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Phil Harrison tries (again) to clarify game ownership & pre-owned games

fritolay said:
I can understand being tied to your xbox live profile. It hands off a license to your system to play the game just in case you want to play offline, or the internet goes out, you can still play your purchased game on the last system that checks online. That makes sense.

I can understand allowing you to play the game with your xbox live profile on another system. That allows you to take a game and play at your friends house or a relatives for the weekend. That makes sense.

What doesn't make sense, is if you have two consoles in the same house, and you want to play the game say upstairs in the family room and then another family member wants to play in your office or in the basement, maybe in the same day. Now you have more than one xbox live profile (or maybe they have local xbox profile?) on more than one system wanting to play the game. Unless the key to the disc can only be checked out once, and it has to be online to check this out, I don't think they could implement this without developers getting upset because of abuse.

What also doesn't make sense is for your friends or relatives house that is off the grid. If the xbox is never on the internet, hows does it or the game you purchased know it's been installed? If you truly bought 1 copy, they would have to let you play the game especially if it is not an online game obviously. However if they do this, and then you take the game to your own xbox that is online, how would xbox live, the publisher/developer, or your system know you already installed the game on another friends offline system?

Personally I think being able to install the game and not use a disc anymore is great. I just don't know how they will do it to make everyone happy.
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heh, theoretically they could check other Xboxes connected to the same network (or have the Xboxes talk to each other through WiFi, there was an interesting note on the spec list about "WiFi direct") to validate things that way.

I doubt they'll go through with all that though.
 
PG2G said:
I'd imagine 25+ gig downloads required would have caused an even greater uproar than some of the other things people are upset about.
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That is the shock that some people got with Battlefield 3 Premium, many many Gigs and updates. A friend asked, are their always updates now with console games? I said well BF3 it is all the extra content, and you have a new system so it must update to catch up. Then it is better.
 
Well, if I'm understanding this completely right, the cloud really is integral to the function of this machine, and I might understand a little why they need it to reconnect to the Internet once in awhile.

Sounds more and more like a MSFT Xbox version of Steam coming, but in addition are "developing" a method to trade in your games, somehow (that was the unannounced portion).

No matter where you are (and possibly in the future XBOX One OR PC), if you have a game validated to your account, you can access it anywhere it seems.

Implementation is 100% key to this. If they do it right, as confusing as it sounds now, it may actually be a pretty good system. If they mess it up, well, everyone has pitchforks already.
 
fritolay said:
What if the xbox was download only, no discs at all? Then what would you say is fair?
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Then i would buy more games on my PC, i never buy used games but i do borrow them from friends and sell them when i'm done with them. It's a big reason why i justify paying full price for new games on consoles but wait for sales on Steam. I have over 36 games on steam, and i think i only paid full price for Skyrim and that was a gift from my wife. I usually buy console games on launch day cause i know i can get at least 25% of it back if i ever decide to sell it.
 
It's my purchased game. Why the Hell does my friend need to log in to my Profile just to play it? I don't want him to do that and messing up with my save files. Why can't I lend it to him if I choose to do so? This is BS!
 
I can't tell if y'all are trolling or are what

This is really no different than Steam DRM. Does no one here use Steam at all or something and have been living under a rock for the past 13 years?
 
One of their many crimes here is taking something simple, like sharing a game, and inserting themselves into the middle of it - deliberately making it complicated.

It's inhumane.
 
"Some bits of the system will work without power," he said. "I think the key point to make is that Xbox One requires an electrical outlet, but it does not need to be connected all the time. We think that most of the biggest games on Xbox One and most of the games and experiences and services you want to use will be electrical."
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Makes sense.

Bleedorang3 said:
How is this difficult for people to understand?
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Talk to Phil - he's clearly struggling with it.
 
Bleedorang3 said:
How is this difficult for people to understand?
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We are having difficulty understanding how this many working professionals could botch a console this badly. Then again, this is the same company that brought us Zune, Surface, and Windows 8. Misreading the wishes of their customers is part of their DNA it seems.
 
INDIGO_CYCLOPS said:
That reminds me of the 'proposed' UMD trade-in system that turned out to be too daunting for Sony to implement. This seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
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It's almost as if that UMD Trade-in system was made up for the United States as a means to avoid backlash and criticism. It was a fictional system that was created to ease doubt in media and to focus on positive talking points of the system.
 
Replicant said:
It's my purchased game. Why the Hell does my friend need to log in to my Profile just to play it? I don't want him to do that and messing up with my save files. Why can't I lend it to him if I choose to do so? This is BS!
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Because your friend didn't purchase the game lol wtf am I reading. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial.
 
I honestly don't think they've made their minds up.

