UltimaPooh
Member
It won't but I enjoy Mario games enough by myself. Pikmin's single player is enjoyable but the multiplayer is where it will shine.
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Pikmin 3 won't have online multiplayer/co-op, will have SP and local multiplayer only
- Thread starter MagicWithEarvin
- Start date
It won't but I enjoy Mario games enough by myself. Pikmin's single player is enjoyable but the multiplayer is where it will shine.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
That made me laugh.
TDLink
Member
Pikmin has always been a predominantly single player experience. The multiplayer in 2 was a bonus mode at best. If you were truly interested in the game that Pikmin is then online wouldn't have even been an expectation for it as there is hardly anything in the past games of the franchise that indicates that is the direction they would go with it.
I have played CnC on console as well as Halo Wars. Both had fairly buggy and laggy online modes so they really aren't the best examples. They also both had me utilizing less units at all times than Pikmin requires.
UltimaPooh
Member
I had both Pikmins. They were fun but what I really wanted was to wreck my friends shit online using Pikmin. I think if you were to take a poll on NeoGAF asking that question you would have a majority who thought that would be the next logical step, especially after Nintendo has already done online games and is supposedly supposed to be embracing it lately.
I didn't.
I think the amount of units are probably the same.
Once you deploy your units in an RTS, everything afterwards is pretty much taken care of by the game program itself and doesn't require much in the way of network traffic. The PCs involved know which units are going where and when, so it's pretty much a done deal from that point on. With Pikmin, every time you move your control stick, the network would be cluttered with character position data for every Pikmin that's following you. This is why I was never expecting an online Pikmin to begin with.
i didn't play the multiplayer much. it was kinda neat i guess, but pikmin 2's sp was the main attraction. i doubt i'd play p3's multiplayer either even if it was online.
still, nintendo should get used to this sort of thing, and not just limit it to mario kart, pokemon, and smash bros.
still, nintendo should get used to this sort of thing, and not just limit it to mario kart, pokemon, and smash bros.
TDLink
Member
Pikmin, even in the multiplayer in 2, has never really been about "wrecking shit" though. I honestly never put that much thought into that multiplayer mode from 2 to come to the conclusion that it would be the next logical step for the series. For me I always thought bigger maps with more things to explore, more varied caves/dungeons, new types of pikmin, better ways to utilize multiple leaders...the exact things we seem to be getting in Pikmin 3 (minus the caves as they haven't talked about that yet).
Honestly if you did do a poll here asking what Nintendo franchise you would like to see get a competent online mode I highly doubt Pikmin would be anywhere near the top as that just isn't the general expectation for this franchise.
Ding ding ding.
It's funny, there were a group of gaffers during the Speculation days questioning how Nintendo was going to be able to just "jump in" to serious online at the last second and be instantly good at it, despite never having focused on it before. I guess this is our answer.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
I've been wondering why they haven't shown much about their "Nintendo Network" - it's been two E3s already for Nintendo and Wii U. Even Sony and Microsoft were so open to their online platforms prior to releasing their respective consoles this generation. I don't get why Nintendo won't just come out with it since their next generation console is due out this Holiday. Is it not just a selling point? Are they not confident about Nintendo Network? I just hope it's a competent online service whenever they do decide to reveal it.
probably this
abstract alien
Member
Wouldn't it be awesome if you could use 2 GamePads in this game, and each have a full view of the map on your dedicated screen? No more truncated view on the TV
Potential for best local co-op experience on Wii U is definitely there.
This is the problem. So much potential, and so much wasted. What really sucks for the people that wanted it is that they can't just go and pick up another title to fill in like they could with a shooter, fighter, or racer. If you aren't playing Pikmin online, and you want to, you are pretty much screwed. Not much else out there like it, especially on console, and of high quality. Like I said, this isn't much of a problem for me as I'm not big for online multiplayer, but it should be VERY easy to see why it needs to be here and why it is missed.
This isn't just about Pikmin, it's about the whole online function of this console. They are treating it third class again. They try to wow us with the Miiverse. Woopie, I can draw a shroom for Mario and leave a message that needs moderation... Who asked for this? Meanwhile they still cannot be bothered to put their games online.
