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[DrArchon]

Yeah, I'm thinking this is just KT thinking to themselves "This won't sell enough in the West to make it worth it but we can't show weakness so blame something else."

Blaming "SJWs" instead of acknowledging the niche-ness of their game strikes me as kinda scummy and makes it look like they're looking for some sweet GG bucks to get thrown their way.

 

[Corpekata]

yeah but he also has good looks and PS1 emulation

Man you're saying your uncle is good looking, you might be the creepy one.

 

[Maebe]

There's no "both sides for this". Their shitty game was being ignored completely, so they told a lie to get people to backlash against an imaginary hypothethical backlash, then play asia was even less subtle in telling simple lies to separate naive fools from their money.

The sides are these:

Companies pandering to people who hate SJWs.
Naive people who think these companies are victims and/or freedom fighter.
People who is calling bullshit on all of this and backlashing against the lie that started the backlash against the non existed backlash.

Conclusion: people still are ignoring the shitty game, but some fool thinks that buying it makes him a defender of free speech against the horrors of fascist tumblr.

I was wondering if I missed some controversy related to this title. It literally appeared out of nowhere.

 

[Sblargh]

I highly doubt anyone is reconsidering their contract. Play Asia is one of the biggest Asia to America importers on the internet.

Then she is wrong, but she is not saying that she will use her superpowers to cancel other companies contracts.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

No it isn't. I'm saying be nicer about it. I'm not as familiar with transsexual orientation and was not as familiar with how offensive the word is seen. Educate me don't belittle me.

You used a slur. A hateful term. And you were rightfully called out for it. A slur doesn't deserve to be met with something 'nicer' (and on the mean scale 'grow up' is frankly pretty benign). So I'm actually going to agree with it. Grow up. A grown up doesn't play like they're a victim because their ignorance was put on blast. They apologize, and attempt to make an effort to not make the mistake again. Your response should have cut off at "I feel bad and I apologize". Not "I feel bad, but you should be nicer to me for using something hurtful. This is why people don't like you!"

 

[radios shipping overview]

Is "SJW" on its own considered hate speech now or something?

It's become a code-word that's inextricably linked to a hate group. To gamergaters, "SJW" has come to mean "them that disagree with us." Using it pretty much implies that you agree with them, whether or not you use it with intention.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Man you're saying your uncle is good looking, you might be the creepy one.

Just be glad I didn't bring up the touch pad on his back.

 

[Klossen]

Yeah, I'm thinking this is just KT thinking to themselves "This won't sell enough in the West to make it worth it but we can't show weakness so blame something else."

Blaming "SJWs" instead of acknowledging the niche-ness of their game strikes me as kinda scummy and makes it look like they're looking for some sweet GG bucks to get thrown their way.

KT never blamed SJWs. They said the social media landscape had changed in the past two years. That's literally it. I really don't think we should assume they're working with GG. It's unfounded bad-mouthing.

 

[NotLiquid]

Why are these archive.is links?

The latter has their profile protected/turned their Twitter private apparently.

 

[Minister of the Dog]

I'll second the notion of "add men"

Make them the male equivalent of how ridiculous the women act and you have one of the most silly games possible.

Who wouldn't want to see two body builders booty-bumping each other off a floatie?

Something similar to this?

 

[Forkball]

Released this year with no issues.

Spoiler

Ar No Surge+


Akiba's Trip

Onechanbara Z2


Senran Kagura: Deep Crimson


Senran Kagura: Estival Versus


Dungeon Travelers 2


Criminal Girls: Invite Only


Operation Abyss


Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth1,2 and 3


Hyperdevotion Noire


Omega Quintet

and... Dead or Alive 5: Last Round.

Oh, the backlash against these games was huge. Things getting real hard if you want to bring over Japanese sexy girl games to North America. Life on those streets.

Do any of these games have Black Friday deals?

Asking for a friend.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Well they're not wrong...

Even if SJWs haven't actually started protesting the game yet, the fact that companies now fear them is still on them.

They don't fear them. This is just a silly tweet from P-A.

 

[Kaiterra]

KT never blamed SJWs. They said the social media landscape had changed in the past two years. That's literally it. I really don't think we should assume they're working with GG. It's unfounded bad-mouthing.

Yeah that's fair.

Play-Asia doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt though.

 

[Phocks]

Yeah, I'm thinking this is just KT thinking to themselves "This won't sell enough in the West to make it worth it but we can't show weakness so blame something else."

