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Pokemon Gold / Silver for DS announced

RagnarokX

Member
Sep 16, 2006
22,546
3
1,065
Eteric Rice said:
Do people even use Hidden Power? lol
Of course! But getting a hidden power of the right type that's powerful enough takes a level of dedication that's way beyond me :p
 

Firestorm

Member
Feb 2, 2006
33,832
0
0
Vancouver, BC
nuggetbridge.com
Eteric Rice said:
Do people even use Hidden Power? lol
Yeah if they absolutely need a type of attack on a Pokemon that they can't get. Just remember that a super-effective Hidden Power isn't always better than your base attack.

For example, let's say you have a Squirtle vs Pikachu.
Surf: 95 base power x 1.5 same type attack bonus (STAB) = 142.5
Hidden Power Ground (70): 70 x 2 super effective = 140

Surf is the better move here. So it's really only for types you'd be not very effective against and absolutely require a more powerful move for.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Jan 13, 2007
16,609
158
1,205
Firestorm said:
Yeah if they absolutely need a type of attack on a Pokemon that they can't get. Just remember that a super-effective Hidden Power isn't always better than your base attack.

For example, let's say you have a Squirtle vs Pikachu.
Surf: 95 base power x 1.5 same type attack bonus (STAB) = 142.5
Hidden Power Ground (70): 70 x 2 super effective = 140

Surf is the better move here. So it's really only for types you'd be not very effective against and absolutely require a more powerful move for.
So some people breed a Pokemon for use of a strong Hidden Power?
 

effingvic

Member
May 7, 2008
27,614
0
850
The Team Builder is an excellent tool to create a nice and well rounded team.

http://pokemon.marriland.com/diamond_pearl/team_builder/

It made me realize how one Pokemon can destroy my team if I wasn't careful with type coverage and such.

Eteric Rice said:
So some people breed a Pokemon for use of a strong Hidden Power?
Yep. Having a strong HP move is like having a really strong move for a type that you normally won't be able to learn. For example, Vaporeon would really benefit from HP Electric. It's a great way to piss off Gyarados users, since you can block it's water attacks with Vaporeon's Water Absorb ability, and then kill it off with HP Electric. Gyarados takes 4x damage from that.

It's a pain in the ass, so do it only if you're trying to be the very best, like no one ever was.
 
Aug 25, 2007
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Eteric Rice said:
Do people even use Hidden Power? lol
Most Electric types are worthless against Ground types without Hidden Power. A good number of other Pokemon like having it to round out a moveset or to hit specific threats (e.g. Celebi nailing Scizor with HP Fire)
 
Oct 14, 2006
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Eteric Rice said:
So some people breed a Pokemon for use of a strong Hidden Power?
In practice, breeding for a specific IV spread (which is what Hidden Power is based on) is a crap shoot and may take weeks to get right. People talk about it, because it's theoretically possible (as is deliberately getting a shiny starter via soft resets), but it's usually relegated to the realm of theory and online simulators rather than in-game.
VOOK said:
How about a team of Unown's that spell out rude words? That would be an intresting team.
I made one of them in Leaf Green for the lulz. They got creamed against in-game trainers and lulz were had.
 

Gruco

Banned
Jun 10, 2004
5,250
1
0
To put it another way, Hidder Power offers the chance to exploit extreme random number generation abuse as a means to circumvent the type-driven balance built into the game.
 
Oct 14, 2006
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Amibguous Cad said:
Simulators let players field fantasy teams against each other.
Fixed. Because let's face it, you can be a genius who can devise the greatest strategies ever, but if you're not patient enough to put in the hard yards in-game, it doesn't count. The randomness factor of everybody having "imperfect" teams are a big part of what makes the battle system so great. It's also part of the charm of Hidden Power - it's meant to be completely random.

Another thing that makes breeding for Hidden Power difficult is the fact that IVs are set the moment you pick up the egg from the Day Care Center (or sooner? Someone clarify this point, please).
 

