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Play.TM: Killzone 3 Due This Xmas - Will Support ARC (RUMOUR)
- Thread starter Baki
- Start date
TTP said:
Trust me, I've been going back and forth on this a lot. It needs to be loose.
Faster turning speed though usually means that it will react faster the more you leave the center (tigher bounding box, so in a way the Uzi is closer to fixed than the bazooka).
I'm just saying having it totally or nearly fixed doesn't really work in a pointer fps title.
The looseness of the cross-hair also elevates the feeling of realism in my experience.
-viper- said:
I agree.
I would like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VBM...C00887735&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1
vs. this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrDL53ps21s
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
-viper- said:
I'm personally interested in ARC only because Wii games can be ported to PS3 and PS3 games with ARC controls can be ported to Wii. Win-win for both consoles (since PS3 doesn't have enough casual games like Wii does and Wii doesn't have any hardcore games like PS3 does).
Using that RE video to demonstrate loose cross-hair is anti-propaganda 
Here's properly tuned controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqL-ljIc78
Best console fps controls.
Here's properly tuned controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqL-ljIc78
Best console fps controls.
I think that vid did a good job of showing that you can do 'fixed' well. But I think it depends on the controller and how it feels and its characteristics...lots of unknowns at the moment there with arc.
Fixed or unfixed, I'm sure devs will do whatever fits best with the controller. Personally though I like the idea of fixed if it works, since this is closer to what's worked best for a long long time on PC.
Fixed or unfixed, I'm sure devs will do whatever fits best with the controller. Personally though I like the idea of fixed if it works, since this is closer to what's worked best for a long long time on PC.
gofreak said:
Interesting bit is that Sixense device seems to be based on gyros/accelerometers alone (edit: actually it's a different tech altogether based on magnetism. http://sixense.com/).
Perhaps a Wand/KZ3 bundles (without EyeToy) will suffice. Not sure how much the Arc thing needs the camera to do its stuff. Perhaps it doesn't need it at all to achieve what we see in that L4D video.
I just hope KZ3 does not get fucked up due to some forced motion control agenda. As long as it still plays the same as KZ2 I'll be happy. Personally I hate motion controls in general for hardcore games but if they pull it off and make the transition from traditional control to motion control without making it feel forced and tacky, I'll welcome it. Else please leave KZ alone or at least have the option to play with a DS controller. I guess E3 will tell more when we get 100% details on Arc and may be KZ3 too.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Man said:Using that RE video to demonstrate loose cross-hair is anti-propaganda
Here's properly tuned controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqL-ljIc78
Best console fps controls.
I see auto-lock?
Example: 22-32sec of that Youtube video, you see by his aim and stretched arms where he is expecting encounters.Gaogaogao said:
That square isn't auto aim. It's just a hud thing in the Conduit.shagg_187 said:
Again, The Conduit isn't a good game. Low fps, so so hit detection and generally 2001 era garbage. But it does controls really right.
It's 100% adjustable. Vertically separate from horizontally, bounding box...everything. I agree with you, he has too low vertical speed (or bounding box starts to far up/down of center).Gaogaogao said:
The Conduit has probably the most in-depth customisable console controls ever.
You can even drag and drop the various hud elements around to your liking (radar, health and ammo in the middle of the screen yay...).
-WindYoshi-
Banned
For FPS controls, almost all of the pioneering has been done already on the Wii. The textbook is written! If any devs screw up with FPS controls with Arc there will be no excuse.
I sort of doubt that tbh, but we'll know more on the technical specifics next month at GDC.TTP said:
Plus I really don't even want them to promote that kind of gaming, just push the PS Eye as it brings a whole slew of other advantages (mic/voice recognition, camera/head tracking etc).
