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[Emarv]

I definitely believe a lot of the incriminating stuff exists on Trump. I was just saying that I think we should temper expectations that Mueller already has it or may get it between now and the investigation's conclusion.

 

[JP_]

Just because they're going to try to strong arm everyone doesn't mean they will succeed in strong arming everyone.

They were one vote away last time and mccain seems a go because his governor backs it. Have any previous yeses turned into nos?

 

[Kevinroc]

They were one vote away last time and mccain seems a go because his governor backs it. Have any previous yeses turned into nos?

Missed this, I take it.

https://twitter.com/thomaskaplan/status/909879038046588930

McCain on Graham-Cassidy: "I'm not interested in only having an up-or-down vote on what's one-fifth of the gross national product."

McCain on Sept. 30 repeal deadline: "That's not my problem that we only have those few days left. What were we doing the last nine months?"

 

[Aaron Strife]

They were one vote away last time and mccain seems a go because his governor backs it. Have any previous yeses turned into nos?

McCain dug his heels in deeper after Ducey endorsed the bill.

Plus you get Nos from guys like Paul who just want ACA repealed and nothing more.

Not saying its death is guaranteed, but it's far from a foregone conclusion.

 

[Kevinroc]

This "It's Graham-Cassidy or nothing" deal should piss McCain off something fierce going by this story Politico posted this afternoon.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/18/john-mccain-obamacare-repeal-vote-242853

And while Republicans look for a path to push through Obamacare repeal with 50 votes rather than the 60 typically needed in the Senate, McCain said he continues to favor working across the aisle on health care.

"It's not so much 60 votes that I care about," McCain said. "It's a bipartisan approach to the issue — that's what I mostly care about."

Are they just completely writing McCain off or something? Do they think they can get Collins or Murkowski?

 

[B-Dubs]

This "It's Graham-Cassidy or nothing" deal should piss McCain off something fierce going by this story Politico posted this afternoon.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/18/john-mccain-obamacare-repeal-vote-242853



Are they just completely writing McCain off or something? Do they think they can get Collins or Murkowski?

They don't have a choice. If they don't do it now it won't happen, unless they manage to hang on to majorities in the House and Senate after the midterms. They wouldn't dare risk a year's worth of debate on a bill like this, especially not if that debate would end a month and a half before an election.

 

[BoboBrazil]

I think this push by republicans will pass. It's not getting the heat on it like before and they will try to push this through much quicker without a cbo rating.

 

[Kevinroc]

They don't have a choice. If they don't do it now it won't happen, unless they manage to hang on to majorities in the House and Senate after the midterms. They wouldn't dare risk a year's worth of debate on a bill like this, especially not if that debate would end a month and a half before an election.

This is just absolutely insane. And I'm someone who fully understands that the Republican Party is completely depraved.

Yet I can't completely deny that they might actually be able to pull this off.

 

[timetokill]

I feel like today's Breitbart "TRUMP VINDICATED! OBAMA TAPPED THAT" headline is like the tenth I've seen from them, and I laugh every time

 

[Zolo]

I'm gonna guess Murkowski and Collins are still firm 'no's, so it'll probably come down to McCain again.

 

[Pixieking]

McCain warned against rushing ahead. ”We just need to have a regular process rather than, ‘Hey I've got an idea, let's run this through the Senate and give them an up-or-down vote,' " he said.

Murkowski said she was trying to learn more about the proposal's impact on Alaska and consulting with her governor. On her way to McConnell's office Monday afternoon, she wouldn't say whether she was leaning for or against the bill.

Collins, who is seen by many Republicans as the strongest opponent of replacing the ACA, said Monday that she worries that millions could lose coverage under the new plan.

Adding to the challenge for Republican leaders: Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Monday that he is a firm no at this point.

”I think this is a game," Paul said. ”I think this is a game of Republicans taking money from Democratic states. What happens if Democrats take power back?"

New push to replace Obamacare reflects high stakes for Republicans

The problem is that, aside from Murkowski and Collins in this situation, the GOP puts party before all-else. Ethics, morality, principals, country, none of them matter. So what any of them say now is irrelevant. It all may have changed in 2 hours time, and for no policy reason at all.

I do think Paul is thinking ahead here, though. It shows more intelligence to query what would happen if/when the Dems are in power, and to step-carefully, than to just flip-flop mindlessly.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I think this push by republicans will pass. It's not getting the heat on it like before and they will try to push this through much quicker without a cbo rating.

what's changed

 

[eBay Huckster]

I'm gonna guess Murkowski and Collins are still firm 'no's, so it'll probably come down to McCain again.

yeah, Murkowski ("consulting with her governor", who if y'all recall explicitly ran on a unity ticket against the Republican Parnell 3 years ago) and Collins ("strongest GOP opponent of replacing the ACA") ain't changing their votes

their best shot is McCain, and they're blowing it by doing the same shit they tried to pull with the BCRA

 

[Aaron Strife]

New push to replace Obamacare reflects high stakes for Republicans

The problem is that, aside from Murkowski and Collins in this situation, the GOP puts party before all-else. Ethics, morality, principals, country, none of them matter. So what any of them say now is irrelevant. It all may have changed in 2 hours time, and for no policy reason at all.

