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[DrLazy]

You can purchase upgrades for your suits that allow for rapid fire, ya know. It doesn't sound like you have played it very much.

Actually, I purchased one of these upgrades. It made the gun go a little faster, but not as fast as hitting the button manually. Wasted my time. What really sucks is having to play tedious trial missions over and over to get upgrades.

PN03 is just like an old-school shooter, except that it's poorly designed with tank-like controls that are compensated for with auto-aim

This very board made me think I'd like the game because I love old school shooters like Ikaruga. Now that game is a fun challenge.

I didn't mind the crap story, or unintuitive controls, or repetitive level and enemy design. What did me in after a while was that the game is just frustrating. This is coming from a guy who beat F-Zero and is stuck on one of the last bonus levels in Monkeyball 2 challenge mode.

Don't let GAF fool you! Believe the reviews!

 

[Musashi Wins!]

This very board made me think I'd like the game because I love old school shooters like Ikaruga. Now that game is a fun challenge.

I didn't mind the crap story, or unintuitive controls, or repetitive level and enemy design. What did me in after a while was that the game is just frustrating. This is coming from a guy who beat F-Zero and is stuck on one of the last bonus levels in Monkeyball 2 challenge mode.

Don't let GAF fool you! Believe the reviews!

I'm with you. Except I was fooled enough to buy it once upon a time (granted for a bargain bin prince). This game is extremely mediocre and the most deceptive praise it gets is talk about how it's just like "old school shooters". Strangely, old style shooters when their good still get good review scores. This game bites.

 

[Dice]

But I kind of like the "play it till you like it" approach. Sure it may end up overlooking a lot of flaws, but once you have them overlooked or compensated by pure skill, what's the difference? It's the old-school approach to gaming and it is very rewarding, leading to games you remember quite fondly with special moments of awesomeness.

I mean, when Street Fighter 2 came out everyone had a horrible time trying to learn button combinations. It was for the most part entirely new and not intuitive at all for most, now the entire genre is built off those control concepts. Then Megaman games also kinda sucked until you put a lot of time in and worked everything out, and we both know it was more design issues than real challenge (Ikaruga)

Gunvalkyrie and Shinobi also have these sort of issues, but it's just a different approach to playing games. You may not even really like it until you've upgraded and are really good and stuff, but once you have mastered it's not just enjoyable, it's really enjoyable. Most Capcom games work like this, but most people aren't patient enough with them.

 

[dorikyasu]

I tried it and absolutely hated it when it first came out. Picked it up few months ago for $10 (I'm sucker for cheap games), and still didn't like it...
But one day, it just clicked. All of a sudden everything felt right and I couldn't stop playing it. PN03 will definitely stay in my GC collection forever now.

 

[DrLazy]

But I kind of like the "play it till you like it" approach.

That is a very well written way of saying "I like crappy games."

 

[COCKLES]

 

[The Shadow]

That is a very well written way of saying "I like crappy games."

Indeed. I'm surprised he didn't just say, "Play it for 60 at least, that's when it gets fun."

 

[Dice]

Dude, the rest of my post explained the comment. A lot of games are really good, you just aren't used to them yet. A lot of "flaws" are really only flaws in accessibility, but if you adjust then you find the game is really good..

 

[The Shadow]

Dude, the rest of my post explained the comment. A lot of games are really good, you just aren't used to them yet. A lot of "flaws" are really only flaws in accessibility, but if you adjust then you find the game is really good..

Alright, I'll buy the "accessibility" argument, but at what point can you say it's not "accessibility" and that the game just stinks? Is there a time limit? That's what the 60 hour comment came from. How long do you have to play a game before you can say that you've had enough?

I've read a few reviews after I had tried it and I tend to agree with what they say. Particularly this commend from IGN:

But for one reason or another Capcom has instead created a title with a play style that requires twitch-fast movement and reaction and a control setup that delivers just the opposite.

That's pretty much my complaint right there. You can almost see how the game should be played, but you can't play it that way because of the stiffness of the controls.

 

[Dice]

Or maybe you're just bad at it. As was noted earlier in the thread I haven't played PN03, these are just concepts I've taken from other games that may apply to it. Your complaints and the positive comments from others sound especially similar to what people said about Gunvalkyrie. It takes quite a bit of learning and you think the controls are horrible, but then it clicks and it rocks.