Blaming "SJWs" instead of acknowledging the niche-ness of their game strikes me as kinda scummy and makes it look like they're looking for some sweet GG bucks to get thrown their way.

what are GG bucks

 

[MotionBlue]

Is there a way to speak out against sex negative feminism without being a Gamergater ally?

Seems unfair and presumptuous to lump P-A in with GG when they haven't voiced support. Sad how entrenched everyone is in this.

Or am I missing something they've said besides those flippant tweets?

This seems like the most reasonable post in this thread.

It's become a code-word that's inextricably linked to a hate group. To gamergaters, "SJW" has come to mean "them that disagree with us." Using it pretty much implies that you agree with them, whether or not you use it with intention.

WTF? Shit like this is why this board can't have serious discussions anymore. its almost as bad as "avatarquote" circle jerk.

 

[DrArchon]

KT never blamed SJWs. They said the social media landscape had changed in the past two years. That's literally it. I really don't think we should assume they're working with GG. It's unfounded bad-mouthing.

Sorry, my mistake. Should have actually read instead of skimmed. You are correct, KT didn't blame SJWs. And I would never assume that they're in cahoots with GG, rather that they were just appealing to them to get money (which is what Play-Asia is clearly doing).

 

[Palculator]

I edited my previous post to provide you a more accurate idea of what sex-negative feminism is. But as a response to this post, maybe you should quote those people or link the articles if you're going to make the case of associating them with sex-negative feminism. Otherwise it looks like you're just making up a boogeyman.

I don't think they're making up a boogeyman. Here are two of the more recent posts I remember:

I would argue it is. DOAX3, if previous games in the series are any indication, is garbage for idiots, bad as games and as cultural items depicting women. They're terrible, and people defending them likely aren't any better.

If you want to make a porn game then go right ahead. Don't make this softcore playboy shit designed to sell overpriced DLC costumes to sex-starved neckbeards and pretend it's a volleyball game.

I wouldn't even care if this game did get released in the west, the market can decide whether they want it or not.

Not saying these count as sex-negative feminism because I don't think they do, they do sound a lot like shaming. Not an exhaustive sample of the thread, and I wouldn't even say the majority of NeoGAF feels this way seeing the generally positive reaction to DOAX3 promotional material in the respective threads. But they stuck out to me as being particularly hostile. And even in the DOAX3 threads you get the occasional post like this. If you punch some of the other derogatory terms used in this context into the search bar, I'm sure you'll find some more. Or if you're looking for more general examples, have a go at the "Too much fanservice" thread.

I'm not trying to say it's a huge issue or a very common sentiment -- at least regarding the games so openly about fanservice -- but claiming people are making up a boogeyman isn't true either. It's obviously a very subjective thing and that easily leads to some unwarranted hostility.

Also, the Dragon's Crown kerfuffle with Jason Schreier is pretty infamous too. But it would be unfair omit the fact that Jason changed his mind about this after the resulting backlash.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

what are GG bucks

arin and jon's failed attempt at creating an economy based on game grumps

 

[TurnipFritters]

what are GG bucks

The money that Gamergaters will throw around to support anyone who remotely seems to be on their side.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Yes, clearly there's a pattern here.

I would hate to think that Aspyr signed off on this shit.

 

[Head.spawn]

Uh, here's an idea: ADD MEN. Easy.

Honestly. If they added men to the game, I guarantee so many more people would be okay with the game's existence. I know I would.

Edit: ew 'trannies', really? Grow up.

And that in a nutshell is my problem with the backlash and "criticism"; wanting creators to change things, because you don't like it or think it should be different.

The premise that someone should change something, because people are offended and think someone should include something they didn't envision, just to pander is beyond infuriating. And I don't even play these games.

 

[Anton Sugar]

This seems like the most reasonable post in this thread.

What does "sex-negative feminism" have to do with any of this?

 

[Kinyou]

Yeah, I'm thinking this is just KT thinking to themselves "This won't sell enough in the West to make it worth it but we can't show weakness so blame something else."

Blaming "SJWs" instead of acknowledging the niche-ness of their game strikes me as kinda scummy and makes it look like they're looking for some sweet GG bucks to get thrown their way.

That seems a bit too elaborate to me. I see no reason for them to lie.

The question to me is if they're right to be worried or not.

 

[Sblargh]

The money that Gamergaters will throw around to support anyone who remotely seems to be on their side.

Which, to be honest, might not even be much, but I guess it is better than the no money the no event that is this game would get.

 

[Phocks]

arin and jon's failed attempt at creating an economy based on game grumps

my sides

The money that Gamergaters will throw around to support anyone who remotely seems to be on their side.

The other side of the coin?

