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Pokémon Go creator Niantic accused of ‘systemic sexual bias’ in lawsuit

Spyxos

Gold Member
jbareham_160711_1134_0051_02.0.jpg


A former Niantic employee filed a lawsuit against the AR gaming company on Friday, alleging that it devalued the work of female employees and women of color, denied equal pay to women employees and women of color. The lawsuit, which is seeking class-action status, accuses Niantic of creating a “boys club.” The employee was laid off as part of last week’s job cuts at the company, which affected about 230 staffers.

The employee, who is an anonymous Jane Doe but is described in the complaint as an Asian female, started work at Niantic in February 2020 with a salary of $70,000, the complaint says. Later that year, she was promoted and received a raise to about $84,000, but in “approximately” 2021, she learned that Niantic was paying a male colleague more money even though she had a higher job title and more responsibilities than he did.

In 2022, he was allegedly paid $127,000 per year, but she was paid $105,000 per year despite being one job level higher. In or around spring 2023, she received a raise to $115,000 per year, still below her male colleague.

Around that same time, the employee also saw that Niantic posted the pay range for her job title and level — as of 2023, California employers with more than 15 staffers have to share pay ranges in job listings because of a pay transparency law — and saw that she was being paid more than $10,000 less than the bottom end of that range.

The employee discussed her concerns with other female staffers, and sexism and equal pay were brought up in the company’s employee resources group for women, Wolfpack.

But when the employee brought her concerns to Niantic’s Diversity Equity and Inclusion Director and Principal People Partner, they “made clear” that “they and male upper management at Niantic were hostile to her complaints or voiced concerns about sexism or sexual bias in the workplace,” the complaint says.

The executives in the meeting also allegedly said her job evaluations were affected by her discussing workplace issues with her colleagues and said that she was paid below the range because she had raised concerns with her colleagues. According to the complaint, the employee then “immediately unsubscribed” from the Wolfpack group “in fear that her association with Wolfpack would disadvantage Wolfpack employees or her.”

 

mcjmetroid

Member
Is it not possible that her male colleague was doing the job longer than her and earning yearly increments?

Ya she was only at the company for a year and promoted the year after? Unless that guy started with her..... I don't get this he was most likely there longer.

She was also probably laid off because she's like super new. Only 3 years there.
 
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Sleepwalker

Member
The game is inherently sexist because men on average are able to walk faster and for a more extended period of time than a woman, hence giving them an unfair advantage in collecting and raising Pokemon. It also extremely discriminates disabled and fat people.

wheres my check kotaku/verge [/spoiler]
 

Reaseru

Member
"A former Niantic employee filed a lawsuit against the AR gaming company on Friday, alleging that it devalued the work of female employees and women of color, denied equal pay to women employees and women of color."

Why are they separating women of color from the rest of the female coworkers in this article? Are they not the same, or the Verge is implying that women of color are not the same as the rest of the female working force?
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
"A former Niantic employee filed a lawsuit against the AR gaming company on Friday, alleging that it devalued the work of female employees and women of color, denied equal pay to women employees and women of color."

Why are they separating women of color from the rest of the female coworkers in this article? Are they not the same, or the Verge is implying that women of color are not the same as the rest of the female working force?
Collectivism and bigotry.
 

tmlDan

Member
Were they working in the same division/role or was he in a specialist role?

I get paid more than people who technically have higher titles than me because I have a specialist role.

Those things do matter, as does experience. Higher level roles don't always mean you get more, sometimes a good artist/programmer is worth more than a person who just manages people.
 
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Bitch, the whole of humanity can't and have never even made that much in their lifetime, let alone a year! I don't even make that much!

Western women need to get out of their solipsistic bubble and go to a third world country where they're paid only DOLLARS in a month!

🖕🖕🖕🖕
This is Niantic fault and im 1000% with her

They should hire only women, so they can pay 70% less then Men workforce compared to other companys, so Niantic can save tons of money, they really are beyond stupid

Why a company should hire a man? if a man is 30% more expensive from making the same job? Dont have a financial sense
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Just negotiate a bigger salary. If you're that good, you'll get it.