Jel0man

Junior Member
Feb 17, 2007
981
0
0
Some guy on a Japanese board posted the following:

とりあえず文字だけで
発売日は9月11日(金)予約開始は7月20日(映画と同じ日?)かららしい
コロコロについてる券を使うと変なカードケースみたいのが貰える (Friday September 11 release date?)

メイカー希望小売価格は4800円(税抜き (Suggested retail price: 4800 yen)

映画前売りピチューは金銀に送るとギザ耳になる
更にピカチュウにまで進化させると何かが起こるらしい\

あとはジョウトのタウンマップみたいなの
カントーはポケモンリーグへの道まで書いてある (Kanto/Pokemon League area is visible on the Johto map?)

あと今回はwifi周りが強化されるらしい
自転車とスケボーを使い分けられる
それ以外は映画情報とかアルセの秘密とかの分かり切った内容でした
俺はうpできないと思うけど夜になったら他の方がうpできると思います (Bicycle, skateboard, wifi?)
 

TP

Member
Feb 4, 2008
2,411
0
0
Post 844, does this guy have corocoro? He hasn't posted pictures yet, so take this with a grain of salt.

とりあえず文字だけで
発売日は9月11日(金)予約開始は7月20日(映画と同じ日?)かららしい
コロコロについてる券を使うと変なカードケースみたいのが貰える (Friday September 11 release date?)

メイカー希望小売価格は4800円(税抜き (Suggested retail price: 4800 yen)

映画前売りピチューは金銀に送るとギザ耳になる
更にピカチュウにまで進化させると何かが起こるらしい\

あとはジョウトのタウンマップみたいなの
カントーはポケモンリーグへの道まで書いてある (Kanto/Pokemon League area is visible on the Johto map?)

あと今回はwifi周りが強化されるらしい
自転車とスケボーを使い分けられる
それ以外は映画情報とかアルセの秘密とかの分かり切った内容でした
俺はうpできないと思うけど夜になったら他の方がうpできると思います (Bicycle, skateboard, wifi?)
September 11 just seems too soon, and a Skateboard?
 

Jel0man

Junior Member
Feb 17, 2007
981
0
0
Jeo said:
September 11 just seems too soon, and a Skateboard?
Yeah apparently they wanted to let the players use a skateboard in the original Pokemon Gold and Silver, but the feature didn't make the cut. But right now I'm just posting it for the sake of it, until this guy is posting pictures...
 

Jiggy

Member
Sep 10, 2005
12,563
0
0
Gruco said:
Honestly, the EV limitations still kind of bother me. Personality, EV limitations and abilities all being added at once was too dramatic of a shift, and had some pretty negative consequences to playing style (compartmentalizing everything into pure physical or special). At the very least, adding all of this mostly served to widen the gap between a realistic in-game team and an optimized multiplayer team. Once Gamefreak decided to give EV training a personalities as a means to customize stats, IV had no further vaue and should have been eliminated. Throw out Hidden Power with it; that nonsense has been mucking things up since GSC.
EVs bother me, but for a different reason. Many Pokemon can still be mixed attackers just fine with the EV limitations, mostly because the enemy Pokemon now can't max all three defensive stats. Electivire, Dragonite, Salamence, Kingdra, Tyranitar, Metagross, Infernape, Blaziken, Lucario, Arcanine, Swampert... all viable mixed attackers.

But what bothers me is how much more difficult it is to play defense now (because of the inability to max all three), or to survive even a single strong hit if you're a dedicated but fragile attacker like Gengar or Azelf. Nobody wants a G/S/C-style stallfest, I'm sure, but in the first two generations it was very difficult to OHKO something without a quad-weakness in play, and I think the games were better in that regard (and only that regard). It cheapens the experience to me to see a clean OHKO on a full health Pokemon with a neutral hit just because things like Choice Band, Life Orb, Draco Meteor, Flash Fire, and Download are now around to improve offense while defense hasn't gotten anything notable in the past two generations except Calm Mind and Light Clay. Edit: And Roost. Can't neglect Roost.



Teknoman said:
Wasnt a skateboard rumored to be a bike replacement in G/S waaay before the original version were released?
I don't think it was a rumor, but something actually planned. Even in the G/S manga, Gold uses a skateboard.
 