If so they should probably have just said 'yes it plays used games' to shut everyone up until they decide what route they want. Technically they wouldn't be lying.

All this messy info is just ... a mess.

I don't know what I see happening now.
 
"Our goal is to make it really customer-centric, really simple and really understandable and we will announce those details in due course."
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You're doing a great job so far!

DnY4K0X.png
 
Replicant said:
It's my purchased game. Why the Hell does my friend need to log in to my Profile just to play it? I don't want him to do that and messing up with my save files. Why can't I lend it to him if I choose to do so? This is BS!
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Cause lending is impossible when discs become meaningless.
 
RedNumberFive said:
We are having difficulty understanding how this many working professionals could botch a console this badly. Then again, this is the same company that brought us Zune, Surface, and Windows 8. Misreading the wishes of their customers is part of their DNA it seems.
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Botch? Hasn't even been released yet. What about it have they botched? Have Sony botched their unreleased console also?
 
Bleedorang3 said:
Because your friend didn't purchase the game lol wtf am I reading. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial.
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On the contrary, WTF am I reading?! Oh right, utter BS! It's a game I purchased and I should have the right to lend it to anyone I see fit. Stop trying to reduce consumer's right to do anything they want with their purchased goods.
 
Bleedorang3 said:
Because your friend didn't purchase the game lol wtf am I reading. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial.
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Odd how these rules don't apply to movies, books, music...you know, just about everything else. Keep rationalizing this anti-consumer bullshit please.

lol wtf am I reading
 
Bleedorang3 said:
Botch? Hasn't even been released yet. What about it have they botched? Have Sony botched their unreleased console also?
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So I'm mistaken in reading into the overwhelmingly negative reaction to what should be an exciting console reveal? From where I'm standing, MS missed the target by a fucking mile.
 
Bleedorang3 said:
Because your friend didn't purchase the game lol wtf am I reading. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial.
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This is a physical copy of the game. With the Xbox 360, PS3, WiiU, OG Xbox, PS2, GC, PS1, N64, SNES, NES, Genesis, Dreamcast, etc you could lend a game to a friend to play or to keep. You could also sell games too. Required installation and online verification disrupts the way people use their purchased goods and reduces the utility of the product.

The precedent of physical product ownership in the console business has been pretty much set in stone for the past four decades or so.

This change is a disappointment to many.
 
Replicant said:
On the contrary, WTF am I reading? Oh right, utter BS! It's a game I purchased and I should have the right to lend it to anyone I see fit. Stop trying to reduce consumer's right to do anything they want with their purchased goods.
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What you're advocating is called Piracy. You're trying to argue that two people should be able to simultaneously play a game when only one has paid for it. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial. If they want to play the whole thing sell it to them on the Marketplace for 0$ have them sign into your account.

zZzzZzz
 
shandy706 said:
So you're not a PC gamer I would guess?
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No I'm not. But I do have a couple of PC games (ie. Mass Effect 2). Are you telling me that if I play that game on my PC, I can't lend that game to my friend? I find it hard to believe.

Bleedorang3 said:
What you're advocating is called Piracy. You're trying to argue that two people should be able to simultaneously play a game when only one has paid for it. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial. If they want to play the whole thing sell it to them on the Marketplace for 0$ have them sign into your account.

zZzzZzz
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Ha ha, WTF? You sound like a company apologist. Who said anything about two people should be able to play simultaneously? Or do you have a failure in reading comprehension too? I'm talking about lending the game to a friend once I finished it. He may not have interest in JRPG and I'm trying to convince him to play this game because I really like it. I don't want him to sign my account and messing up with my save files when he can use his own save files on his account.
 
ultron87 said:
That was like three messaging flip flops before this one.
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From MSFT or reporters possibly not articulating MSFT un-articulate policy? Hehe.

Seriously, I think today a lot of people got a lot of overblown fears going.

MSFT is basically converting the XBOX into a Steam Cloud for games. As a Steam user, I would think most people would be ecstatic about that, especially if MSFT adds a function to sell your games somehow (which you can't do on Steam, but I don't complain).
 
shandy706 said:
So you're not a PC gamer I would guess?
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PC gamer doesn't always mean Steam-only gamer. GoG does it right, as do many, many other outlets. And heck, Steam at least has the games for cheap -- price Xbox,,!,, games at $5 and I'll be a bit more willing to deal with this.
 
JABEE said:
This is a physical copy of the game. With the Xbox 360, PS3, WiiU, OG Xbox, PS2, GC, PS1, N64, SNES, NES, Genesis, Dreamcast, etc you could lend a game to a friend to play or to keep. You could also sell games too. Required installation and online verification disrupts the way people use their purchased goods and reduces the utility of the product.