This just serves as an example of what's to come. Mario Party WiiU will be offline only too for sure. They probably also just can't do it with their ancient engines that they keep updating a lil bit each time. Since this is an update to their Pikmin gamecube engine... and Nintendoland probably uses the Wii Sports Resort engine... All no online.
This just serves as an example of what's to come. Mario Party WiiU will be offline only too for sure. They probably also just can't do it with their ancient engines that they keep updating a lil bit each time. Since this is an update to their Pikmin gamecube engine... and Nintendoland probably uses the Wii Sports Resort engine... All no online.
But the same thing was said about Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, etc. and look how those turned out, they have great multiplayers. I know they're different genres but my point is, it could have been an amazing online experience.
abstract alien
Member
Normally I would be inclined to agree(to an extent), but considering that this game is seemingly being held up in order to be a launch title...this can't be the reason.
well the game was going to be a wii game. it's probably not really so much being rushed for launch as much as it's being ignored to focus on mario and nintendo land. the pikmin 3 guys also did nsmb2 and nsmbu.
This reminds me that Nintendo "forgot" to lay out their online plans during E3. Were finally starting to hear some stuff (mostly dissapointing and vague stuff) but this announcement honestly turns me off. I would expect for a retail game at this moment in time that offers multiplayer to at least have some sort of online multi. I also dont want to be quick to judge since it might be a feature that was simply taken out to ensure that Pikmin 3 launches with the Wii U, but Nintendo's general attitude towards online makes me nervous for future titles.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Not really on board with GAFs patented rage and indignation here... When I think of games I want to play online, Pikmin is nowhere near top of the heap. The local multiplayer isn't even that attractive.
I think NSMBU could benefit from it, and Wii sports 3 if that comes, Mario Kart obviously, any fps games or competitively styled non party games (the whole point of some party games is the appeal of local multiplayer, social gaming)... But pikmin? I'm amazed anyone cares
I think NSMBU could benefit from it, and Wii sports 3 if that comes, Mario Kart obviously, any fps games or competitively styled non party games (the whole point of some party games is the appeal of local multiplayer, social gaming)... But pikmin? I'm amazed anyone cares
Last years e3 they more or less said they were aiming for the core user. Going off what we know now and titles not supporting a very core feature of online play they are dropping th ball or is core no longer there target again and like wii they are going after the mainstream again?.
Seems to me that they are mostly aiming at the casual crowd, once again. They showed nothing core about Wii U this year, other than old ports, the only new one being AC3.
Scofield94941
Member
brb gonna go play Brawl online with strangers and wait 20 minutes to find a game. Oh how I love Nintendo and their online games. All I would do is play brawl online and I literally have 100 hours logged in...50 hours was me having the screen loading looking for people to play with. I'm not joking either.
Storm Prelude
Member
Well, I didn't expected a DEATHMATCH MULTIPLAYER ACTION! but it would have been nice to play online with a friend...
I can understand why it doesn't have the normal multiplayer game online with all those characters..on the flipside there's nothing to stop them having other online modes...or changing the game for online.
They could include a mode where you can create and share levels, objects and enemies (or even Pikmin) online...or have an online multiplayer mode where you are limited to five Pikmin each.
They could include a mode where you can create and share levels, objects and enemies (or even Pikmin) online...or have an online multiplayer mode where you are limited to five Pikmin each.
Wouldn't it be easier and better to just play with computer players instead in that case? I mean, I understand wanting to play with friends online (I enjoy that, too)...but if you're just going to be playing random people online, why not just play computers instead? It's an honest question, I'm not trying to attack anyone's opinions here or anything. I've never quite understood why people like to play with random people online so much, it's pretty much exactly the same as playing versus a computer player to me, except with the added potential for lag and disconnects. Especially in a game like Brawl's case where there's no real form of communication between players, I don't really understand the appeal of fighting random people online when you can just be playing computer players. You even have the added benefit of being able to set the level of a computer player, but if you're playing someone random who knows what skill level you'll be up against. Maybe it's just me, but I can play Brawl's multiplayer with computer players for hours on end and it's still fun to me (of course I like local multiplayer with friends even better).