As for the pricing though, when you look at the Wii pricing you'd think a wand + nunchuck would amount to $45-50, plus a PS Eye for $25-35, and then a game of course.. obviously bundles will always cost less, but I doubt they can include a 'real' game in a PS wand bundle without the PS Eye, or else they'd need two types of game bundles which isn't happening. I'd also like to point out that from the looks of what we know about the supposed nunchuck, using it and the wand together gives you the same amount of button inputs as a DS3, just minus a stick (which is replaced by motion controls) and a R1 trigger. So theoretically speaking, any current game could implement motion controls as the lack of input buttons is no longer an issue.
Man said:Using that RE video to demonstrate loose cross-hair is anti-propaganda
Here's properly tuned controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqL-ljIc78
Best console fps controls.
That is also good, but I think the bounding box needs to be a little narrower, at least for my taste. He gets the cursor almost to the edge of the screen before the camera starts turning.
Edit: Its customizeable, which fixes that. Excellent.
Somewhere between L4D and Conduit would give the sense of weight we want and also the accuracy, without straying into RE4 territory.
The point is that it is totally doable to have semi-fixed/fixed reticle to view and be very very playable and fun with the tech that is in the Wiimote and the new Arc. Hell, I almost wonder if you can do it with just 2 sixaxis controllers.
SolidSnakex
Member
Man said:Using that RE video to demonstrate loose cross-hair is anti-propaganda
Here's properly tuned controls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqL-ljIc78
Best console fps controls.
That's still loose compared to the Left 4 Dead video. The L4D video demonstrates motion controls being done with the cross hairs centered like you'd see in a mouse/keyboard or dual analog controlled FPS.
zoukka said:
So you want Arc to be seen as "useful" then it to be a peripheral and make KZ3 possibly a terrible game by forcing shit controls?
FUCK THAT.
Arc can kiss my ass. Shit controls better not be forced on this game or any of the AAA Sony titles. That shit was made for causal gaming not hardcore games. I think ppls are getting into Waggle wars and justify ARC's existence by forcing it into any game. That simple...how about you guys get off that fanboy BS thinkin!?
You dont think Arc will be terrible for FPSs?? What Wii game made you think it was meant for that genre? Have you played KZ2??? :lol KZ3+Waggle = turn into a shit game. go play KZ2 and think of playing with Arc controls. Then come back. If the lagg+boosting+32 fuckups+weightyness doesnt ring a bell, gtfo with your bs thinking.
Cool, so you've used it then? How's KZ3 shaping up btw? Seriously, you can't judge with such extreme opinions without even using it or knowing how it would be applied to begin with.Cruzader said:
I don't KZ3 to have mandatory MC either, but saying option would suck without knowing more than we do is ignorance.
K sorry for my RAGE post but forcing Arc controls on KZ3? Are you serious? Anyone who has played that game wouldnt want that, trust me. Hell most of us didnt want that stupid changed they made with a patch.
Yea I havent played with Arc or KZ3 but forcing it onto games just to justify it it the dumbest thing I've read.
Yea I havent played with Arc or KZ3 but forcing it onto games just to justify it it the dumbest thing I've read.
I'm still wondering about Arc support - how will they keep the 'weightiness' with a motion controller? Will it be unresponsive to compensate? Or are they going to drop this whole aspect from Killzone 3 altogether?
A major concern with this is multiplayer, how will they address the balance if some players are using Arc and others using a normal controller?
A major concern with this is multiplayer, how will they address the balance if some players are using Arc and others using a normal controller?
For the hundredth time, no one is saying forced MC in KZ3, just an an optional way to play the SP for example. And once again you make too many assumptions. I've played the game for countless hours, and I have enough of an open mind to see that the possibility of motion being applied with such accuracy could result in really interesting gameplay mechanics.Cruzader said:
Just wait and see first, we've yet to see it REALLY applied to an fps to judge on what is possible with the kind of accuracy that the wand can allow.
Remember how it's applied to most fps titles, more like a laser being pointed on the screen and the crosshair follows. With this 1:1 you can actually make the gun move in the way the wand moves, thus giving the ability to track real acceleration and apply it in a way that doesn't feel like lag per say, but possibility could feel 'weighty'Garjon said:
It requires a lot of experimentation and more knowledge on how the wand itself works though, which hopefully we'll be saying next month at GDC and more at E3.