I already had a hunch men are more aggressive at salary talk. Well look at that, google articles support it.

Do a google search and skim the articles. Simple, if you want more $$$ ask for it. The best time to get a pay boost is when you're offered the job. Unless you ask for a crazy amount beyond the starting offer, no company is going to toss you in the garbage and pick someone else. At worst, they cant or wont budge because they are tapped out. But there is always wiggle room when the offer is there to juice up the salary an extra $10,000 or $20,000. Of course you got to know what kind of job it is and not ask for something outrageously out of scope. If the job offer is $70,000, ask for $85,000. You'll probably settle somewhere at $75,000-80,000. Better than taking $70,000 flat.

 

Kamina

Golden Boy
I sure hope that i earn more than my female (and male) colleagues that have the same job, as i am already with the company for 9 years and they have between 3 and 1 only.
Maybe it is a similar situation here?
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
"A former Niantic employee filed a lawsuit against the AR gaming company on Friday, alleging that it devalued the work of female employees and women of color, denied equal pay to women employees and women of color."

Why are they separating women of color from the rest of the female coworkers in this article? Are they not the same, or the Verge is implying that women of color are not the same as the rest of the female working force?

To gain extra attention and outrage.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I sure hope that i earn more than my female (and male) colleagues that have the same job, as i am already with the company for 9 years and they have between 3 and 1 only.
Maybe it is a similar situation here?
Exactly.

Tenure will always be a big impact on wages. But sometimes a newbie gets paid more than a company vet because the company was willing to pay good money to attract an outsider. That's the way to get pay boosts. Join other companies. Once you're at a company too long, all you get are nominal annual increases (if it's the same job). So the only way to get a boost is either a promotion, or you wheel and deal for a pay boost for the same job youre doing.

At my current company, I get paid well. I've been here 10 years. But when I got hired in the finance department, my salary was higher than half the senior account managers. They'd ultimately get paid more since they have a bigger bonus and car allowance. But in terms of pure salary I blew past half of them even though my job rank is lower. Dont blame me sales guys. They offered a solid salary and I asked for more. And I got it.

And you know who would blow past both of us? A brand new senior account manager they recruited from a competing company. These people would sometimes get paid even more than the sales team leaders already here, and they had no people to manage. lol.

All comes down to how much a company wants you and how much someone wants to sit behind closed doors and wheel and deal for a pay bump. Every company will be happy to pay you +2% per year. But if you want +5% or +10% with no strings attached, you better be ready to talk to the boss.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
The employee, who is an anonymous Jane Doe but is described in the complaint as an Asian female, started work at Niantic in February 2020 with a salary of $70,000, the complaint says. Later that year, she was promoted and received a raise to about $84,000, but in “approximately” 2021, she learned that Niantic was paying a male colleague more money even though she had a higher job title and more responsibilities than he did.

In 2022, he was allegedly paid $127,000 per year, but she was paid $105,000 per year despite being one job level higher. In or around spring 2023, she received a raise to $115,000 per year, still below her male colleague.

From $70k/year to $115k/year in three years. Much systemic discrimination.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
From 70k/year to $127k/year in three years. Much systemic discrimination.
What the nitwit doesn't realize is every big company sorts out their jobs into ranks and pay bands.

Just because someone is ranked higher doesn't mean they automatically make more money than every person ranked lower. And vice versa. Pay bands overlap. And when you're talking about jobs paying around $100,000-120,000-ish, the pay band for that job is likely around +/- $20,000 pending where that person currently is in the band.

The woman thinks that job pay is very linear in that a higher ranked person always makes more than a lower ranked person. Dumbass.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
If you wanna boost you salary you have to change jobs every 2-3 years. It makes since newcomers can get more since the job market is being competitive, while you're still with them. Most companies won't drastically raise your salary just because.
 

Kilau

Member
Job titles are just a social construct, she shouldn't be so hung on them.