 

[radios shipping overview]

WTF? Shit like this is why this board can't have serious discussions anymore. its almost as bad as "avatarquote" circle jerk.

Maybe don't use dumb catch-all phrases to represent boogeymen? Maybe talk about people as people?

 

[TurnipFritters]

And that in a nutshell is my problem with the backlash and "criticism"; wanting creators to change things, because you don't like it or think it should be different.

The premise that someone should change something, because people are offended and think someone should include something they didn't envision, just to pander is beyond infuriating. And I don't even play these games.

Why won't anyone think of the artistic integrity of the titty game that was designed entirely as pandering.

 

[Sai-kun]

Something similar to this?

Not...not at all...

This is why we need more women and queer men in the industry lmao.

Ideally, there would be a bunch of guys with a whole range of body types, from what queer guys might refer to as 'twinks' to 'otters', and all the way up to 'bears'.

omg I just thought of the best thing. Instead of some stupid shit like a 'boob slider', the guys would get a hair slider. So the further up you go, the hairier your guy gets, letting everyone customize their guys just the way they like (little to no hair for me, personally). And of course the facial hair slider would be separate from the body hair slider.

Definitely different kinds of swimsuits too. Bikini/thongs are fine, but squarecut/boxer brief-length swimsuits are good too. And throw in wrestling singlets too, for the hell of it.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I edited it. Sorry. And yeah telling me to grow up really pulls me over to your side. I feel bad using the word but it's this shaming that breeds anger and frustration.

True. Can't say shit, I'm pretty moderate in regards to the whole thing. I certainly can't get down with the toxicity exhibited with extreme GG'ers and I think harassing women like Anita S. as well as other outspoken feminists is abhorrent and actually counterproductive to their goals. On the flip side, I'm fearful of engaging in most discussions regarding similar matters because I don't want to instantly be labeled as someone in GG or sexist, especially as I've always been someone to respect the opinions and viewpoints of others.

You see it a lot around here lately and it kills any reasonable discussion. I remember a gentlemen here and myself stated that we shouldn't jump to any conclusions regarding the specific company when QA tester story a couple weeks back came out. Someone quickly implied we were defending the behaviors exhibited in the article. It's depressing, I was raised by one of the strongest women out there who instilled a strong sense of respect for women others who taught me the things that my father should have and I've got to deal with that crap.

We could do with a lot less of that type of shaming around these parts. I may not agree with everyone 100% of the time, but I'll never disrespect your right to have an opinion. This goes both ways, that SJW shit has got to stop and in negatively influences a discussion from the outset.

 

[Mael]

I don't think they're making up a boogeyman. Here are two of the more recent posts I remember:



Not saying these count as sex-negative feminism because I don't think they do, they do sound a lot like shaming. Not an exhaustive sample of the thread, and I wouldn't even say the majority of NeoGAF feels this way seeing the generally positive reaction to DOAX3 promotional material in the respective threads. But they stuck out to me as being particularly hostile. And even in the DOAX3 threads you get the occasional post like this. If you punch some of the other derogatory terms used in this context into the search bar, I'm sure you'll find some more. Or if you're looking for more general examples, have a go at the "Too much fanservice" thread.

I'm not trying to say it's a huge issue or a very common sentiment -- at least regarding the games so openly about fanservice -- but claiming people are making up a boogeyman isn't true either. It's obviously a very subjective thing and that easily leads to some unwarranted hostility.

Also, the Dragon's Crown kerfuffle with Jason Schreier is pretty infamous too. But it would be unfair omit the fact that Jason changed his mind about this after the resulting backlash.

Stop lumping DoA X franchise with Dragon Crown.
By all account DOAX2 wasn't a very good game.
People shitting on that "God is Dead" are not all atheist who only drink at the fountain of Dawkins or something.
It's also a legitimately bad movie.
Same goes for DoAX (at least so far), they're bad games and there's nothing wrong criticizing for what they are.

 

[Apathy]

Released this year with no issues.

Spoiler

Ar No Surge+


Akiba's Trip

Onechanbara Z2


Senran Kagura: Deep Crimson


Senran Kagura: Estival Versus


Dungeon Travelers 2


Criminal Girls: Invite Only


Operation Abyss


Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth1,2 and 3


Hyperdevotion Noire


Omega Quintet

and... Dead or Alive 5: Last Round.

Oh, the backlash against these games was huge. Things getting real hard if you want to bring over Japanese sexy girl games to North America. Life on those streets.

Didn't some of these get censored for the West thought? I'm almost certain criminal girls did.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

That seems a bit too elaborate to me. I see no reason for them to lie.