The precedent of physical product ownership in the console business has been pretty much set in stone for the past four decades or so.

This change is a disappointment to many.
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I guess if you can't wrap your head around licenses to digital goods then its tough. A digital good is not the same as a shoe or a car because it can be replicated and executed endlessly. The only people that are making a stink out of this are either ignorant or trolling.
 
Bleedorang3 said:
What you're advocating is called Piracy. You're trying to argue that two people should be able to simultaneously play a game when only one has paid for it. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial. If they want to play the whole thing sell it to them on the Marketplace for 0$ have them sign into your account.

zZzzZzz
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Is this a real post?
 
Doesnt the PS4 also have mandatory game installs? I wonder if Sony will adopt this exact same Steam-esq system or if they'll improve it. They currently allow users to share games with a limited number of friends. Maybe they'll do the same with borrowed PS4 games. Hope they at least allow us to play gimped versions of the games. Take away online multi-player functionality, trophies, access to DLC or turn the installed game into an extensive trial or even a paid rental. Something better than having to pay full price to access the bits.
 
Bleedorang3 said:
What you're advocating is called Piracy. You're trying to argue that two people should be able to simultaneously play a game when only one has paid for it. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial. If they want to play the whole thing sell it to them on the Marketplace for 0$ have them sign into your account.

zZzzZzz
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No matter how many fanboys get banned, there are always more waiting for their account to official get registered.

And the wave will only get worse at e3.
 
If i loan/sell my game to a friend only him is capable of playing it and no other, So it's not piracy . 1 disc, 1license, 1gamers at time, 1 slot occupied in the server at time. There are no more costs for the soft house.
 
Bleedorang3 said:
What you're advocating is called Piracy. You're trying to argue that two people should be able to simultaneously play a game when only one has paid for it. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial. If they want to play the whole thing sell it to them on the Marketplace for 0$ have them sign into your account.

zZzzZzz
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I would say don't put out a console that requires installation of disc-based games to run without the disc.

Do what has been the precedent for the past 35 years and allow customers to sell and lend their property to others.

If you can't do that, at least come up with a tolerable solution like activating and deactivating your games before lending and trading if having a disc-free console is your vision of the future.

I think their implementation as stated by Phil Harrison is clumsy and encroaches on precedents of content ownership on consoles. I disagree whole-heartedly with their approach.
 
Replicant said:
Ha ha, WTF? You sound like a company apologist. Who said anything about two people should be able to play simultaneously? Or do you have a failure in reading comprehension too? I'm talking about lending the game to a friend once I finished it. He may not have interest in JRPG and I'm trying to convince him to play this game because I really like it. I don't want him to sign my account and messing up with my save files when he can use his own save files.
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And you sound like you're either ignorant or being intentionally trollish. Digital goods are not the same as physical goods. Sell it to him on the marketplace for 0$ to transfer your license.

PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED.
 
We know that a game can be played by all the accounts on the console it's registered on, and can be installed and played on a console other than the one it was registered on as long as an account from the first console is logged in, but do we know which account or accounts from the original can be "lent" to another console? Is there a master account with that ability, or can any of the accounts on the first console be used? What if another account is made on the first console after the game is registered; can it then be used to play the game on another console as well?
 
Everybody is super cynical about this, I understand that they needed a mechanism to allow users to 100% install games and run then disc free, So that users have instant access to their entire games library without switching discs.

That leaves a predicament, how do you create system that allows this quiet convienient feature to exist without being abused and having a single copy end up being distributed between 10 people?

Online authentication, hence why you need the Internet to install games.
 
Bleedorang3 said:
I guess if you can't wrap your head around licenses to digital goods then its tough. A digital good is not the same as a shoe or a car because it can be replicated and executed endlessly. The only people that are making a stink out of this are either ignorant or trolling.
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I understand what a digital good is. I believe that everyone you are replying to does as well. People are disagreeing with Microsoft's implementation of their installation system, because at it's crux it kills the ability for people to legally do what they want with a physical media that they own.

This change in strategy, which you must admit, is very different from what they are doing now with Xbox 360 games, is very disconcerting.
 
Bleedorang3 said:
What you're advocating is called Piracy. You're trying to argue that two people should be able to simultaneously play a game when only one has paid for it. If your friend wants to try the game tell him to download the trial. If they want to play the whole thing sell it to them on the Marketplace for 0$ have them sign into your account.

zZzzZzz
Click to expand...

0bUu6o4.gif


Also you're seriously thinking they'll allow you to sell your games without taking a fee? that would negate the reason why they're doing this.
 
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