And it's hard to say, I think it's different for every game. Sometimes you need to adjust to controls, sometimes you need to master the proper use of a certain weapon or move, other times you have to learn to utilize the level design, etc. but then like you said sometimes the game just sucks. Unfortunately I can't give you a rule of thumb that applies to every game because there is no such thing, and I can't give you a specific ruling about PN03 because I haven't played it.

 

[The Shadow]

Or maybe you're just bad at it. As was noted earlier in the thread I haven't played PN03, these are just concepts I've taken from other games that may apply to it. Your complaints and the positive comments from others sound especially similar to what people said about Gunvalkyrie. It takes quite a bit of learning and you think the controls are horrible, but then it clicks and it rocks.

And it's hard to say, I think it's different for every game. Sometimes you need to adjust to controls, sometimes you need to master the proper use of a certain weapon or move, other times you have to learn to utilize the level design, etc. but then like you said sometimes the game just sucks. Unfortunately I can't give you a rule of thumb that applies to every game because there is no such thing, and I can't give you a specific ruling about PN03 because I haven't played it.

Actually I'd say that on foot, it does control a lot like Gunvalkyrie. THAT'S WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT GUNVALKYRIE. That's primarily why people say you're not playing it right if you're running around on the ground. If you're not playing it like the demo movie, which shows the player largely floating and boosting around in the air, then you're likely playing it from the ground.

If anything, PN03 shows me exactly why people bitch and moan about Gunvalkyrie, almost to the point where I'm sympathetic. If Gunvalkyrie locked me on the ground with stiff controls, I'd think the game sucked too. However, Gunvalkyrie luckily doesn't force you to play like that. You can fly and boost around to get around that shortcoming. PN03 doesn't give you that option. You're stuck with shitty tank controls in a game that seems to be designed where twitch reflexes are needed.

People who bitch about Gunvalkyrie who are playing it from the ground, would no doubt hate PN03 too.

Does PN03 allow you to do that? Maybe there's another way to play it that lets you bypass the shitty on-foot controls. Hell, I'm willing to give it another shot if I missed it. Oh wait, you wouldn't know. You've never played it.

 

[Hero]

The controls are just fine when you learn what you need to do in order to dodge or evade.

Just because you're bad with timing or whatnot doesn't mean PN03 has bad controls. It just means you suck.

 

[The Shadow]

The controls are just fine when you learn what you need to do in order to dodge or evade.

Just because you're bad with timing or whatnot doesn't mean PN03 has bad controls. It just means you suck.

Naw. I'm more inclined to believe PN03 sucks.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Shake shake shake,
Shake shake shake,
Shake your booty!
Shake your bootaaaay!

 

[Prospero]

The controls are just fine when you learn what you need to do in order to dodge or evade.

Just because you're bad with timing or whatnot doesn't mean PN03 has bad controls. It just means you suck.

Translation: "The controls are just fine once you learn to work around the controls, which are some of the worst to be seen in any game this gen."

 

[inpHilltr8r]

PN03 is mindless fun, Gunvalkyrie was sadistic. Making you move the stick and press it down at the same time was R E T A R D E D. Has any other game since used that mechanic? Wonder why?

 

[The Shadow]

Translation: "The controls are just fine once you learn to work around the controls, which are some of the worst to be seen in any game this gen."

Yup.

I've already said I'd be diplomatic about it. I'll give PN03 a second shot as soon as someone can explain some way of playing without relying on the tank controls.

 

[radios shipping overview]

PN03's controls are fine, period. Dodging, jumping, rolling, and quick-turning all work the way they need to work. Yes, turning is slow, but with the way the game is designed, if you're playing it properly, you will rarely ever use the slow turn while in the middle of a firefight. The forward/backward movement and slow turns are there to get you where you need to go. You usually stop using them once you've encountered a group of enemies and begin killing them off. Anytime you're directly in an enemy's line of fire, you should be using the dodge, double-dodge, quick turn, and jump to avoid their fire and dispatch them as quickly as possible.

