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PoliGAF After Party Thread of Harsh Realities

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grandjedi6 said:
Says the man who mocks others for voting 3rd party
I'll vote democrat unless the democrat is a incompetent fool or a crook like Blago. Of course I'd vote third party then! What should I vote for? The Republican? Look, I am not a moderate, I am not an independent. I am not going to try and act like there is ever a chance in hell of me voting Republican, because there isn't. As long as they are the conservative leaning party.

I don't get why you expect me to vote for "whoever will do the job best". I am a fairly partisan Democrat and the fact I constantly mocked McCain/Palin and actively took part in the last two democratic primaries should signal this. Look I think Senator Dick Lugar is a extremely smart guy, a great senator and does a fantastic job and is a Republican. But I'd never vote for the guy.
 
grandjedi6 said:
Since you love her so much perhaps you can try and answer my question Cheebs: Why should Caroline become a Senator besides her being a Kennedy?
well if you are referring to experience blarrrrgh there is a point where someone needs experience for a job and where someone needs to receive experience from a job
 
mamacint said:
In a world where Chris Matthews' name is seriously being bandied about for a PE seat, I'm finding it hard to get outraged about CK, though I understand where it's coming from.
To be fair to Chris Matthews before he got on TV he was a politician, and one with a lot more experience than most new senators (He was Carter's speech writer in his two campaigns for president and his 4 years as President and afterward s was the Speak of the House Tip O'Neil's Chief of Staff). He even ran for congress in PA once but lost.
 
grandjedi6 said:
T1.) The governor is suppose to be filling a vacancy, not appointing a Senator for a full term. It's the voters of New York that decide who will be elected for a full term
grandjedi6 said:
Actually I don't mind Caroline at all. But I do dislike political dynasties. It wouldn't be nearly as bad if Caroline's name was being tossed around for any reason other than her name, but she isn't.
1. How is appointing Caroline Kennedy not "filling a vacancy"? Because of her family name and the likelihood of winning the actual election?

2. So, it isn't really about Caroline Kennedy specifically, but just that she is a Kennedy. And other Kennedys have been in politics before.

Do you dislike the politics of the Kennedys? I'm not a fan of most of the male Kennedy clan personally, but their politics are usually spot-on with mine. I doubt she strays far from the family ideology.
 
Lemonz said:
Not a suprise.

:D :D :D :D
time_poy.widec.jpg


http://www.time.com/time/specials/2008/personoftheyear
obama_youth_04.jpg

Epic.
 
Shiggie said:
Love that pic.

Here's something to watch for today:

Minnesota Supremes Hearing Coleman Lawsuit To Stop Vote Count
Another important event today in Minnesota: The Minnesota Supreme Court is hearing arguments at 2 p.m. ET, for a lawsuit filed by the Coleman campaign to stop the review and counting of absentee ballots that were rejected because of clerical errors. These votes are expected to break for Al Franken if they are counted, due to pre-election polling that showed him solidly winning absentee votes overall.
 
Just saw on CNN that OPEC is cutting another 2 million barrels of production per day. But yet oil fail to around 2 dollars more today. Wow.
 
I have a question about the Franken/Coleman situation... is there an actual deadline for the results announcement? This thing has been dragging on for way too long.
 
Bulerias said:
I have a question about the Franken/Coleman situation... is there an actual deadline for the results announcement? This thing has been dragging on for way too long.

nope, though the SoS said he wanted it done by friday, though it looks like itll go into the weekend and maybe early next week depending on how fast they get through the challenges
 
JavyOO7 said:
Just saw on CNN that OPEC is cutting another 2 million barrels of production per day. But yet oil fail to around 2 dollars more today. Wow.

It's almost like it wasn't a supply/demand problem this whole time. Huh.
 
scorcho said:
appoint someone that has a policy track record and actual political experience, not just a name.

From my perspective, "political experience" is bullshit. What exactly does experience in winning elections have to offer here? I really don't understand why just serving in government automatically "qualifies" someone for a Senate seat, regardless of what they did there or what their policy positions are -- pretty much the same way that I didn't consider it relevant whether Obama had "executive experience" during the Presidential campaign. And I don't think that "rewarding" someone for good service in lower rungs of government is inherently any more of a valid use of this seat than handing it to a candidate with high name-recognition.