PataHikari

Banned
Aug 16, 2007
4,533
3
0
Hold items that increase a Pokemon's defense would be good. Make defensive equivalents to the Choice items. More Pokemon could learn defensive moves and abilities. I imagine that something like that will come up next generation.

Also, for the love of all that's good and holy nerf Stealth Rock.
 

Black-Wind

Member
May 17, 2008
10,847
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0
exavierford.weebly.com
I will wait for the scans.

And plus, I want to hear more about this trate breeding thing that Wii Will Rock U was talking about. (or atleast I hope he was correct in thinking that Coro would talk about it.)
 

Jel0man

Junior Member
Feb 17, 2007
981
0
0
Firestorm said:
Don't link to 2ch on GAF.

September 11th is a Friday. Also seems like a stupid day to release a game even in Japan. Then again, Call of Duty World At War was released on Remembrance Day...
Thanks. Removed the link (though someone still quoted me:p).
 

Sciz

Member
Oct 9, 2007
11,041
0
920
viciouskillersquirrel said:
OH GOD IT'S 1998 ALL OVER AGAIN!!!1!
No kidding. Younger me was so disappointed when the skateboard never actually appeared anywhere in the final game, despite Nintendo themselves saying it would be there.
 

TP

Member
Feb 4, 2008
2,411
0
0
PseudoKirby said:
how is it too soon? its a remake in Diamond and pearl graphics.. they shouldn't have much work to do..
I'm used to waiting 9+ months after a games announcement for the release
The sooner the better though
 
Aug 25, 2007
7,781
0
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viciouskillersquirrel said:
Another thing that makes breeding for Hidden Power difficult is the fact that IVs are set the moment you pick up the egg from the Day Care Center (or sooner? Someone clarify this point, please).
Yep. Nature/ability/gender/shinyness are all set when the guy steps out though.

Tbh though, Hidden Power breeding could always be finished in a week or two if you knew what you're doing and your standards weren't too high.

Now in the era of RNG abuse, you don't have to accept lower standards and the timeframe can probably be knocked down to a day or two. :D
 

Balb

Member
Dec 14, 2007
6,487
0
760
Eteric Rice said:
Can someone explain how Hidden Power actually works, please?
Hidden power is a move that's completely based on the Pokemon's IVs (I assume you know what IVs are. If you don't I can explain that in more detail in a later post). The type and power of the move relies on the IVs of the Pokemon, with 70 being the maximum base power.
 

Jiggy

Member
Sep 10, 2005
12,563
0
0
PataHikari said:
Hold items that increase a Pokemon's defense would be good. Make defensive equivalents to the Choice items. More Pokemon could learn defensive moves and abilities. I imagine that something like that will come up next generation.
Yeah, I sure hope so. Maybe a Choice Armor that allows two moves (which a defensive Pokemon is probably going to need, really) but raises Defense by 25%. Or a Life Orb variant that still drains HP for attacking moves that connect, but instead of increasing offense it restores HP for various defensive moves that aren't stat boosts (or else Dragon Dance Gyarados and whatnot could abuse it too), Protect/Detect, or Leech Seed. And maybe not Roar/Whirlwind either.

Or even an item which, for one turn per switch-in, gives full-on priority to a non-attacking move like Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, or Recover.


Also, for the love of all that's good and holy nerf Stealth Rock.
It should need to be used twice before it gains the ability to hit on advantages, like with Toxic Spikes needing two uses before it can inflict Toxic. If it's going to stay at one use, then either it should break after it's done 50-75% of damage or a very common move like Surf should wash it away. Rapid Spin sure isn't cutting it.
 
Oct 14, 2006
18,101
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1,155
Eteric Rice said:
Can someone explain how Hidden Power actually works, please?
There's a technical explanation, but the basic one is that Hidden Power is a move with a random type (as in elemental type) and attack power. Both type and attack power are different for each monster and are based on the monster's IVs (which are set at conception).