The question to me is if they're right to be worried or not.

I honestly would like someone to walk me through what there is to be worried about. OK, so game comes out that strikes some progressive commentators as objectifying women and they say something bad about it. That very well could happen. So what? I don't understand what would be so damaging about it provided that you're a company that has made games like this in the past and believes in the product.

 

[prag16]

It's become a code-word that's inextricably linked to a hate group. To gamergaters, "SJW" has come to mean "them that disagree with us." Using it pretty much implies that you agree with them, whether or not you use it with intention.

That's bullshit. The term was around long before gamergate reared its head. Should people use "internet PC police" instead?

It's funny the hate South Park is now getting around here for allegedly popularizing the PC term. Is "you PC, bro?" next on the list for offensive hate speech classification?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I don't think they're making up a boogeyman. Here are two of the more recent posts I remember:

I wouldn't know if they were since they weren't being addressed directly in the original post. Their response made it sound like there was some conglomerate of 'sex-negative feminists' who were attacking people for liking DOAX3. But there weren't. Just a few poor posts using words like 'idiot' and 'neckbeard'.

 

[Corpekata]

Yes, clearly there's a pattern here.

I would hate to think that Aspyr signed off on this shit.

Direct 2 Drive's new tagline:

"For when Steam, Greenmangaming, Nuuvem, Gamersgate, and WinGamestore somehow all stop having sales at the same time, maybe? Please?"

Soon to be "Hey, at least we're not Impulse or Desura."

 

[Kinyou]

Stop lumping DoA X franchise to Dragon Crown.
By all account DOAX2 wasn't a very good game.
People shitting on that "God is Dead" are not all atheist who only drink at the fountain of Dawkins or something.
It's also a legitimately bad movie.
Same goes for DoAX (at least so far), they're bad games and there's nothing wrong criticizing for what they are.

When people complain about the game I rarely hear them complain about any gameplay. If it was just a shitty game it would never garner that much attention.

 

[aeolist]

And that in a nutshell is my problem with the backlash and "criticism"; wanting creators to change things, because you don't like it or think it should be different.

The premise that someone should change something, because people are offended and think someone should include something they didn't envision, just to pander is beyond infuriating. And I don't even play these games.

complaining about things we want changed in games is 90% of what happens on this forum

 

[Valdfellgar]

Ok, it's passion. But maybe passion isn't such a great thing when it's militantly focused on "defending" brands and commercial products from criticism or alteration?

I'm not talking about GG calling for games to be above criticism, or anything like that of the kind. And I also don't believe that sexualized games shouldn't be criticized, but instead criticized using a different scale or set of values.

If developers are afraid of the 'shaming' they may endure from making a game like DOAX, then why are they making games like DOAX?

Here's the funny thing: most feminist critiques would give a game like DOAX a pass BECAUSE it is purely eye-candy and is being honest about it. It's precisely games like DoA that draw criticism because they obfuscate an otherwise solid fighting game with tits and ass to sell it. And even then, DoA still gets a bit of a pass because, in some way, they are also being honest about just being a solid fighting game with tits and ass.

Probably because they're a primarily Japan based company and this controversy is much more mild in Japan compared to here.

You used a slur. A hateful term. And you were rightfully called out for it. A slur doesn't deserve to be met with something 'nicer' (and on the mean scale 'grow up' is frankly pretty benign). So I'm actually going to agree with it. Grow up. A grown up doesn't play like they're a victim because their ignorance was put on blast. They apologize, and attempt to make an effort to not make the mistake again. Your response should have cut off at "I feel bad and I apologize". Not "I feel bad, but you should be nicer to me for using something hurtful. This is why people don't like you!"

Look. I apologized. I felt bad even without the telling me to "grow up." I hate the word weaboo to describe anime fans, and I'd hate it if it was used to describe me in absence. So I get it. Let's drop it now, shall we?

 

[TurnipFritters]

Didn't some of these get censored for the West thought? I'm almost certain criminal girls did.

I mean, even if it was censored, the game's entire concept is way grosser and more misogynistic than dead or alive beach boobs 3.

 

[Palculator]

Stop lumping DoA X franchise to Dragon Crown.
By all account DOAX2 wasn't a very good game.
People shitting on that "God is Dead" are not all atheist who only drink at the fountain of Dawkins or something.
It's also a legitimately bad movie.
Same goes for DoAX (at least so far), they're bad games and there's nothing wrong criticizing for what they are.

But the post wasn't about the games being criticised, it was about its fans being directly insulted. Nor did I say the games can't be criticised.