I do think Paul is thinking ahead here, though. It shows more intelligence to query what would happen if/when the Dems are in power, and to step-carefully, than to just flip-flop mindlessly.

Paul's in a pretty good position to do that - he's not up for re-election for another five years, and his approval ratings (while not great) are much better than McConnell's. He also has actual credibility with the Tea Party and no one genuinely likes the replacement plan, so he'll have a good argument in case he does get a further right primary challenger in 2022.

The block granting thing is stupid, not only from a moral perspective but from a political one, like he points out. There are plenty of Republicans in blue states whose careers would be over if this happened. Not to mention states that did flip for Trump can flip right back and then some red states on top of that (e.g. GA/TX/AZ). What, do they think Michigan is Safe R now? Just like how Indiana was for Obama after 2008?

 

[Basileus777]

their best shot is McCain, and they're blowing it by doing the same shit they tried to pull with the BCRA

Well this time they don't actually have a choice. They have a window of a few days to ram this through, they don't have time to do more than a straight vote.

 

[Kevitivity]

Pee pee tape has to be real. Why does Trump go to great lengths to defend Putin? He knows.

Besides, didnt CNN basically confirm it's existence a few months ago?

No one has confirmed the Pee pee tape. That's because it doesn't exist.

 

[B-Dubs]

Paul's in a pretty good position to do that - he's not up for re-election for another five years, and his approval ratings (while not great) are much better than McConnell's. He also has actual credibility with the Tea Party and no one genuinely likes the replacement plan, so he'll have a good argument in case he does get a further right primary challenger in 2022.

The block granting thing is stupid, not only from a moral perspective but from a political one, like he points out. There are plenty of Republicans in blue states whose careers would be over if this happened. Not to mention states that did flip for Trump can flip right back and then some red states on top of that (e.g. GA/TX/AZ). What, do they think Michigan is Safe R now? Just like how Indiana was for Obama after 2008?

Paul is 100% going to vote for it. He just talks like he won't so people pay attention to him.

 

[thepotatoman]

They don't have a choice. If they don't do it now it won't happen, unless they manage to hang on to majorities in the House and Senate after the midterms. They wouldn't dare risk a year's worth of debate on a bill like this, especially not if that debate would end a month and a half before an election.

Murkowski and Collins are both in until 2020 right? So republicans even just losing one seat will make it impossible.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Well this time they don't actually have a choice. They have a window of a few days to ram this through, they don't have time to do more than a straight vote.

that's the beauty of it: assuming mccain holds firm on his obsession with "regular order", they can't actually sway any of the three no votes from the last go-round, which means they're doomed to a ceiling of 49 (provided people keep up pressure)

 

[wutwutwut]

... when can they start pushing reconciliation for the next fiscal year?

 

[StopMakingSense]

... when can they start pushing reconciliation for the next fiscal year?

They won't do this in 2018.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

What state does everyone here live in?

 

[SexyFish]

What state does everyone here live in?

Denial.

 

[Vimes]

What state does everyone here live in?

Disbelief.

Spoiler

CA

 

[Officerrob]

What state does everyone here live in?

Virginia

 

[Beer Monkey]

What state does everyone here live in?

The deep state.

 

[pigeon]

What state does everyone here live in?

The state is a legalized fiction with no existence beyond our joint willingness to subsidize violence in support of social goods

 

[thepotatoman]

... when can they start pushing reconciliation for the next fiscal year?

After they pass a budget outline with reconciliation instructions. This time the instructions will be tax reform, while the last one was to repeal obamacare. Only 50 votes required in senate for it.

Nothing goes into effect with it passing, just sets the outline for the real reconciliation bill.

https://budget.house.gov/budgets/fy18/

Our budget provides reconciliation instructions to promote the type of pro-growth tax reform that would boost economic growth and unleash the power of the American entrepreneurial spirit. These aims can be achieved through deficit-neutral, fundamental tax reform that:

• Simplifies the tax code to make it fairer to American families and businesses and reduces the amount of time and resources necessary to comply with tax laws;
  
• Lowers tax rates for individuals and consolidates the current seven individual income tax brackets;
  
• Repeals the Alternative Minimum Tax;
  
• Reduces the corporate tax rate; and
  
• Transitions the tax code from a ”worldwide" system to a ”territorial" system.

Congress should consider these and the full range of pro-growth plans as it moves toward implementing the tax reform called for in this budget.

So far it's only been introduced in the house.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/71/actions

 

[PBY]

This "It's Graham-Cassidy or nothing" deal should piss McCain off something fierce going by this story Politico posted this afternoon.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/18/john-mccain-obamacare-repeal-vote-242853



Are they just completely writing McCain off or something? Do they think they can get Collins or Murkowski?