Just negotiate a bigger salary. If you're that good, you'll get it.

I already had a hunch men are more aggressive at salary talk. Well look at that, google articles support it.

Do a google search and skim the articles. Simple, if you want more $$$ ask for it. The best time to get a pay boost is when you're offered the job. Unless you ask for a crazy amount beyond the starting offer, no company is going to toss you in the garbage and pick someone else. At worst, they cant or wont budge because they are tapped out. But there is always wiggle room when the offer is there to juice up the salary an extra $10,000 or $20,000. Of course you got to know what kind of job it is and not ask for something outrageously out of scope. If the job offer is $70,000, ask for $85,000. You'll probably settle somewhere at $75,000-80,000. Better than taking $70,000 flat.


Identify as a man, boom instant pay raise.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Man, the US work market is really a giant fucking shithole.
I think you should also do it for yourself, regardless. You'll hopefully get to learn, meet fresh people, expend your perspective.

Staying at the same place will prob stagnant you, and you'll become complacent less edgy.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Job titles are just a social construct, she shouldn't be so hung on them.



Identify as a man, boom instant pay raise.
No doubt.

At my company years back a bunch of sales people were moaning and complaining they want job title changes so they'd sound more important. Their reasoning was "if I'm called a key account manager, the buyers will treat me like shit. But if I'm called a national account manager or senior account manager, they'll take me more seriously".

The rest of the departments who got wind of this were like: WTF? What a bunch of babies.

The sales person who was the most consistent performer who did a great job was like 55 years old and didnt give a shit at all. He probably cared more about hiking trails with his wife. All the crybabies were the younger sales reps.
 

tkscz

Member
Yeah quickly lost me when she went from 70k to 115k in three years, and yet never once said what the guy's actual position was or how long he was with the company or if he did any other jobs that could get him that extra pay. Raises and bonuses tend to be incentive based.

For example, I'm a SysAdmin at my company and make more than several managers whose position would be considered above mine by some. However some of them have been there for a shorter period of time so even based on that I make more.

Also sound like the other women aren't having the same issue. They were quick to abandon her, also don't say they agreed with her, just that she spoke with them.

"A former Niantic employee filed a lawsuit against the AR gaming company on Friday, alleging that it devalued the work of female employees and women of color, denied equal pay to women employees and women of color."

Why are they separating women of color from the rest of the female coworkers in this article? Are they not the same, or the Verge is implying that women of color are not the same as the rest of the female working force?

Most likely what I said before, the other women abandoned her and probably make more than she does too and most of them are white women. But odds are that most of the women who work at Niantic are white and probably have been there longer than three years and have better paying positions regardless of titles. So she has to make herself look like an extra victim by not being a white woman. Bonus brownies if she said she was also LGBTQ+
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Yeah quickly lost me when she went from 70k to 115k in three years, and yet never once said what the guy's actual position was or how long he was with the company or if he did any other jobs that could get him that extra pay. Raises and bonuses tend to be incentive based.

For example, I'm a SysAdmin at my company and make more than several managers whose position would be considered above mine by some. However some of them have been there for a shorter period of time so even based on that I make more.

Also sound like the other women aren't having the same issue. They were quick to abandon her, also don't say they agreed with her, just that she spoke with them.
Yup.

Even if by pure luck two people had the same job and started on the same day, guess what? After a few years both will make different money because one of them will surely do better on annual performance meetings. That person will get +5% and the laggard might get +2.3%.

That's why when it comes to any kind of pay dispute, everyone should always look at the full context of the situation. The complainer will always promote and very black and white picture like... I get paid less because he's a man. I get paid less even though I have been here longer.

There's way more important factors determining pay.

As I said above, all it takes is a company really wanting to hire someone and offers him/her+30% more to steal them away from another company and that one factor alone can destroy any other context why they got paid so much more than similar kinds of employees at the office.

Dont worry what other people have. Worry about yourself. People care way too much what other people have.
 