 

[radios shipping overview]

That's bullshit. The term was around long before gamergate reared its head. Should people use "internet PC police" instead?

It was around, being used by the same kind of people who put in with GG. It was always used to shut down discussion via namecalling. The term wasn't helpful in the first place, and now it's further tainted by association.

 

[GuardianE]

I honestly would like someone to walk me through what there is to be worried about. OK, so game comes out that strikes some progressive commentators as objectifying women and they say something bad about it. That very well could happen. So what? I don't understand what would be so damaging about it provided that you're a company that has made games like this in the past and believes in the product.

Speculating here, but climate change in the past few years might focus the lens more on their products and despite the "free publicity" angle that's being pushed, it might strain relationships theyll have with retailers?

 

[MHWilliams]

Didn't some of these get censored for the West thought? I'm almost certain criminal girls did.

Criminal Girls was pretty much the only one. Monster Monpiece was the one last year that was censored.

Speculating here, but climate change in the past few years might focus the lens more on their products and despite the "free publicity" angle that's being pushed, it might strain relationships the I'll have with retailers?

Wouldn't those relationships have been strained with Last Round and the upcoming Nights of Azure?

 

[Anton Sugar]

I honestly would like someone to walk me through what there is to be worried about. OK, so game comes out that strikes some progressive commentators as objectifying women and they say something bad about it. That very well could happen. So what? I don't understand what would be so damaging about it provided that you're a company that has made games like this in the past and believes in the product.

This. It's not like all the feminists were going to buy copies of the game to burn in a pyre. It would likely be criticize by some outlets--and that's it.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

When people complain about the game I rarely hear them complain about any gameplay. If it was just a shitty game it would never garner that much attention.

try playing DOAX1, 2 or the PSP game. they're all pretty damn bad, except DOA1's volleyball is decent. but it wasn't even 4 players so it was a total waste.

X2 struggled to hold 30fps.

 

[LordGorchnik]

Slightly off topic but just out of curiosity, can anyone hazard a guess at how much of a cut K-T would be taking from all these Asian version pre-orders? Or rather I guess what I am asking (which no one probably knows) is does K-T get a higher cut from these Asian editions sold from Hong Kong or do American published games usually demand a higher return?

 

[TurnipFritters]

This. It's not like all the feminists were going to buy copies of the game to burn in a pyre. It would likely be criticize by some outlets--and that's it.

Even if they bought copies to burn them, they would still be buying the copies and KT would still be getting the money, so.

 

[Griss]

It's become a code-word that's inextricably linked to a hate group. To gamergaters, "SJW" has come to mean "them that disagree with us." Using it pretty much implies that you agree with them, whether or not you use it with intention.

This is utter horseshit.

1. The term was around long before GG. Urban Dictionary has a definition from early 2012.
2. I know nothing of Gamergate and have always seen that term to mean 'a proponent of nasty, point-scoring progressiveness that isn't about the victim but rather about boosting one's social standing'. Those kinds of people certainly exist. I don't see why they can't have their own derisive moniker. They certainly deserve one.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

That's bullshit. The term was around long before gamergate reared its head. Should people use "internet PC police" instead?

It's funny the hate South Park is now getting around here for allegedly popularizing the PC term. Is "you PC, bro?" next on the list for offensive hate speech classification?

The OT for this current season is overall really positive. I also think PC Principal is hilarious

Spoiler

but think having the big season twist be that everything was sponsored content falls limp.

 

[AtomskEater]

Not...not at all...

This is why we need more women and queer men in the industry lmao.

Ideally, there would be a bunch of guys with a whole range of body types, from what queer guys might refer to as 'twinks' to 'otters', and all the way up to 'bears'.

omg I just thought of the best thing. Instead of some stupid shit like a 'boob slider', the guys would get a hair slider. So the further up you go, the hairier your guy gets, letting everyone customize their guys just the way they like (little to no hair for me, personally). And of course the facial hair slider would be separate from the body hair slider.

Definitely different kinds of swimsuits too. Bikini/thongs are fine, but squarecut/boxer brief-length swimsuits are good too. And throw in wrestling singlets too, for the hell of it.

Ever heard of "No Thank You!"? It's a gay visual novel that actually has different body types (gasp!) and options for body hair. You can choose all over, just the crotch, or bare as a baby's bottom. Not everything about it was perfect, but it certainly was very interesting in a genre that feels very "samey" after having played a few.

Anyway, I like the cut of your gib, whenever I get around to becoming rich and opening a game company I'll keep you in mind as an idea guy.