I suppose a decent comparison would be with something like Time Crisis: the "tank controls" would be used only during the cinematic interludes, and the rest of the time you're dodging and spinning and avoiding fire. Using the slow turn in the middle of a combo is foolish, anyway: you want to get all of the enemies killed off as quickly as you can and finish the room with a no-damage bonus.

I recommend using the face buttons for dodging. Analog triggers really aren't up to the task - especially with that stupid click at the end of their throw.

PN03 does bear comparison to Gunvalkyrie in that both have unique control schemes that constitute the bulk of each game's identity. If you don't like boosting around in the air in GV, then you don't just hate the controls; you hate the game. The same goes for PN03: if you don't like using the game's specific control scheme to use acrobatics and speed and memorization to go for ever-longer chains, then you don't like the game. Giving PN03 Max Payne's controls would cause the game to cease to be PN03.

 

[The Shadow]

I recommend using the face buttons for dodging. Analog triggers really aren't up to the task - especially with that stupid click at the end of their throw.

PN03 does bear comparison to Gunvalkyrie in that both have unique control schemes that constitute the bulk of each game's identity. If you don't like boosting around in the air in GV, then you don't just hate the controls; you hate the game. The same goes for PN03: if you don't like using the game's specific control scheme to use acrobatics and speed and memorization to go for ever-longer chains, then you don't like the game. Giving PN03 Max Payne's controls would cause the game to cease to be PN03.

Next time I get a chance to play PN03, I'll certainly try that. Admittingly, I didn't even think of swapping the controls. The triggers are a bit mushy and not really useful in something that requires quick taps.

It's refreshing when you actually get an answer to a qestion on this forum instead of a bonehead reply. Thanks.

 

[Dice]

So as I understand it, the play style (in control, not strategy) is actually probably similar to combat in Tomb Raider? If so, I got a handle on that game rather quickly and actually like the controls. Also as I understand it, there are special evasion moves? Trust me, if they are there, Capcom wants you to use them. You can't beat DMC on the harder modes without learning the advanced moves Dante has, and the same goes for any other Capcom game. If they give it to you, it's essential, every last move.

The more I hear the more I think people just aren't giving it a good chance, though Shadow obviously you are willing to try. Hopefully I'll be able to get the game soon, I'm ery curious about it.

 

[Wario64]

The controls are fine the way it is. The game isn't designed to let you 'run and gun' through the rooms. I think that's the main problem that most people have with the game. The game doesn't play like 90% of third person action games out there and assume the controls suck ass because the game doesn't control the way they want it to control. If you get into the game and understand the controls, you'll see why you can't run and gun through the rooms. It's all about dodging and linking combos, as someone said above. The whole game is designed with those controls in mind, so the controls don't really detract from the experience unless you make it a issue

 

[Solid]

How long is the game?

 

[Hero]

PN03's controls are fine, period. Dodging, jumping, rolling, and quick-turning all work the way they need to work. Yes, turning is slow, but with the way the game is designed, if you're playing it properly, you will rarely ever use the slow turn while in the middle of a firefight. The forward/backward movement and slow turns are there to get you where you need to go. You usually stop using them once you've encountered a group of enemies and begin killing them off. Anytime you're directly in an enemy's line of fire, you should be using the dodge, double-dodge, quick turn, and jump to avoid their fire and dispatch them as quickly as possible.

I suppose a decent comparison would be with something like Time Crisis: the "tank controls" would be used only during the cinematic interludes, and the rest of the time you're dodging and spinning and avoiding fire. Using the slow turn in the middle of a combo is foolish, anyway: you want to get all of the enemies killed off as quickly as you can and finish the room with a no-damage bonus.

I recommend using the face buttons for dodging. Analog triggers really aren't up to the task - especially with that stupid click at the end of their throw.

PN03 does bear comparison to Gunvalkyrie in that both have unique control schemes that constitute the bulk of each game's identity. If you don't like boosting around in the air in GV, then you don't just hate the controls; you hate the game. The same goes for PN03: if you don't like using the game's specific control scheme to use acrobatics and speed and memorization to go for ever-longer chains, then you don't like the game. Giving PN03 Max Payne's controls would cause the game to cease to be PN03.

