Would like to see a nice retort to this.
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Playhaven dev fired for sexual jokes after SendGrid marketer outs him on Twitter
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Would like to see a nice retort to this.
WorriedCitizen
Member
Back in the days everything was better.
If the Developer hadn't made the jokes in the first place, none of this would have happened.
endresults
Member
I love this logic.
tkscz
Member
I work with computer hardware, mostly for friends, family, and friends of friends. When I say dongle, usually for wireless signal receiving, male or female, they giggle. Women laugh at and make sex jokes. I don't see this issue as a gender thing, just that of an uptight person's issues with a sexual joke.
You just did. You just argued that there are some jokes that you should not make around women because they are women, but that they'd be fine w/ no women present. If it's a sexist, demeaning joke, it's a sexist demeaning joke, regardless of who hears it.
Right, and so their behavior makes it okay for Adria to take a picture of them and post it to twitter instead of acting like the standout member of the tech community she supposedly is and properly report it?
Oh, yep, you got us. Our entire argument is foiled.
Well Adria chose a public medium to fight her battle, and those guys, despite being in public were having a private conversation, or at least: they weren't addressing the public.
That seems like a big difference to me...
(But for me personally I don't think those guys should be fired, but I can understand it, they were representing their companies and they didn't do that proper)
Keep in mind, this isn't my logic! It's Alucrid's.
It doesn't make sense when applied to anyone though, does it.
The question shows poor reasoning. Firing a person isn't "punishment". SendGrid didn't punish Adria. And they didn't let her go because PlayHaven fired the other person. It's not some kind of act of retribution. Their reasons were posted at length (highly unusual for a firing).
Perhaps you would like to respond to the post others and I have made instead of acting like you pulled one over on us? I'm not arguing that one firing is more valid than the other, I'm arguing whether or not it's appropriate to project such occurrences in a public light like Adria did.
Why? None of that changes the fact that it was Playhaven that chose to fire the developer and not Adria.
And none of that changes the fact that it's Adria and not Playhaven being blamed for it.
Well, I don't think anyone should have been fired, and surely Adria didn't expect the huge backlash.
In the future, though, there will be more instances where people saying offensive things are captured and publicly vilified, than instances where the person doing the recording is herself abused and cursed out.
mugurumakensei
Member
Well, the dev wouldnt have been fired if she chose to address them directly as opposed to making a fit on twitter.
So do we actually know that these three individuals were there officially representing their company and not just going on their own time? I know plenty of people who attend these things just for fun.
I see one guy has a Playhaven shirt. Is that enough to be considered representing a company?
I see one guy has a Playhaven shirt. Is that enough to be considered representing a company?
Haha, lucky for us you don't decide such things.
I am not sure how this fits in to the larger discussion, since I just joined this topic, but she did push the first stone, her actions lead indirectly towards their firing. Is she didn't throw those guys under a bus they had a job today.
Not sure if this fits but perhaps it's more like she is a snitch. She is the one who says to the teacher that someone in the back of the class is doing something wrong, the teacher has to react...
N
NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
He is sitting next to another guy wearing a playhaven shirt so I assume they are there for work related reasons.
In a professional setting such a conference, if you can be readily identified as being an employee of a company then you are presumed to be "representing" them. On their name badge was the logo of the company at which they were employed.
I'm curious, on a scale of blame from no blame, little blame, moderate blame, lots of blame, and fully blameable, where do you place Adria?
Does Adria's behavior exonerate Playhaven, Anonymous and 4 Chan? You're the one throwing around "if she hadn't posted on twitter none of this would have happened."
Why are you perfectly comfortable with applying this logic to Adria and not at all comfortable applying it to the Developer. The reality is that everyone should be held responsible for their own actions.
Here, the biggest mistakes and overreactions were not made by Adria. They were made by Playhaven.
We have incomplete information re: the Playhaven firing, making it hard to discuss. (We don't know if there were additional issues.)
tfur
Member
It does not matter. It's not hers or your business to tell a person what they can and cannot say. Her only legitimate complaint is that perhaps they were speaking too loudly. A normal (non cunt war, non bubble person), would ask for them to "please be quiet, and perhaps I do not like over hearing this tone of discussion.". After that point, if that failed, she could get a conference usher/assistant to quiet them.
There is nothing wrong with sex jokes. These specific jokes barely even qualify as either. I wont dont appreciate people censoring what thought and words a person is allowed to speak or say in a mostly public forum.
She is not saving the future of programming, and not a developer advocate or evangelist... just faux outrage and Internet flotsam.
I didn't argue that nor did i say it was a sexist demeaning joke. I do concede that i did implicitly say that the joke may have been inappropriate considering a woman was present so If I'm at fault for that you got me there. I did not say however that woman are delicate little flowers that need protection from our harsh words. I told you not to do that because that would be putting words in my mouth.
Under Playhaven and Sendgrind (most blame), but above the Developer (slight/low blame).
Why would a joke be inappropriate simply because a woman is present if it isn't inappropriate even without her present, or if a man is present instead? That's the double standard I'm getting at.