I think you can assume that any Senator from New York will come down on a fairly consistent left-wing line on most issues, so the real policy qualification question is whether someone can make a useful contribution in one or two specific policy areas of focus -- I think Kennedy's history of involvement with the NYC school district suggests she could be a very effective voice for education reform and funding, and her consistent background working in the arts means she'd be invested in another issue that I consider to be exceptionally important for New York State.

This NYT editorial, for example, argues that her specific achievements in the NPO world, as well as her experience on Obama's VP team, suggest that she will perform well in the environment of the Senate.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, how many people weighing in on this subject live in New York State or have lived there in the past? I'm not looking to say anyone's opinion doesn't count, just curious if my regional perspective is different.
 
Bulerias said:
I have a question about the Franken/Coleman situation... is there an actual deadline for the results announcement? This thing has been dragging on for way too long.

I'm not a Minnesotan but it seems like they are doing their best to be reasonable and fair and do an accurate count. Seems like the correct course is to get it get right rather than do it half ass quick just for the sake of being quick.
 
charlequin said:
From my perspective, "political experience" is bullshit. What exactly does experience in winning elections have to offer here? I really don't understand why just serving in government automatically "qualifies" someone for a Senate seat, regardless of what they did there or what their policy positions are -- pretty much the same way that I didn't consider it relevant whether Obama had "executive experience" during the Presidential campaign. And I don't think that "rewarding" someone for good service in lower rungs of government is inherently any more of a valid use of this seat than handing it to a candidate with high name-recognition.

I think you can assume that any Senator from New York will come down on a fairly consistent left-wing line on most issues, so the real policy qualification question is whether someone can make a useful contribution in one or two specific policy areas of focus -- I think Kennedy's history of involvement with the NYC school district suggests she could be a very effective voice for education reform and funding, and her consistent background working in the arts means she'd be invested in another issue that I consider to be exceptionally important for New York State.

This NYT editorial, for example, argues that her specific achievements in the NPO world, as well as her experience on Obama's VP team, suggest that she will perform well in the environment of the Senate.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, how many people weighing in on this subject live in New York State or have lived there in the past? I'm not looking to say anyone's opinion doesn't count, just curious if my regional perspective is different.

The problem is there are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of people in NY who have the same 'experience' in the NPO (or even moreso) world as Caroline Kennedy yet they'll never be considered simply because their last name isn't Kennedy.
 
Stoney Mason said:
I'm not a Minnesotan but it seems like they are doing their best to be reasonable and fair and do an accurate count. Seems like the correct course is to get it get right rather than do it half ass quick just for the sake of being quick.
You mean they're making a point to be better than Florida?
 
Incognito said:
The problem is there are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of people in NY who have the same 'experience' in the NPO (or even moreso) world as Caroline Kennedy yet they'll never be considered simply because their last name isn't Kennedy.

Well they can cry me a river. There were plenty of people who were more qualified than Hillary Clinton by virtue of actually being from New York State and they didn't get a meaningful shot at the seat after Moynihan retired either.

The Senate is fundamentally an oligarchic body; the long terms and small number of seats have kept it as the US equivalent of the House of Lords, even after the Constitution was changed to allow direct election of Senators. The party institutions push to give its seats to persons of high or rising stature rather than "qualified" people all the time, and it's frequently used as a way for politicians to stay in the public eye or run for President rather than as an end in itself. I really don't see this one specific example of this principle at work to be more galling than those at play constantly throughout the rest of the Senate.
 
charlequin said:
Well they can cry me a river. There were plenty of people who were more qualified than Hillary Clinton by virtue of actually being from New York State and they didn't get a meaningful shot at the seat after Moynihan retired either.