Here comes all the people that think their emotional reactions to a situation should dictate how it will play out legally!

If there’s actual wage discrimination that’s a serious legal issue. But none of us here know the underlying facts. So acting like no one cares is just letting your general reaction to a discrimination suit color your entire perspective of a facts and circumstances based issue. I’d say the opposite in reverse too but seems like everyone here just wants to mock the plaintiff.
 
Here comes all the people that think their emotional reactions to a situation should dictate how it will play out legally!

If there’s actual wage discrimination that’s a serious legal issue. But none of us here know the underlying facts. So acting like no one cares is just letting your general reaction to a discrimination suit color your entire perspective of a facts and circumstances based issue. I’d say the opposite in reverse too but seems like everyone here just wants to mock the plaintiff.
here comes the snowflake defender post

70k to 115k in 3 years sure is wage discrimination, but not for her.

I wish I'd get that kind of raise.
 
Here comes all the people that think their emotional reactions to a situation should dictate how it will play out legally!

If there’s actual wage discrimination that’s a serious legal issue. But none of us here know the underlying facts. So acting like no one cares is just letting your general reaction to a discrimination suit color your entire perspective of a facts and circumstances based issue. I’d say the opposite in reverse too but seems like everyone here just wants to mock the plaintiff.
I put it easy to you, Because many have actual Jobs, and see this shit all the time

the only REAL way to to prove her claim is If there’s was a Raise or a Bonus in the company, and she was the only one Who get stagnant, and in 3 years she almost double her pay, so that claim is imposible

Also any company want to AVOID paying their employees, the less the better, thats why the claim women make 70% less then men is bullshit

If thats true, man would never find a job compared to women

She is a fired entilted employee, Who try to use a minority card in a pointless lawsuit
 
here comes the snowflake defender post

70k to 115k in 3 years sure is wage discrimination, but not for her.

I wish I'd get that kind of raise.
I’m not a snowflake defender. I’m an attorney (though not a labor attorney) who gets increasingly frustrated that people believe their emotional reactions to legal filings mean they are objectively correct about what the outcome should be. For instance, just because you get a nice raise doesn’t mean there isn’t wage discrimination as a legal matter. The fact you cited means very, very little.

Like I said: I’d say the same thing if people were taking the facts in the plaintiff‘s filing as objective truth. But that’s not happening here because GAF in the aggregate has a strong bias against discrimination accusations and lawsuits.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I put it easy to you, Because many have actual Jobs, and see this shit all the time

the only REAL way to to prove her claim is If there’s was a Raise or a Bonus in the company, and she was the only one Who get stagnant, and in 3 years she almost double her pay, so that claim is imposible

Also any company want to AVOID paying their employees, the less the better, thats why the claim women make 70% less then men is bullshit

If thats true, man would never find a job compared to women

She is a fired entilted employee, Who try to use a minority card in a pointless lawsuit
Yup.

I've brought up on GAF in the past the same point. But not gender specific, but wages in general. If companies are so cheap and untrusting, why are people (like her) even making over $100,000 to begin with? Just start rock bottom at minimum wage offers and I'm sure you'll get takers. If a company is struggling to fill roles, then inch up the offers until you're fully staffed.

I'd bet just about any company could fully staff themselves without ever paying more than $100,000.

But they dont because they want talent. If you got skills and a good attitude, you'll get good offers. But on top of that people need to be proactive and ask for more like an adult. You dont sit back and coast expecting everyone in life to give you their 100% best offer in the first 30 seconds. That's the entitled crybaby perspective expecting the best on a silver platter. It doesn't matter if it's job hunting, buying a car or bargaining with a peddler at a flea market. You want more value. Well prove it and they will bend. If you cant prove it or dont want to talk, then fuck off and get the wages or price you agreed to.

Life isn't that difficult folks.
 
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tkscz

Member
Yup.

Even if by pure luck two people had the same job and started on the same day, guess what? After a few years both will make different money because one of them will surely do better on annual performance meetings. That person will get +5% and the laggard might get +2.3%.