I made the sexist/demeaning point as an example, not to put words into your mouth, i apologize if you thought I was attempting to do so.
Yeah, a legitimate complaint according to tfur's objective criteria for legitimate complaints in public places.
I guess its too much to expect men to behave like human beings and treat people well. Adria is in the right here, sorry y'all. SendGrid shouldn't have fired her and if PyCon cared about women, they wouldn't have made it against the rules to report sexism.
This is why I'm sad all my skills are tied up in the tech industry, its full of the worst men.
Slurpy2k20
Member
I've known women like her, and I can't fucking stand them. They will jump at the opportunity to take ANYTHING, blow it out of proportion, and play the victimhood card by constantly demonizing the individual that irked them, on a rabid quest to destroy their reputation, making that person a much bigger victim than they ever were. It's utterly disgusting, cowardly, and screams of attention-whorism and false victimhood. 99% of the shit posted on the internet is more offensive than this, the guy did not deserve to have his life destroyed because a fucking joke, that at the end of the day did not have a negative impact on anyone.
This never happened. She had every right to report them, she just went about it in the completely wrong way.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
The only overreaction was Adria. I expect companies to fire their employees in these situations to protect themselves from bad PR, and that's exactly why you shouldn't try to shame people on the internet over something stupid like a dongle joke.
Making an example out of some shitty dude isn't the "wrong way", it's fantastic warning sign to people to avoid this shitty dude.
How is the joke sexist toward women? How is she in the right for being an internet vigilante?
Enlighten me.
PyCon strongly encourages reporting of sexist remarks of behavior. The change they made to the rules after this year's con did not change that fact. I can't believe that you've actually read anything regarding this subject if you feel pycon encourages or even tolerates sexism.
Have you ever considered that you're just a massive misogynist?
Report it to whom; other men? Sorry, I could not leave it up to any man in the tech industry to take this kind of thing seriously.
I understand I now see how I'm at fault for thinking that way. I do still feel that they were being way too incessant about it when it may not be comfortable for anyone around especially Adria who perceived the jokes as sexists, to hear. But she should have turned around and told them to knock off also. Playhaven shouldn't have fired the developer because that was the catalyst of this shit storm
Alucrid, every time you say "if she hadn't posted the picture, none of this would have happened," you are suggesting that she is responsible for all of the actions taken by other people in this whole debacle.
Because, why else would you say it?
Sure, it's factually true. Just like saying "if the Developer hadn't made the joke, none of this would have happened" is factually true. But both statements are pretty meaningless and obvious attempts to communicate blame.
If your intent was just to communicate that "complaining privately would have been better," you found a poor way of doing it. Yes, it would have been better if Adria complained privately.
Because, why else would you say it?
Sure, it's factually true. Just like saying "if the Developer hadn't made the joke, none of this would have happened" is factually true. But both statements are pretty meaningless and obvious attempts to communicate blame.
If your intent was just to communicate that "complaining privately would have been better," you found a poor way of doing it. Yes, it would have been better if Adria complained privately.
Except when she did take the time to actually report it and not take pictures of the 'offender' the staff made them leave.
Go take your forking and dongles elsewhere.
Men are incapable of being anything but sexist, how progressive of you.
dragonelite
Member
I also don't see the connection between a lame sexually tinted joke and sexism in this case. I'm fairly new to using git and git hub. And what i know is that Forking someones Repo is copying their source code. As a developer that is quiet a compliment if you ask me you made good open source code and someone else wants to read or use it.
If the guys were like "Hey you there i would Fork your Repo" to a male or female attendee then yes she in her right. Now that is a sexist joke in my book and it depends on the person if it is a insult or a compliment. Or something like "To fork that Repo you need a big dongle" implying to use git you need to be a male developer, that is a sexist joke. Or it could be a big amount of data you want to copy and need a big usb stick(aka a big dongle) we wont know what the context was.
Why man have a hard time working with females if the female acts like Adria. They need to be on constant alert because a lot of developers terms are so easy to interpreted sexually or offensive. I find myself saying stupid things like that without knowing it was sexist or offensive because my brain was busy explaining a solution and then have the rest laugh because of how i ordered the words. If she would have just confronted the males after or during the session and not make a big deal out of it.
This could all have been avoided she would have her job she could pat herself on the back by making a blog post on how she corrected two males without posting names or how she undertook actions, maybe even report how the males took the critic positive or negative.
Knowing she did this she would scare away potential clients or programmers if they saw her name tag. Or just knowing she works at SendGrid and be a pain in the ass to work with.
As a man who works in the tech industry and knowing my coworkers, I don't trust men in the tech industry. This is probably one of the most toxic and misogynistic industries I've EVER worked in.
Also, not trusting the privileged class with something that matters to a minority is p progressive. I'm sorry you misunderstand things!
Shitty dudes DDoSing and shitty dudes firing her.
So all men in the tech industry except you are misogynistic? Why are you the exception?
Basically
Can you point to me where I said this?
threetri333
Banned
I searched through Alucard's posts and he did not mention the bolded statement. Were you confusing him with someone else?
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