Again, this is a genuine question. A lot of people seem to not understand my opinions, and likewise I don't understand many of yours. Different ways of thinking, I guess. I ask questions like these in an attempt to understand, not to start an argument and be called a fanboy.
Spotless Mind
Member
Pikmin 2's multiplayer was an insane amount of fun. That's why people care. Local multiplayer isn't an option for me anymore, so Nintendo are pretty much assuring that i now won't ever touch that component of the game. Is it really that hard to understand that most people would prefer to play this type of game online these days? Pikmin isn't exactly a casual party game. Having the option to play online without the requirement of someone in the same room seems like a realistic expectation to me.
I'm ashamed to say I've never played pikmin 2 coop multiplayer - only the competitive version which I didn't like so much. Its a shame you have to unlock it - is there an easy way to do that?
You're right, Pikmin having no online has little to do with it being impossible to achieve. I can believe though it would require lots of time to optimize the code, which has then been dedicated to another project. Pikmin sales potential is quite weak, it's a niche fan service title - no Star Craft by any mean.
Doesn't make this decision less disappointing, but they could partly make up for it, offering the best local multiplayer set up ever seen on a console, with 2 players playing in ideal conditions on their own full screen (without needing the usual LAN set up of 2 consoles & 2 TVs linked by a cable). That would be a breakthrough.
Fighiting games in general are much more fun when played against human opponents. The CPU doesn't play as a human, and it can even give you bad habits that human opponents will exploit. I'd never buy a fighting game that I can't play with other people, online or offline. Playing the CPU is just boring, I had to force myself to clear BlazBlue arcade mode, and I only did it once anyway.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I think this will be one of many threads discussing the woes of Wii U online capabilities.
I'd expect the worst folks, across the board.
I'd expect the worst folks, across the board.
I'm not defending the lack of online in general, I'm saying that in the specific case of Pikmin, it makes sense that it wouldn't have online multiplayer. I'm not expecting it for P-100, either.
Okay, I guess I think differently in this case because I don't play Smash Bros. competitively. If you play a game competitively, then I can understand wanting to play against random people online over computer players. But if you're just playing for fun, like I do, I don't see much reason to play random people online over computer players.
But I guess this is getting off topic now, since this really doesn't have anything to do with Pikmin.
abstract alien
Member
To put it simply...the AI in fighters is very far from what you would find in even the most novice of players. It usually gets difficult through artificial means, such as reading your moves and whatnot. Older Mortal Kombat games were notorious for this, and is actually the reason I got my tag lol. A human opponent will learn, adapt, strategize, etc. Things that current fighter AI simply have not done much of yet. It's like playing metal gear and you sneak up behind a guard and hit him...then the alert goes off and it's like it never happened. That isn't how a live opponent is going to treat the situation, and it's what makes competitive fighters, well, competitive.
Same will go for Pikmin. The AI would likely be a far cry from the things a human opponent would do, so it could only offer you a taste of what the meat of it could potentially offer.
one thing that might complicate this is voice chat. I think for coop online to work you'd need to have voice chat implemented, and maybe Nintendo aren't confident to have that up and ready for launch. Or maybe their online generally wasn't mature enough.
I'm going to chalk this up to 'wii port' + 'online situation uncertain' + 'launch game so just get it done'.
Pikmin 4 better have online though. No excuses.
I'm going to chalk this up to 'wii port' + 'online situation uncertain' + 'launch game so just get it done'.
Pikmin 4 better have online though. No excuses.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Honestly the one 'next generation' thing Nintendo could really impress with would be a great ecosystem. I just can't see it, Nintendo and on-line don't go hand in hand.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
can't really get enraged because I can't remember the last time I ever managed to organise a co-op anything.
walking fiend
Member
I think it's going to mostly depend on who is developing the online; if it's limited to their internal teams who previously made online for Nintendo games, I expect the worst.