That's why when it comes to any kind of pay dispute, everyone should always look at the full context of the situation. The complainer will always promote and very black and white picture like... I get paid less because he's a man. I get paid less even though I have been here longer.

There's way more important factors determining pay.

As I said above, all it takes is a company really wanting to hire someone and offers him/her+30% more to steal them away from another company and that one factor alone can destroy any other context why they got paid so much more than similar kinds of employees at the office.

Dont worry what other people have. Worry about yourself. People care way too much what other people have.

Skimming through the lawsuit it does say the position he had and that she was at the company longer:

In approximately 2021, Plaintiff learned that Niantic had been paying her male colleague, who had recently entered the company as an apprentice, more than it had been paying her. This was despite that Plaintiff had more experience, more tenure as an employee, more responsibilities, and had a higher job title than he.

However, it makes no mention to his previous job or previous experience and assumes to know it. As you said before, companies will buy out a person from another company just to have that person on their team. More so, because there is no mention of his previous work, we don't know if he was already making that or more where he was working before. No mention of that. Not only that, but going through it, in the time she went from 85K to 115K, the guy never got a raise at all, which tells me he was making 127k at his previous job and wouldn't take this job if he didn't get the same. Negotiation.

It continues on with things like this

During her approximately three and a half years as a user experience designer at Niantic, Plaintiff consistently received positive feedback from her peers about her quality of work, work ethic, and her skills as a team player. Plaintiff’s peers consistently recognized her as an employee who went above and beyond her duties. But Niantic continued to pay Plaintiff less than her male colleagues – including those with lower job titles and fewer responsibilities

Alright then, go look for another job, find an interview where you get far into it and they are willing to pay more, take that to your bosses and tell them if they don't pay you more with everything you've done, you're out the door. If they still don't care, fuck'em, you found a better job anyway. My wife has done this and got her company to double her salary for it.

It also says things like
Female employees see Niantic as a Boys Club where men mentor and boost the careers of other men while leaving women and women of color behind
But form clubs of their own without making mention that they even tried to be "mentored" by the men. In fact reading through it sounds like they segregate themselves UNTIL someone sends them an invitation.

There are only 20 women in the lawsuit, but 800 employees in the entire company. I highly doubt they are doing this "for the women of the company". Also may explain why they feel the need to separate women and women of color.

That being said, I wouldn't doubt their wolfpack were the only ones who participated in the survey they sent to the higher ups with the complaints as the lawsuit doesn't say a majority of female employees agreed with the statement. Just that they signed a survey among women.
 
I’m not a snowflake defender. I’m an attorney (though not a labor attorney) who gets increasingly frustrated that people believe their emotional reactions to legal filings mean they are objectively correct about what the outcome should be. For instance, just because you get a nice raise doesn’t mean there isn’t wage discrimination as a legal matter. The fact you cited means very, very little.

Like I said: I’d say the same thing if people were taking the facts in the plaintiff‘s filing as objective truth. But that’s not happening here because GAF in the aggregate has a strong bias against discrimination accusations and lawsuits.
What legal standing exactly is there to say 2 people should be paid exactly the same amount of money working for any corporation? Of course laws are different in each country, but I've worked in corporate for a long long time and managed plenty of people. Rarely have I ever had 2 workers earning exactly the same money for similar roles. Even bonuses were always tailored person by person.

And I definitely had situations in which I was managing people earning more than me (thankfully not for long).
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Skimming through the lawsuit it does say the position he had and that she was at the company longer:



However, it makes no mention to his previous job or previous experience and assumes to know it. As you said before, companies will buy out a person from another company just to have that person on their team. More so, because there is no mention of his previous work, we don't know if he was already making that or more where he was working before. No mention of that. Not only that, but going through it, in the time she went from 85K to 115K, the guy never got a raise at all, which tells me he was making 127k at his previous job and wouldn't take this job if he didn't get the same. Negotiation.