Why are we pretending that McCain is bound by anything he said in the past or that he will have any sort of moral compass here? We can't be that naive.

 

[Barzul]

If they do end up passing this. Democrats absolutely should not score UHC or a public option. Just pass it and worry about the cost later. GOP has provided the precedent.

 

[Poodlestrike]

The state is a legalized fiction with no existence beyond our joint willingness to subsidize violence in support of social goods

Some say the ghost of Benji haunts us to this very day.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Why are we pretending that McCain is bound by anything he said in the past or that he will have any sort of moral compass here? We can't be that naive.

He's a dying man worried about preserving his legacy as a "maverick"

 

[Wilsongt]

I'm listening to Hillary's interview on NPR's fresh air and all I have to say is fuck the haters on GAF fuck the mainstream media and fuck Trump I still love queen Hillary

 

[Diablos]

What state does everyone here live in?

The solid state

 

[PBY]

He's a dying man worried about preserving his legacy as a "maverick"

This is just your imaginary idealized version of what he cares about. We have no idea what he thinks.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This is just your imaginary idealized version of what he cares about. We have no idea what he thinks.

He's already made a huge vote that shows this is what he cares about

Why would he make the vote a month and a half ago, only to go back now?

 

[Blader]

“I think this is a game,” Paul said. “I think this is a game of Republicans taking money from Democratic states. What happens if Democrats take power back?”

Weird that Rand Paul, of all people, is the only Republican all year to say this.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

I think we are overdue for some Oppo Droppos this week

 

[tbm24]

I think we are overdue for some Oppo Droppos this week

Last night already warranted a smoke afterwards, not sure how much I can handle if more on that level drops right away.

 

[Ernest]

I'm listening to Hillary's interview on NPR's fresh air and all I have to say is fuck the haters on GAF fuck the mainstream media and fuck Trump I still love queen Hillary

Yeah, totally!

Here's the interview, I'd recommend listening to it instead of reading it. A lot of righteous indignation, deservedly so!

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

Yeah, totally!

Here's the interview, I'd recommend listening to it instead of reading it. A lot of righteous indignation, deservedly so!

Didn't she question the validity of the election? I don't remember where I read it, but if you know can you shoot a link>

 

[Mark Andrew]

Didn't she question the validity of the election? I don't remember where I read it, but if you know can you shoot a link>

I think it was a separate interview where she was asked a fairly leading question. But yeah, I wasn’t entirely comfortable with her answer.

 

[Pyrokai]

Didn't she question the validity of the election? I don't remember where I read it, but if you know can you shoot a link>

Never mind. I'm not sure if I remember correctly.

 

[Y2Kev]

Why are we pretending that McCain is bound by anything he said in the past or that he will have any sort of moral compass here? We can't be that naive.

While I agree he's a shithead, supposing he's bound by things he's said in the past makes a lot more sense than freaking out over potential nothings.

 

[xfactor99]

This is just your imaginary idealized version of what he cares about. We have no idea what he thinks.

This is how McCain works:

The basic way to understand McCain is that neoconservative foreign policy is his ideological core. Everything else about his ideology can shift radically depending on his ambitions, circumstances, and whom he’s most angry with at any given moment. He favored immigration reform under George W. Bush, abandoned it to refashion himself as a “build the dang fence” border hawk, and, in the wake of last November, embraced it again. He fashioned himself as a modern Teddy Roosevelt environmentalist crusader during his anti-Bush phase, sponsored a cap and trade bill, but decided to run as a “drill here, drill now” conservative in 2008, abandoning his own cap and trade plan once Obama tried to pass it.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/05/why-john-mccain-hates-republicans-again.html

Right now he seems to despise Trump, so he is concocting nonsense reasons such as the importance of 'regular order' in order to oppose the Republican healthcare efforts. But I do expect he'll continue to be a thorn in McConnell's side until he passes away.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

$700 billion to the military. Think of what $50 billion of that alone could do for Education or Health Care or any of a 100 different things.

This country is fucked.

 

[Mark Andrew]

$700 billion to the military. Think of what $50 billion of that alone could do for Education or Health Care or any of a 100 different things.

This country is fucked.

Gotta fund those parades.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

$700 billion to the military. Think of what $50 billion of that alone could do for Education or Health Care or any of a 100 different things.

This country is fucked.

we should push universal health care and education under the military..

we say it provides free education and healthcare to advance and strengthen our military.

we just dont talk about the part that says all americans. BAM.

 

[PBY]

While I agree he's a shithead, supposing he's bound by things he's said in the past makes a lot more sense than freaking out over potential nothings.

But ... he's also said conflicting things, including looking to his governor so....

 

[balladofwindfishes]

But ... he's also said conflicting things, including looking to his governor so....

After the governor came out for it, McCain came out even more against it