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[King Dazzar]

MS allready has a pro.The series X.

Perhaps they'll push the PC more and more as being part of the Xbox family and the Pro equivalent option.

I feel even stronger today that not only is the PS5 Pro coming next holiday but 12-18 months after that Xbox starts the next generation early shooting for at least a 2 year head start on PS6

I think Xbox are the least predictable with regards future hardware. I wondered what they'd do about the Series S. Starting a fresh sooner might be an answer. Though I cant help but think they would want to blur the definition of what is a generation and cater for all consoles moving forward. With a focus on engagement and game pass numbers, I wonder if they care if its PC, mobile, or an existing console, just as long as you're subscribed. It'll be interesting to see what their console sales are like by then. The current trajectory isn't exactly great.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

This isn’t gonna be a cheap console that’s why we expect more than zen 2 I also really doubt zen 4 or even zen 5 will be that much more expensive to use in 2024

You really need to learn to not spam so many posts one after the other. We have something called multi-quote response, learn to use it.

 

[coffinbirth]

Microsoft be lookin' at 2025 like...

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Microsoft be lookin' at 2025 like...

Will be interesting to see how it plays out

Around an 18 TF zen 2 pro then a yearish later a 30+ TF zen 5 Xbox Next

 

[Elog]

Surprised that no one seems to talk about cache. One of the aspects where the most cost effective improvements can be found in comparison to current APUs (PS and Xbox) is cache size and management. This would boost both basic performance as well as RT performance considerably without interfering with compatibility with the base PS5 model.

I am very curious whether the Pro design expands the highest level cache significantly (CPU and GPU) and to what extent they integrate it across the APU design. The exact cost implications are unclear to me but a V-cache like (either straight V-cache or a cache chiplet) solution should be a very effective way of boosting performance.

 

[Three]

They are going to do exactly what they did with X1X countering PS4 Pro. Except they will call it "next-gen" this time. So we can expect the same amount of free shilling from the usual channels selling this as better in every way: True RDNAX, new X feature, new Y feature etc.

But that strategy will also fail like last time.

Pretty much how I see it. This gen MS didn't make a 'next gen' only game for nearly 2-3 years bar FS. The xbox next will be a discless xbox series x pro just marketed as a new generation. With marketing for increased performance/RT on COD, Minecraft, FM (what we was supposed to get), etc. You would get the media channels trying to frame this as "not the same as midgen, that we don't like" but for all intents and purposes it is the same since generations are pretty much dying. Possibly 2-3 years later when PS launch their PS6 you might start to see Xbox Next specific games.

 

[nowifenolife]

I feel even stronger today that not only is the PS5 Pro coming next holiday but 12-18 months after that Xbox starts the next generation early shooting for at least a 2 year head start on PS6

Mmmmm, maybe that's the only way microsoft can get better looking and performing games, to be a generation ahead. Microsoft are so Microshit.

 

[Mobilemofo]

What about anything to with display technologies? So we had PS4 Pro which enabled 4K/HDR10 so you had to buy a new TV. This week, I've only just bought such a TV! I'm loathe to upgrade it again for a long time. I know 8K is on the horizon somewhere but are there other things in the works? Will all games start to use Dolby Vision or something like that?

I wouldn't even worry about 8k. Seriously...there will be the ps7 before were anywhere near 8k gaming, at the very earliest.

 

[StealthGoblin]

People have some pretty wild expectations for specs based on the price bracket. The tech for this was decided and locked down a while ago.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Surprised that no one seems to talk about cache. One of the aspects where the most cost effective improvements can be found in comparison to current APUs (PS and Xbox) is cache size and management. This would boost both basic performance as well as RT performance considerably without interfering with compatibility with the base PS5 model.

I am very curious whether the Pro design expands the highest level cache significantly (CPU and GPU) and to what extent they integrate it across the APU design. The exact cost implications are unclear to me but a V-cache like (either straight V-cache or a cache chiplet) solution should be a very effective way of boosting performance.

I have been screaming Cache for a while now. But I get it, it's one of those things that doesn't have mass appeal, and is harder to understand its value. But I believe its singularly more important than any of the things being talked about right now. And a cache upgrade along with all the other stuff they are going to be upgrading is going to make for a very very good upgrade all around.

People have some pretty wild expectations for specs based on the price bracket. The tech for this was decided and locked down a while ago.

Happens all the time. I am surprised no one has started talking about them using HBM, or increasing RAM size to 24GB...etc. During the speculation stage, there are always those that come along with some crazy fantasies.