It continues on with things like this



Alright then, go look for another job, find an interview where you get far into it and they are willing to pay more, take that to your bosses and tell them if they don't pay you more with everything you've done, you're out the door. If they still don't care, fuck'em, you found a better job anyway. My wife has done this and got her company to double her salary for it.

It also says things like

But form clubs of their own without making mention that they even tried to be "mentored" by the men. In fact reading through it sounds like they segregate themselves UNTIL someone sends them an invitation.

There are only 20 women in the lawsuit, but 800 employees in the entire company. I highly doubt they are doing this "for the women of the company". Also may explain why they feel the need to separate women and women of color.

That being said, I wouldn't doubt their wolfpack were the only ones who participated in the survey they sent to the higher ups with the complaints as the lawsuit doesn't say a majority of female employees agreed with the statement. Just that they signed a survey among women.
Exactly.

You never know. Maybe the guy who makes more took the job as a demotion. But if the company wants him pay up. Maybe that was the plan. He's actually a more skilled person than first thought, but they started him low but he will move up the ranks fast.

It can also happen internally too.

I know people who changed roles internally for a totally different role in a different department for sake of improving skills or wanting something different. The person transitioning will ALWAYS keep their existing pay and perks. They will never say.... "Hey, if you want to change from a sales rep to marketing, we're going to cut your pay $15,000, cut your bonus % in half and take away your car allowance". The person will keep it all. I have never known someone who got their comp reduced in situations like this.
 

tkscz

Member
Exactly.

You never know. Maybe the guy who makes more took the job as a demotion. But if the company wants him pay up. Maybe that was the plan. He's actually a more skilled person than first thought, but they started him low but he will move up the ranks fast.

It can also happen internally too.

I know people who changed roles internally for a totally different role in a different department for sake of improving skills or wanting something different. The person transitioning will ALWAYS keep their existing pay and perks. They will never say.... "Hey, if you want to change from a sales rep to marketing, we're going to cut your pay $15,000, cut your bonus % in half and take away your car allowance". The person will keep it all. I have never known someone who got their comp reduced in situations like this.
Literally what my wife just did and what I'm about to do (Virtual/Systems engineer).
 
What legal standing exactly is there to say 2 people should be paid exactly the same amount of money working for any corporation? Of course laws are different in each country, but I've worked in corporate for a long long time and managed plenty of people. Rarely have I ever had 2 workers earning exactly the same money for similar roles. Even bonuses were always tailored person by person.

And I definitely had situations in which I was managing people earning more than me (thankfully not for long).
Again I’m not a labor attorney, but it’s long-standing law that you aren’t allowed to discriminate in wages based on a large variety of protected classes (sex, race, and being old among them). If the facts indicate this is happening then you’re liable to lose the lawsuit.

This doesn’t mean you have pay everyone the same. It’s a facts and circumstances based inquiry and you can present your own reasons for why a pay disparity exists.
 
H
Again I’m not a labor attorney, but it’s long-standing law that you aren’t allowed to discriminate in wages based on a large variety of protected classes (sex, race, and being old among them). If the facts indicate this is happening then you’re liable to lose the lawsuit.

This doesn’t mean you have pay everyone the same. It’s a facts and circumstances based inquiry and you can present your own reasons for why a pay disparity exists.
In other Words you cant make a case of this, just claim something is ilegal and thats it

Thats why i say before, she cant make this case unless she was the only women Who Dont have a Raise, and that Dont happen
 
Again I’m not a labor attorney, but it’s long-standing law that you aren’t allowed to discriminate in wages based on a large variety of protected classes (sex, race, and being old among them). If the facts indicate this is happening then you’re liable to lose the lawsuit.

This doesn’t mean you have pay everyone the same. It’s a facts and circumstances based inquiry and you can present your own reasons for why a pay disparity exists.
someone that self admittedly increased their salary by what, about 50% in 3 years was discriminated? lol
extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and as it was said above, most people here are skeptical of this claim because they have work experience where this is absolutely a common thing, nothing to do with any of the above mentioned factors.
 
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