There's a formula for it, but the end result is that you can teach it to (say) a Raichu, it'll use it and it'll have the same effect as say a 60 power flying-type move or a 70 power dragon-type move etc. The point is that it's random for each monster and based on IVs.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Mar 6, 2007
13,310
0
0
Northern Ireland
www.forwarduntodawn.com
CoroCoro Info Summary

-Release date 11th Sept
-Preorders start on July 20th, same date as new movie, speculative preorder movie cross promotion
-From the Johto map, Kanto is hinted at
-Wifi Features Expanded
-Skateboard

That appears to be it, few screenshots, coming shortly, featuring New Bark Town and Johto Area Map
 

MindCollizion

Member
Mar 11, 2006
2,808
14
995
Davis, CA
Dani said:
CoroCoro Info Summary

-Release date 11th Sept
-Preorders start on July 20th, same date as new movie, speculative preorder movie cross promotion
-From the Johto map, Kanto is hinted at
-Wifi Features Expanded
-Skateboard

That appears to be it, few screenshots, coming shortly, featuring New Bark Town and Johto Area Map
Does that mean... November 22 in NA?
 

TP

Member
Feb 4, 2008
2,411
0
0
CoroCoro Info Summary

-Release date 11th Sept
-Preorders start on July 20th, same date as new movie, speculative preorder movie cross promotion
-From the Johto map, Kanto is hinted at
-Wifi Features Expanded
-Skateboard

That appears to be it, few screenshots, coming shortly, featuring New Bark Town and Johto Area Map
So the date is real, fantastic. I guess here is a good place to ask
How soon can I expect an English guide from the Japanese release? I want to import but I don't know any Japanese. How do the rest of you get through the game without knowing Japanese? Do you wing it? The games will probably make it over here by November but I don't feel like waiting
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Mar 6, 2007
13,310
0
0
Northern Ireland
www.forwarduntodawn.com
Jeo said:
So the date is real, fantastic. I guess here is a good place to ask
How soon can I expect an English guide from the Japanese release? I want to import but I don't know any Japanese. How do the rest of you get through the game without knowing Japanese? Do you wing it? The games will probably make it over here by November but I don't feel like waiting
English guide takes as long as it takes for someone to play through and report back. There will be no guide for months, you'll need to follow forum posts or get help from native speakers otherwise you'll come across sections in the game where you need to go some place exact, talk to someone specifically or something you'd need to read about to pick up or spend a few hours wandering around talking to everyone or going through many menu options and or dialogue trees.

I thought Pokemon games took like half a year to come out in the states after release rather than a few months.
 

Mik2121

Member
Sep 15, 2005
14,830
0
0
Osaka, Japan
mik2121.com
Dani said:
English guide takes as long as it takes for someone to play through and report back. There will be no guide for months, you'll need to follow forum posts or get help from native speakers otherwise you'll come across sections in the game where you need to go some place exact, talk to someone specifically or something you'd need to read about to pick up or spend a few hours wandering around talking to everyone or going through many menu options and or dialogue trees.

I thought Pokemon games took like half a year to come out in the states after release rather than a few months.
Or not. If it's a remake of Gold/Silver, it means most of the tasks will be the same as the old GS games, so it shouldn't take that long. Maybe a month at most.

And even then, the Japanese in the Pokemon games is damn easy, so people could translate as they play and have it make perfect sense.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Mar 6, 2007
13,310
0
0
Northern Ireland
www.forwarduntodawn.com
Mik2121 said:
Or not. If it's a remake of Gold/Silver, it means most of the tasks will be the same as the old GS games, so it shouldn't take that long. Maybe a month at most.

And even then, the Japanese in the Pokemon games is damn easy, so people could translate as they play and have it make perfect sense.
Wasn't Leaf Green etc suitable differant from the originals to make guides based off the older version almost useless? I can't recall.

The Japanese is simple enough and you'll find folks helping each other out. But a "completed" guide to just the story will take a while and then all the post story content will take longer.

I have about 600 hours from Gold.Silver/Ruby in Japanese before the American versions came out to remember all the trial and error and hunting down info from the net to figure stuff out. I think you are correct, the fact that they are remakes should streamline the process.