Then again, before the PS5/XSX were revealed, people would probably have called me a dreamer for saying they would have an SSD.

 

[PeteBull]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out

Around an 18 TF zen 2 pro then a yearish later a 30+ TF zen 5 Xbox Next

Personally i would love hardware companies to start 1-upping eachother again, ninny's handheld/last gen stationary console aproach is super terrible from my pov when it comes to pushing graphic fidelity.
More competition is always positive thing, coz it makes platform holders do their best

 

[saintjules]

What I'd be looking for (timestamp) HeisenbergFX4

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

What I'd be looking for (timestamp) HeisenbergFX4

Exactly what I am hoping for 60 fps full quality modes and possible 120 performance modes

 

[Physiognomonics]

What I'd be looking for (timestamp) HeisenbergFX4

About the CPU part one they miss that the fidelity mode already runs at +40fps (usually +45fps) on PS5 so there wouldn't even need not being CPU limited by a lot as a CPU upclock could be enough to reach 60fps with the fidelity settings.

Interestingly They tell us that Insomniac are also using ray traced shadows on SM2!

 

[shamoomoo]

Exactly what I am hoping for 60 fps full quality modes and possible 120 performance modes

Lol? If the pro boost to performance is big,then I believe fidelity mode will be performance mode and Insomniac Games might go back and a fidelity+ mode; where everything is maxed out.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

Sony’s Monster! PS5 Pro Massive Spec Update & APU Details​

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony’s Monster! PS5 Pro Massive Spec Update & APU Details​

What does this Demon say are the specs?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

What does this Demon say are the specs?

I wouldn't waste your time, he will ramble for about 20 minutes and never really get to the point of this is exactly it because you know he has like 17 sources that tell him different stuff every week

I can say this, nothing solid yet has leaked outside of what we already knew

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I wouldn't waste your time, he will ramble for about 20 minutes and never really get to the point of this is exactly it because you know he has like 17 sources that tell him different stuff every week

I can say this, nothing solid yet has leaked outside of what we already knew

Crazy we haven’t gotten firm leaks despite the dev kits going out

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Crazy we haven’t gotten firm leaks despite the dev kits going out

Yeah considering people were saying in Discord that Oct ish would be when they thought these leaks would start trickling in

 

[TheRedRiders]

I wouldn't waste your time, he will ramble for about 20 minutes and never really get to the point of this is exactly it because you know he has like 17 sources that tell him different stuff every week

I can say this, nothing solid yet has leaked outside of what we already knew

Bingo. I took the burden of watching the video upon myself.

Almost nothing new except that the PS5 chip may be built on 6nm, the shocking part is how he managed to drag that out into a 17 minute video.

 

[The ninja farmer]

Not sure that sony would user a higher node to build what will probably be a bigger chip than what they have now. That just seems unlikely. Especially from a power and heat perspective

They would go smaller and marry that with increased density and lower power usage (in relation to I think the current about to be used in the ‘slim’ apu, which is about 6nm, or even 5nm)

More a throwing terms about video, again to see what sticks. Then claiming as his leak, if it somehow comes true.

From what I have watched. That seems to be about 90% of his videos content, with about 5% adds and 5% using the word ‘insane’ about random crap

 

[shamoomoo]

Not sure that sony would user a higher node to build what will probably be a bigger chip than what they have now. That just seems unlikely. Especially from a power and heat perspective

They would go smaller and marry that with increased density and lower power usage (in relation to I think the current about to be used in the ‘slim’ apu, which is about 6nm, or even 5nm)

More a throwing terms about video, again to see what sticks. Then claiming as his leak, if it somehow comes true.

From what I have watched. That seems to be about 90% of his videos content, with about 5% adds and 5% using the word ‘insane’ about random crap

I'm not sure if it's the right word but if Sony is being cheap and "cutting corners" then I think it's sensible for an older node as it should be relatively cheap even with slight size increase. Again,the pro is a stopgap, I think the customization should be like the base PS5 and allow efficient use of the hardware with minimal bottlenecks.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Bingo. I took the burden of watching the video upon myself.

Almost nothing new except that the PS5 chip may be built on 6nm, the shocking part is how he managed to drag that out into a 17 minute video.

So 17 minute video to say its built on 6nm and that was the HUGE spec update?

And don't tell me let me guess....

He says something like "a couple of my sources say its 6nm but some of my sources say its 5 or even 4nm"

 

[winjer]

People need to stop giving views to channels like Red Gamming Tech, Moore's Law is Dead, Coreteks and the like.
They just make stuff up, and pretend they have real information. When in reality, they just spam a ton of possibilities in the hope that some of it sticks.