The Senate is fundamentally an oligarchic body; the long terms and small number of seats have kept it as the US equivalent of the House of Lords, even after the Constitution was changed to allow direct election of Senators. The party institutions push to give its seats to persons of high or rising stature rather than "qualified" people all the time, and it's frequently used as a way for politicians to stay in the public eye or run for President rather than as an end in itself. I really don't see this one specific example of this principle at work to be more galling than those at play constantly throughout the rest of the Senate.
This. Though there are some life long truly elected senators they are definitely the minority
 
even more political crack, moreso than even watching live video of a canvassing board

i give you: arguments before a state supreme court dealing whether a canvassing board can request counties sort falsely rejected absentee ballots into a 5th pile.

http://theuptake.org/


(and the video will go back to canvassing board at 2:15 central)
 
Sun Times say that Rahm was all over the tapes
Sneed hears rumbles President-elect Barack Obama's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, is reportedly on 21 different taped conversations by the feds -- dealing with his boss' vacant Senate seat!
I still don't believe Obama did anything wrong, and the tapes will likely prove it. Though all the people refusing to believe his team ever talked to Blago can wake up now.
 
devilhawk said:
Sun Times say that Rahm was all over the tapes

I still don't believe Obama did anything wrong, and the tapes will likely prove it. Though all the people refusing to believe his team ever talked to Blago can wake up now.

Take anything Sneed says with a gigantic lump of salt, he/she was the one that Blago used the entire time to leak things.
 
Tamanon said:
Take anything Sneed says with a gigantic lump of salt, he/she was the one that Blago used the entire time to leak things.
Fair enough, and lol at the he/she part. Though it doesn't mean it is false, just that she is a leak.
 
devilhawk said:
Sun Times say that Rahm was all over the tapes

I still don't believe Obama did anything wrong, and the tapes will likely prove it. Though all the people refusing to believe his team ever talked to Blago can wake up now.
In addition to a grain of salt, the question so be: so? It's pretty normal and expected for those conversations to be taking place. The question is whether Rahm was doing anything wrong, which the prosecutor has already said did not happen. Still, I'm interested to see the full context here.
kkaabboomm said:
even more political crack, moreso than even watching live video of a canvassing board

i give you: arguments before a state supreme court dealing whether a canvassing board can request counties sort falsely rejected absentee ballots into a 5th pile.

http://theuptake.org/

(and the video will go back to canvassing board at 2:15 central)
Thanks.

*taps arm*

Good stuff.
 
devilhawk said:
I still don't believe Obama did anything wrong, and the tapes will likely prove it. Though all the people refusing to believe his team ever talked to Blago can wake up now.

uh, who the hell said his team never talked to Blago? You were arguing that Obama himself met with Blagojevich to discuss his Senate seat. It was always obvious, even before this scandal that Obama's team was pushing Valerie Jarrett for the seat. That is why we were surprised when she was named to his staff instead.
 
The paradox of this scene was that the Obama campaign's communications strategy was predicated in part on an aggressive indifference to this insider set. Staff members were encouraged to ignore new Web sites like The Page, written by Time's Mark Halperin, and Politico, both of which had gained instant cachet among the Washington smarty-pants set. "If Politico and Halperin say we're winning, we're losing," Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, would repeat mantralike around headquarters. He said his least favorite words in the English language were, "I saw someone on cable say this. . . ."

:lol

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/magazine/21Gibbs-t.html?_r=1

That'll win friends!
 
sangreal said:
uh, who the hell said his team never talked to Blago? You were arguing that Obama himself met with Blagojevich to discuss his Senate seat. It was always obvious, even before this scandal that Obama's team was pushing Valerie Jarrett for the seat. That is why we were surprised when she was named to his staff instead.
21 times is a lot. There were probably instances after Valarie had backed off and was chosen for Obama's staff since that happened on the 14th. I wonder who else they talked about if that is the case.
 
Obama unfortunately should have said we had normal contact with Blago instead of no contact. Everybody knows that somebody in contact with Obama would have had contact with Blago about the seat and there is nothing remotely even wrong about that. Instead we are now involved in a semantics games based on a technicality. Silly but that's the media we have.
 
Stoney Mason said:
Obama unfortunately should have said we had normal contact with Blago instead of no contact. Everybody knows that somebody in contact with Obama would have had contact with Blago about the seat and there is nothing remotely even wrong about that. Instead we are now involved in a semantics games based on a technicality. Silly but that's the media we have.
It is semantics to a degree. He said that he (Obama) had no contact, and his staff had no improper contact (which sounds pretty sexy). Implied in the statement is there was contact, just nothing wrong. He would have done better to have made it explicit.
sangreal said:
Illinois Supreme Court refuses to hear motion to declare Blagojevich unfit to serve... Developing...
It was a pretty dumb motion to begin with.
 
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