, thus spending more money, is silly.
Growlanser Generations
Growlanser: Generations is a 2-disc compilation from Working designs which consists of two highly regarded strategy RPGs. "Growlanser II: The Sense of Justice" introduces players to a special world of melee and magic, where rings become weapons and war threatens to shatter the peace of three...
www.metacritic.com
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GenericUser
Member
I actually like pepe, find his impressions really funny and sometimes straight on point. But I do see that some more sensitive people could find the illustrations offensive. I'm ok with sony removing it, not a huge deal.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
And here i was thinking that I'd recreate PT demo using Pepe and Donald Trump as the "Lisa" ghosts of the demo with an epic ending of opening the final door and revealing a huge wall full of Pepe Mexicans tryng to jump across the wall.
Domisto
Member
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
You know full well as I do that Pepe became something more.
What you showed was the equivalent of rule 34.
Psykodad
Banned
This was something I have been wondering about pre-EA though.
To what extent are we "free" to create what we want?
Is it really that bad if someone creates a Pepe, even if it has political reasons behind it?
Is it bad to have (mildly) suggestive creations?
Shouldn't we, as Dreamers, be free to create and express ourselves in whatever way possible?
Don't get me wrong, there should be guidelines and moderation, but isn't something like removing Pepe going a bit far?
Domisto
Member
Just pointing out that images get subverted all the time. It's no reason to start eradicating anything related to it. You're just giving more power to those people.
But I'm really not that fussed by all this. It's kind of funny but mostly tragic that people are so worked up over a dumb frog. So I'll leave you all to this little 'war'.
BlitzerRadic
Member
Have you been on the internet before?
Another false equivalence. Do people like you feign ignorance just to have a talking point?
Klayzer
Member
Standard operating procedure for a lot of users on this site unfortunately.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The evidence of how ludicrously politicized gaming culture has gotten is overwhelming, for whatever reason its become a major front (arguably THE major front) in the present culture wars.
As to the rest of your stuff, honestly, citing articles from 2005 about the demise of a company who had already pissed on their chips by falling out with the primary partner (SEGA) is kinda weak.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
If this is true, then I can't see why it's banned. Are people really this upset that it's banned in Dreams though?
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
With the many world comics, just as there's a communist superman, it is not impossible for stories to emerge of a nazi superman or nazi avengers.
Also most of the pepe use by the alt right has nothing to do with white power or nazis that is only a small minority.
edit:
Superman was one of the superhumans appointed by Adolf Hitler to be his heroes. And Superman became a member of the Gerechtigkeitliga, enforcers of the Nazis' regime.
Superman (Earth-10)
The Superman of Earth-10 was a member of the Justice League Axis. Superman was one of the superhumans appointed by Adolf Hitler to be his heroes. And Superman became a member of the Gerechtigkeitliga, enforcers of the Nazis' regime. Superman found a substance called Kryptonite, and noticed that...dc.fandom.com
Most of the use by the alt right has pepe with zero hate symbols. Neither white power nor nazi symbology. Nazi and whitepower is only a tiny minority of pepe memes.
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SonGoku
Member
I can't speak for others but personally it annoys me how much power devs/pubs are giving to sjws by caving into their demands every time they make tantrum.
Full disclosure: I have no interest on Dreams.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
To be fair that's your interruption that they are only listening to the so-called "SJWs". There's no tantrum.
ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
Good thing I sold off all my investments into the PePe market
Holy shit threads like these get the craziest mother fuckers posting in them
Don't want to go to the host's party because you don't like their itinerary, then don't go
Holy shit threads like these get the craziest mother fuckers posting in them
Don't want to go to the host's party because you don't like their itinerary, then don't go
SonGoku
Member
Whats your interpretation then?
The only reason i can think why they would take it down is out of fear from sjw twitter backslash or soyboy "journalists" hunting for clicks.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Some of you guys put too much emphasis on your hatred for "soyboy" journalists. Sometimes Corporations do things because they themselves don't like certain things too. More than likely it's Media Molecule that doesn't like Pepe the Frog at this point.
SonGoku
Member
Thats a fair point to make, Bioware for example went full sjw so that could very well be the case here.
But i could also make a point that Pepe meme is harmless and cherished by the internet (see twitch)
The only reason why Pepe got a bad name in the first place is because Hillary said so
Also a meme supporting Trump/= Hatred
At this point the only people who dislike pepe are those bitter Trump won and hillary lost.
Its pretty shitty for a dev who claims to make a game based on user creation to ban content because it doesnt align with their political party.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is always going to be wrong because if you leave him in, it allows for politics to be introduced into the creative space of Dreams. I guess the question is, should MM even care than crappy people will bad intentions will create politically negative stuff in Dreams.
That's a philosophical question that I have no clue how to answer.
Geki-D
Banned
Whilst I get she exaggerated massively, it's pretty disingenuous to say this. She didn't just wake up one morning, search "memes" on the internet, close her eyes, randomly point at one and say "I will say this one is bad". It doesn't exist in a vacuum, there are events that led her to say that stuff, the main one being Pepe was being politicised by the right first.
If it supports Trump it's political. If it's political there's a valid reason for banning it.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Based. Sad frog posting is low tier. I honestly don't see the problem or why people are crying over this. Don't @me.
Of fuck wrong website!
Of fuck wrong website!
SonGoku
Member
Thats a fair point to make however is pretty shit that people still consider pepe politicized. Most have moved on from that and use it on different contexts that have nothing to do with politics. I wish they evaluated its use on a case by case basis.
How is it disingenuous? She said that to discredit a rather successful online campaign not out of her values. Let's be honest here the left attempt at online memeing and jokes is always cringe and forced that's why it never gains any traction.
Trump is not even 10% of pepe. the meme can and has been used for anything and everything, its just flexible.
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S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Yes I also think whoever decided to do this browses 4chan and just got tired of people spamming sad frog and wanted quality content. Totally not related to Trump. Yes.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And do people REALLY want to be associated with trolls that spam Pepe the frog?
Geki-D
Banned
What are you actually arguing? You admit that Pepe is something in support of Trump, you say right here it was used in a campaign against her. How can you then go on to say:
When you yourself give examples as to why Pepe is politicised? It doesn't matter if people have moved on or if Pepe is also used in another context sometimes. It's too late, Pepe has been politicised (by your own admission) and will always be viewed in that light, especially by companies who need to protect their image.
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GreenAlien
Member
Do they ban other political messaging as well? Like Nintendo did with SSB stages?
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
how about god emperor from warhammer?