 

[TheRedRiders]

And don't tell me let me guess....

He says something like "a couple of my sources say its 6nm but some of my sources say its 5 or even 4nm"

Almost word for word as well.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Sony’s Monster! PS5 Pro Massive Spec Update & APU Details​

Lol, can't believe this fucking YT Grifter is still going.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Sony’s Monster! PS5 Pro Massive Spec Update & APU Details​

Says huge spec update then goes into nothing about the spec update and just says a million times about the conflicting info he is getting.

 

[Salmon Snake]

Off topic, but I really wonder:

Are those "next gen console spec" youtubers doing any other videos? I imagine that console release months are killing attention they get otherwise. What they post during that time?

 

[Imtjnotu]

Off topic, but I really wonder:

Are those "next gen console spec" youtubers doing any other videos? I imagine that console release months are killing attention they get otherwise. What they post during that time?

Just wait for his PS6 videos next year

 

[The ninja farmer]

So 17 minute video to say its built on 6nm and that was the HUGE spec update?

And don't tell me let me guess....

He says something like "a couple of my sources say its 6nm but some of my sources say its 5 or even 4nm"

And there is the rub. With all the talk of 60cus and possibly more cache it has to be smaller, or it’s going to make the launch ps5 seem like the real baby brother just on cooling alone. Let alone power if there are any custom silicon areas being added to up certain performance levels

So without having sources it’s easy enough to take pot shots at possible sizes.

I do think it’s going to some form of 4nm for this apu. If Sony have the cost under control and allocation from tsmc. That would allow them to scale up towards the original ps5 apu but have the reduced heat and power to not build an air carrier sized console this time

I don’t think 5 would scale as well in relation to what they have starting at 7nm and seeing what 6nm has brought for the ‘slim’

And that’s didn’t even take 17 mins to type . Maybe I needed a couple of ads

 

[TheRedRiders]

Just wait for his PS6 videos next year

Kinda pisses me off, I know for a fact when we're a year or two out from the PS6 launch... channels like RGT are going to be milk the "leak" wagon really hard... it just breeds so much pointless speculation and console war fodder.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

“Is that a lot?” — James T Kirk

 

[Salmon Snake]

Kinda pisses me off, I know for a fact when we're a year or two out from the PS6 launch... channels like RGT are going to be milk the "leak" wagon really hard... it just breeds so much pointless speculation and console war fodder.

ReviewTechUSA, RGT and that Polish guy. Just to name a few.

"According to rumours Sony is making the PS6 and using the AMD blaa blaa blaa"

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Interesting how much more the DF crew is warming up to the PS5 Pro after Alan Wake 2 and Spider Man 2 released. I never understood why they questioned the reason why PS5 Pro should happen, especially given its releasing late 2024.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out

Around an 18 TF zen 2 pro then a yearish later a 30+ TF zen 5 Xbox Next

RIP XSS

XSX will likely get support for a few years as the new “base” console.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Kinda pisses me off, I know for a fact when we're a year or two out from the PS6 launch... channels like RGT are going to be milk the "leak" wagon really hard... it just breeds so much pointless speculation and console war fodder.

That's why I don't fuck with RGT at all. His whole channel is based around bullshit to get views. As soon the ps5 Pro launches, they need the next thing to talk about and it instantly tarnishes the current machines. It puts a lot of people into the mind set that what you have now is outdated and not good enough, I think it can affect people's enjoyment on what they have.

 

[NeonDelta]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out

Around an 18 TF zen 2 pro then a yearish later a 30+ TF zen 5 Xbox Next

I thought the leaks had the next Xbox out in 2028.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out

Around an 18 TF zen 2 pro then a yearish later a 30+ TF zen 5 Xbox Next

Then PS6 a couple of years down the line. So either MS starts going the ugly path of a console every two years or they risk developers working on cross gen stuff still optimised for PS5 / PS5 Pro waiting to see what PS6 brings.

Heck maybe this leads to Sony canning PS5 Pro and releasing PS6 a bit earlier… I do wonder what they will be on next in terms of custom tech… a lot will be faster (iterative… RT in PS6 will be a lot faster and more capable, but it is still in the area of “existing dreams” and the same will be for general processing power and SSD speed and capacity), but what will be next?

I guess AI/ML acceleration makes sense: Sony Corp. has in their best interest to develop their own ML accelerators for many of their products and together with AMD they could co-design a first generation building block they could reuse down the line (they can take advantage of the experience they gathered with SPU’s too).