The controls are fine the way it is. The game isn't designed to let you 'run and gun' through the rooms. I think that's the main problem that most people have with the game. The game doesn't play like 90% of third person action games out there and assume the controls suck ass because the game doesn't control the way they want it to control. If you get into the game and understand the controls, you'll see why you can't run and gun through the rooms. It's all about dodging and linking combos, as someone said above. The whole game is designed with those controls in mind, so the controls don't really detract from the experience unless you make it a issue

These gentlemen know what they're talking about.

Seriously, the controls aren't 'fluid' because if they were, the game wouldn't be challenging or rewarding at all. I almost NEVER use the slow turns. Only the 180.

 

[Kudie]

How long is the game?

The story mode (without playing the trial missions) is quite short. There are 11 missions in all, which can take up to 15 minutes tops. While playing the game in Easy mode yesterday, I beat the game in my second sitting; about 2 hours and 30 minutes. I haven't tried the other difficulties which may take a little longer.

Regarding the controls, I personally found them to be rather comfortable and fluid. All this complaint about not being able to shoot and dodge at the same time is incorrect, IMO. IMO, P.N 03 is about defense and about offense; not just all offense. Taking this into account, the controls are actually good, as the so-called "tank-controls" allow the player to link together defensive moves with offensive moves, rather than just being able to shoot at will. I actually find the defense and dodging aspects of the gameplay to be a little more fun than the shooting aspects.

 

[Kudie]

However, P.N. 03's shortcomings IMO are the too-few enemy types and the all-to-often mentioned level designs, which look similar to one another. Also, the story is a little too sparse and weak.

I really hope that Capcom eventually decides to make a sequel to rectify these issues.

 

[DrLazy]

Sure the controls work, but they're not perfect. Meanwhile it's repetive as shit. How many times can you play the same enemy in similar situations? Boring and frustrating because you die a lot unless you've upgraded your suit which requires a bunch of crappy trial missions. Not fun.

 

[Jumpman]

DrLazy]Actually, I purchased one of these upgrades. It made the gun go a little faster, but not as fast as hitting the button manually. Wasted my time. What really sucks is having to play tedious trial missions over and over to get upgrades.

It's true that the automatic upgrade is useless until you fully enhance one of the best suits with it. Once you do however, it would take alot of energy to manually be faster than using auto-fire on a consistent basis.

This very board made me think I'd like the game because I love old school shooters like Ikaruga. Now that game is a fun challenge.

I didn't mind the crap story, or unintuitive controls, or repetitive level and enemy design. What did me in after a while was that the game is just frustrating. This is coming from a guy who beat F-Zero and is stuck on one of the last bonus levels in Monkeyball 2 challenge mode.

Don't let GAF fool you! Believe the reviews!

The truth is, is that P.N.03 is not a game that most people will enjoy. It doesn't control like the games you are used to. It's level design and gameplay can be repetitive. It really isn't built for mainstream appeal. Despite this, there is a group of gamers who will find alot to like about this game. If anyone has an interest in this game, by all means check it out, just don't expect it to play like anything that you are used to. If you can find it for a low price, it is well worth your time.

 

[BuddyC]

Back when PN03 was announced, I was intrigued.

When impressions started to come in, I declared it to be a $10 title, that is, one I would only pay $10 for.

Earlier this year, Best Buy dropped it to $9.99.

I was all over that. What a great game.

So great, in fact, that I went back and bought 5 other copies, distributing them amongst GAF.

Definately worth $10.

 

[Kumiko Nikaido]

It's funny how P.N. 03 was the last title out of the GC Capcom 5 titles announced..........yet it was the first one released. Although a good game, P.N. 03 definitely needed more development time.

 

[Dice]

Haha, I just read this in the gamespot review...

Once in a while, you might accidentally hit the Z button instead of the right shoulder button, causing Vanessa to turn her back on the enemy rather than dodge its lasers.

How could you hit the Z button instead of the R? He either doesn't play cube enough or he's just plain bad.

I need to find a nice $10 copy of this game, maybe after I check Circut City sunday if they don't have it. There are some on ebay but that also has $5 shipping, I know I could probably find it in a store for $10.