Flachmatuch
Member
Ephemeris said:
If it works as well as the Wiimote, people will use motion controls anyway, because dual sticks will be uncompetitive.
Misterinenja said:
Pointer controls are already superior to dual sticks even in their current half-assed state. They're much better for RE4 type games, but it's not that different (you can even turn faster with pointer than with dual sticks).
TTP said:
The thing is, you don't have to "point" to upper right corner in order to move there. A closer analogy is how the analog nub works. If you move the nub from the center, then the pointer in the screen moves to that direction. And how far from the center you moved it determines the speed at what it moved. If you increase the sensibility in the game settings, the same movement with yields bigger on screen distances.
In the wii, if you move the control (camera) from the center, the cursor (and the camera) will move in that direction. Increasing or reducing the cursor and camera speed with yield different results from the same movement. So, a slow RPG would either, require bigger movements or move slower, than a hand gun.
That sounds... a bit odd really. The game would have to ship with an attachable weight or something to keep the heavy feeling consistent. But like you said, we still know little about this device; for all we know, it could have undergone a complete makeover in the past 6 months.Sentry said:
I'm not sure this would be the best approach, otherwise the analog users would then have an advantage, plus fans of this game may not take well to sticky aiming-COOLIO- said:
Bluemercury
Member
:lolRJT said:
Did you guys not read who I was quoting?? That dude said he wish it was forced and that, that needs to happen so Arc is not seen as a 2nd controller...basically which I replied F that. I wouldnt mind optional. Read next time, k.
Also analog users dont need auto aim. Only COD noobs need that. It amazes me that most FPS have that, even though its not needed when you have manual scope views and such.
Also analog users dont need auto aim. Only COD noobs need that. It amazes me that most FPS have that, even though its not needed when you have manual scope views and such.
Flachmatuch
Member
Cruzader said:
TBH reading really stupid posts like yours makes me want the same thing. It's silly though, as I wouldn't want to ruin the game for other people beside you.
Not really, what makes KZ2 feel weighty is (among other things) the time it takes to accelerate/decelerate etc, which is also related to the stick distance movement to actual game results. Similar to what lonley1 stated, what you would do is require broader movements, while this sounds annoying it would actually be more realistic as the time to move your hand from point a to point b will take longer/require more movement thus more acceleration/deceleration then if all you had to do was move your wrist a few degrees to achieve the same distance/results. Hopefully that isn't too obscure of an explanation, lol.Garjon said:
Flachmatuch
Member
Lonely1 said:
Afaik, with the Wiimote, you essentially get direct coordinates of where you're pointing (relative to the "sensor" bar + a very simple transformation) (only talking about the pointing function). With the Arc, you get motion data like angular speeds and whatnot and can calculate a position from that. Where and how you map cursor movement from the data you're getting is your choice, but theoretically, and ignoring calculation delays and drift, the two things could work the same. You can theoretically calculate motion data from pointer data (although this is neither necessary nor a good solution) and pointer data from motion data. The possible difference between them boils down to lag and drift for the Arc afaics.
Sentry said:
I don't like this idea at all. What so good about pointer controls is exactly the speed and accuracy you can achieve. Even slowing down cursor movement a little sounds a bit better than this to me.
Cruzader said:
I see what you mean, but I read his post as forcing it as an option. In other words forcing first party developers to support it alongside DS3 controls. That way we don't end up with just 3 games that support it because no one wants to risk it or someone does it first and poorly and scares everyone off.
After watching the l4d video, I think it can work. Just add a touch of bounding box to give weight effect like KZ2 and it sounds great to me for KZ3. I would be willing to give it a try.
Flachmatuch said:
I know, It's all in the case that Arc can work like, or emulate the wiimote. I explained in another thread why, if arc need mechanical tracking of the rotation angle, I don't think it would be as good as the wii-mote. But I'm assuming (and hopping) it will here.