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Then PS6 a couple of years down the line. So either MS starts going the ugly path of a console every two years or they risk developers working on cross gen stuff still optimised for PS5 / PS5 Pro waiting to see what PS6 brings.

Heck maybe this leads to Sony canning PS5 Pro and releasing PS6 a bit earlier… I do wonder what they will be on next in terms of custom tech… a lot will be faster (iterative… RT in PS6 will be a lot faster and more capable, but it is still in the area of “existing dreams” and the same will be for general processing power and SSD speed and capacity), but what will be next?

I guess AI/ML acceleration makes sense: Sony Corp. has in their best interest to develop their own ML accelerators for many of their products and together with AMD they could co-design a first generation building block they could reuse down the line (they can take advantage of the experience they gathered with SPU’s too).

Sony knows their mid-term future is in hardware. It would be a huge mistake for them not to launch a PS5 Pro.

• Allows them to differentiate themselves more from Microsoft, XS, and targets core gamers who generally speaking lead the conversation in gaming for non-core gamers.
• Allows them to stay more competitive with PC gaming

If Microsoft doesn't put out a pro-Xbox in 2024 and GTA6 launches in 2024, it'll be the end of their hardware business. We're already seeing the death of the XS, but this would kill off any remaining interest in the brand.

If XS sells 40 million units and the PS5 sells 130-150 million units, I don't think Microsoft can put out a new Xbox next generation.

Looking back at the X1 and PS4 60 million to 120 million.

We're in year 3 of the XS and we're already seeing a decline and that decline will be percipitous if there is a PS5 Pro in the equation with no competition.

If you go from selling 84 million units with the 360 to 60 million units with the X1, to 40 million units with the XS, what is the prognosis for the next hardware unit? 20-30 million?

The question Microsoft has to ask is whether there is value in subsidizing the hardware costs for that small number of largely gamepass subscriptions and very limited B2P sales.

It's totally possible that could be the case, but my guess is the next xbox will be largely sold at cost, regardless of its specs and that it might not be a graphical powerhouse. I.e. sell only an XSS model, but at cost.

 

[Panajev2001a]

• Allows them to differentiate themselves more from Microsoft, XS, and targets core gamers who generally speaking lead the conversation in gaming for non-core gamers.
• Allows them to stay more competitive with PC gaming

Former is not really needed.

Latter would be true if they really managed a big performance increase, but we are likely to get something like PS4 Pro v2 with moderate changes most developers will not take advantage of (on top of the fact that we are way past entering a diminishing returns era; greater and greater improvements required to have noticeable gains). More likely answer is that they know people will buy a Premium model and pay for higher margins.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Former is not really needed.

Latter would be true if they really managed a big performance increase, but we are likely to get something like PS4 Pro v2 with moderate changes most developers will not take advantage of (on top of the fact that we are way past entering a diminishing returns era; greater and greater improvements required to have noticeable gains). More likely answer is that they know people will buy a Premium model and pay for higher margins.

Sony has been dropping serious money on exclusive content. I'm confident these deals are going away. So Sony will look at other ways to differentiate. One could say that the money on exclusive content hasn't really paid off, at least not as much as expected.

It doesn't have to compete with top-end video cards in order to pull some away from PC. All they need to do is have a machine that is less of a concession spec-wise and that will do. As you said, people will pay higher margins on a premium model. It'll also flood the market with used PS5s in which case you should see significant software sales growth even with limited new hardware sales. It's a stealth price drop.

 

[THE DUCK]

I think ms should just take off the gloves. Build a series Z with 40+ tf, 32gb ram, 4tb ssd, elite controller, at $499. They will lose a crap ton per console, but they might just win next gen.......time spend the billions a different way! What's a one time 20 billion loss anyhow.......

This in turn will drive prices down on sony hardware, it's a win win for consumers!

 

[jroc74]

RIP XSS

XSX will likely get support for a few years as the new “base” console.

This is just a reminder that MS really fucked themselves by making the Series S.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I think ms should just take off the gloves. Build a series Z with 40+ tf, 32gb ram, 4tb ssd, elite controller, at $499. They will lose a crap ton per console, but they might just win next gen.......time spend the billions a different way! What's a one time 20 billion loss anyhow.......

This in turn will drive prices down on sony hardware, it's a win win for consumers!

I know that you are joking, but I would love that. Make a monster and there will be fans to buy it. Just not enough to matter sadly.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I thought the leaks had the next Xbox out in 2028.

Those court docs were a few years old as far as the plans go and I have a pretty good reason to believe we see the new (not redesigned) Xbox long before 2028