But at least on paper, it seems they are on the right track as long as the infrastructure goes.
Most multiplayer games use P2P. Try again.
In FPS/TPS games, you can cheat and hide the lag somewhat. In games like NSMB, you just can't hide the lag. And in games like Pikmin, how should one hide the lag in there? You move a bit to the left and instantly your Pikmins will walk there too. As soon as there is a bit latency involved, it would look like shit.
They could of course "solve it" by creating a separate Pikmin for online, where you control your Pikmins via Map only (just like all those RTS games people are talking about in here). That would work, but it wouldn't be Pikmin anymore.
Strangely noone complained about Rayman Origins having no online multiplayer. Guess what, same problem as in Mario, although Rayman Origins is already not that accurate in the controls department.
plagiarize
Banned
if Pikmin 3 only had online multiplayer and didn't have offline multiplayer, would you still be complaining? adding online multiplayer requires a lot more work and testing than adding local multiplayer. this is still a launch / launch window game.
yeah, it could be done, but that doesn't make it easy. that doesn't make it worth doing if it's going to potentially lead to the product missing that launch window or ending up with crap MP.
i've never understood judging a game on anything other than what it is. expecting Pikmin 3 to have online was daft wasn't it? you know, given that it's never been rumoured to have online mp, and that now it's been confirmed not to have it.
i can see why some people would like it and would play it, but that doesn't mean those of us totally okay with not having it are blind fanboys, and it sure as shit doesn't mean that every game that has offline MP should have online MP no matter what (or the opposite for that matter).
Again you're being silly. And you're not making sense, somehow it's a waste of talent, yet apparantly the team is so untalented that they need 70 people working for years on what 5 people could have done in 2 months.
From my experience with games like Bionic Commando Rearmed I can easily see why NSMBW needed a much bigger team and costs 5 times as much. No one is saying the budget is near as high as something like Watchdog, and there's no reason for it to be, but it's still probably quite substantial.
Saying how the core design and physics has been available for a long time is ridiculous. You could say the same thing about any sequel ever. They won't be able to reuse code from the NES games, and the physics are completely different. And honestly the core gameplay and character movement doesn't really take that much time in any type of game compared to making all the content, levels and different enemies, wich NSMB has quite a lot of. Also there are no sprites in NSMBW and the models and animations are about as high quality as you could possibly expect from a cartoony sidescroller.
Super Meat Boy is a really crappy game to compare it too. It's a completely different game for starters, it doesn't have near the amount of enemies or interactive objects, and that's a game were you can really start complaining about lazy graphics.
This does nothing but further add to the sterotype that Nintendo are backwards/different to the other hardware providers.
That being said, I rarely if ever touch online components of any game (barring Fifa) so online or lack therof does not impact my decision when buying a game, and it does not change my positive stance towards Pikmin 3 or Wii U either.
That being said, I rarely if ever touch online components of any game (barring Fifa) so online or lack therof does not impact my decision when buying a game, and it does not change my positive stance towards Pikmin 3 or Wii U either.
Fans: "We wan't Pikmen! Please give us Pikmen back!"
Nintendo: "Here, we created a new Pikmen game. Sadly we didn't have planed an Online-Mode for it, but we put all our efforts into a exciting single-player game with an nice local-multiplayer-mode. We hope you enjo...
Fans: "What no Online-Mode! We hate you! Keep your crap! We want a new new Pikmen! "
Every game needs to have everything for some people. Even if it game loses it main focus through this. Do people really believe, that they will have less fun then before without an Online-Mode. I also would been happy with it, but only if the developers really focus on this part.
Nintendo: "Here, we created a new Pikmen game. Sadly we didn't have planed an Online-Mode for it, but we put all our efforts into a exciting single-player game with an nice local-multiplayer-mode. We hope you enjo...
Fans: "What no Online-Mode! We hate you! Keep your crap! We want a new new Pikmen! "
Every game needs to have everything for some people. Even if it game loses it main focus through this. Do people really believe, that they will have less fun then before without an Online-Mode. I also would been happy with it, but only if the developers really focus on this part.